Now, i'm pretty sure theres no sense in me making that game studio project now. What do you guys thing? Perhaps make a few art packs? hmmmm...

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

Art packs? Yeah, why not.. I've never made a game without using ripped-cloned-copied-premade graphics.

*goes back to working on a kspaceduel clone*

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

quote:

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Originally posted by jestermax:
http://www.stencyl.com
This seems to have everything i wanted to build and much more.

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Wow, that looks pretty promising. It looks like they'll put their example games for download in April, and the full development kit some time this summer. Interestingly, it seems to have Java powered scripting. I would have thought that Mono would have been a slightly better choice. Supposedly, the whole thing is open source. I couldn't find any mention of licensing for commercial use, but it certainly is free for making free games. It uses FMOD under the hood for audio, which is free for free games, but starts at about $3000 to license for a single platform and a single game for commercial usage. Since the engine is open source, you could replace FMOD with something with cheaper/non-existant commercial licensing fees. Apparently FMOD now has a $100 commercial-hobbyist license which would allow you to sell games online.

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|steveth45|
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I WAS using beanscript, which is exact java syntax but it was slow . *sigh* so i had to get used to javascript syntax

However, all that ranting aside, they used java 5, which i don't think had the scripting engine...sooo i guess we haven't gotten anywhere, lol.

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

Seems a good program though, however, could be limiting (due to players seem to need the Client), can you get the source for it? Maybe you could something to allow a .exe or the like to be created, so that it's independent of the Client

Let me know if it can create an executable (even just of sorts). Sort of like how 3GDS can 'publish' the game into a .exe which can be run by the players would be good. I just haven't looked into it enough...

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Junior Programmer www.auran.com
Quality Assurance Lead www.rebelplanetcreations.com

quote:

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Originally posted by dartsman:
Seems a good program though, however, could be limiting (due to players seem to need the Client), can you get the source for it? Maybe you could something to allow a .exe or the like to be created, so that it's independent of the Client

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"Playing games works like it does in real life, just as it should. Choose the game you want to play within the Stencyl Client and press play. It's as easy as choosing a song from a playlist and pressing play."

What's nice is that the client will be available for Linux, OS X, and Windows. I think supporting all three OS's equally is worth the trade off of having to download a client. To play the games, you'll also have to have the latest Java runtime.

"Connect to StencylSpot and browse through the Game listing. Pick the game you want and install it right on the spot with a single click."

It sounds pretty easy for the end user.

Though it doesn't say it, I imagine that they will have a commercial option where they sell your game through "StencylSpot" and give you, the developer, some fraction of that money. I bet one artist and one developer could crank out a decent $5 or $10 game in a month, if this tool does all the things it says that it does.

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|steveth45|
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The project is really supposed to be open source, huh? Interesting. We'll see how it all turns out this summer, I reckon. It could be really cool, but I'm a bit of a skeptic at the moment.

EDIT: As I'm digging further into the website, I'm seeing a lot of copyrighted material. I really should read up on the legality of such things, because there have been times when I could have found some interesting things to do with existing characters. Specifically, there are a lot of copyrighted images (not to mention a plagiarized form of the Wii menu) on this page: http://www.stencyl.com/about/play.html

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Portal with information on my programming projects and links to my other work

[This message has been edited by Xian_Lee (edited March 28, 2007).]

Edit: i just read about the client launcher. It's similar to steam, which basically has a license to print money (resells old games for $20+). I think it's an elegant way to delivery indie games to the end user, even if it does mean that there isn't a "professional" installation process. This doesn't mean i'm gung-ho about the idea, but it's still a very neat idea.

[This message has been edited by jestermax (edited March 28, 2007).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Xian_Lee:
The project is really supposed to be open source, huh? Interesting. We'll see how it all turns out this summer, I reckon. It could be really cool, but I'm a bit of a skeptic at the moment.

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Well, "open source" can mean a lot of things. This looks like a commercial venture, and I imagine the source will come with some heavy usage restrictions, especially regarding commercial usage.

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|steveth45|
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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

quote:

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This seems to have everything i wanted to build and much more. It's VERY similar to Torque with the drag & drop features and theres free Kits to use to make specific games.

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Stencyl looks interesting. Looks like a fun and easy game development tool for making some basic 2D games. Though in the end very different from TGB and the goal of TGB. In many ways it seems to land between GameMaker and TGB, more towards the GM end.

It will probably appeal to a lot of people wanting to step up from GM but aren't comfortable enough with game dev to try other tools (such as TGB). My biggest concern with what they show of the tool is huge limitations, which GM is even worse with. The "Game Builder" seems very specific and targeted towards specific 2D gaming. In the end that eliminates it as a realisitic option for most Indie game devs... though it looks to make creating specific types of games (probably the kits) very easy. In the end TGB is all about not limiting you while giving you ease and efficiency tools that enable to make whatever game however you want to make it. In fact most of the functionality of the picture (guessing a 'platformer' kit) is in our tile editor alone.

In any case it looks like they are trying for a very different thing than TGB, especially with their distribution channel and distribution of the game.

quote:

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What's nice is that the client will be available for Linux, OS X, and Windows. I think supporting all three OS's equally is worth the trade off of having to download a client. To play the games, you'll also have to have the latest Java runtime.

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True, then again all Torque engines support Windows, OS X, and to a lesser extent Linux. I really dislike the client concept, forcing users to go through 'their' distribution channel. That seems to be the catch of it being free and open source. Interesting approach and will be interesting to watch what happens with it, but most Indies don't like being restricted so much... thats usually the reason most Indies are indie in the first place.

Also I'd be worried about the value of games made based on their pre-set kits. It will probably end up killing the value of most games made in it, just like a game made in Game Maker. The easier they make it for people to make 4-5 specific game types (and from the editor it looks like they may be very cookie cutter style) the more games are made using the same aspects, look, and design elements which means huge saturation and lowering of value. Just like the casual marketplace with bubble poppers and card games.

In any case these are the concerns I see. As far as a learning tool and an interesting outlet for people to make quick, easy, and similar games that still can be fun I think it will be interesting. Though that will probably appeal more to the hobbyist than indie developers.

@jestermax: you are probably better off sticking with an art pack, then you could market it to users of all engines

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

1) Distribution. I've been asked this several times already, and there IS a standalone path to take should you desire that. I haven't settled on an exact format for this, but it will be either or both of the following: Java WebStart, .EXE (and the equivalents to those for Linux and OS X).

StencylSpot is just there to provide the instant audience to people who don't have a website or a venue where their works would be seen, and I expect that it will remain the most popular option.

2) Copyright. There's a lot of unaddressed copyright on the site at the moment. We're slowly converting it over to our own stuff and by the 1.0 launch, all of it will be gone. I don't have the artistic resources right now to pursue anything custom. The few artists that I have want to stick to remaking sprites rather than making something entirely original.

3) It's open source under the BSD license once it releases. I have no current plans to go commercial (GarageGames already does that well enough). It's more likely that I'd sell custom games made using this than to actually sell this. An FMOD comment popped up somewhere in there, and I hope to migrate off of FMOD (to either OpenAL or some house-made libraries) in time due to its commercial use restrictions which would turn some people off.

4) Finally, the tricky issue of kits. This really comes down to how well a Kit is designed. A restrictive Kit will lead to a restricted set of games that can be made with a Kit, leading to a "cookie-cutter" effect described above, but a well-planned Kit can go well beyond its original intention. It should also be noted that people will be able to add on custom scripts to Kits in order to add completely new game elements. Yes, that's programming, but that would appeal to the more serious users.

It should also be noted that we have more planned than these 5 initial Kits. People working on the team have expressed interest in branching off these initial Kits, and I myself have an interest in pursuing an RTS Kit in the future.

While Stencyl could be seen as competition to TGB, I see it as a completely different kind of product used by a different audience. That and the fact that one is non-commercial while the other is commercial.

Thanks for your questions and comments. I'll be happy to answer a few more.

Eliwood
Founder and Developer for Stencyl

[This message has been edited by Eliwood914 (edited March 30, 2007).]

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

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Sam Washburn

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

On the flip side, I gain some things that GTGE never had which include the ability to use a particle engine, something I've been eyeing but couldn't do with GTGE due to performance issues. There's also something to be said for actually writing most of the engine myself. That isn't to say that I haven't written much code. The Stencyl code, sans GTGE still weighs in around 40,000 lines.

Stencyl can potentially run in an Applet, but WebStart has supplanted applets these days.

just some q's I have:
* what are some of the more technical aspects of what the engine does?
* what sdk's/libraries did you use?
* will you be creating (or does one exist) a community similar to Ogre? Such as that, more experienced programmers could work on the engine to enhance it, and beginners can use the new features added to enhance their games?
* was this coded in C++?
* how could someone create/add a 'Kit'? and also get it to the community?

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Junior Programmer www.auran.com
Quality Assurance Lead www.rebelplanetcreations.com

What the engine currently does is provide all of the facilities required to make practically any 2D game, so it's a little bit higher level than even a normal game engine because Stencyl adds on a bunch of tools, a flexible file format and other stuff on top of an engine that's friendly to begin with.

2)

GTGE (pending changing to Slick)
LWJGL - OpenGL bindings for Java
FMOD - a popular sound library
Swing (Java's GUI library)

3) That is a plausible model that we are looking at (although replace "engine" with "kits"). Experienced programmers will create Kits either for their own purposes or for others to use. Eventually, I will have a few people working on improving StencylWorks (game builder) and the engine though.

4) Entirely Java.

5) By downloading the Stencyl Development Kit (SDK). This SDK will contain project setups for the most common IDE's, full documentation (both the Javadoc reference and a manual), example Kits and a bare bones base Kit.

In terms of actual work, making a Kit works like this:

1) Gather up resources (graphics, sounds, etc.)
2) Import resources
3) Write up some code to control entities (game objects) and game states
4) Build it and distribute

Kits can be made in days. I got very decent Mega Man kit doing in 4 days that I unleashed as a surprise to my team. I imagine that a good programmer can churn out something decent in days too.

quote:

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Originally posted by dartsman:
nice work

just some q's I have:
1) what are some of the more technical aspects of what the engine does?
2) what sdk's/libraries did you use?
3) will you be creating (or does one exist) a community similar to Ogre? Such as that, more experienced programmers could work on the engine to enhance it, and beginners can use the new features added to enhance their games?
4) was this coded in C++?
5) how could someone create/add a 'Kit'? and also get it to the community?

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[This message has been edited by Eliwood914 (edited March 31, 2007).]

quote:

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While Stencyl could be seen as competition to TGB, I see it as a completely different kind of product used by a different audience. That and the fact that one is non-commercial while the other is commercial.

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I think that is a very good evaluation and hopefully nothing in my post offended you. I think what you are doing is great, and though it's not something I personally have a lot of interest in (other than being a TGB dev so anything similar intrigues me) I know a lot of people that would. Though I don't think this is targeting the indie market of developers as much as TGB I think the project and product itself is very indie and we at GG have always been huge supporters of indie project (thats why we all work at GG).

In any case I wish you the best of luck and definately have respect for what you are doing.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

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Junior Programmer www.auran.com
Quality Assurance Lead www.rebelplanetcreations.com