Game Programming and Development Tools

Community Learning Project – Mene-Mene

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I was looking at some of the community projects and came up with an Idea. Together all learning a language. When we find out something everyone might not have noticed, you post and thus add to the learning experience, n00bs help n00bs in other words. If you already know the language you could still answer some of the question.

I would suggest BM, since I just got the IDE and have no Idea how to work it, and know somebody else also has it.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
Sounds like a good plan for helping eachother along. If you (or others) ever decide to pick up TGB (Torque Game Builder) then I could definately assist (I was one of the 3 devs on it).

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Thank you for the words of encouragement. I'm sure you could help with TGB, but unfortunetly it would take longer than 1 month to learn I think and I don't have the money for it.

BTW, I used to live in Oregon.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
hey you live in Fort Wayne, MM?

I live down by Louisville. in New Albany.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
according to mapquest.com i'm a little over 2 hours from new albany, and a little over 2 hours from louisville. are you anywhere near evansville buddboy?

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
um.

you just said it was 2 hours away.

haha.

so I guess it's sort of near. but it is a ways.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Yeah, thats where I live. Fort. Wayne, Indiana, United States of America, Earth, Milky Way Galaxy, The universe of Man. Yeah, thats where I live. So would you be interested in having a community learning project?

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited December 29, 2006).]

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i don't live in evansville...i'm not a hoosier .
i might be interested in the community learning project...anything besides bm?

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

[This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited December 29, 2006).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Uh, I couldn't participate except for helping with BB+3d.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Unless we use a free language...

I suggest Euphoria.

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yeah I'd be interested in having one.

yeah I know you live near Evansville, in KY, right?

can't do BM. a little strapped for cashola at the moment. plus I just don't feel like doing a Blitz language.

googling euphoria...

sounds cool. I second his... eh.. suggestion.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey,what a nice idea, java would be fun specially j3d i have no clue about it but it sounds like fun,or even c/c++, or what would really be fun is _assembly, nobody uses it but the knowlege could come in handy(it helped me out a lot in understandin high level languages).♠♠♠

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
ASM?
Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I don't really want to learn Assembly. Java, might be something, but I wouldn't be able to do it until I learn BM.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yeah... i don't really feel like learning ASM..

then again it might be kind of cool. never know.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Trust me, you'd be screaming "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!" after the first week.

(I've studied ASM before... ugh)

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
haha!! that's kind of why I said I didn't want to do it. cuz I knew, from what I've seen, that it would be... ugh. haha.


Euphoria sounds good. but C++ would be kind of nice, too. seeing as how it is basically the industry standard. and it's enough of a challenge that we would need help from each other.

I say we do C++.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
C++ or Java.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
Java... meh, I don't really like Java. knock yourselves out, but I'm not wanting to learn Java. well, not yet anyway. I'm going to be taking a class on Java in a couple years, but only cuz it's an AP class. which looks good on a resume. =d

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I wanted to do Java because its a common web gaming language. Or JavaScript. But C++ might also be interesting. My dad does have a C++ for dummies. And finding free C++ compilers isn't hard.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
C++ - meh, that's barely a step up from ASM. Plus... ugh again.

Java - yeah, maybe.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Yeah, well if you want to go big in the industry, (I plan on helping with games for fun with my own corps.) then you have to learn it something.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
Laz, C is a step up from ASM. C++ is a step up from C.

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Realm Master: "I'm cockasian"
Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited December 30, 2006).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
He means in difficulty to learn.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
that's why we should do it. it is to learn, isn't it? and to help each other learning it. if it was easy, we'd just go learn it ourselves. plus it can't be that hard, lots of people code in it. myself being one of them. I'm not very good, but I code in it. or I used to, anyways.s

yeah, it's used in web design. but it's so complicated. of course, so is C++.... i dunno.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I may need to wait until I finish BM though until I do this. Or maybe at least my game.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
guys, if any of you know any programming language you would know how intimidating it was before you learned it. lol...i remember how scared i use to be of pointers and templates ,until i got them.understanding c++ helped me understan other languages. and asm is real fun once you get to know it.it helps you understand what all the other languages are really doing behind the scenes.we don't use asm much in real life but it gives us a lot of advantage to know it. i think we should tackle the hard ones.java is real fun,but the basis for java is c++,and i have to admit there is nothing more fun than c++, so i say c++ or assembly.if we are going for the knowlege that is. if we are just looking for something to get us a job i'd say java,c#,.net family....

but if we are looking for some real mind tackling challenges i'd say c,c++ asm,pascal,ada,fortran,cobol.....specially assembly.

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
Laz, C is a step up from ASM. C++ is a step up from C.


Right, I knew that.

Didn't I?

Arch:

Darn...

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
how about this our own open-source project!! we will learn a language and make an open-source application through that language..maybe c/c++,java...
how does that sound???but i think it should be something new and challenging for everyone.whether a jscript guy or a c++ guy,i say asm,c,or java...whichever is most unfamiliar for me assembly or pascal would be most unfamiliar. and remember it's always an advantage on your resume to say i know pascal,assembly or ada.

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Pascal - Ada? ...

I've learned the basics of Pascal - you know, it's not really a mainstream language anymore.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I guess if you put it that way Spade/Reepicheep, it would be no small impeachment of our honor if we were to use this great edge in battle against a weak opponent. So why not use the great edge vs. the honorable opponents of great difficulty.

In other words, I say C++.

BTW, I was falling asleep to Narnia soundtrack, and Inspired by Narnia which I just bought.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited December 31, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited March 23, 2007).]

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
I can never understand how it is that you are only eleven, Mene.

C++...

For all those who would like to do C++, I suggest they pick up a good tutorial book(C++ for Dummies is one I have read a few times), and check it out.

In my most humble opinion, they'd either recant their wish or be even more enchanted by the lure of C++'s inestimable complexity and convolutedness.(IMHO, oc)

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006

Each CCN member has it's own background, interests and 'predispositions'. I think the 'Community learning project' should be focused on a laguage that would benefit most members.

As for my preferences, they are Lua and C++.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I'm planning on learning C++, anyways.
Perl, too, eventually.

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Realm Master: "I'm cockasian"
Soterion Studios

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Laz: I'm sorry, I know I put a bit of my immature side on the net when I'm having fun... But really, I love Narnia, and I guess that helps me some how.

As for the General vote, it seems that it should be C++, Sure it hard, but if you want to see my reasoning, (and if your skilled at reading) see my previous post. I just think that since we are have eachother to feed off of, and its a essential language anyway, why not C++, we'll have others help, and I doubt it would be difficult to find help on C++. I'd prefer BM, but C++ would be my 2nd choice.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
No no - you misunderstand! I meant I am stunned by you being that young, as you seem a lot older.

Now if we seem to have decided on C++ - which compiler will we be using?

[This message has been edited by Lazarus (edited December 31, 2006).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Laz: I was making a joke, it was clear what you meant, although what I said was true, that wasn't the point you had.

Yeah, so its C++, I wasn't thinking of jumping in so fast. Atleast wait another year... Yawns. Okay so its only hours away. But really, I wasn't really planning on jumping in. ([sarcasim]Joy, (I can't even spell Sarcasim right)[/sarcasim] I sound like I'm backing out of this.)

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
haha. next year sounds great! haha.

k, C++? rock on. I say Dev-C++, since it's a popular beginner's compiler. plus it's free. and it's a pretty good compiler anyways. http://bloodshed.net is it's site. check it out.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Dev C++ is not a compiler and its most certainly not just an IDE for "beginners".

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Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
Dev C++ is an IDE which includes a compiler.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Integrated_development_environment

On the other hand, why do you say it's for beginners Buddboy?

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited December 31, 2006).]

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
He didn't say that - he said it's popular for beginners(which it is) - because it's easy to setup and use.
(Unlike say - Visual C++ Express or plain MingW.)
Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by buddboy:
it's a popular beginner's compiler

I don't know, to me it sounds like he's saying it's a popular compiler made for beginners, but whatever lol.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited December 31, 2006).]

dXter

Member

Posts: 59
From: Texas, the US of A
Registered: 09-26-2006
I started learning C++ a few years ago, but then decided to learn java instead... I'm trying to learn C++ again, but not with very much enthusiasm, so I'd want to be in this project if it's C++.

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
sheesh. can't even say something is popular for beginners without everyone jumping down your throat. thanks for backing me up, Laz.

yeah, I know it's an IDE that includes a compiler. it's just easier to say compiler. especially since that is it's main function.

I also said it was a good compiler anyways. meaning that it is easy enough for beginners to use, but it's still a powerful and usable compiler.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by buddboy:
sheesh. can't even say something is popular for beginners without everyone jumping down your throat. thanks for backing me up, Laz.

yeah, I know it's an IDE that includes a compiler. it's just easier to say compiler. especially since that is it's main function.

I also said it was a good compiler anyways. meaning that it is easy enough for beginners to use, but it's still a powerful and usable compiler.


Budd, that's what I was trying NOT to do. That's why I asked you *why* you thought it was that way, instead of just saying it's not that way and condeming you for it.

And about the compiler, I was backing you up on it, I was responding to Crazy's post NOT yours.

Cut ME a little slack lol.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited January 01, 2007).]

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yeah I was kind of responding to Crazy's post too.

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that post was really cool ^
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[|=D) <---|| me

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
The "main" function of the IDE isn't "compiling". You're talking about the mingw compiler. You only really have to worry about how "good" a compiler is if you're concerned with file size, and perhaps security. (correct me if I'm wrong on that last bit). You don't seem to be addressing either of these issues.

The main function of an IDE is usually considered the convenience. Write, Debug, compile, and run in the same program. Yes, without a compiler an IDE is pretty much useless, but I'm not trying to say an IDE has nothing to do with a compiler. I mean only that you need to stop calling the IDE the compiler.

The only reason I keep bringing this up is because you seem to still think the mingw compiler is an permanent integral part of Dev C++. You keep evaluating the compiler under the name of the IDE, and vice versa.

Perhaps if you stopped trying to make it look like your previous posts were somehow correct in some minuscule way, you might learn something. Community project...yeah, have fun with that.

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited January 01, 2007).]

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by crazyishone:
The "main" function of the IDE isn't "compiling".

From the strictly technical point of view you're right. However it's a common practice to use the 'compiler' term for IDEs, even among programmers with experience. This is especial true in the case of Visual Studio which has it's own compiler. So I don't think it's that much of a big deal if someone calls an IDE a compiler.

P.S As an example here's a list with 'compilers' that includes Dev-C++:
http://www.research.att.com/~bs/compilers.html
The list is maintained by Bjarne Stroustrup

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
so,i already know c++,but there are still parts of it i haven't mastered yet like polymorphism and templates,i was thinking of asm because i don't know too much about it ,but since you guys have your minds setup on c++,lets go for it.
IDE,COMPILER:
what ide you use doesn't matter as long as it is convinient for you,what matters is the compiler because the compiler and the linker are the ones that actually process your source code, so there really is no such thing as a beginners compiler. i don't think we should use any commercial ide's or compilers because it might be an inconvinience to some of us,as for free ide's and compilers i personally have borland c++ 5.02,turbo c++,bloodshed devc++. i always use borland,it's not hard for beginners and it's efficent,
i tried dev c++,but it can't compile some of my source codes,it wouldn't even include #iostream.h because the library is deprecated. if you are gonna learn c++ learn console programming first ,i don't recommend jumping into gui programming in c++, understanding the basics is important,and dev c++ is not convinient for console programming.most tutorials usually start with cout<<"hello world\n"; anyways so to learn c++ i'd recommend borland,some experts even recommend turbo c++ but i think that is too console,gradually when we learn all the basics,we could move up to dev c++,or even visual c++,but for now i say borland.

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as for tutorials i just used dietel and dietel associates tutorial software at prentice hall,i don't know whether it's free or not ,there are also lots of tutorials out there but i'd recommend on finding one and sticking to it or you'll get confused, I also think we should start threads where people who already know c++ like me and many more others could answer questions from those of you who are just starting out ,we could also submit articles and sample source codes and stuff. c++ is a large topic so i again really recommend on console programming first,if anybody here knows c++ already please back me up,which should a beginner know first? main() or WinMain()?
if we do decide on console coding first ,the compiler shouldn't matter,because we should first know ansi c++ before other stuff, and i think we should also add some c coding into this whole thing because c is almost the same as c++ and knowing a a bit of c helps with understanding c++,the basics of c and c++ are the same anyways.

i think c++ is a great choice because it is the industry standard and any expert c++ guru will tell you that knowing c++ helps you understand how the underlying hardware and os work more. i can honestly tell you that learning c++ has been the most fun educational experience i have ever done,i know how those pointers data structures etc... could be intimidating but believe me once you know them they are as easy as 1+1 and learning any other language whether vb,pascal or java would be a breeeez .

this is gonna be so much fun,specially if we have our own section on this site. ^__^

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
At this rate I'd bet the question of what program to work on first will turn into a HUGE flame war.

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Nah, I have no intention of being involved.

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Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
You're such a good volunteer, crazishone.
Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Crazy: Thats fine if you don't want to join in on the fun, there's no sign-ups, so if at the end when everyone's "Brilliant" then you can join in still.

Spade: You can still join in and help those who are learning.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
C++? Sign me up!

I say let people choose whichever C++ IDE/Compiler they want. I used Dev C++/MinGW for at least a year and I made my first C++ game with it. However, as far as I know, it's real time debugging capabilities are non-functional (unless this has been fixed). However, when Visual C++ Express came out, I switched over and never looked back. VC++ was much easier for me to setup, and beats Dev C++ in every category: stability, ease of use, debugging, speed of compiled programs, online help, user interface, etc.

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+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
ok,i used turbo c++ for my first program ever(hello world!!),but for my first c++ program that was orginaly mine i used borland c++ 5.02,i still use that today,i just downloaded codeblock ide(thanks to jari who helped me out on irc),and it supports borland visual c++ and many many more types of compiler systems,it looks fun and i'm currently trying it out,now we are not going to jump into games programming so if any of you learned c++ by your own like me,how did you do it?what compiler and ide did you use for your first program?

i personally have tried borland,turbo borland,dev c++,and i once wrote a program in visual c++,and as a selftaught programmer ,this is my evaluation:

Borland..........an improved version of turbo borland,i used versiion 5.02,i don't know what today's versions do but mine supports all the basic libraries ,windows libraries,open gl & directx libraries and more,you would understand what c++,really is using this,it also supports mfc,and owl,and has a nice debugger.
Turbo Borland.........it 'd help you understand what writing code from scratch really means,it has the standard libraries but lacks support for some libraries like windows.h and a lot more +it's console based and it was made in 1992/93.
Blood Shed dev c++......very nice,convinient,in real life coding i would recommend using this,but it has problem with using the standared libraries,
some functions that should be included are not and it considers most of the standard lib's as antiquited.
Visual c++.........very convinient,easy to use but will never in your dreams help you understand true ansi c++.

so,after seeing all of these looking back if i was to learn c++ by myself again,i'd still use borland,keep in mind that we are going for the knowlege of c++ ,not the speed and convinience,it really doesn't make a difference,what ide you are using to understand the basics what matters is the support your compiler and linker have for the standard libraries and thier implimentation.

if anybody else used more than one compiler /ide system,what's your evaluation?

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'm interested in this. i know visual c++ would prob'ly be the easiest to use, because everything in visual studio makes it really easy to do stuff, but we wouldn't learn much of anything. borland sounds good to me, is it free?

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
yes,i believe so,although i'm not too sure,i tried to download it but it was too large,if you can download something like 80-120 mb's you can get it for free,but i think you have to be a member of the borland developer network,membershiip is free,as for ide if you decide to doenload just the commandline tools i would recommend code::blocks ide,i tried downloading the compiler linker and lib's(aka free commandline tools) and using code::blocks ide,and it is working so far,but if you are up to a big download,i would recommend downloading the whole thing.

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
I personally would be completely against using any Borland product for this.
(Man... I spent days on their stupid website... the company is insane)

I'd say Visual C++ or Dev-C++. MS's product is like 500MB though, and may be harder to install(if you go the .iso - .img route).

Dev-C++ ftw, imo.

pword
Junior Member

Posts: 5
From: New Albany, IN
Registered: 01-03-2007
hey guys. this is actually buddboy, but my password's messed up. so I'm doing this to post until it gets fixed.

hey crazy, if you're not even going to participate, why the hell are you arguing with me? over probably the stupidest thing we can come up with?

apparently I am right, according to two members of this board. thanks Calin and spade.

besides, why do you even care if I call it a compiler? when I say compiler, I usually mean IDE.

don't even try and give me this bull about the main function of an IDE not being the compiling. what's the point of an IDE if it can't compile?

steveth, I agree. only thing is, what about issues with changing the code and stuff. I mean sometimes you have to enter stuff into the Linker window, when say in VC++, you might just have to click on a couple library files and click link (just an example, dunno if you have to do this). of course, with people like you who've used other compilers, we could just ask for help on here.

btw, Dev-C++ does have realtime debug now.

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
pword swears a lot more than Buddboy ever did, lol.
buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
haha very funny.

well I'm back now.

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that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Buddboy! Long time no see. Where ya been?
Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by pword:

apparently I am right, according to two members of this board. thanks Calin and spade.


Don't thank me all at once...

jk

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by pword:

steveth, I agree. only thing is, what about issues with changing the code and stuff. I mean sometimes you have to enter stuff into the Linker window, when say in VC++, you might just have to click on a couple library files and click link...

btw, Dev-C++ does have realtime debug now.


About the first part, I don't really know what you are asking.

I looked on the homepage for Dev-C++ (bloodshed.net), it looks dead. The latest version was released nearly two years ago (Feb 2005). I believe that was the last version I used, and it was unstable.

Regarding Visual C++ 2005 and ANSI C++, it does quite well with standard C++, better even than GCC based compilers. If you allow it to generate any code for you, it will produce non-portable Windows-centric code. However, if you just start an empty project and create your project from scratch (which you should always do) without any generated code, it handles ANSI C++ perfectly fine.

Any C++ IDE's I've used under Linux (KDevelop, etc.) do the same thing regarding code generation, producing non-portable Linux-centric code, so if you want to write portable C++ code in any IDE, don't use any automatic code generation.

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+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
in that case, i'm all for visual c++. express editions are free, and from what i've used of vc# and vb.net they're great for what we'll be doing...wait, i just had a thought...if the code we're trying to make is going to be portable, then what the heck does it matter what ide/compiler each individual uses...coudn't that remain a personal preference???

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

[This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited January 03, 2007).]

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yeah benny, but sometimes it's hard to make it portable. that's what I was saying in my last post. but I guess it would be worth it, and better than forcing everyone to pick one IDE that they may or may not like. I say everyone just pick their own IDE.

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that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'll be going with vc++ for now. here's a link to what seems to be a pretty good beginner tutorial.
http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
wow ,wow, WOW, don't jump so fast into visual c++,here is a good combination check out this sites:
ide:

http://www.codeblocks.org/
compiler:
this is the free command line tools for borland ,you have to register and go throught a 1 page survey....
http://www.codegear.com/tabid/139/Default.aspx

and this one is real cool i'm trying it out myself:
http://www.digitalmars.com/download/dmcpp.html

this one is also looks nice but i haven't tried it out.
http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/zip-picker.html

and the last one comes with code::blocks.

http://www.mingw.org/

guys,please whatever you do the last thing you should do is start learning c++ with visual c++,if you have no option then take a college course or something, please for your own sake. my recommendation is downloading code::blocks and mingw if you don't like borland or download borland free command line tools and use it with code::blocks anyways.don't make me say i told you so,when you ask what data structures,and templates are and what is their use? the basics are much easier to explain with console rather than gui. c++ is a very extendable language you can program anything with c++ anytihing from credit card readers to boeing airplane systems, by knowing c++ you also know c,so that opens up lots of opportunities for you i personally am trying to learn linux kernel programming right now(2 million lines of c code ) ,visual stuff just makes you lazy and hides the true functionality of the language,if you ask me the visual c++ and c# thing is one more of microsoft's attempt to make everything windows,believe me the onlything you could program using visual c++ is a windows desktop gui program that will eventually have to be recompiled everytime windows makes a new release (you have to do the same with other compilers too but with visual c++ you have to download a new version of visual c++ everytime microsoft wants you too) the reason behind visual c++'s popularity has more to do with it's buiseness efficency and ease ,in software world programming is a very time critical thing and visual studio makes life a lot easier, everybody is moving to java because of these factors now,but anyways what you seek is knowlege not buisseness efficency,don't be a victim for microsoft,take this advice and you'll really start to thank me,
if you don't like the compilers i recommended you can always move to visual c++,what's hard is moving from visual c++ to others not the other way around. don't let microsoft spoil your fun with c++.
as the matter of fact if you really start liking c++ you should move down to turbo c++,you'll be making your own libs before you know it.
---------------------------
p.s. code::blocks is really cool check it out.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'm wanting to learn c++ now...i thought i would be satisfied with visual c#, but it's just as simple as visual basic, and least it seems that way to me. hmm...guess i'll look into those ides and compilers tonight or tomorrow.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:

guys,please whatever you do the last thing you should do is start learning c++ with visual c++,if you have no option then take a college course or something, please for your own sake.

What's your evidence? I wrote a small program to look up words with a std::hash_map. The only thing that had to be changed to get it to run in Linux with GCC (which MinGW is based on), was referring to hash_map as an extension instead of part of the standard library, which it has been for awhile.

Have you used VC++ to write standard code? If not, I don't know why you are fear-mongering.

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+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
I'm confused. I thought the original post was meant to encourage us to share our learning experiences with the community. If you learn something neat using C#, then talk about it. If you learn something cool with BlitzBasic, then explain it. Stuff like that. Or perhaps I mis-interpreted the post.

To go along with the current direction of discussion:

C++ is probably the best choice for the group here, so I guess my vote is for C++.

For C++ IDEs, I have only used VC++, so I can't really comment on anything else.

Spade, you present some interesting comments, but I am curious to know your objections regarding VC++. Something more than to just not use it. What are its limitations? What do you believe are reasons someone will not learn C++ with Visual Studio?

> believe me the only thing you could program using visual c++
> is a windows desktop gui program

This makes me think you are either misinformed, or have not really used VC++ for any length of time. It is quite capable of creating console/command-line apps. It lets you create/use templates. You can easily create static libraries. You don't have to use the Wizards.

Do a search for C++ FAQ Lite. This FAQ covers C++ quite well and Visual Studio should be capable of implementing the listed concepts. This FAQ may actually be a good outline for a C++ learning project.

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
well you may be right,maybe you can develop console applications for windows using visual c++ ,and you are right i only used visual c++ a couple of times and i was just telling you what many have said.which one is harder moving to visual c++ or moving from visual c++? if you ever get a job in programming c++ code for windows it's most likely that you use visual c++,and a huge amount companies are now moving to other ide's eventualy you'll have to work with both kind ,for i did some coding in visual c++ ,and it was a breeze,(since i already knew how to do it in non visual environment) and i can still write the same code in turbo c++ with ease,i see very smart programmers having a hard time to write a code in borland or turbo c++,whether you like it or not you'll work with ide's other than visual c++,i'm just saying if the first ide you know is harder to use then you wouldn't have a hard time adopting to visual ide's,i myself would recommend visual c++ for any serious windows development,but you are talking about learning c++ you should make a choice that you think would make it easier for you to be the best you can be.

anyways i think we wasted enough time arguing about ide's and compilers ,if you are really interested in c++,just download an ide that you think is best and start your coding,i don't think at this point it is relevant what compiler you are using. just start coding and as questions and post your comments already,i think we should all get our own ide's try them out and share our experiences so that when it is necessary we can change to the appropriate ide.

and remember guys i have no doubt that visual c++ is a very efficent ide,but it is proprietary and platform dependent, if you wanna get this whole ide/compiler confusion out of your way now i already gave you recommendations if you rather deal with it later on well get a visual ide like visual c++,just don't late this whole compiler/ide confusion put you off c++ is more than an ide/compiler,and believe me if you can code c++ gui code in a non visual ide efficently then the whole point of it being visual is to make things easy for you,not easy to learn but easy to work with, sorry if i created confusion i was just telling you what is best for you to do your best.
as for proof here is one out of many:
http://www.charlespetzold.com/etc/DoesVisualStudioRotTheMind.html

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Spade & S^2 are both right. We've wasted enough space on IDE flaming/battling which is better. This is exactly what you explained s^2.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
I would actually suggest you go down a bit and try C, the only personal experience I can speak of is that I wish it was my first language. Plus it's been the bread and butter of the open source and freeware movements for years, two movements which appear to hold considerable sway in this forum with quite a few people.

Also a decent project (if it hasn't been mentioned already) would be to make a Roguelike.

Good luck anyway and all in all, the IDE really doesn't matter I haven't met with any IDE that has confused me for more than an hour tops if I already know the language.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
According to my knowledge, c & c++ are very different, perhaps some of the basics, but to my knowledge they're like BB and BM.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
C and C++ are quite different. In fact, I had one interview several years ago where the manager took note on my resume how I separated out my C and C++ years. He made mention how people often do not realize there is a difference.

It gets a bit confusing because C code is often easily integrated into C++.

Memory allocation, collections, I/O...there are many differences between the two. Even beyond just the OO vs. procedural aspects.

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by Goldrush13:
Also a decent project (if it hasn't been mentioned already) would be to make a Roguelike.

I'm a big fan of roguelikes. I think a fantastic project (not sure how feasible it is for a community project) would be a relatively simple multiplayer roguelike.

--clint

Matt Langley
Member

Posts: 247
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-31-2006
I definately think C++ is a great place to start, though the progression of this into a cohesive community learning project is going to be a bit awkward. Partially because everyone has their own learning speeds. What I would recommend is first start learning just the basics of using C++ (like it seems you all have already chosen). Then as you get to be a bit more profficient in the basics start looking at libraries and engines that use C++ for game funcitonality and agree on which ones to slowly bring into the process. This way you can learn the basics and slowly ramp up into learning to use C++ in more in-depth game programming without going off into seperate branches that will leave you unable to help eachother.

Also I definately would recommend Visual C++ hands down. There have been some comments about VC++ being too "easy" and not learning anything with it, and other recommend learning VC++ without it first. I highly disagree. VC++ is a professional industry tool (we use all versions of it, including the express one, for developing the source for all Torque engines, Torque is done in C++) and it's definately best to learn with what would be the most useful tool. Part of the process is learning the tool and you can do basic programs with VC++ (even basic console programs). I see absolutely no benefit from avoiding a more powerful tool when you will end up using it anyways.

------------------
Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
if you knew c programming before c++,then you would know the difference,otherwise the differences are mostly functions and headers,as in you use cout in c++ and printf() in c,or you use the new keyword in c++ and you use malloc() in c. if you know c++ before c,you can't tell the difference between c functions and c++ functions,any c code is also c++ code but not the other way around, for example c++ was a square and c was a rectangle. a square is a rectangle but a rectangle is not a square.
at least that's the way i found it to be,i never used a c compiler(or seen one) if anybody knows c well can you tell me if there are any different keywords or syntax's that are not present in c++?

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Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Hola Spade!

You are describing the fallacy I mentioned above. There is confusion as to C vs. C++ differences because C is so easily integrated into C++. But just because C code can co-exist with C++ code, does not suddenly change it to C++ code. It is still C code.

Take my opening line, for example. My use of 'Hola' does not convert this Spanish word to English simply because it was used in an English forum. It remains Spanish.

Your post points out some of the differences between C and C++, so you are clearly aware of differences. Memory allocation, as you pointed out, is 'new' for C++ and 'malloc' for C. This remains true even if you use malloc within your C++ code. If you were to learn C++, I'm not sure malloc would even be part of the learning process. Likewise, you pointed out cout and printf.

If I see a resume where someone claims to know C and C++, I will usually ask specifically "what are their differences"? This question allows the potential candidate to really show me what they understand.

Keep in mind, too, when compiling C code in C++, you will need to surround C functions with 'extern "C"' due to naming conventions in C++ compilers. C++ compilers 'mangle' C function names during compilation, causing linker issues. Using 'extern "C"' prevents the mangling and will safely link. This, alone, shows a major difference between C and C++.

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
SSquared ,i totally agree with what you said, i always tought of extern "c"{....} as some weird linker or precompiler command,you certainly clarified it.
which makes me think has anyone started learning c++ yet, did you get a bit confused? well the thing about this learning project is it's a community based project, so whatever confuses you just ask about it,and i am pretty sure many of the really experienced c++ coders here will answer it to you,if you feel like you will waste a lot of time trying to figure things out by yourselves just ask about it by doing so not only will you learn it faster, you will also help out other people trying to learn c++.

so another good advice i will give you is try to learn at least one thing in c++ everyday, c++ is easy to forget specially if you know how to do certain things but you don't quite understand how they are done.
this reminds of the confusion i had with the statement :
cout<<"Hello world\n";
i got how to display texts,but i didn't get how the << operator and cout work together to display the text, if any of you experienced guys remember when you did your first code,you probably had similar confusions at first,but the key to it is to keep on learning and coding even though you don't get how your code works ,you will.

♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ϖ 4;♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ 824;♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠
p.s.:
and also ssquared most c++ coders use c functions a lot like most people use char x[111]; or char *s;(what c++ calls cstring's) although it is seen it's not very common to see people use string object, or instead of fstream
most people use FILE * ,i think this is because of lots of codes in the past were coded in c like the linux os ,and many more c++ is suppose to be an advanced c so nobody wants to let go of those c functions they are so used to,but at the end of the day c is c and c++ is c++, but i just can't imagine coding in c++ without using a single c function or structure.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited January 08, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited January 08, 2007).]

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
There have been some really terrific ideas put forth.

1) Post something cool you learned. When you have one of those, "Wow! Now I get it" moments, then tell us your new findings.

2) Community Learning Project. Those who are interested can gather to learn/discuss programming. Sounds like C++ is the current direction for this.

Perhaps we should break this topic up into the two separate categories to better separate the ideas. I like both ideas as they foster community, learning, and growth.

Maybe someone will feel the urge to start writing C++ tutorials.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
S^2, (both of us have similar nicknames, S^2, and M^2). precisely everything I mean.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Hello All,
Its good to see so many wanting to pick up a new language.

I have many years experience as a programmer and am constantly learning new coding languages. If you don't mind, could I offer some advice?

First, if you want to learn a language. Gnothi Seauton! Know thyself. Here are some questions to ponder.

1. Are you new to programming?
2. Do you have extensive programming skills in another language?
3. Are you wanting to do something different that you have never done before with this language?
4. Do you feel limited with the languages you already know?
5. Are you in for the long term on this language, or are you learning just to solve a small problem.
6. Are you wanting a career in this language?

First try to find your motivation for learning.

Next, evaluate the language you want to learn.

1. Why this language?
a) Is it faster?
b) more structured?
c) feature rich?
d) industry standard?
2. Is it similar to a language you already know?
a) Similar in syntax (c, c#, Java)
b) Similar in structure (Functional, Object oriented)
c) Similar (or same) underlying framework, like .NET

Finding a similarity based upon your previous knowledge can springboard you into learning the language quicker.

Next, determine how to learn the language. From my experience, the act of programming has two primary disciplines: Algorithm design, and Syntax grammar. The first being the mentally figuring out how to solve the problem, the second being able to describe the solution to the computer so it can solve the problem.

So, for instance, if you know functional coding in c and you want to learn object oriented coding in c++, more important that c++ syntax, you will need to learn the methodologies behind creating object oriented code. You are learning new algorithm designs.

However, if you are already solid in object oriented and are making a switch from Java to Python. Most of the algorithms are the same. You are simply learning new Syntax grammar.

Brand new programmers typically start with functional coding and in a more textual language that looks a lot like English (BASIC,Pascal). There are arguments back an forth about whether this is best, but, from my experience it is often the case. To start with, every programmer should learn conditionals(if/then, switch/case), loops(while, for), and functions. These are the lincoln logs of programming.

Programmers with introductory experience (in my opinion) should focus on learning algorithms. Its kind of boring at first though, unless you just like the challenge of solving a problem. However, learning to design, implement and optimize algorithms makes your code more elegant. A quick note here. Try and avoid being a cut-n-paste script kiddy, it doesn't help you in the long run. Its fine to look at other code, but analyze it, figure out why it works and then rewrite it yourself. If you figure out HOW it works you will be able to implement it in most any language in the future.

Programmers with intermediate experience are typically driven to learn a new language because of a limitation with the one they currently know: its too slow, doesn't compile to an exe, not structured enough and the code gets too hairy, not a career language. To learn the new language, I would recommend, grabbing a syntax reference online and porting some of your existing code to the new syntax, or choose a personal favorite quick program and implement that. Mine is two player tic-tac-toe. I must have written that game in fifty languages by now.

Programmers with high experience, are mostly looking for a career change or to solve a particular problem where the language to learn seems to be the best fit. i.e. Learning perl for unix sysadm scripts, or c++ for use with a particular 3d engine, or RubyOnRails for a quick website prototype. Experienced programmers should only need a simple introductory article (Ruby for java programmers) and a library reference.

Well, I salute each of you for your individual attempts to broaden you coding skills! I pray also that God will bless your endeavor to learn. May it be for His glory.

Cheers,

Sam

------------------
Sam Washburn

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Thanks for the help, sam.

quote:

1. Are you new to programming?
2. Do you have extensive programming skills in another language?
3. Are you wanting to do something different that you have never done before with this language?
4. Do you feel limited with the languages you already know?
5. Are you in for the long term on this language, or are you learning just to solve a small problem.
6. Are you wanting a career in this language?


1. Kind of yeah
2. Not too shabby with what I have
3. Kinda
4. Kinda
5. Not sure what you mean. Probably long term.
6. Its kind of required if I were to. I was thinking as a side job.


quote:

Next, evaluate the language you want to learn.

1. Why this language?
a) Is it faster?
b) more structured?
c) feature rich?
d) industry standard?
2. Is it similar to a language you already know?
a) Similar in syntax (c, c#, Java)
b) Similar in structure (Functional, Object oriented)
c) Similar (or same) underlying framework, like .NET



1.abd
2. b I think.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey,guys how is it going ? are you learning c++ or what? well anyways i was just making a quick post to tell you about this tutorial at http://www.cprogramming.com

they have tutorials for c/c++ and it's real good. HTH ♠

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I've realized I need to finish my game first. Srry guys. I will look at the tutorial I hope though.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
Yeah, the cprogramming.com tutorials look pretty great. I would suggest that anyone interested in C++ should take a look at them. Feel free to post any questions you may have. I may start a thread to talk about more advanced C++ topics, too.

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
great idea steveth45 ,the learning project shouldn't be just for beginners it should also be for intermidiate programmers who want to improve their skills.

people rarely post in the general development section,maybe we should start specific topics on c/c++ in that section.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Remember, the topics are for dividing into what you want to talk about, not evening out everything. I wish I could give updates, but I'm in the middle of my game in the making.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
take your time mene-mene c++ is something you should learn when you have time on your hands, and i was just saying a programming language is too large of a topic to discuss all in one thread, if you get into specific features of the language such as opengl or directx in c++ or systems development ,os development, networking, window programming...etc ,it's all too large of a topic you can't have one person replying on opengl question while another is asking about networking things will get too confusing,this thread is ofcourse to tell your progress or ask questions you have on c++, but if some of us have specific questions(i am lurking aroung cryptography myself) we should create other threads where we could discuss those instead of messing up one thread.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Got it.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I'm going to take a look at those tuts now.
found the real tutorials at http://www.cprogramming.com/tutorial.html here.

Edit: WOAH!! These are REALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLY good. I admit it before all I knew was how to make a comment! (Not that I know lots more) I'm thinking of a lesson a week and going over and over the lessons)

Edit2: I'm confused, its taking strings as intergers.

Edit3: 1 questions: why isn't there a ; to end the "Include" line? 1 Discovery: There isn't any if statements:

BB:

function main()
a = 5 ;Sets a to 5

if a = 5 then ;Checks to see if a is 5

print "Hello!" ; I know this works
waitkey

C++:
[code]
#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
a = 5; //Sets a to 5
a == 5; //Checks to see if a is 5
cout "Hello!"; //Does this work does it work like a if statement or is it required to be on the same line.
cin.get();
}

I don't know if it works since I don't have a compiler yet.
------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited January 18, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited January 18, 2007).]

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006

#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
a = 5; //Sets a to 5
a == 5; //Checks to see if a is 5
cout "Hello!"; //Does this work does it work like a if statement or is it required to be on the same line.
cin.get();
}


there is no ; after #include<iostream> because this line doesn't actually reach the compiler it tells the pre-processor to include a file called iostream.h and it's contents into your program before they reach the compiler, stuff like cout ,cin are defined in the file iostream.h
all lines that begin with # are pre -processor directivees
i don't see how a==5 makes a difference in your code above, and there are lots of if statements in c++ they are one of the most importatnt features of c++,you will learn them once you reach the part of the tutorial about looping and switching.
basically the above code woud be useful like this:

#include <iostream>

using namespace std;

int main()
{
a = 5; //Sets a to 5
if(a == 5){ //Checks to see if a is 5
cout "Hello!"; //Does this work does it work like a if statement or is it //required to be on the same line.
}
cin.get();
}


i personally don't use namespaces a lot so maybe someone else could answer question you have on those.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Thanks for clarifying that up. It appeared from their example that there wasn't a if in if(a == 5) it appeared all you needed was a == 5. I noticed 2 brackets at the end of your code, why is there a bracket for "Cout "Hello!" ? Sorry, just curious.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
C++ is a typed language. You must tell the variable what type it is. Once the type is assigned, the variable remains that type for the rest of its life. This is unlike other languages you may have used where a variable can be an integer for one thing and a string for something else.

The variable 'a' still needs to have a type associated with it. For example,

int a = 5;

Brackets are used to define 'scope'. The brackets you are asking about are related to the 'if' statement Spade added. It says, if my check is true (in this case, if a equals 5), then run the following code between the brackets.

So, you may have:

if (a == 5)
{
int b = 7;
int c = a + b;
if (c > 5)
{
// Do such and such
}
}

Not very interesting, I know.

In the case of a single line, you don't need the bracket, but it is VERY good habit to always use brackets even for a single line.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
True, braces are use to define scope. But I also like to think of them as code blocks. Like blocks of code that execute as if they were one statement. Check out these examples:

Example A:

a = 1;
if(a==5)
cout "Hello! ";
cout "World! ";
cout "OOPS!";

Example B:

a = 1;
if(a==5)
{
cout "Hello!";
cout "World!";
}
cout "OOPS!";

The way "if" works in c is: if the condition in the parentheses evaluates to true then it executes the next statement otherwise it skips over it.

This often can be a hang up for coders who are used to IF...ENDIF

Example A's output will be:
World! OOPS!

While Example B's will just be:
OOPS!

As you can see the if statement only executes the first "statement" after itself. In the case of Example B, the braces form a 'code block' that executes as if it were one statement.

Does that make sense?

------------------
Sam Washburn

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 18, 2007).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
S^2: It appeared as if you could do this. But now I understand what went on.


int a = "a"

Sam:
Yeah, now it does.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
I just though of another hangup that coders going from basic to c face

in C, '=' means 'assign' and '==' means 'is equal to'.

So sometimes you can get a VERY annoying bug that looks like this:

a = 1;
if(a = 5)
{
cout "Hello world!";
}

This will not do what you expect since you are ASSIGNING 5 to a, not checking if IT IS EQUAL to a.

To help their sanity, C coders use this trick

a = 1;
if(5 == a)
{
cout "Hello world!";
}

because if you accidentally do this:

a = 1;
if(5 = a)
{
cout "Hello world!";
}

Your program will not compile since you cannot assign a value to a literal number.

This has saved me a LOT of headaches and it applies to other c style languages too like javascript, java, and even PHP.

------------------
Sam Washburn

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
what S^2 said about variables is something you should really know in c++ if a variable is an integer then it's always an integer if it is a char then it is always a char, as for blocks they are a way of grouping your code , a way of telling the compiler the code in between the brackets are one group,
so if we say:

if(a==5){
cout<<"Hello!!\n";
}

we are telling the compiler to test if a is equivalent to 5, if a is equivalent to 5,then execute the code in between the brackets if a is not equivalent to 5 then don't execute the code between the brackets.

that is oppose to :


if(a==5)cout<<"Hello\n";

this does the same as the first example,but if we add another line like this:


if(a==5)cout<<"Hello";
cout<<"World\n";

this code prints out hello no matter what because we didn't tell the compiler whether cout<<"world" is part of the code to be executed/not-executed, so in-order for "Hello world" to be displayed if and only if a is equivalent to 5 our code has to be like this:


if(a==5){
cout<<"Hello";
cout<<" world\n";
}

i just made cout<<"Hello" and cout<<"world\n" separate just for explanatory purposes, the output would be just the same if i said
cout<<"Hello world\n"; or cout<<"Hello"<<"world\n";

and about the = and == things ,when we say a=5 we are making a 5,when we are saying a==5 we are testing if a is 5 or not, a plane statement like a ==5 is no good by itself,but a =5 is,a==5 is a statement we mostly use in conditional branches like the if example above. HTH♠

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I'm seeing it. I've decided I've got way too active of a brain to hold to 1 lesson a week, so I'm going to do 1 a day.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Excuse me if this is already common knowledge.
But for all concerned, here is my terminology.

These are parentheses ( )
These are braces { }
These are brackets [ ]
These are chevrons < > (when enclosing something like an HTML tag)

The alternate terminology is to call everything a kind bracket in which:
These are curly brackets { }
These are square (or box) brackets [ ]
These are angle brackets < >

I only say this to help the learners and keep the terminology clear.

C++ is FULL of symbols and it can get confusing when trying to describe it in English if the terminology is not clear.

See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bracket

------------------
Sam Washburn

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
As a programmer you need to be concise and to the point, using correct terminology is key when you want to be brief and explicit.
Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Couple of new things I've noticed.

Do...While loop terminates at the end of its loop. In this code:


#include <iostream>

using namespace std; // So the program can see cout and endl

int main()
{
// The loop goes while x < 10, and x increases by one every loop
for ( int x = 0; x < 10; x++ ) {
cout<< x <<endl;
}
cin.get();
}

It runs a for loop. It prints the current x. At the end of its loop it ends in 10. But, it only prints 9.

2. // gives a comment as does /* */. /* requires an end. // Ends with the line. for a simile to BM. // is ' /* is Rem.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited January 22, 2007).]

Cohort X

Member

Posts: 126
From: The Great Pacific Northwest
Registered: 09-16-2006
I think that code you just put, Mene, will do nothing since it only loops when the x is equal to ten which it would only do if it actually looped 10 times which it won't since you initialize x at 0.

I think you meant to have x < 10 for that argument instead of x == 10.


anyway... a community project sounds fun

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
[sorry about the edit,i posted some wrong info that could really confuse peoople so i had to remove it]

incase you get confused on the part of the loop that says i++,and some loops say ++i..............


int x=0,i=0;
x=i++;
cout<<i;

this code will output 0, why you ask, that is because when we say i++ we are saying to evaluate i then add 1 to i(or iterate i),but if we say:


int x=0,i=0;
x=++i;
cout<<x;

this code will output 1. because we are saying to add 1 to i(or iterate i)then assign x the value of i,in the first example we said to assign x the value of i then to add 1 to i.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited January 21, 2007).]

Cohort X

Member

Posts: 126
From: The Great Pacific Northwest
Registered: 09-16-2006
for ( int x = 0; x == 10; x++ ) { 
cout<< x <<endl;

you're sure this works?
I was pretty sure the second statement had to be true but maybe that's just my compiler.

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Nevermind.

------------------

"The CIA must operate within the law.." - Former President Jimmy Carter, trying to solve an old problem.

[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited January 21, 2007).]

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:

for(int i=0;i<10;i++){
cout<<i;
}
this code outputs i as long as i is less than 10.

mene-mene,you noticed that i will only be outputed until it is 9,but the code you wrote says 10. that is because of you wrote i++ instead of ++i.


No.

This code:

for(int i=0;i<10;i++)
cout<<i;

and this code:


for(int i=0;i<10;++i)
cout<<i;

will both loop 10 times and print out the number 0 through 9.

The increment and the comparison are part of separate statements that will always occur in the same order.

Now, this code will print from 1 to 10:

for(int i=0; (i++)<10 ; )
cout<<i;

or more cleanly:

for(int i=1; i<=10; i++ )
cout<<i;

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited January 21, 2007).]

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
sorry about that,i got a bit too confused i'll edit my last post so that it won't confuse anyone.
i guess you need to make change it to for(int i=0;i<10;i++) or i!=0 .
anyways i'll edit my last post later on.

man i've been working on c++ more than 2 years now,how could i make a huge mistake like that, imagine if i was at a job interview and made a mistake like that. i guess because loops and switches are the real basic stuff i ignored them a lot ,even though i use them in almost every code i write,and not have problem with them. anyways i hope i didn't get anyone too confused.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited January 21, 2007).]

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey guys sorry about the double post but i think i am finally getting the code for my article to be displayed, i looked around the sub-directories of the ccn server and i finally found out where the link for your uploaded files get stored, anyways the reason i am saying this is since this is a community learning project and there are more than a few really experienced people here maybe you can tell me the downsides of my code so that i can improve it later on. anyways here is the link:
http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/data/spade8901112007034310/xor.CPP

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
[B there are more than a few really experienced people here maybe you can tell me the downsides of my code so that i can improve it later on. anyways here is the link:
http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/data/spade8901112007034310/xor.CPP

[/B]


Well, I didn't compile or look through the algorithms, however, scanning through the code, I saw some issues.

First of all the code is an amalgam of standard C, C++ and nonstandard C. Everything you are using from conio.h is not standard. You combine some C style console output with C++, even in the same line.

cprintf("File decrypted ",0x38); cout<<endl;

"cout" is in the "std" namespace, so you'll need to refer to it as "std::cout" or declare "using namespace std;" early in the code.

You could write the line like this:
std::cout << "File decrypted " << std::endl;

Also, you are using C style file operations. Instead of FILE *, I would try using an fstream object.

The standard library #include statements don't need the ".h" any more.
For example:
#include <iostream>

I noticed that you included string.h, but you make no use of the std::string object. Instead, you are using heap allocated "char" arrays that are never deallocated:

buf=new char[size];

This is a memory leak, as far as I can tell. You need the following line after you are done using the array:

delete [] buf;

The brackets look weird in the delete statement, but they need to be there when it is an array. They don't need to be there if you are freeing up a single allocated object. For example:
myType * pmytype;
pmytype = new myType();
// do something
delete pmytype;

You can read the data in from the file to a stringstream object, which is basically a string that acts like a C++ stream. You are already using streams. For example, std::cout is an output stream that displays the output on the console.
std::cout << "Hello, people.";
And std::cin is an input stream that gets input from the keyboard:
std::cin >> mystring;

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
quote:

First of all the code is an amalgam of standard C, C++ and nonstandard C. Everything you are using from conio.h is not standard. You combine some C style console output with C++, even in the same line.

cprintf("File decrypted ",0x38); cout<<endl;



you are right i mix up lots of c functions in c++ code,because they are easy to use and simple enough,i mixed up cprintf() and cout because when cprintf prints an end line it really doesn't start a new line it just moves down the y-axis,i used cprintf because it prints using colors,but the 2nd parameter is just useless,i use cout <<endl because it seemed to be the only one to end the line and start a new line properly.

quote:

"cout" is in the "std" namespace, so you'll need to refer to it as "std::cout" or declare "using namespace std;" early in the code.

I really don't see the significance of using the "std" namespace,other than making the code confusing, cout<<"Hello world\n"; works just fine.can you tell me why i should use std::cout<<Hello world\n"; instead?

quote:

Also, you are using C style file operations. Instead of FILE *, I would try using an fstream object.


i do use an fstream object sometimes but mostly i use c style file i/o just because it's simplicity,and also because c style file i/o has specific i/o functions such as getw(),getc().....can you also clarify on why c++ style file i/o is better than c style one?

quote:

noticed that you included string.h, but you make no use of the std::string object. Instead, you are using heap allocated "char" arrays that are never deallocated:

buf=new char[size];

This is a memory leak, as far as I can tell. You need the following line after you are done using the array:

delete [] buf;



I included string.h because i wanted to use the strcmp(),strcat(),strcpy() .... funtions,i almost never use std::string object in my code because lots of functions in the c library have compatibility issues ,mostly the only functions that wouldn't have a problem with string object are the ones you build yourself,and moreover i think the c style strings are very easy to manipulate,specially in a program like this one,how can you make the following code use string object:

for(int i=0,j=0;i<size;i++,j++){
//when j equals length of the key make j=0
if(j==strlen(key)-1)j=0;
//xor each value of buf with each value of key
buf[i]=buf[i]^key[j];
//write the encrypted char's
fputc(buf[i],out);
}

as for the memory leak ,that is something i should really fix,mostly i get memory leak problems when i use a linked list,so i never got around to using delete, anyways my problem i think is ,i mix up c and c++ too much,should i avoid all c functions(there are lots of c funtions that are not in c++ and are very useful) ,or should i use just a few c code in c++ or is mixing it ok as long as you don't get any errors.
and can someone please tell me the usefulness of std namespace???

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
I really don't see the significance of using the "std" namespace,other than making the code confusing, cout<<"Hello world\n"; works just fine.can you tell me why i should use std::cout<<Hello world\n"; instead?

Only reason for using std:: instead of using "using namespace std" keywords could be compiling speed, the compiler might be able to link faster not using so many "using namespace x" declerations. But as a tip whatever you do try avoid putting any using staments in the headers that will be included in many source files.

------------------
1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Oops Srry guys. I posted the wrong code. Fixed now. I was attempting something and it didn't work.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
@Spade
quote:

when cprintf prints an end line it really doesn't start a new line it just moves down the y-axis

The reason for this comes from back in the teletype days when your computer output was "displayed" on a networked typewriter of sorts. When ASCII was developed they split the "create new line" into two codes.

\r is a carriage return - Carriage return returns the cursor to X pos 0, meaning all the way to the left
\n is a line feed - Line feed moves the cursor down one.

This is why sometimes a new line is referred to as a CRLF Carriage Return Line Feed.

The annoying thing about it however is that M$ Windows and Posix (Linux) OSes interpret CRLF differently. Thats why it is best to use a higher-level cout<<endl which lets the compiler put the coreect CR and LF for your OS

I agree with Steveth that mixing code standards is confusing and is not a good practice(Especially if others will be reading your code).

I guess a good analogy would be writing a letter in Modern English with Old English interspersed. Sure, you can read it, it makes sense, but it takes more brain power to wade through it.

Also I think this was just a typo on your part, but...

quote:
int x=0,i=0;
x=i++;
cout<<i;


... will not print 0. It will print 1, since you are printing i not x. At the end of this snip of code, x will equal 0 and i will equal 1, since i is incremented after it is assigned to x.

Consequentially, from an optimization standpoint ++i is faster than i++ since the compiler does not have to allocate a register for the possible use of i as a parameter. Of course, good compilers may catch this and skip the allocation, but I still think its good practice to mostly use prefix incrementing (++i) and only use suffix incrementing when needed.

------------------
Sam Washburn

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 22, 2007).]

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
This looks interesting. Might I suggest a language that has an open source compiler/interpreter? I have a problem having my source code interpreted/compiled on something who's source code I can't see.

I suggest we divide ourselves into "new programmers" and "advanced programmers". The reason being many of us want to learn a more advanced language, and some of us want to learn how to code.

I also recommend the advanced programmers help out the new programmers if they know the language the new programmers decide on.

My language suggestions:

As an advanced programmer I would like to learn with other advanced programmers any one of the languages below:
C++
C
ASM
Java
Lua
PHP
Ruby
Boo
Some Mono/.Net language (Boo is a Mono language)

I suggest these languages for "new" programmers:
Ruby
Python
Lua
Blitz X (where X is some variant)
Boo

I would be willing to help "new" programmers with the following langauges:
Python
Lua
Ruby

Although I do not know Lua or Ruby, they are very similar to Python and the bits I have messed with I have picked up easily.

What do you guys think? I strongly believe we should split into advanced and new programmers. It will make choosing a language much easier.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Sorry about the double post.

quote:
Originally posted by samw3:
2. Do you have extensive programming skills in another language?


Yes.
quote:

3. Are you wanting to do something different that you have never done before with this language?


Not really.

quote:
4. Do you feel limited with the languages you already know?


Yes.
quote:
5. Are you in for the long term on this language, or are you learning just to solve a small problem.


Most likely long term.

quote:
6. Are you wanting a career in this language?


Not exactly. But if my career requires it, it would be a great idea to learn the language now.

Also, did I miss out on something? Have we decided on a language already?

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
@samw3

now i get why i couldn't mail an email using telnet,i tried just using enter . enter after the end of the data but it just kept asking for more data ,i guess enter in telnet just means \r and not \r\n(CRLF).

@CPUFreak91

what i wanted to do at first was learn asm,i really want to learn it but nobody else does,i started learning it a while ago but i couldn't get any free asm assembleres for my system the one i got didn't work properly for some unkown reason my guess is it's because of i use an amd processor instead of intel,hey do you think the instruction sets are different for amd and intel?

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Uh CPU, you kinda missed half this page. We're already doing C++. Thanks for your suggestions but a bit late.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Yes the instruction sets are different, but only mildly. AMD and intel processors are x686 compatible, but they add a bunch of (initially?) proprietary stuff i.e. 3DNow or MMX.

Are you sure you want to dive into assembler, Spade? It's some really hairy code. You do realize there are only branches and compares down there no if, for, whiles, structs, etc.

I know 8-bit assembler, never learned 16 or 32 bit since I had a fairly decent optimizing compiler to do all that I needed to do.

Oh, BTW, I just thought of this. An easier way to learn assembler is to use inline assembly from C. The C program can do all the dirty work of setting up the stack and code pages and interfacing the kernel, and then you can practice learing asm opcodes from inside a function.

See: http://www.ibiblio.org/gferg/ldp/GCC-Inline-Assembly-HOWTO.html

This is the way to do it if you just want to learn assembler to optimize a slow C routine.

If you want to write full-blown apps in assembler, then you are masochistic , just plain nuts, or a fricken genius and will write things like a hand optimized 3D chess board that plays Queen's gambit to checkmate while playing Axel-F in the background in a program that's only 666 bytes long.

In any case, I applaud your ambition.

------------------
Sam Washburn

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
samw3:

i kinda did get into it i just didn't have the time to get to know it well enought to make a functional program. and noooooooooooooooOOOO i am not even dreaming of making a full functioning program in asm,man back before i was a Christian i use to try a bit of hacking and cracking and sometimes when you want to crack a program you can't just do it by using a hex-editor you had to use a dissasembler and i usually got a minimum of 10,000+ lines(just a guess) for even the simplest of programs .and i don't have the slightest clue on setting up the stack and stuff,and i know how kernel stuff could get real complicated(fyi. the linux kernel is made up of 2 million lines of codee!!!),so my ambition is just to get to know the low level stuff,my desire in programming has got to do more with knowlege than accomplishment and i really like low level stuff . and ofcourse you can use c/c++ to add asm code in the middle if i am not mistaken you could do something like the following:


#include <conio.h>
int main(){

_asm add 3,eax;
-asm add 2,ebx;
//or
asm{
imul eax,ebx;
print eax;
}


getch();
return 0;
}

Ofcourse i may be getting ahead of myself but the way i see it you have to know what was before c/c++,java,*basic's,ada inorder to fully understand how they work and push them to their limits.

hey,did you know about the 5 byte .exe at http://www.planetsourcecode.com/vb/scripts/ShowCode.asp?txtCodeId=3450&lngWId=3

supposedly the following machine code is an exe.
T!ЩT!☻

i couldn't test it because i am at school when replying to this thread

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Yeah, that definitely looks like inline assembler.. except, is there a print opcode? seems a little high level for asm. But, like I said I never learned 16 or 32 bit assembler. You know, if you are looking for a way to understand the deepest level of computers maybe try digging into microcontrollers like the PICmicro i.e. a computer on a chip.

But, to try and get discussion back on track, I am willing as I have time to answer questions on this thread regarding learning c/c++. I am not a game programmer however, except for my one game, and that was a long while ago (1996). That was another time and place.

God bless!

------------------
Sam Washburn

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
Uh CPU, you kinda missed half this page. We're already doing C++. Thanks for your suggestions but a bit late.



I must be denser today... although I read the entire thread I didn't notice that you had chosen C++. I'll see what I can do to jump on the bandwagon.

quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
@CPUFreak91

what i wanted to do at first was learn asm,i really want to learn it but nobody else does,



Want to learn with me?

quote:
my guess is it's because of i use an amd processor instead of intel


I'm using AMD to. Maybe we can work in this. Send me an email @ cpu.crazy at jqsoftware OR gmail dot com if you're interested.

quote:
hey do you think the instruction sets are different for amd and intel?


There's bound to be some differences, but as samw3 pointed out Intel and AMD are x686 compatible.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
quote:
Originally posted by samw3:
I agree with Steveth that mixing code standards is confusing and is not a good practice(Especially if others will be reading your code).

This goes back to my posts at the top of this page. Mixing code is confusing and leads to a misunderstanding between C and C++. The items mentioned by both Steveth and samw3 point out some real differences between C and C++. Knowing C++ does not automatically make you know C.

Good discussion!

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
hey all. been awhile since i've been on these boards! but this sounds like a great idea and really REALLY want to learn c++! so consider me in on the "project"!

------------------
~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
The reason you need to use the namespace is that it is now part of the standard, and cout<<"Hello World."; will no longer work unless you use the "using" declaration or prefix cout with std::. If you use a more recent (standards compliant) compiler, then you will have to do one or the other.

The reasoning behind namespaces is that you can have similar libraries that don't interfere with each other. What if you have your own "string" class in use and then you do #include <string> ? Well, thanks to namespaces, you can still use your old "string" and the "std::string" as well. It's all about keeping the global namespace uncluttered, to avoid collisions and redefinitions. What happens is that you add a C++ library to your codebase, if there are similarly named classes in your existing code to the new code library, you will see a whole bunch of compiler errors because classes of the same name are defined in multiple places and it will be difficult to fix. However, if the creator of the C++ library was smart enough to put everything into their own namespace, there should be no collisions.

In a worse case scenario, two libraries don't use namespaces, have identically named classes, and you only have access to the headers and compiled object code, you are in big trouble.

You will also find namespaces in Java, C# and most newer OO languages for the same reasons.

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
samw3:
about that print opcode,i thought the same thing when i saw it but the magic lies in the power of the header,you can include headers for the asm code like io.inc if i am not mistaken.

cpufreak:
email sent,tell me if you don't recieve it anyone else wanna learn asm???

oh and concerning c++ which one do you think is the best for window programming the c style one which uses plane winows.h or mfc or borlands owl?

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I'm enjoying Bloodshed Dev C++ (Bad name, but nice compiler). I'd like to learn asm, but I haven't got the time between a large game project, and being behind in school, and posting here, and learning C++ my hands are a bit full. (Don't forget about the first snow since thanksgiving, where the one before that was last thanksgiving)

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
oh and concerning c++ which one do you think is the best for window programming the c style one which uses plane winows.h or mfc or borlands owl?

My recommendation from those is MFC. I personally do not recommend writing UI in 'c'. Win32 is great to understand the underlying (what's really happening) types of thing. But MFC/C++ is so much nicer and cleaner. Using MessageMaps is much better than having a HUGE message processing center with a bunch of 'if' statements to decide what to do. MFC contains many helpful built-in controls (trees, sliders, drop-down, listbox, etc.) and UI dialogs (Save As, Open, etc.). Plus, you can take good advantage of OO when using MFC.

MFC is not totally super-dee-duper, though. It's like a wrapper to Win32. It still maintains the underlying windows handle which is an annoying concept in Win32. With MFC, you will access your window (CWnd) using an object (MUCH easier to deal with), but MFC internally still uses the concept of the window handle. And sometimes, you will get an error that the hWnd (window handle) is NULL. So, understanding window handles (Win32) and when/how they get created may be a benefit.

Win16/Win32 have been a huge help in my understanding of user interface development, but it's kind of painful to use these days with MFC, C#, and Java providing a much better API set and event handling.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Another reason for namespaces is so that your own modules will not collide with other modules as well. There's nothing worse that trying to integrate two disparate modules into one system and they happen to be called the same thing. Then you have to dig through the code doing search and replaces and hope to pete you don't break anything.

Namespaces add scope to globals, functions and classes.

------------------
Sam Washburn

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Alert! This guys gone back to the tutorials. Something I've noticed is a structure is like a type.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
An update, I've gotten stuck on OOP mentality problems and so am trying to learn it from a new source. I'm reading an online book called "Thinking in C++" I've found it to be quite good.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Yeah, OOP has been very hard for me to grasp.

Plus, I've read several articles bashing it, so I'm not exactly a fan. But, C++ is C++.
Here's hoping you do better than me, Mene.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
An update, I've gotten stuck on OOP mentality problems


I had the problem. Once you get your head around it it's blatantly simple.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
think of it as a simulation of the realationships between real life things.

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
OOP is just a code abstraction technique. Although it's easy to understand in concept it takes time to master. Don't feel bad if you don't get a quick grip on it. You'll learn it eventually, after you've written lots and lots of code.

Calin.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I just needed a bit of a different aspect, I think I'll continue using the book though. My problem was that for me it just didn't make sense, why make a class w/ a method which can't be used for any other class when you could use a structure, and a function which anyone could use.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
I remember when OOP came out. It is quite a brain-shift from functional programming. It also has it's weaknesses. Here are a couple thoughts that helped me transition.

* structs (types) can now DO things, not just hold data. (This was a big brain-shift.)
Think Player.Move() instead of MovePlayer(Player).

* Inheritance is building off of generalized structures to make a more specific structure. We do this all the time in real life without thinking about it. A "Spalding TF-1000" is a "basketball" which is a "sphere". Each of these are a generalization that is a little less specific than the previous.

So, If I was coding a "Spalding TF-1000" in the Matrix for instance. I would start with a "sphere" object (if it wasn't built yet) that could have properties like x,y,z and radius (things that every sphere has) and have a method called Roll()(something every sphere does). So for any "sphere" variable I created I could say sph1.Roll() and the sphere would roll.

However, not all sphere's can bounce, but basketballs can, so I build a "basketball" object which inherits a "sphere" and implements the Bounce() method in it.

So now the basketball can Bounce() and Roll().

Inheritance is a powerful feature of the OOP. But be careful of fragile base classes if you have a really big project.

Loose coupling is the key to building OOP code that is maintainable on a large scale. This has lead to the modern concepts of AOP. But those are a little more advanced topics. Although, I wish I had know about them earlier.

God bless!

------------------
Sam Washburn

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited February 22, 2007).]

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
I just needed a bit of a different aspect, I think I'll continue using the book though. My problem was that for me it just didn't make sense, why make a class w/ a method which can't be used for any other class when you could use a structure, and a function which anyone could use.


Complex projects usually have tens or hundreds of thousand lines. "Loose" functions in a project like that makes your code a bowl of spaghetti. Most commercial applications have more than a single programmer doing the coding. If you organize your code in classes someone else can use your objects without needing to know their inner workings.
Thinking in C++ is a nice book however it's mostly aimed at more or less seasoned C coders. That doesn't make it bad for beginners but don't feel guilty when you don't understand examples or some explanations.


You can use just functions if you like and advance to classes later when you feel comfortable with them. There's a lot of experienced programmers that find OOP artificial. Don't take it as a stumble stone.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
Good point Calin--OOP is mostly for organizational purposes. What can be done in OOP can also be done functionally, but it's a bit harder for humans to keep track of everything.

Another analogy for private properties and methods is that they are like internal organs. Vital for making the object work, but not necessary to interact with the object. This goes back to loose coupling--keeping things connected only where they absolutely need to be. Otherwise, 2 years down the road and 3 programmers later, someone tweaks a function and breaks something else. Those are very hard bugs to find.

------------------
Sam Washburn

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited February 22, 2007).]

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I'm starting to understand it now.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto
I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
ok think of a racing game (cars) now you have many types of cars with many appearances and many many features , how do you organize them??

well you bundle up all the common properties they have in one parent class called vehicle and for a car you will make a car class which inherits it's vehicle properties from the vehicle class, then you add the carr type suv,4wd ,van,truck,...etc. and each of them inherit their properties from the car class but have specialized features , and it could go on and on and on.

look at this:


class vehicle{
int enginetype,vehiclewheelnum,vehiclesize,x_dimension,y_dimension,z_dimension;

public:


engine(int type);
wheelnum(int i);
int move(int x,int y,int z);
displayinfo();
size(int s);
};
class car :public vehicle{
public:
car(){
wheelnum(4);
}
};
class bike :public vehicle{
bike(){
wheelnum(2);
}
};
class suv:car{
public:
engine(1);
size(100);
};
class truck :public car{
public:
engine(4);
size(600);
};
vehicle::engine(int type){
enginetype=type;
}
vehicle::move(int xx,int yy,int zz){
x_dimension=x;
y_dimension=y;
z_dimension=z;
}
vehicle::size(int i){
vehiclesize=i;
}
vehicle::displayinfo(){

cout<<"engine type is: "<<enginetype<<endl;
cout<<"number of wheelsL " <<wheelnum<<endl;
cout<<"size of vehicle is:"<<vehiclesize<<endl;
cout<<" x dimension="<<x<<" y dimension="<<y_dimension<<" z dimension="<<z_dimension<<endl;
void main(){
suv mysuv=new suv;
truck mytruck=new truck;
suv.displayinfo();
truck.displayinfo();

getch();
}


this code isn't a really well thought code (i just came up with it so...)and it does basically nothing,
i am just trying to show you how useful it can be interms of organizing code and saving time.

you would get it more and more as you code more .

------------------
Matthew(22:36-40)"Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?" Jesus replied: " 'Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind. This is the first and greatest commandment. And the second is like it: 'Love your neighbor as yourself.All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments."
Whose Son Is the Christ

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited February 22, 2007).]

Xian_Lee

Member

Posts: 345
From:
Registered: 03-15-2006
quote:
Originally posted by SSquared:
There have been some really terrific ideas put forth.

1) Post something cool you learned. When you have one of those, "Wow! Now I get it" moments, then tell us your new findings.

2) Community Learning Project. Those who are interested can gather to learn/discuss programming. Sounds like C++ is the current direction for this.

Perhaps we should break this topic up into the two separate categories to better separate the ideas. I like both ideas as they foster community, learning, and growth.

Maybe someone will feel the urge to start writing C++ tutorials.


I'm learning C++ in my spare time (already have a decent understanding of C and am learning Java). I would love to get in on the next community project.

quote:
Originally posted by HanClinto:
I'm a big fan of roguelikes. I think a fantastic project (not sure how feasible it is for a community project) would be a relatively simple multiplayer roguelike.

--clint


Especially if the learning project is a roguelike. I love Angband, ToME, etc.

Actually, I would love to do something graphical as a learning project (almost all of my programming has been console-based).

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If games please me, and if it's possible to please God with games, why on earth wouldn't I make games?

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Hi, Xian.

A roguelike game wouldn't have much of a graphical interface though - would it? The ones I've seen usually just use colored letters.

Xian_Lee

Member

Posts: 345
From:
Registered: 03-15-2006
quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus:
Hi, Xian.

A roguelike game wouldn't have much of a graphical interface though - would it? The ones I've seen usually just use colored letters.


You're right, Lazarus. rougelikes don't have much in graphical interfaces as most would think of them. All the same, it seems a good project for developing game dev fundamentals.

Beyond that, I really like roguelike games, so I'm a bit biased.

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If games please me, and if it's possible to please God with games, why on earth wouldn't I make games?

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey where are you guys in learning c++??

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I'm technically in chapter 4 of Thinking in C++. Not sure how to do some more beginning programs though.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited March 23, 2007).]

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
i think i might've read thinking in C++... (i've read a TON of programming books). What's the chapter on?

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
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Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
I think its the one on Similarities between C (Language I've never known) and C++.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by spade89:
hey where are you guys in learning c++??


I think we should ban the guys that resurrect burrowed threads =P

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
hmmmm... in my opinion, if you're reading things you don't necessarily NEED to know or just plain don't care about then you could be better off to skip that chapter, at least for now. I'm not saying that what is in it isn't useful but until you get into more advanced stuff you probably won't need to know some of it.

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Calin: 1, even if it was a 20 year old thread I wouldn't perm ban the resurrector. But hey, it wasn't exactly dead. It was only a month old, a rule of thumb is 6 months. I'd just lock them if they're 6 months old since the last post. I'd give a little leeway.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
Calin: 1, even if it was a 20 year old thread I wouldn't perm ban the resurrector. But hey, it wasn't exactly dead. It was only a month old, a rule of thumb is 6 months. I'd just lock them if they're 6 months old since the last post. I'd give a little leeway.


I was just teasing him

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

spade89

Member

Posts: 561
From: houston,tx
Registered: 11-28-2006
hey as long as a thread isn't locked then it's open.
i just thought i should check to see if anyone needed any help in c++.

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.