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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

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If you can see Chuck Norris, He can see You.
If you Can't see Chuck Norris, you may be seconds away from death.

Java is heavily webbased and because everything has to run through the JVM, in a manner of speaking, it's not too fast of a language. I've been programming in Java for over 2 years now, and it wouldn't be easy to make a nice game. I have, always, tho, considered on making a turnbased RPG...

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:
Is it really very much simpler, even if in java a game programming library (like GTGE) is used? Does Python have any disadvantages that come along with its simplicity?

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Python is simpler, somewhat, than either Java or C++. However, it is much slower than Java, and very much slower than C++. The disadvantage of Python is that it is not compiled. It is parsed in real time by the Python interpreter. So, you take a significant speed hit for that reason. You wouldn't want to use Python for speed critical sections of code, like physics, AI, rendering, input, etc. Some say it's great for prototyping ideas since the syntax is easier and it has dynamic typing and flexible containers built into the language. I wouldn't use it for any action/real time games, but it would be fine for board games, card games, strategy games, etc.

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quote:

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Originally posted by steveth45:
I wouldn't use it for any action/real time games, but it would be fine for board games, card games, strategy games, etc.

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Having tried it for RTS once I wwould agree.

Love the interactive mode - you run your program with a -i
when it dies (if it does) aqll you variable are intact as are all your functions you just type away looking at your data and the subroutines till you find the bug.

I do think everyone should learm python if for no other reason - it makes the best command line calculator that I have found any where

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

www.darkbasic.com should get you there

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

quote:

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Originally posted by Ereon:
If you've done some basic and are looking for a good, simple language I'd suggest maybe taking a look at DarkBASIC, it's a 3D and 2D game oriented programming language that has alot of really awesome stuff built in. You can load 3D objects and level with one command, set up collision with 3 more commands, move your cameras and all objects with a single command as well. Then, on top of that you can add lots of plug-ins and stuff like that to give to acess to the AGEIA PhysX engine, AI functions, automatic Euler rotation support, all with very few commands and alot of power. If you're looking for something more driven toward simplicity and game design you might want to check it out.

www.darkbasic.com should get you there

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BlitzbBasic is also really good. And it's as easy DarkBasic and it's the competitor of it. Check it out:

www.blitzbasic.com

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:
Hey y'all, just wanted to know what you thought about java and python for game programming. [....] I don't know any Python, but I've heard it's a lot simpler and faster than java/C++.

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quote:

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Is it really very much simpler, even if in java a game programming library (like GTGE) is used?

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quote:

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Does Python have any disadvantages that come along with its simplicity?

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I've really struggled learning Java so when I saw Python I really went for it. Just to pique your interest, Battlefield 2, NASA, Google, and Civilization IV use Python.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

quote:

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Originally posted by Ereon:
Yes, they're slower, but they are SOOOO much easier to use and learn. With dedicated game languages like Blitz and DB though the speed hit isn't nearly as bad as with, say, Python, because the rendering engine and all that stuff is already built and optomized for you, so that it runs your commands as quickly and efficently as possible with as little slow-down as possible. The main difference that I've seen between DB and Blitz is that DB is more hardcore 3D oriented and makes extensive use of DirectX, while Blitz focuses more allaround and doesn't rely so heavily on an external setup like DirectX. At the end of the day if you're going to use and interpreted lang like one of these you need to get something that will compile to a .exe (like Dark and Blitz) and get something focused and optimized for what you want to do with it (or, in the case of DB, know enough C++ to write your own DLLs and add new commands that do things more efficently, not sure if you can do that with Blitz, Lava can correct me if I'm wrong). The further up the "totem pole" you go the slower things tend to become, but also the easier and simpler it is to work with.

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Yes you can creat new commands, or functions. And many people have made DLLs to add on to their Blitz games.

Also one reason to choose Blitz over Dark, is that there are *alot* more games with BlitzBasic. Look at games section on DarkBasic's site and BlitzBasic's. Also if CodersWorkshop was up, it's showcase would be a prime example.

Even though BlitzCoder is closed, the showcase part of it works, see here some of the games made for Blitz:
http://www.blitzcoder.com/cgi-bin/showcase/showcase_frontpage.pl

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[This message has been edited by Lava (edited October 06, 2006).]

There is jython www.jython.org

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C++ is probably best for game programming but it's so complicated...

Lazarus

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:

C++ is probably best for game programming but it's so complicated...

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quote:

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Originally posted by steveth45:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Lazarus:
[b]
C++ is probably best for game programming but it's so complicated...

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[/B][/QUOTE]

True, but still, learning all the in's and outs of C++, plus struggling with compilers... it's a real pain in any case.
Several programs that come as source that I've used are a terrible pain to compile, and there are usually errors. In fact I've never come across one without any. (Dev-C++ is a pain sometimes)

Lazarus

quote:

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Java is heavily webbased and because everything has to run through the JVM, in a manner of speaking, it's not too fast of a language.

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I have to disagree on all points.

a) Making applets and other web stuff is possible (and common), yes, but only a small part of the language. It is perfectly capable of producing regular applications, and although it has plenty of web functionality, it is in no way tied to the web. I can create an ordinary desktop application just as easily as I can create a web application or server application.

b) The latest benchmarks have the latest JVMs being quite close to C++, and some even claim a bit faster.

c) It is possible to use a static compiler to compile Java, if you really wanted to.

quote:

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I don't know how it compares in speed to Java, but practically no interpreted language can match the speed of a well programmed C++ program.

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FYI, Java stopped being interpreted a long time ago. A few years back, it started becoming compiled with JIT technology, and now Sun's current JVMs use Hotspot.

Indeed, I use a Java-based raytracer called Art Of Illusion for rendering 3D graphics, and its rendering times are no slower than equivalent C++ based renderers.

Java's weakness for writing games is, unfortunately, 3D realtime graphics. Its 3D API never really became popular, and being a separate download means you can't count on people having it, ande I don't think it's being maintained very well. Unfortunately, that means that most Java games are 2D.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

My webpage

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:

Several programs that come as source that I've used are a terrible pain to compile, and there are usually errors. In fact I've never come across one without any. (Dev-C++ is a pain sometimes)
Lazarus

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|steveth45|
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Visual C++ Express 2005 sounds good, guess I'll dl it.

Lazarus

[This message has been edited by Lazarus (edited October 07, 2006).]

so there.

ha.

losers.

Visual 2005 Shmisual 2005.

j/k lol.

never tried it. hmm... its free you say? when christmas break rolls around (or maybe thanksgiving break) ill dl it.

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that post was really cool ^

|
[|=D) <---|| me

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
Why'd I ever download Dev-C++? It's a total nightmare. A few months ago I was trying to compile an app and it choked on the header files because of the comment style! (// instead of block /* */)
[This message has been edited by Lazarus (edited October 07, 2006).]

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Interesting enough I use the same comment structure and it tolerates it. I do my developement under Linux and port carry the project over

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

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1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

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Originally posted by jari:
When using something else than MS compiler and linker don't you have to build every library from the source your self if the .obj file is not available?

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In Linux-land, software is encouraged to dynamically link to the code libraries built into most distributions. This is just not very practical for games which are made and broken by small changes in library code. Games need to ship with their own .dll's or statically link to the code libraries they use to ensure functionality.

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|steveth45|
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1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me