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Conquer Member Posts: 17 From: Netherlands Registered: 08-04-2005 |
I am developing a game in rpgmaker2000. It is a christain game. It is a game about a men, who lives in a city called Sodmora. It is an evil city and everything goes wrong there. He learn to know the Truth on his journey. Happy for him, but now he is so full of God he wants to tell it to others. You play that charachter. I think it is a game for ppl who already are christain, because it has a deeper layers. I will try to release a game as soon as I have a good start. ------------------ |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
sounds like a pretty cool game. is the game going to be in english or dutch(i'm sorry if i got your native language wrong.)? ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
Sounds neat! I look forward to seeing it! Please keep us posted with your progress! Please let us know if and how we can help you. --clint ------------------ |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
that sounds like a really cool idea.... ------------------ btw...its crazy-ish-one |
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Conquer Member Posts: 17 From: Netherlands Registered: 08-04-2005 |
The game is english so possible for you all! I just uploaded a beginning of my game. If something go wrong please report, because I am not really sure the game will work. I hope it don't need it's program (RPGMaker2000). I placed it on my own website. File: ChristainWay.zip If there are ppl who like to help me. Say it, I use a easy program called rpgmaker2000. You can help with making maps, finding the right charsets, chipsets. I know a good site for it. In future the game will offcourse be free. ------------------ |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
umm...well i tried installing and an error message came up, but it was in no intlelligable langueage. it was like fafafefufo....somthin like that...alot of "f's" and vowels... ------------------ btw...its crazy-ish-one |
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Conquer Member Posts: 17 From: Netherlands Registered: 08-04-2005 |
Whats the error then? Yeah, I couldn't get the right language for it  ------------------ |
QuestLeader Member Posts: 629 From: My house, Va, USA Registered: 04-20-2005 |
hey, that sounds pretty neat. im downloading it now 38... 39... 40... well its taking a while, so ill post again once its done... 51... 52... 53......... ------------------ |
en972 Member Posts: 562 From: NOT TELLING! Registered: 08-27-2004 |
Not to sound rude or anything, though isnt the english version of RPG Maker illegal? Just Wonderin In Christ ------------------ |
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QuestLeader Member Posts: 629 From: My house, Va, USA Registered: 04-20-2005 |
hey, i couldnt get it to work either! this is just weird......... i got the same error thet was like, FHFUFIFKFZFUFK or something. well ayways, good luck tp you. in christ, ------------------ |
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Conquer Member Posts: 17 From: Netherlands Registered: 08-04-2005 |
I have download it for free just on the internet. No warez site's or something. It is legal I suppose. I hope :S But I see it don't work and I will try to make it working  .------------------ |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
Hi Conquer. I installed it and wow, the game looks really cool! The intro was nice and the music is nice and I thought that if some one who hans't found Jesus yet might be interested to see what a Christian game has to show if he/she ever get far enough and installs your game. However I'm sorry to tell that when I talked to one witch(?) next to the cross on the left my character just moved below the old guy and didn't move any more and I coulnd't move him either. But anyway. Is this combat or non-combat RPG? And why RPG maker2000 instead of 2003? Thanks. ------------------ Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1 And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17 [This message has been edited by Jari (edited August 07, 2005).] |
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Seven7 Member Posts: 50 From: USA Registered: 03-16-2005 |
Conquer,
quote:
People are getting the "funny strings" because the default user library is J. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
and yeah, the english translation of RPG Maker 2000 is not legal. ------------------ |
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Conquer Member Posts: 17 From: Netherlands Registered: 08-04-2005 |
mmm, I don't know anything about unicode. I have a legal version I suppose, else it was english, though? I hope some of you can play the game. It is a non-combat RPG I think. Combat doesn't feels really good to me. I used RPG maker2000 because I had that one on the computer at the moment. RPG maker2000 has on a special site for chipsets, etc. much more than RPG maker2003. Thanks for the comment on the game Jari. I actually search ppl who want to help me with the whole game. You only need RPG maker2000 and the game I will send it by email. I have msn so say if you like to help. ------------------ |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
I'm interested to watch the progress you make with this game since it's non combat but I don't really have the time to help because of my own project. Do you plan to set up a site or something? God bless. ------------------ And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17 |
Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
I'm very sorry if I upset anyone here, but I have to say, I find this game insulting. I happen to be a Wicca follower and disagree with your representation of the witch. It is common in modern day teachings and media to represent witch's as bad people, while members of other religions can follow our exact same methodologies and call themselves just. A witch is not a green skinned hag who cast's spells and creates potions!!! A witch is actually a man or woman who deals in herbs and natural remedies for health (much like people are starting to pick up on... You think GNC and Holland and Barrett's started the trend of healthy living? Not using GM products? Keeping chemicals away from livestock and living a cleaner life while protecting the environment?). We witches have been trying to protect our planet for centuries. We're peaceful, non spell casting members of society. What you call spell casting and evil doing is in actual fact using our brains for more than thought and attempting to direct energy to positive deeds. We have a laying of hands like Christians. We are one with nature like Christians. We share a fellowship of good natured people like Christians. Yet we don't war. We don't fight. We don't do harm to others in the name of anything, for any harm is unjust. Evil begets evil. Wicca has one main rule called the Wiccan Rede. It states, in a rather old tongue, "An it hurt none, do what thou will"... This means, live life, but hurt no one. We take this Rede very seriously to the point that we would not help ourselves for the thought that it may rob another. We would never pray that we might win the lottery, for this would rob the person whom chance saw fit to bestow it. We would never try to wish people to even love one another, lest chance deem this a bad match and cause misery. We would not even break a twig from a tree branch, lest this twig make a resting place for a needful bird. But we do pray that a person might be strong and positive. That they may be happy. That one might find what it is they seek. We are peaceful, loving people, more so than any other religion. We do not fight or war, yet we strive to aid others in need. We do not call upon spirits like others believe, though we do listen to them in what they have done before us. We look to the earth and the animals and see that they rob no one and hurt no one... They merely live in unity with the world, and kill only for food and survival as nature intended. This is how we all should live. So I ask, please do not condemn us in your teachings of your god as your kind have for hundreds of years, but understand us in what we endeavour to do. We would never push our belief's upon others, for others must become enlightened in their own way. This is why many of us are solitary followers. We know that life must continue and to allow this act, we must do what nature tells us to do. You may call nature God, but we call it life. As your teachings state, Jesus came to save the world, but did he not do this by just deeds and kindness? Read between the lines, and either enlightenment or questions will follow, and either are positive and good. Your God says that you must follow him to be saved? Wouldn't he prefer that you follow in bravery and without doubt than to follow through fear of damnation and lack of knowledge to backup your convictions? We feel the same. To fear is negative. To not further your understanding with knowledge and education is to lead yourself down a road with no map. Just deeds can only be done if you know they are just, not think they might be. I once remeber my Pastor neighbour telling me that the devil plants doubt in the mind of the unwary. We Wiccans do not believe in the devil... This too is a common misconception (if we don't believe in the devil, how can we follow him?)... But we believe that if we strive to do the right thing or the positive thing in any act, then we are just, regardless. For any devil would not entice a man or woman to do acts of kindness or good deeds. The bible states that man can cause satan to turn his head for the evil that man does is beyond even him. This to me not only shows us what we are capable of, good or bad, but also show's that we are in control of our own lives. If we listen to others, we are not listening to ourselves, and it is within ourselves that all answers can be found, whether it is god talking or nature as it was intended. Thank you. And please do not take offense from what I have shared with you all. We are all enlightened people in our own way. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 06, 2005).] [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 06, 2005).] |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
elightened and decieved are two different things. Christ loves you, i love you. you need to repent and turn to God. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs [This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited September 06, 2005).] [This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited September 06, 2005).] |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
quote: Is it not your master who you pray for?
------------------ Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1 |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
Please, this will not be a battle for who is right, for I believe what I will. This is what having your own mind is all about. My religion (though we do not really call it such) has existed far before Christianity and is the background for many noble peoples, including Native Americans, Maori's, most of europe before the Romans invaded and pillaged much of it. It is true, pure and noble in itself. Most of all, however, it is my belief and I would very much prefer not to have it slandered, in Gods name, your name or any name. You should understand this, for much of your religion is based on Wicca. Do you not dress a tree at Christmas and hang trimmings? Placing a star in a tree, a five sided star at that, is very much Wiccan. Since when were Christians Astrologers after all or believers in the elements? This was our tradition before you took it as your own. Just as many other parts of the year. We celebrated our Spring Equinox and Beltane well before Jesus died, let alone before Easter came to pass, yet for us, it is about life returned and the resurrection of the Sun... This is too much of a coincidence. Also, Christmas was set at the time we have our Winter Solstice. Many many of your traditions were ours well before Jesus came to be. In fact, they did not come to be until Rome invaded Britain and much of Europe, which was when they warped our beliefs, stole many more and all in the effort to twist peoples minds from their original religion. Why do you think Jehova's Witnesses do not celebrate Christmas? It is because they seek knowledge much like we do and feel that Christianity should be it's own religion, not a selection of some other religion. Jesus told no one to celebrate Christmas or Easter. He simply said to remember and spread his word. If you disbelieve, then seek out the truth, for that alone can harden your relationship with your God. That alone will allow you to be pure with your God. Read the bible, not what others tell you. Look to old texts. Jesus was very much like a Wiccan follower, and we respect him as I'm sure he would have respected us. It is said he spent time in his late twenties in Britain, walking among the Wiccans/Pagans, for that is who we all were at that time. And in that time, he did not spread his word of God as much lived it. It was his time of enlightenment, and in all that time, Wicca remembers him as a good man and a carer. Jesus said he died to save those who have sinned, but those who seek just ways and rightiousness have already been saved. This is why those who do not know of him, or those who lived before him were saved. Not by Jesus, but by Gods will. We live the word of God from the beginning of creation, not the coming of Christ. Though we have a different history than your teachings, did not God give laws unto Adam and Eve? You could say that Adam and Eve followed Wicca, for they could do nothing else. Learning of Jesus is not the sole way to a wonderful afterlife. Would God offer good natured people to hell if they never received the chance for redemption? Like I have stated. Read between the lines. It will make you a stronger Christian as it has made me stronger in Wicca. Some of what I have said are not in standing with my beliefs, but they should get the point across. We do not believe in heaven as such, moreso different planes. We do not believe in God as you do, moreso the bountiful energy of the Universe around us. This does not mean we don't believe in God, we just see God differently. The Universal spirit is both Male and Female, as we are both Male and Female. Our bodies are but tools. We all have the same energy and are one with one another. While you are Christian and I am Wiccan, it matters little. What matters is what you do, think, feel and strive to accomplish. Live well and learn much. ------------------ |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
quote: No it is not. We do not pray as such so we do not talk to anyone. Like I have said, we do not believe in God or Satan... We believe in the Universal energy. When we talk within ourselves (what you call prayer) we merely say to ourselves what we would like to accomplish. This has the effect of making us steadfast, positive and determined, much as it would in all of mankind. We believe that to make things happen requires a determined brain. I do not mean to make things happen supernaturally, but physically. If I wanted to move my right hand, I would have to tell it to do so. I do not pray for it to do so (unless I no longer had a right hand I am sorry if I am not describing things well. This is how missunderstandings occur and how Christianity believed Wicca to be evil. We strive far more than Christians to do good and often succeed. Do not wars start on the lips of religious grounds? None do unto Wicca, for we would never allow it. So who is subject to evil here? I do not want to start a name calling battle. I just wish to be understood that we are not and never will be evil. We are kind, good natured people. Many of my Wiccan friends are doctors, teachers and give aid in coutries where people are unfortunate. We are everywhere we are needed and we will give help where there is need. Actions speak louder than words. ------------------ |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
I am sorry, I just understood the previous post. I did not say master, I said Pastor... As in an Evangelical Christian Pastor... Or Reverand if you will... He was my neighbour, a good kind man, and we often had much to talk about, though believe it or not, we often decided to talk about things other than religion. Surely you have heard of the term Pastor? If not, then lack of knowledge is far worse than false knowledge. You need to read more about what it is to be Christian, else you are not doing yourself or Jesus any favours. Man must not be goaded into action but lead oneself through careful debate and of a steadfast nature. The balance of oneself must have a strong foundation for the slightest counterbalance can cause the biggest upheaval. Actually, he was the first Christian I ever met who had a strong case in favour of Extraterrestrial beings. He often said 'Jesus never denied their existence, and surely God can visit many worlds in his domain'. A wise man. Blessed be. ------------------ |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
I feel pity for you for you do not seem to understand Christianity and you judge all Christians because of what some Christians do. My advice to you is to look towards our God, not us sinners. It's understandable that you make this typical mistake because you believe in your own wisdom but you see all what is good comes from God. And the things you call good are not. And I did understand what you meant by pastor but non the less you are follower of Satan and it is not your own brain that controls things but Satan who has deceived you. I was hoping that I could help you to see but after reading what you said I realised how wicked and twisted your vision is. Only by God's grace you may be saved, repent, before it's too late. ------------------ Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1 |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
I believe there is one thing worth to be pointed of what you said. We are not supposed to do any favors to our self nor to God. For all our good works are nothing more than filthy rags in front of God, the almighty. Also Jesus died for every one's sins and there wasn't and never will be a man who haven't sinned. Jesus is firstborn from the dead and resurrection. PS. I don't consider you as evil, but what you do is from the devil and that is very evil. And since you are not with us (with our Lord Jesus Christ) you are against us. ------------------ Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1 [This message has been edited by jari (edited September 06, 2005).] |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
quote: Maori's huh? So your *religion* despite the sugar coated descriptions is about living in fear of, and appeasing spirits, cursing though who have offended you, extreme tribal warfare and cannibalism? (hey i am not maori, bashing, this is jsut the truth of its history, i am a kiwi, and love alot about hte maori culture (i.e family values in comparision to the selfish individualistic way of the modern west).. so is that what your religion is about.. "i suppose doing no harm to others" is easy to interpret when its not based on anything solid and absolute, its all just relative. I do admire your desire to live well adn treat people good, i see your sincerity and appreciate that - in this modern world, not many people even have that, but how much more 'good' you could do or acheieve if it was directed the right way. Karl ------------------ |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
I must admit, I expected more. You all really don't seem to understand. As I have said, my religion has been persecuted for centuries by people who don't understand, just as the Native Americans and the black people were by white invaders. Recently, my neighbour shocked me by calling black people monkeys, and I had to verbally eject her from my home as she took it as an insult that I stood up for them. It is the same for my people. I will argue no more on the subject other than to say that a man who only see's what is there will see nothing at all. Evil is best directed to a man who has no other path available or refuses to find where other paths may lead rather than assume the map given is correct. And though he may be safe on his path, he is already lost, for he does not see that his actions still carry consequences. You may all be Christian, which is fine, but foul the land which is our home and God will think less of you. I see few of you who go to such extents to save our world and it's living creatures, yet you shun us who care for it and seek to save it. I pity you all for being so blinded, not by God, the good book or man, but by yourselves; for although you are just in being Christians, and I will stand by your religion for it has treated me well, it is the followers who are not worthy for they fail to use what God has given them as their most powerful weapon against evil - their brain. Many of my best friends are strong Christians, but they are wise enough to know that man is man's worst enemy.
[This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 06, 2005).] |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
i agree that man is often man's worst enemy, and many of them have been men who have claimed the name of Christ, but denied his teachings. I also grieve the fact that we have often been bad stewards of the earth, God (the christian God) gave us a role to reposibily use it, but we have often abused it.. (i.e in my native New Zealand, us europeans in about 30 years destroyed much of its native forests, turning 90% into farmlands, almost overnight. I am one with the Maori in their efforts of conservation etc, however when you were talking about religion, your's and their ancient ones, you still haven't answered how cursing people, making war and eating people fit into your wicca? - or maybe you were just historically ignorant?, it reminds me of a case in fiji, where an atheist came and talked with the chief, explaining to the chief how the european destroyed the chiefs culture and abused their country etc, and the cheif just said - if it hadn't been for the missionary, i would have cracked your head of that rock over there, and been cooking you already. the sad thing, is there was a mixture of good and bad, people pushing european culture onto the poeple, more than sharing the gospel of Christ (for in their minds they couldn't seperate the 2) mixed with others who just wanted to make money and use and abuse any in the way to getting to their selfish goals, yet despite this, truth is still truth. read the following link to show the effect of the word of God, on the Maori, in a Maori way, despite the complications of collonialism. http://www.biblesociety.org.nz/bsnz/maori.htm I don't know if you have ever been to my country, or know one of my people, understand much about maori religious history, Maori spiritualism or Maori christianity, but i think you should do some research before using it in a sweeping generalisation , that in effect contradicted your description of wicca. . ------------------ |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
Klumsy, I stand by what I say. My family are from New Zealand, so I know much of it's history, and what I said is correct to an extent. Moari's will not claim to be Wiccan, but they still have many of the same beliefs. This is where our confusions lie and I am sorry. The Native Americans for example, believe in the Circle and the four corners as us Wiccans do, yet they also believe in shape shifting and ancestral worship, which we do not. The Moari's believe in the spirit of nature, Universal Energy, and the spiritual plane, but of course, we Wiccans do not believe in eating each other  All I am saying is that, at the core, we are all at one with our surroundings, which is our most important belief, yet (as a generalisation) Christians have proven to be nothing of the sort. It is this that I liken to these peoples, not the actual religion with which they took upon themselves. Paganism is a vast number of religions, and I only claim one of these, though we Wiccans are said to be the most caring and understanding of all Pagan religions.Wiccans believe that the truth lies within us, which is where our communication fails, for no words can express these truths that can't be twisted with more words. Blessed be. ------------------ Edit: I believe the Moari religion is Haka btw, which is a form of Paganism. Though, like I said, Satan worshippers call themselves Pagan, which is far from the truth. At least Haka has good teachings and supports the eco system and the energy of mother earth. [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 06, 2005).] |
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HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
Hey Wiccan! Thanks for coming on the boards and talking here! I wanted to reply to the original comment you made regarding witches. I'm mildly familiar with wicca and the terminology used regarding witches, but please forgive me if I err. I don't think that the "witch" that was referred to above was a witch in the wiccan sense, but rather a witch of a more classic pagan sense. For instance, the witch of Endor, or Simon the sorcerer, or modern-day witch doctors of the Voodoo religion. People such as these use terms that are shared with Wiccans and many other systems of belief. I think that is the kind of witch that was being referred to. Edit: Also, you mentioned that other people can practice the same methodologies as Wiccan, yet without the "witch" moniker, and call themselves just. However, anyone who worships the creation (nature) rather than the Creator (God) is lost, whether they call themselves a "witch" or not. I agree that the world is a wonderful place that we need to take care of, that our bodies are to be properly cared for, but Christians do so out of worshiping the one who created the world, not worshiping nature itself. For that reason, GNC-fanatics may call themselves "just", but without Jesus to justify them, they are still in err. Respectfully, [This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited September 06, 2005).] |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
how does wicca explain the beginning of the universe? where's your proof of this "energy" flow? wicca according to dictionary.com : Wic·ca ...there our gods and godesses in wicca, which wiccan people do pray/chant/recite/whatever-you-call-it to. so it seems y'all don't rely on your own strength. this isn't just from dictionary.com, i have studied this before, because i was into it when i was around 12. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
The term God or Goddess is a means to explain male and female energies. We do not worship the energies because we are this energy, much as everything in existence is this energy also. It's complicated to explain, but we do not worship in the sense of how you worship, more we respect and adhere to the natural world and spiritual being that is the soul. It's not something that can be explained and argued like written text. It is something that just is, much like God to Christian's just is. We actually believe in the same thing, we just see it differently. To us, God is this eternal energy. As for magic, we perform no more magic then your prayer. If we want something to come to pass, we concentrate on this, and it would more likely happen. This, in a more basic context, can be likened to "if you want it bad enough, it will happen" or "all things come to he who waits". Like electricity, the weather, chaos theory etc, Wicca is missunderstood and blown out of proportion because "others" do not want to accept it, but its beliefs exist, even if others may see these as their own beliefs in a different way (I'm sure you can see what I am saying, even if I cannot say it as easily) Blessed be. ------------------ |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
My one comment: I fail to see how your "religion has been persecuted for centuries by people who don't understand" considering Wicca has been around for less than a hundred years. Now if your religion is Paganism in any of its variants then I'm guessing you're one of those people who argue that truth is only a perspective considering all the variants contradict each other in many aspects. Most forms of Paganism do not have the Wiccan Rede, for example. Wiccans often claim their religion came before Jesus. Right. More likely most of it was fabricated during the 1940's when it first became public; ie, it has no historical roots other than the occultism that sprung up during the 1800's in England. You see, at the time the Roman Empire was very tolerant of religions as long as they didn't promote human sacrifice. The group the Wiccans claim their teaching came from had the belief that they could sacrifice a king given certain circumstances in order to prevent a disaster. The leaders were given a "sign" that the Roman Emperor himself needed to give up his life for the people and they sent a delegation to inform him. The Emperor replied that the leaders should ALL gather together so he could "discuss" this with them. You can guess what happened then. In short, all the leaders who had memorized the beliefs of their religion died, any writings were destroyed, and any followers scattered. ^ Sorry that was so vague, but I haven't researched this in years. Anyway, I have zero interest in Wicca. If I'm going to start believing that I'm just part of some Universal Energy I might as well call myself a Jedi, say I'm part of the Force, and chase after someone with my lightsaber. |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
The problem here is that, originally, Pagans were those who follow a way of life, not a religion. Now however, there are numerous religions all classed as 'Pagan' because others can see no other classification to put them in. When 'Wicca' began, around 1950 tbh, it started simply to tell people that 'this is the original pagan belief system as passed from parent to child over thousands of years'. Wicca is truely the Pagan belief before Paganism was tarred with the unusual acts of spiritual mediums and those bizarre satanic people. These people are not Pagan because they introduce idea's that are actually Christian beliefs. We don't believe in Satan, so why would we have Satan worshipping? We don't believe in calling spirits, for this is to disturb something that must not, but we do listen to them, like one may listen to the wind. When a life touches this earth it leaves behind a mark in the people who's hearts they have touched. This is why there is so much confusion. We Wiccans would normally - and for hundreds of years before Christianity - not give our belief a name, nor would we consider it a religion as such... It is merely a way of life. We look to the soul like others would look to a resume. Anyone can do it, religious or not, and it is in fact something the Christians often try to do when they teach. Christians know full well the importance and beauty of a living soul, though we find it funny that you would assume only Homo Sapiens to possess one I find your comment on the Star Wars movie very funny. The whole Star Wars ideology stem from media about our, er, beliefs, not what we are actually about. To sum up Wicca, we are the young of our parents, listening to the wisdom of our elders whom listened to theirs. We worship no-one, but respect everything. We seek not to harm anything lest we be harmed. Even the science world understand the nature of Cause and Effect or 'What goes around comes around'. This is true of good or harmful deeds. We learn what the world has to offer us in health, rather than make our own synthetically. We learn to love and respect all living things and all people, including their beliefs. As for the story of the Romans, we have no Leaders and never have. Each 'parent' has the responsibility to pass on knowledge to their young. Our writings are our own and are usually personal, though we pass these down among ourselves, too. All writings were not destroyed, for much of our writings are not on paper, but within our minds. And as one lives their life, they are free to modify this information to suit the wisdom they have gained, for only a fool will believe implicitly without actually seeing or understanding. To dive headfirst into a belief or to simply believe something because it was told to you is to be in fear of that belief. We, on the other hand, push each other to understand and embrace the knowledge. This is why you must read about paganism and all religions or beliefs, because your God would not have his followers follow him in fear, but walk boldly to him with true knowledge in their hearts. By simply discreditting everything, you weaken yourself. This is why we Wiccan's extend our curiousity. We listen and learn before we discredit, and if we discredit, we don't forget, lest this disregard is in err. Do you think when Jesus said to you all that no man may go to your lord except through him, he meant it as a threat? Would he threaten? Then why go to him in fear? You must look to what he is saying, look around yourselves, see the world around you, then tell him you are following him because you see he is right! Jesus will love you for your true understanding and your true fellowship, not for following him because you fear the alternative. I respect you all for your belief and your conviction and understand you all. I would never write that you should look elsewhere, for this is not what I want. You follow my ways more closely than many, and even if you didn't, so long as you protect that which is good and pure, then I will agree and walk with you. Your Christianity is a good thing, so long as you do good yourself, for no religion is an excuse to do harm. In this we are equal and I can ask no more. So go be one with Jesus, but above all, be STRONG with him. Blessed be. ------------------ |
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GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: That was the entire point of my post. The current beliefs are a recent fabrication. It's been years but I researched the history of such beliefs and apparently the original form was stamped out due to its support of human sacrifice. Gardner came up with the current system in the 1940's and went public in 1954. If the beliefs were passed down from parent to child it "should" be easy to point to at least one person who has a unbroken lineage going back to BC and the time period of the Roman Empire. Problem is, scholars are still arguing over the mere identity over the person who supposedly taught Gardner. Yes, I comprehend Gardner claimed the people he learned from worked in secrecy...but that's like Joseph Smith oh-so-conveniantly losing the golden tablets and a bunch of other integral documents in a fire. No evidence or proof at all? Sorry, not for me. [This message has been edited by Gump (edited September 07, 2005).] |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
If you're looking for lineage, my great grandmother was a follower, though I've been told by my parents that she would have considered herself a 'follower of the old ways' which is how we often see it. My mothers mother, Irene, however was a Christian, but I only knew her after her senses had left her and she spent 8 hours of each day vacuuming the house from top to bottom Gardener is not the first to introduce Wicca, but one to voice it publicly. He coined many phrases and words that we cannot now take back, though he is right in saying that much of Wicca was secret, merely because our kind don't fancy offering their necks to the chopping block. If you ask most Wiccan followers, they will tell you that Gardenerian ways are quite diverse from our own and not entirely of the 'old ways'. As for human sacrifice? This is utter nonsense. Of couse, there are so called 'Pagan' followers who believe in evil rituals and the like, claiming the spilled human blood will empower their spells or somesuch, but these are people who wish to take some of our beliefs and make up their own. Many people whom have no understanding or religious background feel we harbour some secret to some great power, evil or otherwise, then feel they would like to weild it like many a greedy man. We have no power, though we talk about the power of the Universal Consiousness and the energy that is there and are misunderstood. All I need say is, how can a people whom for centuries believe in no harm even through good intentions, be responsible for human sacrifice? I would not tar 'regular' (generalising) Christians with the same brush as Latter Day Saints as I would not expect you to tar me and my fellow followers. Blessed be. Edit: Please also understand that all the evidence is around you. Just because man has not written it down does not mean it doesn't exist. How do you know god exists? Because another man has written it down? I think not. If you are following mans word, then you are lost, because you are not looking to yourself. Our ways are logical, even if you are Christian, for they follow kindness and respect. Many of my Christian friends follow many of the same belief's as I do, they just call it by another name. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 07, 2005).] |
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GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: Very well. Could you please point out a single piece of this evidence? Oh, and yes, human sacrifice is utter nonsense but that's what you find when you go far back enough in history...the beliefs have radically changed over time. |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
Gladly. For one, the human body can burn... Energy is the transference of energy, ie you can't 'create' energy and you can't 'destroy' energy, only change it's form. If the human body can burn, then it in itself is energy. In fact, everything contains energy. It is what the universe is made of. When you are born and while you live, you consume as well as release energy. Other objects, whether living or not can provide this energy to you, as well you can provide it for them. It's simple science as much as it is our belief (or at least one facet) Blessed be. ------------------ Wiccan Within yourself is the answer to all questions |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
quote: Hi Wiccan, Not only that but we have enternal king/priest in Jesus who will stand beside you and is waiting to hear your needs and conversate with you and answer your prayers. This a truth God has shown us through his word. I know you admire Jesus and the works and sayings of his by what you have said, so have faith that the rest of what he says is true as well. "Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven. But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven. Think not that I am come to send peace on earth: I came not to send peace, but a sword. For I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and the daughter against her mother, and the daughter in law against her mother in law. And a man's foes shall be they of his own household. He that loveth father or mother more than me is not worthy of me: and he that loveth son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. And he that taketh not his cross, and followeth after me, is not worthy of me. He that findeth his life shall lose it: and he that loseth his life for my sake shall find it. He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me." God is all POWERFULL and MERCIFUL, there is nothing we can in ourselves to improve or change this truth. We know how true this is from his word: "He that spared not his own Son, but delivered him up for us all, how shall he not with him also freely give us all things? Who shall lay any thing to the charge of God's elect? It is God that justifieth. Who is he that condemneth? It is Christ that died, yea rather, that is risen again, who is even at the right hand of God, who also maketh intercession for us. Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword? As it is written, For thy sake we are killed all the day long; we are accounted as sheep for the slaughter. Nay, in all these things we are more than conquerors through him that loved us. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord." We can't do it on own, even what we think is logical and wise is usually not. Look at how much we goof up trying to handle things logically. But God knows this: "Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, He taketh the wise in their own craftiness. And again, The Lord knoweth the thoughts of the wise, that they are vain." We are just men, we change our minds every day and have no way at knowing what is right without God's truth. Look at how many religions there are, look at how many different beliefs there are, even within the same religion (this goes for wicca as well as Christian denomination. But thankfully God gave us his word to show the truth to those would are wanting to really know it. And God is a loving God and yes, he wants us to love one another even when it doesn't seem the logical thing to do, we just have to have faith in him and his power, love and mercy he has made known to us: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust. For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same? And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so? Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. " So, if you believe in Jesus half the way, can you believe him the rest of the way? |
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GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
If anything, that is a good argument AGAINST Wicca since physical energy does not equate to the Wiccan concept of Universal Energy or the Elements like Fire you attempted to use in your example. The Elements are seen as forces, or as hidden qualities of energy, within the astral world/plane. Part of the problem is that since there isn't an agreed upon "standard" amongst most Wiccans the definitions will change per person. So I will attempt an overview: Wiccans claims that there exists a Universal Energy afloat everywhere and at all times. Every object in existence is made up of this energy. In essence, all objects are alive with this energy. This energy is the "Creative Energy". So then, this energy is the foundation and creativeness of the God and Goddess. Wiccans believe in a balance of female and male powers-hence two figures. In a Wiccan ritual's purest form, this Universal Energy (without gender or characteristics) is what is used or Worshipped. God and Goddess are the second purest form of this energy (with gender and human type characteristics). Many Wiccan will choose worshipping the God and Goddess and will ask for their help, rather than dealing directly with the creative energy, since the God and Goddess can more easily be related to. The third purest form of this Universal Energy is a second group of Gods and Goddesses. These Gods and Goddesses specialize in specific areas ... such as a Goddess for Love (Venus). For a good example of this second group of Gods and Goddesses, Wiccans often look to the Egyptian Pantheon of multiple Gods and Goddesses. Wiccans claim to tap into these energies. Witches learn from Earth, and sometimes Celestial objects (astrology), to open their bodies to absorb and reflect certain energies. By lighting a green candle, surrounding it with Malachite gemstones, and sprinkling some Cloves on their altars, they claim to share "money attraction energies" with these objects. Experienced Wiccans claim to be able to freely open "energy channels" without the aid of Earth-Based objects. Malachite and cloves are claimed to attract money acquiring energies. These money energies are just one part of the Universal Energy, and it is the money energy that creates the Malachite and Cloves. Rose Quartz gems and Lavendar, are created with a different energy, so their "powers" would be different. Wiccans ask the question of how to use this energy to create a desired effect. Very simply put, Wiccans claim to distinguish between diferent energies and tap into the energies that will create the outcome that they would like (tap your ruby slippers and wish for home...). For example, a person who wishes to have more money, should acquire some Malachite. So, Wiccan, does that overview match your own personal definitions? Given all that, how could anyone confuse that definition of energy with energy as defined by science? |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
let me ask you something wiccan, why don't you believe the words that Jesus spoke? i mean fully believe, such as when He said He was the Son of God? if He spoke the truth, then everything He said was the truth. what hinders you? one of the problems i have with your religion is it is open to interpretation(spelling?), if i can believe anything and basically live a good life than what's the point? why not commit many horrid acts, and then commit an equal amount of "good" acts so my energy/charma balance out? ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Wiccan Member Posts: 11 From: Bristol, England Registered: 09-06-2005 |
quote: This is untrue. First, we see no figures, in the way that you might see God. We use figures mentally in order to focus on what it is we are concentrating on. The problem with the human spirit or energy is the mind, for it is cluttered with stereotypes, visual images of the modern world and images of the physical. By using images that have a reference, we are better able to single out these energies. These can be self-healing energies, positive focus energies etc. You are right that we see two sides to our nature, both male and female. Everyone has this for we are different from male to female and yet the same. Seperating our energies into male and female is only a representation, however, for all energies are the same. A cube has many facets, a dodecahedran (spelling?) more. Energy, life, everything have many many facets, yet they belong to the same thing. This is why I have never understood Christian denominations... You strive to put a perspective across yet you are all one and the same... You are just looking at a different facet. Man cannot expect to see every facet, as man often does not even know where he is looking.
quote: This is also untrue. We do not worship, for we are a part of everything. To worship in our own terms would be to respect and give love to everything, as we are a part of everything and everything a part of ourselves. We are born of matter and we return to matter. It is a cycle as the day and the night are a cycle, and we respect it. That is all.
quote: This is a stereotype. It is true that Wiccans can use physical objects in there concentration on understanding specific events, for example, if you wanted to remember a loved one, a photo would better enable this, but we do not wield artifacts to wield power. This is a stereotype or misconception. If I were to use an item in a prayer (concentrating my efforts to aid something meaningful) then it would be to be able to better concentrate on this act. The idea's of personalities, ie Gods, allow this in some. Though we don't believe in these as actual persona's, just a representation. If a Wiccan were to use his or her mental energies to acquire money, even if not for her/himself, then they are not Wiccan, for a Wiccan would not wish to acquire money except through hard work and labour, lest this rob another of its use. Besides, money is a tool. Life and experience are far more valuable. I really think you are all getting the wrong idea, for you look to your own beliefs before you look AT ours. Also, there are too many who misunderstand true Wiccans that are too quick to write or talk about us, and this gives false understandings. Benny, the reason I do not follow Christianity is because I feel you, the majority, are following it incorrectly. There are so many denominations of Christianity, some claiming that only there denomination will go to heaven, and I feel not one of you understand what Jesus was about. True, I do not claim to understand him either, and I will not critisize, but there is much you must understand from a different perspective. Firstly, the bible was written by man, not God, not even Jesus. Secondly, you follow a book that is only a tiny proportion of the writings written on Gods behalf. The Vatican have a huge library though the compilers of the bible only deemed fit to allow people to read what it is you possess. Thirdly, the majority of Christians follow a translation of the bible Fourth, you are looking at the bible with modern eyes, not the eyes of one whom lived around the time the bible was written. Fifth, you forget what most people at the time of Jesus' time here on earth would have had as a capacity to understand, to fathom as man can fathom. We believe we understand much, though we are arrogant, for we understand little to nothing. We use our head when we should use our heart, our eyes, our nose, our hands, our ears or nothing at all. Sixth, if I choose to follow Jesus, then I will follow him, not the bible, or the men who wrote it, or the sixth/seventh/eight hand vision you all follow. If I choose to accept him as my way to enlightenment and a path to a greater being, then I will take all I have as a Wiccan as these are who I am. I do nothing that your bible tells me not to, any more than another, Christian or not. Though I choose not to follow, for I have met his followers and find them unfit. In all honesty, I do not like mankind, for man have no friends who are not of his own and man cannot be trusted, yet I do all I can for mankind all the same. Not because I am led to, but because we deserve every chance we can get. Life is bestowed upon us and we need to use it wisely, but foolishness is an infliction which we would all give up gladly if we could. As a Wiccan, I feel just. I become more enlightened, though I am not enlightened. I am a fool much like everyone else as our race are not lacking in these I have never doubted that Jesus existed, though many Wiccan's do. I have never doubted that he was the son of God, as your God is the greater conciousness of whom we are all a part and of which we all must return. Benny, you say why not commit horrid acts and then good acts to balance these out? Well, why don't I spend my life committing horrid acts, then at the last minute, give myself to Jesus? Wouldn't this be easier? One thing we all do to a fault is to put everything into a pidgeon hole. We strive to simplify everything, and that which we cannot simplify we enhance and make it a will of God. We must all forsake this pidgeon holing and forget all we think we know, for we truly know nothing. Only once a complete lack of knowledge is obtained can we begin to know anything. Edit: Please excuse the edits, but my brain works quicker than my fingers ------------------ Wiccan Within yourself is the answer to all questions [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 09, 2005).] [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 09, 2005).] [This message has been edited by Wiccan (edited September 09, 2005).] |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
"Fourth, you are looking at the bible with modern eyes, not the eyes of one whom lived around the time the bible was written." - wiccan how do you know how i study the word of God? as for repenting at the last minute, God has to be dealing with your heart. being sincere is a big part of it. i could say "i'm sorry" and be daydreaming about the sin i'm apologizing for...God knows our hearts. and you are right, mankind is unfit, of course what we(you and me) believe they are unfit for i'm sure are 2 very different things. i personally don't believe denominations matter, but it's following the Word of God, and having a personal relationship with Him. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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