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Ninja Linux Attack – steveth45

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
A long time ago, when I made Ninja Robot Attack, somebody, perhaps jokingly, asked me if I would do a Linux build of the game. I said yes. Well, nearly a year later, I've come through with my promise. Get the file here:

http://steveth45.net/NinjaRobotAttack_0.7_Linux.tar.gz

And here is a screenshot of the game running in Linux with Code::Blocks in the background:

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HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
w00t. Looks sweet, Steve.

Now if you get a Mac OSX build I'll be able to play it again.

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Coolness. I'll dl this for openSuse.
steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by HanClinto:
w00t. Looks sweet, Steve.
Now if you get a Mac OSX build I'll be able to play it again.

Yeah, unfortunately, I don't have access to a Mac... well my sister has an older G3-based IMac with, I think, OS 10.2, which would probably work, but I don't know if it came with XCode. If it did, it would probably not target the Intel processor. If I could pick up an older Mac and upgrade it to 10.4 or 10.5, it might work as a dev machine.

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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Steve,

Your 'little' project gave you a 'BIG' return. I think it will be really beneficial to write a postmortem on how your experience helped as you pursued a career in a gaming company. What got you beyond the talk and actually implementing something? Did you ever worry it was too basic? Not finished? What did you learn? How were you able to use the experience during interviews? Were you concerned with the company looking over your code?

I think a separate thread for this purpose will be helpful to others who may be interested in pursuing the same thing. Plus, I just think it will be cool to hear the background and your story.

Sorry, not to put you on the spot or anything. I just think your experience is pretty neat and can help encourage others.

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
SSQuared, good questions. here goes:

It's true, this little game, which, according to Code::Blocks' code statistics, contains only 518 lines of actual code was a major reason that I got a job as a Junior Programmer at a game studio.

I originally did the game so I could teach an "Intro to 3D game programming" workshop at the last CGDC. In doing that, I used a lot of standard C++ conventions like using std::vector containers and such. I also did it as a defense of C++, to show that you don't really need to worry about memory management if you design correctly. If you look at the code, there isn't a single new, malloc, delete, or free statement in the entire thing. STL can handle all your memory management for you. The Irrlicht engine took care of allocating and freeing memory for the models and meshes.

As it almost always is with teaching, the teacher learns more than the students. I learned a good deal about 3D game programming myself while making the game, including non-programming stuff like 3D modeling and texturing. The workshop itself went alright, it was 2 hours of me blabbing about C++ in a classroom. At least 4 or 5 people were actually sound asleep by the end of it.

Well, when I applied at Pipeworks, I had a description of the game as one of my projects that would apply to the job I was going for. They went ahead and downloaded the game from my webpage including the source code. When they called me in for the interview, they had the source code printed out and asked questions about it. I was a bit shocked, but I had fortunately spent enough time messing with it, so I was able to explain the algorithms clearly. I think they had me do that, to make sure I had written it myself and didn't just copy and paste stuff from the 'net. I had only spent about a year and a half as a software tester, claiming to have done some programming on the job. The thing about programming you do on the job is that you usually can't legally print it out and send it with an application, it is the intellectual property of the company you work for.

The RevX game I did for the CCN comp was also available on my webpage, but smartly, I hadn't posted the source code. That being a speed game, my code was all over the place. Toward the end of the project, I was just making all my variables global so it would "work". Ninja Robot Attack, I had taken the time to clean up and refactor a bit, even though there is too much game logic stuffed into the game loop itself, instead of hidden behind function calls.

So, the code was a big plus in the interviews. Another thing was that I accurately described my programming knowledge and skills on the application without any puff, so I wasn't caught off guard with a question about something I had on my application that I didn't really know. In other words, don't puff yourselves up. If you can't write a decently complicated SQL query on the fly, then don't list yourself as a database expert.

Since it was a Junior position I was applying for, the fact that I had a decent math background was barely enough, but what would have helped immensely, is if I had known all there is to know about the following things:
2d and 3d vector math, especially dot products and cross products
matrix math, mostly rotational matrices
quaternions, what they are, how they work
physics equations: friction, acceleration, the ability to synthesize and integrate them

I was fairly ignorant in many of those areas, almost enough to "break" the deal, so to speak. I convinced them that because I had taken many math classes throughout high school and college, that I would be able to pick up these concepts fairly quickly. Fortunately, that turned out to be true. That's where this game came in real handy. For the game, I figured out a couple things about 3D math that I hadn't known before. For example, I came up with some equations to calculate the "pan" value of a sound, given it's coordinates relative to the player, and the direction the player is facing. Having done that, showed my willingness and ability to tackle the mathematical side of things. Also, the bounding boxes that Irrlicht was supposed to be generating for the models were obviously wrong, so I had to write my own code to calculate a simple, axis aligned bounding box.

During the interviews, I had to write several pieces of code, in any language I chose, so it's worth your time to memorize the important syntax in C or C++ for doing things like manipulating strings, making your own linked list implementations, sorting (simple is fine, like bubble sort), and whatever other textbook algorithm they may throw at you. This is where writing code on paper is actually a good exercise, because most of these were on paper, on not on a computer. Fortunately, they were more interested in the algorithms than the syntax, so there was some grace there.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
that is really cool dude what game studio do you work at?

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
that is really cool dude what game studio do you work at?


Pipeworks

http://pipeworks.com/

I'm working on Godzilla: Unleashed. I recently pitched "Ninja Robots: Unleashed" to the studio producers, but they thought I was just joking around.

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Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Were they wrong, Steve?
zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
don't worry man keep workin' on your idea and eventually it will see bigger releases---still very cool that you are working with a studio tho man!

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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Well, I think NR:U is a terrific idea! And could make a great movie starring Will Smith.

Steve, that's an amazing story. I really like hearing it because everything just sort of fell in place. From working on Ninja Robot, to RevX, they really gave you great experience and perspective. So Pipeworks looked at your Ninja code without even telling you? Did you do a big GULP when they started asking about it?

Steve makes an extremely important point. It is a really good idea to have your own personal portfolio of projects. This seems to be more important for game and web-based jobs. I have found it less important for application development. Nevertheless, it's always good to have your own personal examples ready for sharing. On-the-job projects/code can't be shared outside the company.

From your experience, it seems like math skills are quite important to get into the game development field.

> I had only spent about a year and a half as a software tester,
> claiming to have done some programming on the job.

This sounds like you were stretching the truth or stating something which is not true. You did a LOT of programming and debugging, from fixing bugs, to implementing new features and dialogs, to a big installer update, and using C, C++, C# and Java. You also experienced the wonder of Incredibuild.

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by SSquared:
So Pipeworks looked at your Ninja code without even telling you? Did you do a big GULP when they started asking about it?

Well, I knew that the source code was available and that they might look at it. I was surprised to see it printed out when I got to the interview, that's all. Since I listed it on the application with a reference to my webpage, I figured it was fair game. Fortunately, they didn't nitpick the code. They mostly wanted to see my process, and how I constructed the program, so I just explained some the data structures, pointed out the game loop and explained some of the processing. I actually enjoyed that part of the interview, since I had the opportunity to show them what I could do.

As far the big GULP, that happened when they asked me complicated 3D math and physics questions that I couldn't answer. I was given a fairly complicated physics problem, where I would have had to do a little calculus on the spot to solve. I stared at the problem in silence for about 3 minutes, made some sketches and realized that I wasn't going to be able to answer it. Finally I said, "I don't know how to solve this, but given this problem to solve in the creation of a game, I could probably look it up, and I know enough math to implement a solution that way." I was asked questions along a whole range of difficulties, and they told me later that they were just seeing where I was at. I didn't need to be a super math genius to get the job, but if I had been, they would have discovered that during the process of the interview.

I don't know if I mentioned this, but I had a first and a second interview that totaled about 7 hours of interview time. Each one was split into smaller interviews with one or two people at a time. So, it was a grueling experience at times. It was definitely the most comprehensive interview process I've ever experienced. That's why it was important to be accurate on the application, because one way or another they figured out pretty well what my abilities were.

Here's a tip on resumes, if you google for software developer resumes, you get a bunch of poorly constructed resumes, even the "example" resumes stink. However, I found one that is actually great, and that's the format of the resume I used to get my first job doing software testing:

http://www.resume-resource.com/extec1.html

Most resumes jump into work experience, but this one takes up most of the front page with two sections: Summary Of Qualifications and Technical Expertise in large, bold, classical lettering, centered on the page. Under each of these is a bulleted or labeled list of skills/qualifications. This way, you give the person reading the resume a clear idea of your skill set before they see the (possible lack of) Work Experience and Education. The very last thing you want to do, is use Word's resume template. It's ugly. I've been in a position at a job a few years ago to look over resumes, and nothing is more tedious than looking at yet another MS Word template resume. Also, as much as you may want to, don't put your high school GPA on the resume.

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Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
So what did you do when you first game on board to the company? How was far was Godzilla when you started on it with the team? And how do they usually give you work? (like do they say "here program this animation? or fix this problem?")

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by LAVA:
So what did you do when you first game on board to the company? How was far was Godzilla when you started on it with the team? And how do they usually give you work? (like do they say "here program this animation? or fix this problem?")

Pipeworks has developed there own game engine called Spigot, that has a built in scripting language and some other tools. I spent some time getting familiar with the everything. They gave me a series of inconsequential tasks, more like exercises, that forced me to figure things out. After a few days of that, they started giving me small tasks relating to Godzilla. At first, the code I was checking in was heavily reviewed, and I got some pointers on coding practices and such. I got pretty comfortable with things, but as I finished each task, without fail I was given something bigger and more complicated. Each time, it was like, "So, do you think you can handle this?" I'd say, "sure!" and then think "what have I got myself into?" Google came in handy for formulas and things. On a console, processor cycles are important to watch, so I learned pretty quickly how to use dot products and other tricks to avoid much more expensive trigonometric functions. There's no incentive to learn better than having your job depend on it.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
dude that is insanely cool what consoles were you working on? We are hoping to begin console development soon and there is one proggy on my team I know is on CCN (Spade) and another that I think is (Matty). But either way man that is cool of ya---plus to work with Godzilla must rock a lot LOL--is that game being released in Japan? LOL Lava has changed sig and avatar again!

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited February 08, 2007).]

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
I can't agree more with what Steve mentioned regarding the resume. I have gone through several classes on resumes and changed mine to list some top qualifications in summary form at the top. Since moving to that format three years ago, I believe I have had a 100% callback rate. Meaning, I at least got an interview over the phone.

I have also had recruiters mention how effective my resume appears.

The reasoning is, people don't have time to peruse through your resume and pick out little pieces here and there. They want a quick summary and overview. "Does the person have the qualifications I'm looking for?" Also, many companies have an HR person looking for keywords. It just becomes much easier to see everything right up front.

Dude! Keep up that 'can do' attitude. I can totally relate to asking myself "what have I got myself into?" But my attitude has been noticed and has come back positively on my reviews. In my cases, it's usually something like this.

Manager: "We just won't be able to get this feature into the next release. There's not enough time."

Me: "I can get it done. It won't take as long as you think."

Me a few minutes later: "Uh-oh. I really hope I can get this done in time."

I will definitely pick those times where I truly feel it can get done in time. Usually, someone overestimated to begin with due to a lack of understanding as to what it will take to implement.

Wow! It just sounds like you are really learning a lot! That is so great.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by steveth45:
A long time ago, when I made Ninja Robot Attack, somebody, perhaps jokingly, asked me if I would do a Linux build of the game. I said yes. Well, nearly a year later, I've come through with my promise

I congragulate you on the Linux build and the addicting game! I survived Wave 5 with only 5 health. Is there a chance I could look at the source code?

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Blog (about programming and hacker /geek related things I've been doing)

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:
I congragulate you on the Linux build and the addicting game! I survived Wave 5 with only 5 health. Is there a chance I could look at the source code?

Thanks, I'll zip up the source and post it later today or tonight.

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
Here's a link the the linux source code and project files for Code::Blocks. Read the BUILD_NOTES.txt file.

http://steveth45.net/NinjaRobotAttack_0.7_Linux_src.tar.gz

Please email me if you have any trouble building this or have any questions about the source code. All that's different from the Windows version is that it runs windowed by default, and all the meshes and textures are packed into a zip file, that Irrlicht reads in from directly. Irrlicht is pretty awesome for cross-platform compatibility. Irrlicht version 1.2 is the first version that I didn't have to patch to get my game to work properly, so kudos to them, they finally put all those helpful patches (bug fixes) on the internet into the official source.

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Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
LOL Lava has changed sig and avatar again!


Haha yeah, I am always trying to reivent myself, and this is my last experimentation with this look.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited February 08, 2007).]

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
hey thats cool. if i was running linux i'd download it.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
hey thats cool. if i was running linux i'd download it.

There is a version for Windows:

http://steveth45.net/NinjaRobotAttack_0_5.zip

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Cohort X

Member

Posts: 126
From: The Great Pacific Northwest
Registered: 09-16-2006
Do you have a victory scenario in it yet?

And congratz on unshackling yourself the the corporate software empire.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Sweet!
steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Cohort X:
Do you have a victory scenario in it yet?

Sure, kill all the ninja robots. If you can

Not really, they just keep coming. Just see what level you can get to.

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Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Installed it, ran it, got ./NinjaRobotAttack: symbol lookup error: ./NinjaRobotAttack: undefined symbol: glXGetProcAddress

error: My Geforce 2 MX/MX400 just ain't good enough (though correct me if I'm wrong). Well, at least it loaded the engine all right. Thanks for the fun. From the posts up above it sounds like a cool game.

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
*WARNING: DUMB QUESTION*

Ive never used a mac before, but how much would you have to change to make the game run on one? I dont realy know how that sort of thing works, but Mac OS-X and Linux are both Unix systems..

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
Valkyri, your video card is certainly good enough for this game. I've tested it before on this exact card and it ran quite well. The problem is that your NVidia drivers are old, at least older than April 7, 2006. That's when NVidia decided to finally add GLX 1.4 support. If you install the latest drivers, it should work fine.

Goop, it's not a dumb question. Irrlicht has been tweaked to compile and run on OS X. Since OS X apps are built with GCC, the same compiler that comes with Linux, it is possible to set up a cross-compiler on Linux that will allow me to build Mac apps, but I wouldn't know how to test the binaries. If I were to receive a donated Mac, I'd port it in a second .

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Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Steveth, I did: NVIDIA-Linux-x86-1.0-7184-pkg1.run

The problem is my X server. It's 7.0 not 7.1; there are several options that you have to enable in the xorg.conf file for it to work. Problem is this X server doesn't know these problems Short of compiling the 7.1 server there's not much I can do. (correct me if I'm wrong) I must admit that compiling one is not something I have the experience to do. If you like I can post the xorg.conf file with the options that I was forced to comment out. They made it very unstable. If you can tell me how to compile please do, if you think I'm right on this. And thanks! I running Kubuntu 6.06 LTS on an ASUS A7S333 motherboard if that helps.
God Bless!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by valkyri:

The problem is my X server. It's 7.0 not 7.1;

Well, that's lame. It looks like the Kubuntu project is gearing up for another major release. I'd wait for that, or even download the beta Kubuntu 7.04. Until then, I commented out the reference to glXGetProcAddress in Irrlicht, and recompiled Irrlicht and my game. The binary is here, just copy it over the other one:

http://steveth45.net/NinjaRobotAttack_ARB_bin.tar.gz

I hope thats the only problem with that version of Xorg. I feel that Ubuntu/Kubuntu is a somewhat stilted Linux distro. For example, by default, you can't even login as root in a terminal. Here is one explanation:

"Even if u are not connected to the internet therez a big chance that u might screw up some files unknowingly (by deleting or editing them)which u wudnt be able to do otherwise if u are not logged in as root" (sic)

It is a very strange philosophy of safety over functionality.

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[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited February 10, 2007).]

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Thanks! They have just recently come out with Ubuntu/Kubuntu Edgy which has the 7.1 server. It's just that my hardware is so old, but don't worry I will definately be upgrading in the future. Believe it or not It's been quite fun working with it. As to the root login, all you have to do is sudo su and enter a password and that's it. Personally, I like it that way since it's more secure. I have mainly focused on security and what not in my time so far with Linux. I want to learn how to admin. If you like I can pm you the address to my server. Once again thanks! God Bless!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Alas!

Irrlicht Engine version 1.2
Linux 2.6.15-27-k7 #1 SMP PREEMPT Fri Dec 8 18:22:01 UTC 2006 i686
Using renderer: OpenGL 1.5.3
GeForce2 MX/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL driver version is 1.2 or better.
./NinjaRobotAttack: symbol lookup error: ./NinjaRobotAttack: undefined symbol: glXGetProcAddress

cries

The world moves on
Well, thanks for trying
God Bless!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by steveth45:
"Even if u are not connected to the internet therez a big chance that u might screw up some files unknowingly (by deleting or editing them)which u wudnt be able to do otherwise if u are not logged in as root"

I knew there was a somewhat unprofessional feel to Kubuntu..

I was able to set Konsole to use a root terminal by default, although I dont remember how. Well Ill be checking out Debian now anyway, because my DVD burner wont work. I was planning to burn Edgy to DVD, but I keep having troubles with it.

Wait.. if I cant use my burner..

Crap.

Actualy I do have a few CD burners laying around.. Ill have to see if its definitely the burner, and not something else.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by goop2 (edited February 11, 2007).]

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
edit the /etc/kde3/kdm/kdmrc file and change the Allowrootlogin value to true. Word of caution. In the past when I did this with ubuntu it was ok.. Well for the most part, but it was good enough. With kde you really got to use kdesu! Or else.....

But hey that's the fun of learning good ol' black and white command line right? cmatrix

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Well even if you get frustrated with it just remember this:

When explorer crashes you have to reboot.
When something happens to KDE you have to hit f2 and type 'kicker'

Which is faster/easier?

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by goop2:
Well even if you get frustrated with it just remember this:

When explorer crashes you have to reboot.


Really? I just hit Ctrl-Alt-Del and start it again from the run command window.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Ok well uh..

ctrl-alt-del takes 3 fingers in a somewhat uncomfortable position.
alt-f2 takes two fingers =P

Guess I know more about Linux than windows now eh? xD

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by goop2 (edited February 11, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by goop2 (edited February 12, 2007).]

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Valkyri:
Alas!

./NinjaRobotAttack: symbol lookup error: ./NinjaRobotAttack: undefined symbol: glXGetProcAddress


When I rebuilt Irrlicht that time, I don't think I properly removed all references to glXGetProcAddress. So, if you are still willing to try it out, here is a new build. It has the same name, but it's not the same file as before (make sure you delete the old one, first):

http://steveth45.net/NinjaRobotAttack_ARB_bin.tar.gz

I'm curious to see if I can actually get this to work right, thanks.

The new binary should be time stamped 02/11/07 9:43 pm .

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[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited February 12, 2007).]

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
I double checked the timestamp, which did check out. I hate to say it but:

Irrlicht Engine version 1.2
Linux 2.6.15-28-k7 #1 SMP PREEMPT Thu Feb 1 16:36:09 UTC 2007 i686
Using renderer: OpenGL 1.5.3
GeForce2 MX/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!: NVIDIA Corporation
OpenGL driver version is 1.2 or better.
./NinjaRobotAttack: symbol lookup error: ./NinjaRobotAttack: undefined symbol: glXGetProcAddress


Thx for trying though.
I'd still be happy to help you out if you like when it comes to testing.
I'm afraid I'm not much of a programmer...
here are specs:

OpenGL ver. 1.5.3 NVIDIA 71.74
Renderer: GeForce2 MX/AGP/SSE/3DNOW!
Kubuntu 6.06 LTS
X server version 7.0 (X11)
Kernel: vmlinuz-2.6.15-28-k7
KDE 3.5.?
Let me know if you need more thorough specs.
God Bless!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
hey! I just downloaded the Linux version (I am using Yellow Dog Linux for PS3 and I am very new to it)---I extracted everything to one folder but, when I click on what I think the launching file is supposed to be, nothing happens---how do I get it to work? I hope to try the windows version soon

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goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Theres a run command.. Unfortunately I tend to forget what it is :\

I know its 2 letters! try.. cc? That would be:

cd [file directory]
cc [filename]

come to think of it.. it isnt cc. I dont remember what it is though

btw, how is the ps3? Would you consider it a good alternative to a pc? (quality, performance, and price)

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
hey! I just downloaded the Linux version (I am using Yellow Dog Linux for PS3 and I am very new to it)---I extracted everything to one folder but, when I click on what I think the launching file is supposed to be, nothing happens---how do I get it to work? I hope to try the windows version soon


I noticed that clicking on the file, doesn't work, that's because it has to be run from the directory that it is in, so it can find the files it needs. Basically, open up a terminal, get into the directory ( cd NinjaRobotAttack ) and then run the executable from there ( ./NinjaRobotAttack ). Or, if you make a link from a menu or the desktop, make sure that the "work path" or "working directory" is the same folder as the game itself. Running the program from a terminal is the best because you can see if there are any errors. Also, you should see if other OpenGL accelerated games run on your Linux distro.

Val, thanks for trying again. Sorry it doesn't work for you.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
LOL I will give it a try--although I am very new to this so I am kind of confused (not on my PS3 right now to try it--will do so later today)---with PS3 as a PC---it is very cool and very nice! The PS3 in general is WAY more than worth it for the 600 dollar model (DON'T get the 500 dollar one--you get more than 100 bucks worth of upgrades on the 60 gig) and to get linux for it was something like 50-100 bucks depending on if you want support or not--the site for that is www.terrasoftsolutions.com ---even without linux though you can surf the net and play with media and such----plus Resistance on it is amazing LOL---I have spent more hours playing that online (40 person deathmatches rock!) than any other game----if you end up getting one my username is Zookey on the PSN (PlayStation Network)---also btw most USB stuff works with the PS3---I just hooked up a wireless mouse and keyboard and it worked no sweat--even without linux I can also move around the net and the XMB (the PS3's OS) with those ---oh yeah last note: if you get one DON'T get a BlueTooth headset--they work but I bought a Jabra one and it kept on thinking that, if I didn't chat for a while, that I must have been on a call or something then it would disconnect and I couldn't chat any more----kept fighting with it until I sold it to a dude at the local GameStop and bought a 10 dollar USB headset from RadioShack---cheaper, less advanced techy wise but works way better

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goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Im thinking of getting one.. And no, I would never get the cheap one. Going cheap is never a good idea. And thanks for the link! I didnt know there was actually a distro that specifically ran on the ps3.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
no prob dude they built that version of Linux using drivers given to them by Sony---so it is the only actual flavor authorized by Sony although, from what I have read, others will work too---you will have to get a bootloader (when you buy Linux from Terra Soft they tell you how to get it) and put it either on a blank CD, USB thumb drive or a memory card (SD, CF, or MS---they all fit into the 60 GB version) and install that first then Yellow Dog--it is a lot of fun though on top of all the PS3 stuff--I actually have a PS3 game called MotorStorm reserved that comes out next month I can't wait--you use one of the triggers for the gas and then you just tilt the controller to steer----I downloaded the demo (you can get demos and movie trailers for free in the PlayStation store) and we have a blast goofing off with it---LOL you can blow up your vehicles very realistically and so I ram the supports that hold the finish line up on the last lap so I have this big dramatic finish (in crashes you automatically go into bullet time) of my driver dude face planting it into a steel support hehe.

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
to get linux for it was something like 50-100 bucks depending on if you want support or not--the site for that is www.terrasoftsolutions.com

This bothered me quite a bit that they are only selling the DVD's for it, and not providing a free download. Of course, it's mostly GPL'ed software, so that would be illegal. There's no problem with selling support or even a nominal fee for DVD's, but they can't have a $50 minimum price on free software. I discovered that they do have it available as a free download to stay legal, though they don't advertise this fact at all (for obvious reasons, they like to make money on software they only wrote .0001% of). Get it for free here: ftp://mirror.mcs.anl.gov/pub/yellowdog/iso/yellowdog-5.0-phoenix-20061208-PS3.iso
. It is also available through various torrents. This download is very legit. What Yellow Dog does is provide downloads of the latest version to paying customers, and then puts it on public servers like this one a couple weeks later to avoid getting their pants sued off by 100,000 angry open source contributors.

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goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
"pants sued off"
HAHA, makes me think of sewing actualy, but that would be better "pants sewn on"

MotorStorm is only for PS3? Now I HAVE to get one!
And thanks for that link steve, it saves me 50 bucks =D

Not sure when Ill get one.. Soon I hope! I have plenty of reasons to get one..

PS2 is in need of repair and wont play PS1 games anymore
PS3 running Linux is actually a computer
MotorStorm is for PS3

Now I just need to get $600

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 14, 2007).]

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
LOL yep--don't forget you can play PS1 and 2 games on PS3 as well---you don't even need the old memory cards anymore (you just create virtual ones on the PS3's hard drive and it fools the game into working with it)---sorry on forgetting to mention that they made YDL available for free---I knew they planned to do so but I didn't know they already did or what the public mirror was---LOL that stems from my newness to Linux hehe if they want to slap it on a DVD and make it slightly easier (or maybe I should say less threatening) for me I will jump at it LOL---to say the least I had to broaden my PC understanding as is with all the talk of 'bootloaders' and all that kind of stuff---been fun though and I definately see where people hold Linux over Windows (especially Vista)---BTW if you end up buying a PS3 and need the bootloader let me know and I will try to find where i have that file--when you get YDL it should come with a readme or something that tells you the specific part of Sony's site you can get it on but still, since I have it somewhere might as well share it I think it would work--if I remember correctly I loaded it on a SD card and popped it in the reader--you have to copy it to the PS3 first before installing Linux--from there though it is pretty standard and painless.


BTW yeah MotorStorm looks awesome--I can't wait I am counting down the days for it (I have it reserved)---don't forget about other exclusives like Resistance tho--that game is amazing Also FF13 looks sweet--there is like 7 games or so that I want coming out this year (not FF13 tho) which is more than I can ever remember for one year--although some like FEAR and Unreal Tournament 3 are multi-system I still can't wait for them hehe!

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited February 15, 2007).]

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
LOL yep--don't forget you can play PS1 and 2 games on PS3 as well---you don't even need the old memory cards anymore (you just create virtual ones on the PS3's hard drive and it fools the game into working with it)

I've been sort of anti-PS3, but the ability to run Linux on it is really nice. It would make more sense if I had a HD TV, so I could actually read small text on the screen. Assuming Linux takes full advantage of all the processors, it is a more powerful workstation than you could buy for several times the price. The shortcoming there is the 256 MB of RAM. There may be a way to access some of the 256 MB of VRAM.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
There probably is, with the YDL comes some sort of programming kit that supposidly helps proggys make PS3 linux apps that take full advantage of the console--I am not a proggy (only a game designer/entrepenuer) so I don't dare mess with those for fear of catastrophic screw up LOL. I used to be kinda into the fanboy thing--actually I used to be really (I mean REALLY) anti-Xbox---although I realized over time that, if you throw that aside, then you can enjoy a lot more games hehe----although right now I am XBOX360-less (used to have one, traded it in--my bro has one though) but I have a Wii and PS3----love them both a lot but my PS3 gets used a lot more--there isn't any games on Wii right now that work for me (my bro has Zelda TP for it, but I am not a Zelda person--still one heck of a lauch title tho) although I am looking forward to both Super Paper Mario and Smash Bros Brawl (not to mention the Godzilla game--have to at least rent it now that I know someone who has worked on it )---I really wish RedSteel lived up to its' hype, I about cried when I found out how much that game sucked (especially in the controls, Call Of Duty 3 maybe less than appealing on the Wii but atleast it showed the Wii was still a first person shooter powerhouse!)---really torched me that a lot of the ads they showed for RedSteel showed high quality maps with bump mapping and lighting effects and, once you play the game, most of it looks like something inbetween N64 and PS2 in quality, usually more towards N64----LOL actually once we opened our studio here and people found out about us some people introduced to us a guy that is from our city but now lives in California--he owns his own animation studio now but he used to work for a 3D ad agency that did a lot of advertising for game publishers. He said that they had a '70% rule' which meant that, when they were making an ad for the game, they would up the quality of the game's assets by atleast 70% (he said it was more realistic to say 270%) for the commercial, and he eventually quit because he had a hard time wrestling with the ethics of it---actually Activision was sued in Europe last year if memory serves me right for something along those lines---a consumer group said that ads for CoD2 for the 360 were only FMVs that were specially made for the ads (not FMVs found within the game itself) and were so much higher quality than the game itself that they were misleading. LOL kind of a side rant but still interesting---BTW man since you are working on the Wii--did you guys use any middleware or is there really any (I would think that, at least in theory, Unreal 2 and Source should work on the Wii but that is actually what I was wondering--do any middleware makers actually support the Wii?)

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steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
BTW man since you are working on the Wii--did you guys use any middleware or is there really any (I would think that, at least in theory, Unreal 2 and Source should work on the Wii but that is actually what I was wondering--do any middleware makers actually support the Wii?)

I can't tell you much about what we do, but I know that Havoc is supported on the Wii. Also, there is LiveMove, which is designed to help developers deal with the controllers. Internally, the Wii is very similar to GameCube (but faster, more RAM), so there's no reason that GameCube compatible middleware wouldn't work in the Wii. We have already made games on the GC, so our "Spigot" engine didn't need a whole lot of changes to work. The new Unreal engine is all about taking advantage of very high end rendering hardware, like the PS3, 360 and high end gaming PC's. So, there wouldn't really be much point in porting it to the Wii, since the capabilities are not there.

That said, I am really impressed with what the Wii is capable of. It has been said that it has "last generation" graphics. That's not entirely accurate. It is more powerful than the last generation's best system: the XBOX. When I finally buy my own, the first games I'm going to buy are all the GameCube-only games I always wanted but could never play on XBOX or PS2.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Yeah I agree that the Wii's full potential hasn't been shown, I still love my PS3 way much more, but I think it is unfair to judge the Wii based on currently released games, not only because of the whole 'launch game' thing but also it just doesn't look to me like anyone made a launch title was that into the quality thing except the Zelda developers---I think RedSteel could have looked like PerfectDark 0 for the 360 or at least close (from my understanding, didn't PD0 use only like 1/3rd of the 360's resources?) LOL I play mostly (read: right now mostly means only) gamecube games on my Wii right now--tore almost all the way through Smash Bros Melee again---on mine there is only 30 challenges and I could have sworn there was like 60-90, but I haven't unlocked all the characters yet so that might be holding the other ones off from being playable...

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