I kind of have to agree with their views on this in the sense of LB seems to promote violence against non-believers and pop/rock stars---what is even worse is when non-believers and pop/rock stars hear this and think that all Christians hate them--thus building a wall between them and Jesus,

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Yes, I'm still better than you
Soterion Studios

Why did it have to totally freeze up my computer so I had to do a cold reboot? Why is there so much pain in this world?

Anyway, I'm not even sure about their theology(the Anti-Christ, one world government, the rapture, etc.).

Seems a shame that one of the first well funded Christian games would turn out this way.

Altogether the demo just didn't hold my attention.

I do however agree with ArchAngel the music wasn't bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
Seems a shame that one of the first well funded Christian games would turn out this way.

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Yes, in fact I think they should've had more funding for the game, and it woud've been kicked up a notch graphically (after all they had the funding, they've sold alot of books and if you look at the box you would expect more), but the concepts and gameplay would still be there.

Out of all the moving forward in Christian Game Dev (slow, but we're still getting there), we took a hit, in my opinion.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited November 29, 2006).]

Firewall. somehow the brilliant programmers at LB games decided to forgo any check for a firewall or allow atleast let windows allow you to turn it off. No, they just couldn't allow you to to tab out of the screen. Somebody should tell them just because God should always have the focus of our hearts and mind doesn't mean a "God" game has to take the focus of windows.

anyhow, it ran atrociously slow on my machine, despite the fact I've played much more graphically intense mmorpgs more smoothly.

and what's with the "live" ads? I understand funding, but it's ridiculous.
what's that term we use? oh, yeah. selling out.
I say this with HL2, a single player should NOT need an internet connection to play. If I wanted to play a single player game, on a canoe, in the middle of the pacific ocean, I should be able to. I should not be bothered with connecting to a network.

now, on to the concepts.
stay away from the evil musicians or they will sway you with their guitar music? please.

less games like this, more games like Nightmares and Ominious Horizons.
(and Axys Adventures and Catechumen and so on and so forth)

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Yes, I'm still better than you
Soterion Studios

I year or so ago I linked a review of Christian game by Adam Sessler of X-Play. The game, he said, was horrible - but he also said he didn't understand why so many of the "Christian" games just suck, since there is really alot to work with.

As many of you know, I feel that the goal should be "games made by Christians", not "games made for Christians."
It will take quite a bit to climb back out of the "evil rock music/convert everyone around you or kill them" hole.

Does anybody remember the Old Testament? At all? If you're not theologically opposed to portraying parts of the Bible, then its a great source for material.

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From what Mack has told me Cheryl of CCGR is doing a thorough review. Unless the game improves drastically from what she's played so far it'll be scoring low.

[This message has been edited by Gump (edited November 29, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:



As many of you know, I feel that the goal should be "games made by Christians", not "games made for Christians."


Does anybody remember the Old Testament? At all? If you're not theologically opposed to portraying parts of the Bible, then its a great source for material.

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Personally I'm fed up with the constant flaming of anything LB be it book or game, gets really irritating to hear on every single Christian message board, but I guess peeps need something to gripe about.. though this has been going on for years. They should have kept to the story of the books with the game (which were great!), at least I'd be more willing to say positive things about the game at least... oh well.

i couldn't even get that stupid demo to work.

oh. firewall? hmm... k. but I still don't want to play it..

Laz, you don't agree with some of their theology? I do. just about all of it.

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that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

Treating "Christians" like an exploitable market won't do any good. I'm sure you care about my opinion as little as I car for yours, but I am stubbornly opposed to "Christian Products". Christian bookstores, Christian music, Christian key chains.

Does anyone think its too much like money changers in the temple?

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quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:
I don't care what you're in favor of, or the intention of the developers. It doesn't change the fact that most "gamers" wouldn't touch this game. I'm not bashing it because it's pat of the Left Behind franchise, I'm bashing it because its Christian.

Treating "Christians" like an exploitable market won't do any good. I'm sure you care about my opinion as little as I car for yours, but I am stubbornly opposed to "Christian Products". Christian bookstores, Christian music, Christian key chains.

Does anyone think its too much like money changers in the temple?

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So it does not matter whether or not the game was good or bad, the point is that it's a Christian game so it's no good to start with. There should be no Christian games, books, movies, bumper stickers, keyrings... ok fair enough, what do you say we should replace these things with? It's inevitable that if you take something away, it will certainly be replaced by something, but what?

As for the money changers in the temple, I encourage you to study that some day, it was so unfair what they were doing to people that just wanted to find fellowship with God... you have a bible, right? Absolutely does not apply to what you are trying to say, so worth a real study I'm certain.

That being said, I'll move on. It's not fair for a person to be told that if they let their kids watch this or that, they're "in rebellion and need to repent." It's Religion controlling individuals, and it is just as bad as the greedy exploiting the poor.

As far as replacing the "Christian" stuff, I advocate moral alternatives to undesirable media. If you don't like games with graphic violence and gore, play racing games or something. There is no need to make games that cater to one self-alienating crowd.

I'm not saying a game with Christian content is bad. I would love to see a good one. The problem lies in games "for Christians". Either you are evangelistic and want to make games with a Christian message, or you believe in a personal relationship with God and play "secular" games that don't conflict with your moral values. There is no room for feeding this growing isolationist "Christian" culture.

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited December 01, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:
I havn't touched a Bible in a very long time, though I used to have one to keep the dust off my desk.

That being said, I'll move on. It's not fair for a person to be told that if they let their kids watch this or that, they're "in rebellion and need to repent." It's Religion controlling individuals, and it is just as bad as the greedy exploiting the poor.

As far as replacing the "Christian" stuff, I advocate moral alternatives to undesirable media. If you don't like games with graphic violence and gore, play racing games or something. There is no need to make games that cater to one self-alienating crowd.

I'm not saying a game with Christian content is bad. I would love to see a good one. The problem lies in games "for Christians". Either you are evangelistic and want to make games with a Christian message, or you believe in a personal relationship with God and play "secular" games that don't conflict with your moral values. There is no room for feeding this growing isolationist "Christian" culture.

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Well that makes sense, you say that Christians should be happy to be involved in secular things and you walk that walk. You must be happy with the things of this world then, lots of people are, I'm not railing on you about it. The thing is, for Christians, we get this driving hunger to surround ourselves with things about God. Just like a race car driver eats, drinks and sleeps racing all the time, that is often how Christians experience the Christian life for themselves. This may be with Christian books, music, games, work and a host of other things including to be in prayer all day long. Sorry to hear that you have no place for the bible in your life, for some that is all they have in this world.

I'm really not sure what you are referring to with religion controlling people, there certainly is freedom in Christ, I don't think anyone is trying to “control” your life by releasing a game for people to play if they choose to do so... or making a key ring for that matter. As far as I know, no one on earth is controlling me, nor could they since I'm a pretty independent person. Lot's of excuses out there I guess though.

I said Religion controls individuals, not Christ. Do not assume I'm an ignorant heathen because I view things differently.

I agree with you though. It completely escaped my thought process that anyone would want to be surrounded by "Christian" merchandise. There have been times in my life when all I cared about was one thing and I thought about it all the time, so I can relate. I've got nothing further to say on this subject. I feel the same way I did earlier, but you've gotten it to a point where I'll be a hypocrite if I continue trying to prove my point.

"Sorry to hear that you have no place for the bible in your life"
Oh don't worry, I don't want your pity.

Ugh. I love becoming the embodiment of stereotypes I hate so much. </sarcasm>

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[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited December 01, 2006).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:
I havn't touched a Bible in a very long time, though I used to have one to keep the dust off my desk.

That being said, I'll move on. It's not fair for a person to be told that if they let their kids watch this or that, they're "in rebellion and need to repent." It's Religion controlling individuals, and it is just as bad as the greedy exploiting the poor.

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quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:

As far as replacing the "Christian" stuff, I advocate moral alternatives to undesirable media. If you don't like games with graphic violence and gore, play racing games or something. There is no need to make games that cater to one self-alienating crowd.

I'm not saying a game with Christian content is bad. I would love to see a good one. The problem lies in games "for Christians". Either you are evangelistic and want to make games with a Christian message, or you believe in a personal relationship with God and play "secular" games that don't conflict with your moral values. There is no room for feeding this growing isolationist "Christian" culture.

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I do sometimes wonder about Christian games - like this Left Behind one being a good example.
Placing things like converting someone and praying into a game just sounds... I dunno, like it's cheapening Christianity or something - like the moneychangers in the temple as you said.

If a Christian developer is creating a game with a so called "evangelistic message", then I'd expect it to be targetted at non-Christians.

That's not to say I think creating games with a Christian theme is bad. Interactive Parables is a good game(imo) that helps you learn Jesus's parables and I enjoy playing it.

...Now if you'll excuse me, Rainbow Six and a bunch of Iranian terrorists are calling my name.

quote:

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http://gac.sagepub.com/cgi/reprint/1/1/89.pdf

(I'm ignoring the total context to focus on one issue.)

She makes a very good point about how game designs can "lull players into accepting ideological conditions". In fact, I'd say that is the Christian entertainment industry in a nutshell. We define reality within a fictional universe. Though fictional, many aspects are purposely designed to be analogous to real life. If it's a video game, we then expect players to play by the rules with the imperative to believe the basis for the fictional backdrop and behave as if it was true. In this manner real-life concepts can be introduced in an nonthreatening manner since players would be considering them within the context of the game. In the case of a book we'd still have characters consider different scenarios within the context of a Christian framework and thus readers will come to understand the logic and reason since they'd be following the viewpoint of the characters.

This is the same for other entertainment that can instead have a negative influence. But while the creators of this other entertainment may not directly contain the motive to negatively influence we obviously are motivated to be positive influences.

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The problem I see is that many Christian messages are so separate from the game or story that they're rather "jarring" in their presentation. The story/game must embody the Christian message seamlessly. Parables do this all the time and the story is still interesting and possibly even funny.

The Left Behind 3 movie was another example of how NOT to do this. They had this long, boring wedding scene that interrupted the flow of the plot (I really liked how they did the opening scene, though). But it was obviously intended to be the major point where a Christian message was discussed.

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quote:

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Originally posted by crazyishone:
Thanks for showing me the light! I'll go repent right now.

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Wow, such hostilities going on. (I didn't mean to single out you Crazy, this post is just oozing with snideness though)

I'm going to avoid this flame war, but I will say this. Faith is only trying to help, not hurt you. Also, You two are a little off topic, and it's ok to have an opinion on things. People don't have to agree with you, and you don't have to make others agree with you. That goes for both Crazy and Faith Warrior and for ME as well, heh. You don't have to agree with this opinion at all!!

Personally, I'm glad there are both the "Christian" and "Secular" Markets.

If they could get a good game up, ya know, it could get some people interested in Christ. Yes, there is a need for Christians who WANT to play Christian games. There is also a need for people who may want to learn more about Christ, but don't know how to read the Bible, feel intimidated by church, and hate people forcing it down their throats. They could see it on a game, rent it, and then want to know more about it.

I personally wouldn't play a game totally immersed in "Christianness" if you know what I mean. I'd need a fair amount of what makes other games fun as well.

Hope I'M not totally off topic. This is a topic in much controversy, it's too bad there are people fighting about both sides.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

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Originally posted by max:
Faith is only trying to help, not hurt you.

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Well, to me, I don't really see putting down someone because they're interpretation is different than yours as helping.

Crazy may have not read the Bible in a while, but I have read the section and I read it when this discussion was taking place and I agree with Crazy's example (though I more agree with Zookey of how that example was presented).

To me it seemed condescending, and that's my honest opinion.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited December 01, 2006).]

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

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Originally posted by max:
Ya know, that's the problem with interpertation. heh, why can't we all think alike???

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Haha, exactly. Five different people can qoute the same scripture but look at it all differently.

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quote:

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I personally wouldn't play a game totally immersed in "Christianness" if you know what I mean. I'd need a fair amount of what makes other games fun as well.

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I think the point is that there is more forcing of christian ideals and less gameplay. Games need good gameplay just like Movies need a good screenplay. Just because the game is Christian doesn't make it need less gameplay and doesn't mean Christian gamers should set sub-standards for such.

The Indie Game market has finally realized this and is starting to expand greatly in the right directions. They have innovations without sacrificing gameplay and quality gaming. The Christian game market needs to do the same.

I also think we need to be more encouraging. We need to note the mistakes made, constructively discuss them, but also think of the strengths. We should focus on the solution, not the problem.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

[This message has been edited by Matt Langley (edited December 01, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by LAVA:
Well, to me, I don't really see putting down someone because they're interpretation is different than yours as helping.

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[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited December 01, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
How am I putting him down?

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quote:

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Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
As for the money changers in the temple, I encourage you to study that some day, it was so unfair what they were doing to people that just wanted to find fellowship with God... you have a bible, right? Absolutely does not apply to what you are trying to say, so worth a real study I'm certain.

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To me it sounds like you were saying that because his interpretation was incorrect (in your eyes), that he obviously didn't know anything about the text. I read the story during this discussion and I agreed with what Crazy was saying, which would mean my interpretation does not agree with yours, does that still mean my knowledge of the Bible is inferior to yours?

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited December 01, 2006).]

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

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Originally posted by LAVA:
To me it sounds like you were saying that because his interpretation was incorrect (in your eyes), that he obviously didn't know anything about the text. I read the story during this discussion and I agreed with what Crazy was saying, which would mean my interpretation does not agree with yours, does that still mean my knowledge of the Bible is inferior to yours?

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I don't follow... reading the bible to grow in the faith is a matter of interpretation? Or are you addressing something else?

The other stuff may be only a symptom of the root cause; long time dusty bible and such. You cant serve two masters, you will hate the other at some point, which often means disliking anything Christian, even key chains. I'm not saying that LB was a great game, I'm not nor have I, but there is more going on here than that.