CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
NOW I've seen it ALL! LOL! In a publication I ran across: Games and Culture Contains an article by professor Cynthia Haynes, PhD of the University of Texas at Dallas titled: Armageddon Army Playing God, God Mode Mods, and the Rhetorical Task of Ludology In the article and appearently during a lecture at the 2005 Digital Arts & Culture conference, Dr. Haynes quotes non other than our very own **get ready** CHEESESTORM! - as a representative voice of the Christian Right video gameplaying youth! LOL!! She quotes CheeseStorm from the follow thread: Here's the quote from her paper.
quote: What disturbs me is Dr. Haynes ability to ignore all the other posts in that thread - some serious and some obviously sarcastic - and finds a quote from one of the few professed non-Christians on the site. If Dr. Haynes wants an honest perspective, why not just ask? Of course, if it supports her thesis, I guess its ok.... from the article... quote: Anyway, maybe CheeseStorm can get a PS3 with all the royalities he'll be getting from the book deal! lol! |
HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
The Official Cheesestorm Appreciation Thread!
quote: Cheese -- how's it feel to be this influential in doctoral research papers? --clint Edit: BTW, I don't think that she necessarily thinks that Cheese is a Christian (she might though -- I really don't know). Regardless, at first glance it seems that her point more rests on the ability of gamers to seamlessly integrate games, religion, life and death, and that they're sortof losing touch with reality. I could be wrong though -- I honestly don't have the patience to read through her whole paper right now. [This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited November 27, 2006).] |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
quote: Sadly, it would be more interesting if you were right. However, after a lot of jumping around, she sums it up toward the end. It turns out to be just another tiresome 'Bush's Evil Empire' rant and how much of an evil genius he is. Oh wait!? I though he was a stupid Chimpy McBushky...now I'm really confused!?
quote: hohum. |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Of course, she probably wanted to use something controversial and put her tag on it as being the “Christian” mindset. Who needs facts? Controversy sells! No one will bother the check the facts... she's got a phd so she is inherently correct. |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
Writing my impressions while reading it: 1. My initial guess she is attempting to make the point that the current conflicts are religion based. As in, the religious beliefs in the US are part of the problem. And video games somehow add to this problem. 2. Christian games are somehow tied into an overall initiative? I'd agree that entertainment can certainly affect people beyond our expectations but I don't recall a XX meeting where we discussed references to the Iraq war...heh. I've never been accused of being an unknowing part of a conspiracy before. 3. She visited the TGS forums before we switched to XX. Surprising who manages to find us. 4. Uh oh, she just mentioned Nietzsche. Internal alarms sounding. 5. What should academics do? They could try double-checking their facts first of all. Then after that they might interview us in order to fully comprehend our motives. Forum posts don't exactly clear indications of the mindset of an individual. 6. I would hope that our games would not lull into a false sense of security when it comes to facing a real life scenario. At the same time basic is designed to weed out those not capable of serving. I doubt a person greatly affected by a fictional game would make it. 7. A game designed to counteract the supposed effects of America's Army? ok. 8. Honestly, she's lost me with those examples of "variations in playing god mode". 9. She makes a very good point about how game designs can "lull players into accepting ideological conditions". In fact, I'd say that is the Christian game industry in a nutshell. We define reality within a fictional universe. Though fictional, many aspects are purposely designed to be analogous to real life. We then expect players to play by the rules with the imperative to believe the basis for the fictional backdrop and behave as if it was true. In this manner real-life concepts can be introduced in an nonthreatening manner since players would be considering them within the context of the game. This is the same for other entertainment that can instead of have a negative influence. But while the creators of this other entertainment may not directly contain the motive to negatively influence we obviously are motivated to be positive influences. 10. Very political in the end. |
CoolJ Member Posts: 354 From: ny Registered: 07-11-2004 |
@Faith_Warrior - yeah - that's the impression I got too. @Gump - nice breakdown. also, I'm not even sure why she mentions the 1st person to die in the Iraq war being an immigrant, whatever she's trying to connect seems to be a real stretch to me. [This message has been edited by coolj (edited November 28, 2006).] |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
well, I couldn't read past cheesestorm's bit, being, in my mind, the only redeemable part of the paper. it was a jumbled mess. she sucks. I rule.
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buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
haha! no kidding. Starcraft rocks. ------------------ |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
I never played Starcraft... The music is good though. |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
Cheese is a SHE?!?!?!?!?!?!
quote: HEY!!! I DO NOT HAVE THAT MUCH ACNE!!!!
Man, I wouldn't mind being quoted... ------------------
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Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
Where do you get that? He's male(afaik). |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
Oh, Good. Whew. I thoguht I just read taht Cheese was a she. I was about to have a nervous breakdown. that was scary... ------------------
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Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
wow man, slow down yer fingers a bit, lol. 3 Cheers for cheese I say! Plus, Jesus would DEFINATELY play SC. ------------------ Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso |
Lazarus Member Posts: 1668 From: USA Registered: 06-06-2006 |
...even though it's about a bunch of weird aliens, humans, and "overlords" ? I wonder how she found that thread - or this site. |
Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
"You require more vespene gas" "Spawn more overlords!" "I can't build there, something's in the way" "Need a light?" "You must construct additional pylons" "You've not enough minerals" "My life for Aiur!" "Somebody call for an exterminator?" "Additional supply depots required" I love SC, it's the best. ------------------ Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Where is CheeseStorm anyway? ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
a sound that is music to my ears: "Battlecruiser operational" that marks the beginning of the end of my enemies. well, atleast some of the time. ------------------ |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
There is also this issue: Copyright© 2000-2006, Christian Coders Network. All rights reserved. Not a very bright holder of the phd to forget that everything posted is under copyright and that site permission needs to be obtained before doing such a thing with quotes as she did. Oh... but she's probably liberal and social engineering takes presidence over law and morality so it muuust be all right. |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
Our Media makes this point:
quote: It's not like she's taking the content of CCN wholesale and then making a profit on it. I've never head of there being a lawsuit over the usage of information contained within forum posts.
quote: While I agree she probably thinks this, national laws and morality don't quite go hand in hand. Also, besides implying that cheesestorm's writings were examples of a Christian gamer (which was likely a goof and not a purposeful lie) how were any of her actions immoral? In fact it probably would have been better to list the quote as from an "unnamed Christian gamer". After all, it's pretty embarrassing to be used as an example of someone who is conflating reality and video games (it's rather obvious she meant the two examples to be viewed in a negative sense). [This message has been edited by Gump (edited November 28, 2006).] |
Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
But is everything said on this forum copyrighted by CCN? What if I created a catchphrase and decided to sell stuff on it, but I started saying it here? Does CCN own my catchphrase? What about game ideas? IMO, if forums cant be responsible for what members say on here, they can't own what is said on here. But putting that aside, shouldn't she have asked Cheesestorm to use his quotes in the first place? ------------------ [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited November 28, 2006).] |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
Let's sue her! Ohh! OOH!! I get ot be the bailif! (Is it even spelled that way?)
quote: CNN owns my catchphrase?!?!? Aww... Yeah though, a PHDed person ought to have the professional courtesy to AT LEAST SAY PLEASE! I just got back from school... kinda high on adrenaline... 0_0 I don't even know WHY I'm pumped up on Adrenaline... I'm bored at shcool. ------------------
[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited November 28, 2006).] |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
Actually there was just a ruling recently that said forums are not responsible for what is written there by members. This clears the legal responsibility of forum owners regarding what people post on their forums. As for legal right to what is posted, generally the author retains rights to what is printed but of course the forum site would have some level of responsibility regarding the ownership of submitted works to the site. In a court of (US) law the site would never be able to use such a right as claiming the work as their own, not unless the writer wound up with cement shoes and no one was left to claim it. Some forum sites make it a note in the posted copyright line that posted information is owned by the poster, but still just mentioning that such work was taken from CCN has got to be flagrant violations of th law or morality (didn't say “=” or would have used one word phrase “moral law”). |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: The laws of the US are still being settled on this point but I'm curious why you think her actions are immoral? "If nature has made any one thing less susceptible than all others of exclusive property, it is the action of the thinking power called an idea, which an individual may exclusively possess as long as he keeps it to himself; but the moment it is divulged, it forces itself into the possession of everyone, and the receiver cannot dispossess himself of it. Its peculiar character, too, is that no one possesses the less, because every other possesses the whole of it. He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. That ideas should freely spread from one to another over the globe, for the moral and mutual instruction of man, and improvement of his condition, seems to have been peculiarly and benevolently designed by nature, when she made them, like fire, expansible over all space, without lessening their density at any point, and like the air in which we breathe, move, and have our physical being, incapable of confinement or exclusive appropriation. Inventions then cannot, in nature, be a subject of property." - Thomas Jefferson You may also find this interesting: |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
I've seen this quote in a couple places now, I don't know why people can't tell that it was a joke. |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote:It's immoral because it's not the truth, it is a jest that is being passed on as factual so that the writer may use it to make a point in conclusion. Hey, I'm not a Republican nor a big Bush supporter, but I can figure out what I'm looking at. |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
I'd completely agree there but what does that have to do with copyrights and the fair use of information? |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: Are you just drilling for something to pick on? Jeez so many peeps giving me a hard time today :P |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
Not really. You made a comment on copyright and I responded. I consider point 9 of my overview a much more interesting topic. |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
It looks more to me as you are trying to pull any sense of morality apart from law. You ask why it is immoral, well she misled the audience, be it intentionally or accidentally that is irrelevant, the conclusion demonstrates the intention of the paper imo. Secondly and more so my point, she took the comments without asking, this in its self shows that the first part of my assumption is correct that it was her intent to mislead. We can squabble now about copyright laws but I just have no interest in writing three pages of forum posts on a retarded thread as this. If you are just trying to prove that law and morality are complete opposites than that's your dilemma, there is nothing to justify amorality. |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
Not opposites. They just can't be conflated. For example, euthanasia might be legal in some nations but is it moral? Or in this case her actions--at least as far as copyright laws--weren't illegal (at least not in the US right now). But you say they're immoral so I asked why and linked to a relevant discussion via Immanuel Kant (a Christian philosopher born in the 18th century). Also, I'd agree that she misleads her readers but that's a separate issue. Anyway, I have an interest in IP rights and such but if you feel this topic retarded please don't feel compelled to respond any further. Not trying to pick on you or anything... |
Faith_Warrior Member Posts: 490 From: So.Cal. Registered: 09-05-2006 |
quote: That's called throwing out the baby with the bath water. So since you view some laws as immoral, they all are, or at least that is how you are trying to argue the point. I don't recognize this way of argument as being rational.
quote:Of course you feel it's a separate issue, it gives weight to what I'm saying.
quote:Huh? You want to talk about IP right or something now? That would be a better context for this conversation, maybe you were really just talking about something else entirely anyway, but I see you are just trying to blow me off at this point, so I'm off... [This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited November 29, 2006).] |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: That fine distinction has been recognized by philosophers for centuries. Several options. A law may have a moral basis, a law may not have a moral basis, and a moral stance may not be covered by any law, a law may knowingly allow for the sinfulness of man, or there may be laws invented for new situations not directly related to morality (traffic laws allow for ease of transportation but in of themselves they are not related to morality[obviously breaking them is another issue]). Example: http://www.rationalchristianity.net/bad_laws.html
quote: One immoral act may not have any implications for another. As in, they're not directly connected. One immoral action in a series of actions does not automatically make all these actions immoral, unless these further actions directly follow from an initial immoral act.
quote: IP Rights and Copyrights Laws are closely related...
quote: And, no, that wasn't a brush off. You indicated you were irritated by something else: "Jeez so many peeps giving me a hard time today". My writing style might be confrontational but my response was genuine. If you don't want to discuss this then don't. No worries. I wouldn't have responded at all now except I wanted to clarify the point you stated as irrational. |