Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
In researching some jefferson quotes i have read recently in a christian article, i came to find out that such quotes were in fact 'addon's and not true. I have had this happen so many times. It saddens me when i see christians not researching well enough their facts, (though i have been guilty of the same) and naively allowing falsehoods into their statements give the reader and non christian an excuse to deny the truths that the writer/speaker is portraying, declaring it all as a sham. I've seen this around the board in magazines, sermons and the like. from issues like the one i mentioned above that makes thomas jefferson to be a devout christian, when from his words and deeds it would indicately clearly that he was not, to quotes about harry potter that had been taken from a 'parody' theonion article, to reading in a devotion the urban legend of charles darwin's deathbed conversion. in regards to the topic i was initially thinking about. I have always maintained that the founding fathers in general were Godly men, who understood human nature well, and created a democracy with a great deal of wisdom. Part of that is true, yet humanity and its evils is spread and seeded through it as well, just as with any countries history. Thomas Jefferson - despite not being a christian (as far as what i know being a christian is) did understand the human nature, and its vices however anyway. I still regard much of the principles of the constitution to be very important and among the best in the world, and to be defended strongly against the encrouchment that is coming against them day by day now. But i am painfully aware that the founding at the founding of this nation, both seed and weeds were planted, wheat and tares, inseperatable until the end, with fruit of both being evident in history and today. for some christians, however, i fear that allegance to the government, to the constitution, the flag and democracy has become an idol, replacing in their hearts the essence of the gospel, even thinking these things as part of the gospel, as important or more important to them than the gospel. Even good things can become idols, and when they become idols they cease to be so good, and today though freedom exists in measure, freedom is taken away from us - IN the name of freedom, though liberty exists in measure, we freely give it away - in name of liberty, and though justice exists in measure, man's laws have become bigger than justice and thus unjustice is often done - in the name of justice.. the loopholes in the law succesfully manaovered so that democracy is exalted in name, but given lip service only. Where to the powerful democracy is just a hurdle to skillfully jump or get around, and once straddled a false legitimacy for selfish ambition and even evil actions. in a movie i watched last night, i caught a glimpse of the lincoln memorial (which i have never had the chance to go to) and in that short glimpse , i glimpsed the word temple - which prompted shock and curiousity.. i researched it and found that that memorial is inscribed with these words "In this temple as in the hearts of the people for whom he saved the Union the memory of Abraham Lincoln is enshrined forever." those words create great concern for me, and confirm my view that so often in blind patriotism we make our country, our system, our history into an idol. but there can be only one God, and all idols will eventually be smashed. I am not saying anything about the character of abraham lincoln at all, but rather the response of people. No man is have a temple nor be credited with any manner of salvation without proper attribution to the saviour. (same can be said of Mary, the real Mary , the flesh and blood sinful but loved and chosen of God women , chosen to bear Jesus and raise him was a Godly women, yet the praying to her, and practically deifying her is not good)
"It is yet to be decided whether the Revolution must ultimately be considered as a blessing or a curse: a blessing or a curse, not to the present age alone, for with our fate will the destiny of unborn millions be involved. " ------------------ |
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nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
Very excellent comments Karl. It staggers me every time I hear prominent Christian "leaders" pounding out such falsehoods and causing those just as ignorant of the facts (and that is giving the benefit of the doubt to all parties involved) to accept what they say. It is a dangerous character trait to be confident enough in what you hope to be true to state it as fact when it is nothing more than erred opinion. And even moreso for a person of prominence, of record, of utmost responsibility, to avoid "profane and vain babblings" like that of a pastor. The truly scary part of all of this is that the facts are available to whomever wants to discover them, and still, after 200 years, they are ignored by the people who should know better - Americans. It is sad when immigrants know more than those born here, and those who aren't even close to being first generation Americans - more like third or fourth at least. How many American citizens by birth can pass the same tests that are given at a naturalization exam? |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: Heh, nobody if Congress has its way . . .
quote: Cause grief for the US A few of the more detailed questions I didn't have an answer, but I got most of the questions right. I'm sure I could get 100% with a little history refresher. How many of you could get: quote: right? I got it right  .Klumsy: Good points. All too often, wanting to be right clouds our judgement. ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
I got bored really fast with that... as far as I went, I knew the answers.. purpose of the UN? well.. that'd be to enslave the world in a global tyranny. it's not on the charter.. but... beware the UN... ------------------ |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
the purpose of the U.N originally to legitimise american internests and way of doing things, (as well as some other nobeller goals), but as many of american creations( or american supported regimes) they often turn out a little different than designed. ------------------ |
BKewl Member Posts: 144 From: St. Charles, MO, USA Registered: 07-10-2002 |
I agree that was a good post Klumsy, that stuff needed to be said. It saddens me to see the mass e-mails that are forwarded by Christians all the time that are downright lies. It saddens me even more when I hear people say things at church (whether in fellowship at or outside church or even in the sermon) and then I end up coming across those things on snopes.com, debunked as urban legends (and proven false). Aren't we supposed to be the ones who hold the truth in this world? This tends to muddy the waters, I'd say. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
We'd have to be really careful about what we say. and if we're not sure of something, say that we're not. just can't believe anything that comes along. must take the scientist attitude and think critically. after all, good christians and good scientist have some similar goals, Seeking Truth. ------------------  [This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited January 14, 2004).] |
. Really, the UN is an international thing - why would it be on a U.S. naturalization quiz?