I surely don't plan on going to public high school...

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
i go to public high school.

---

I go to public homeschool. Any additional members of my family are welcome to enroll.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

------------------
Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

21. wow. I wasn't sure about the exact number.

------------------
that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

------------------
Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

This shooting at Virginia Tech really shouldn't be compared to the UW one.

------------------

"The CIA must operate within the law.." - Former President Jimmy Carter, trying to solve an old problem. ;)

Gun control, how I despise thee. National media, how I despise thee.

I can't say a single anti-gun control thing without using some trite cliche, so I won't bother, but I will stake my flag on that side of the debate every time. True, no honest citizen needs an automatic weapon, suppressor, or a 20-round clip. But why should any government be allowed to control the possessions of the citizens? The same really goes for drugs and alcohol. Maybe its generally accepted that some things are "bad", but one shouldn't tout "Rights" in one debate and destroy them in another.

------------------

"The CIA must operate within the law.." - Former President Jimmy Carter, trying to solve an old problem. ;)

------------------
Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

50 years ago the biggest problems in highschools were kids talking in class and being found in the hall ways during class now the biggest problems are rape,murder,drugs,etc...

30 years ago they bannned the Bible from being thought in public highschools .

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

------------------
Life is merely something from which none of us will escape alive

Millions play violent games and watch violent movies, far less that 1 percent will ever shoot someone.

I don't think it has anything to do with the Bible being pulled out of schools---they had problems back then (it was like in the 50s I think a kid snipered a bunch of people on a Texas campus from a clock tower) just it was A) covered up better and B) punished heavier.

I think our single biggest problem is we look for scapegoats. Games made them do it. TV made them do it. they have some sort of disease that makes it not their fault---if we stopped excusing negative behaivor as much and started attaching punishments to it I think more people would be less inclined to do these things---although they are still a very random occurance.

------------------

I hope is ok.

------------------
"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

Including gunman.

...

Don't know what to say...

------------------
yeah, im a little crazy
Check out my crazy sig that I made:

If maybe a few more people in those rooms had guns, could the death toll have been lessened? I believe so.

People who want guns will get them.

Remember that we are not becoming more violent in the past 50 years. Maybe in America, but thats just around 250 years of history. Anybody remember all those thousands of years where a guy around 14 was considered soldier material? (because the average person didn't live to be 40.)

We've always had killers and unstable people. We only need worry when those people have power. Access to guns certainly gives an individual a deal of power. BUT, every American citizen has the right to possess that same power.

Also remember that we have a far more widespread media influence these days. "50 years ago" the population of America was just starting to have a color tv in almost every house. So perhaps the quantity of crimes is not increasing, just the quantity of crimes that happen to get reported and recorded.

------------------

A liberal on another site had this to say about the scenario you(and others) propose:

quote:

---

What you're more likely to see is this: The Killer gets off two shots. A gun wielding student moves to draw his own gun and is gunned down because the killer has the drop on him. A third student draws his gun and fires five times, hands shaking, hitting two people beyond the killer but not hitting him. The killer guns him down. Two students in different classes hear the shooting and draw guns - they encounter each other in the hallways outside their rooms and begin a pitched gun battle. The shootout escalates with arriving students and faculty picking the first armed and firing student they see as 'the killer'.

Law enforcement arrives and wipes out half the armed students because some of them fire on the cops. The original killer is long dead, but the collateral damage caused by so many unskilled and inexperienced shooters starts a legal battle that continues for ten years or more after the incident. Students who engaged law enforcement are imprisoned. Students who engaged each other are sued / imprisoned. Faculty are sued. Cops who engaged gun wielding students are sued.

Law enforcement agents become paralysed during incidents like this - threatened by a mass of armed students but hamstrung by the law from defending themselves. The softly, softly approach allows future events of this type to grind on longer, causing more casualties still.

---

He's a gun control advocate, btw...
Really can't know though. One guy with a pistol could have took down the killer in the first two seconds - or gotten shot himself.
Either way, taking away a person's right to defend themselves is not the way to go...

Somebody who doesn't live in America: How do you feel about gun control?

------------------

either way, this isn't about gun control.
it's about one crazy (for lack, or permission, of a better word) individual.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by insanepoet:
I have a friend at virginia tech....

I hope is ok.

---

I could have sworn there was a site or something called Face Book that was helping with that--I saw it on the news--there might be other ways to find out too although that was all I remembered---let us know how he is!

------------------

I’d especially drastically lighten gun laws along the southern border, a lot of people die from people coming over the border illegally and murdering citizens here. When I lived in San Diego, my neighbor was murdered by Illegals in the middle of the night for his pickup truck at his own home, and this is certainly not a rare event. But stuff like that is old news and rarely gets reported nationally, not when they are getting the scoop on a story caused by our liberal government letting nuts into the country and handing them a gun.

quote:

---

Originally posted by zookey:
I could have sworn there was a site or something called Face Book that was helping with that--I saw it on the news--there might be other ways to find out too although that was all I remembered---let us know how he is!

---

Yeah I used facebook to send him a messsage. he's ok =). He was actually traveling at the time.

------------------
"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

there has always been crazy people but now that people stopped teaching the moral values of the BIBLE and started teaching their own more and more of these incidents are happening at a faster rate and at a larger scale.

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
it has everything to do with the BIBLE being pulled out of schools.

---

Our societies moral status has been declining for quite some time. For example first not letting teacher spank kids, next parents cant spank kids, next kids get more control over parents and a system of disorder is now mandated, and the kids get to spank the parents. I know this is a loose association but it is how things get out of hand. Then pull the Bible out of the school, then pull out any organization that has to do with religion unless it's Harry Potter. Then teach kids fluff (do whatever you want if it feels good). Teach abortion, birth control. . .

Is there any wonder why our society is failing with morality? With a considered lack of order and direction?

Post it note:
I see all the good kids here that have parents that have tought respect and in turn, they are mature and are able to conduct themselves in an adult manner. I see a high number of home schooled kids here. I wonder how much respect each of these kids have for their parents. God bless each student and I pray for angelic protection for each person here.

(Ok I know not 100% on topic but close enough)

Kenman

So in light of that I guess I can’t put a lot of the blame on the INS since he had been in the US for so long. As hard as the INS works *cough* I’m sure it would be hard to run psychological profiles periodically for the same person. He was young when he arrived in the US and had the grades and money to get into a prominent college so in that such suspicion would be difficult to raise.

The downside to this could raise the possible backlash towards the Korean community in the US. Personally I like Koreans, I spent many years studying a Korean martial art and obtained a black belt, learnt some of their history and learnt some of their language. I have only good memories of those times. But of course there is fear of backlash against the Korean community over the ordeal, which tends to happen with such traumatic circumstances.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 18, 2007).]

I also study a Korean martial art. I can't really say my opinion of their culture, as I haven't studied them. But I do remember them setting up missiles of some sort against the US.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Mene-Mene:
He was an exchange student from what I heard.

I also study a Korean martial art. I can't really say my opinion of their culture, as I haven't studied them. But I do remember them setting up missiles of some sort against the US.

---

but yeah, while I have been joking around with my friends about koreans being crazy and how I'll only just cut them up (cuz I'm half korean), this isn't really korean behavior. koreans are more likely to make tons of money, and buy you out.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
Oh a bit of a correction, he has been in the US since 92. There was a backpack near him that contained his US visa application in it. He was here with a green card.

So in light of that I guess I can’t put a lot of the blame on the INS since he had been in the US for so long. As hard as the INS works *cough* I’m sure it would be hard to run psychological profiles periodically for the same person. He was young when he arrived in the US and had the grades and money to get into a prominent college so in that such suspicion would be difficult to raise.

The downside to this could raise the possible backlash towards the Korean community in the US. Personally I like Koreans, I spent many years studying a Korean martial art and obtained a black belt, learnt some of their history and learnt some of their language. I have only good memories of those times. But of course there is fear of backlash against the Korean community over the ordeal, which tends to happen with such traumatic circumstances.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 18, 2007).]

---

The fact that he was south Korean is insignificant and I don't think people are really going to worry about that. These shootings have been executed by other people of other races in the past.

I have some South Korean friends =p

------------------
"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

---

Originally posted by insanepoet:
The fact that he was south Korean is insignificant and I don't think people are really going to worry about that. These shootings have been executed by other people of other races in the past.

I have some South Korean friends =p

---

it's really the uneducated group that you need to worry about, people act by feeling, instead of reason.
but I still think we're rather low on the list.
the racists still have blacks, mexicans, arabs, sihks (cuz they look like arabs, supposedly), the french...

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
the french...

---

Keep in mine, Jesus said nation shall rise against nation and kingdom against kingdom, so if we are truly entering into the end times (unrelated to The Day After Tomorrow movie) this has significance since nation is better translated as nationality or race.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 19, 2007).]

The Americans and the English have been canning on the french for hundreds of years.
I intend to see that this wonderful tradition continues.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

Does anyone feel sympathy for the Korean who did this, may I ask?

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
I still make fun of the french. and I am also part french (last name is french)

The Americans and the English have been canning on the french for hundreds of years.
I intend to see that this wonderful tradition continues.

---

I’m not sure how that makes it right. Racial jokes and the like cause division and certainly is not edifying one bit. It destroys relationships, closes the door to the gospel to be preached and encourages the truly racists people to continue in such ways or for others to become so.

If Billy Graham long ago opened up a crusade with a joke about the Polish, do you think God could have used him so mightily? Graham has preached the gospel of Christ to more people than any other in history, Jesus said that we would do greater things than what they saw or what we read about Him, and Graham certainly demonstrates that by the amount of people he has reached through Christ. But if he long ago even once started off a single crusade with a racial type of joke, how much would it have destroyed the message? How many people in the world would not have made that decision to follow Christ because of what Billy could have said?

I’m not coming down on you about it, but you should certainly give it to prayer and let Jesus change your heart about such idle talk. Don‘t do or not do because of tradition, but because you can see past it and realize by the help of the Lord you can be changed because it certainly is counter productive and as by the example given you may understand it can be destructive. It’s not easy to do, to dispose of those things that cause division, actually it is nearly impossible, but God changes the heart if we let Him do so.

Then again, Billy’s message was hindered for some, particularly to the ethnic Jews due to a few anti-Semitic comments when he was supporting Nixon, sadly. That was a very long time ago and he has somewhat apologized since, but it is still something that follows him around and probably caused some to not put their trust in Christ. It’s not just prominent people that are under the magnifying glass, but we all are especially when it has to do with those around us.

As for the situation with what happened in Virginia, sure you can feel sympathy for the guy, he was obviously under the power of a demonic being, he got duped by Satan. It’s the same MO that has happened many time before, like when those two kids opened up their guns at columbine, they were actually hunting Christians, most often Christians were their target. In the Virginia case, he made the same type of intention clear in his manifesto, he mentioned Christians because he too was demonically inspired and probably controlled at that point. There are other examples as well, and I think much of it has to do with taking God out of the school system and replacing it with the religion of Darwinism.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 19, 2007).]

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
it's really the uneducated group that you need to worry about, people act by feeling, instead of reason.

---

I would tend to disagree that it's one or the other you need to worry more or less about. What we are seeing, in the increase of senseless violence, and so on, is a symptom of people's worldviews. Teach people that they are only made up of matter, and the logical conclusion of that is this: morals are artifical constructs, and nothing I do ultimately matters, because I am only matter; everything else must be an illusion. If that's not a depressing thought, I don't know what is. Many people are finding out the logical conclusions to this presupposition, and they can't live with it, but they can't or won't accept other philosophies.

They may not think of it in these terms, and they may not even realize that this is where their despair is coming from, but if they don't have a worldview that reasonably explains not only physical matter, but also the human spirit, one is more likely to feel deeply troubled.

The guy was an English major. Who knows, maybe he had been reading Nietzsche, or Derrida. I was an English major in college. Reading those guys would have me angry, too, especially if I bought into their worldviews. If you can't refute Derrida's philosophy behind what he's saying, and if you follow it to its ultimate conclusions, you end up with an incredibly meaningless existence.

------------------
it's pronounced "tonics"

anyhow, about racial/nationality jokes, to a degree lightens an issue that is taken way to seriously. Races are taken way to seriously, people just won't let them go. It seems like it's all people can think about.
a joke here makes them less important and less likely to be an issue. people who can't take jokes are people who take themselves way too seriously. what we do need to watch is that the jokes aren't malicious or one-way. Like the Simpsons, the jokes are spread wide, very few get really offended. I make fun of blacks, whites, latinos and asians. I'll rip on the french, but I also make fun of America, and God knows I love my country. (and after watching Flyboys, the french went up in my book)
the more korean jokes I make, the more korean I feel.
Skin color and national lines don't really matter when determining one's humanity. we need to learn to let go and laugh at it a little.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

------------------
it's pronounced "tonics"

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
very few get really offended.

---

Eph. 5:4 But fornication and all uncleanness or covetousness, let it not even be named among you, as is fitting for saints; 4 neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor coarse jesting, which are not fitting, but rather giving of thanks.

quote:

---

Originally posted by crazyishone:
Here's one of the cliches I mentioned before:

If maybe a few more people in those rooms had guns, could the death toll have been lessened? I believe so.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by crazyishone:
Somebody who doesn't live in America: How do you feel about gun control?

---

Here in Guatemala at age 15, with the right connections, I could easily get a pistol (illegally of course). Someone is shot and killed almost every day. In early 2006, just 600ft from my house, some people were killed by an AK-47 in a drive by shooting (AFAIK civilians aren't allowed to own automatic rifles, or any rifle for that matter) because some guy was mad that his victim had cheated him in a business deal several years ago.

Just recently some Honduran diplomats were killed and their killers were placed in jail. But the next day some other group of people broke into the jail and killed the killers. Like I said... it all depends on the person carrying the gun and if they can handle the responsibilities and stress.

Personally, I want to get a concealed weapon license.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited April 20, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by CPUFreak91:

Personally, I want to get a concealed weapon license.

---

Ditto.

And my brother purchased a 9MM pistol at a flea market when he was sixteen - legally of course. America is the land of the free all right...

Now, if I got physically attacked, I would defend myself or run away (if severely outnumbered, or they had deadly implements), but I wouldn't want to take someone's life, even in defense of my own. If possible, I would subdue my attacker, call the cops, and share the gospel with them until the cops showed up.

I believe we are supposed to love our enemies, not murder them. Tough love is part of that, but I don't think it includes blowing peoples brains out with a handgun.

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

quote:

---

But what profit is there to offend anyone in this way?

---

people, honestly, need to get offended a little more. it shocks them out of their little boxes. non-malicious racial jokes can shock people and diminish those subliminal racial lines. honestly, these jokes have only benefited me.
I'm surrounded by people judging by race (affirmative action, who's oppressing who, etc). I used to be color-blinded when I was young. Now, all I hear is race and racism and now one of the first things I notice is race. This helps me from taking that seriously. It has also helped me to be more proud of my korean heritage. I never identified myself as asian until I start making asian jokes.

haha, tonnyx, yeah. Koreans (and most asians) can be racist like that. koreans can stick to themselves alot, too. old school asians prefer their children to marry in their own nationality, but that doesn't hold up so well. They usually make exceptions for other asians and whites. or if their rich.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by steveth45:
I take killing a little more seriously than that. If it was just me walking down a dark alley at night and I got jumped, I'd rather lose my wallet and get beat up than condemn a lost soul to hell.

---

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

Over here you have to hold a license for anything > air rifle (be it .22 or .177). Now I hold a gun license and have 2 rifles, which I use for pheasant, rabbit shooting at weekends. However if you are ever referred to a Psychiatrist or even touch anti-depressants, your license is revoked and the Police collect your guns. This has had a positive effect, in that gun crime isn't such a problem here (a number of isolated cases are too be expected). Knife problems on the other hand are quite bad here right now.

At the end of the day, I believe we have a great policy, in that nobody with mental health problems, or anybody that has ever been on anti-depressants for whatever reason, would find it hard to get hold of a gun.

Anyways this is not to spark a debate. But I think the US would be wise to adopt such a policy, if it doesn't already?

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

That sounds nice, CPU - but you can't always aim for someone's leg or arm and make it all nice and clean like in the movies.

I think Christians carry "Love your enemy" way too far these days...

quote:

---

I'm not too sure on your gun laws, but am aware of the 2nd Amendment(?), the right to bear arms. Without getting into a stupid debate about the rights and wrongs of having guns, i'll tell you a bit about the UK.

---

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Over here you have to hold a license for anything > air rifle (be it .22 or .177). Now I hold a gun license and have 2 rifles, which I use for pheasant, rabbit shooting at weekends. However if you are ever referred to a Psychiatrist or even touch anti-depressants, your license is revoked and the Police collect your guns. This has had a positive effect, in that gun crime isn't such a problem here (a number of isolated cases are too be expected). Knife problems on the other hand are quite bad here right now.

At the end of the day, I believe we have a great policy, in that nobody with mental health problems, or anybody that has ever been on anti-depressants for whatever reason, would find it hard to get hold of a gun.

Anyways this is not to spark a debate. But I think the US would be wise to adopt such a policy, if it doesn't already?

---

I think that is a fantastic policy!

I doubt the US has adopted it, the shooter at VT was considered mentally ill and was on anti-depressants (so I heard), yet he still got a gun. But then that could've just been the state's policy, or lack-thereof.

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

2. Luke 22:35 And He said to them, “When I sent you without money bag, knapsack, and sandals, did you lack anything?” So they said, “Nothing.” 36 Then He said to them, “But now, he who has a money bag, let him take it, and likewise a knapsack; and he who has no sword, let him sell his garment and buy one. 37 For I say to you that this which is written must still be accomplished in Me: ‘And He was numbered with the transgressors. For the things concerning Me have an end.” 38 So they said, “Lord, look, here are two swords.” And He said to them, “It is enough.”

Ok, let the molten flaming glob of debate begin! J/k

If you've got somebody cornered and you can shoot them where you choose from a relatively close range, perhaps you can control how you "wound" them. But chasing a person is a far different story: he's moving, you're moving, its hard to aim, what you're going to hit is changing with each step he takes.
"I meant to hit his arm!" ...well now theres a bullet in his upper back near the shoulder, and we all know the abundance of blood running through there, not to mention internal organs.

If you're going to pull a gun on somebody you need to be mentally prepared to kill them. If an individual has done something that merits you pulling a gun on him, it is (arguably and situation depending) more humane to kill him. Kill him now, or let him spend years in prison suffering, or the rest of his life as a paraplegic. (worst case scenario, of course.)

------------------

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

Spade, btw - not arguing but my opinion is that Christians and self-defense do go together and nothing wrong with Christians owning guns.

I think just plain ignorance(and I don't mean that as an insult) is responsible for alot of the gun control hysteria. People think "Well - the government can just outlaw guns and there'll be no more problems!"

Yeah - nice - but it never works in real life. Criminals never buy guns legally anyway...

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 21, 2007).]

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by crazyishone:
CPUFreak91, I'm sure you're familiar with the human anatomy.

---

quote:

---

There is no "I'll just wound him". If a bullet hits a body, there's no guarantee it wont kill the person. A "leg" isn't just a 'non-oneshot-kill' zone. It's got arteries and veins running through it. You can die from getting hit in the leg.

---

quote:

---

Even if its "only a flesh wound", you can still die from blood poisoning if you aren't cared for properly or quickly enough.

---

quote:

---

But chasing a person is a far different story: he's moving, you're moving, its hard to aim, what you're going to hit is changing with each step he takes.

---

quote:

---

Kill him now, or let him spend years in prison suffering, or the rest of his life as a paraplegic. (worst case scenario, of course.)

---

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited April 22, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by crazyishone:
it is (arguably and situation depending) more humane to kill him. Kill him now, or let him spend years in prison suffering, or the rest of his life as a paraplegic. (worst case scenario, of course.)

---

Mmmmm... yes, Kill him, Kill him now

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
hey, no one can be happy unless they can do this

it kept me from hanging myself

---

What's that guy doing? (Besides slipping and falling into the creek)

I think its okay to own something large like a shotgun, but only carry a pistol, why allow the pistol? Well for female self defense, or male for that matter.

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

quote:

---

Love the picture FW. I think guns should be allowed to a certain point, if any citizen was allowed a bazooka, well, 1. I'd run, 2. I'd hide, 3. I'd be mad at the government.
I think its okay to own something large like a shotgun, but only carry a pistol, why allow the pistol? Well for female self defense, or male for that matter

---

guns and Christians don't go together ,no type of self-defense is allowed in Christianity.

always give the other chick and be as wise as a serpent but as harmless as a dove.

if you are in danger all you have to do is call the name of JESUS.

i have heard of bullets changing their ways when Christians call the name of JESUS.

nothing or no-one can hurt you as long as you call the name of JESUS.

no type of war or killing or even harm is acceptable ,if you want mercy from JESUS you have to have mercy on others, no mercy for the merciless.

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

Spade, do you think it's possible for me to kill someone in self-defense and be a real Christian?

EDIT: and that's not my opinion that's the truth.
------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited April 24, 2007).]

I mean - Spade, say I know a friend(and a Christian) that shot and killed someone attempting to rape her - and she saw no reason to repent of that. (This is a hypothetical example)

According to you she'd go to hell, correct?

so killing someone out of defense of, oh, say, your children would be wrong?

and no, jumping in front of the bullet does not constitute saving your kids.
Considering that the one shot muskets are now out of fashion and a pistol clip typically holds 11 shots.

so you'll just call on the name of Jesus and he'll magically just keep all the bullets from touching? like some genie in a bottle? He CAN do it, but will He always be at our beck and call?
What if God requires that you be the tool to save your children?
Don't let faith be an excuse for non-action, but rather couple it with action. I'm not saying your making excuses, but sometimes we need to walk out and do it, through faith in Jesus.

------------------
"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
guns and Christians don't go together ,no type of self-defense is allowed in Christianity.

---

And pry tell, what scriptural basis is this drawn from?

quote:

---

Originally posted by LAVA:
And pry tell, what scriptural basis is this drawn from?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lazarus:
I believe Spade referred to "Turn the other cheek" in that post.

---

You know what striking the cheek means, right? It’s the same today in Israel as it was 2000 years ago. Striking someone’s cheek is an insult, instead of giving someone the bird they slap them on the face. It is very much considered an insult in Israel today. So it is saying, if someone insults you don’t insult them back (i.e. slapping them). Has nothing to do with self-defense apart from insults.

To expand this even more, to turn the cheek is simply not offering yourself as a target again. If th eperson is right handed and strikes a person on the left cheek with palm and that person changes the position of their head than the angle would require the person to either change their position to have a target again or to strike them in the face which would be more than an insult. So beyond simply not trading insults for insult one is best to position themselves so the person will need to go out of their way for an attempt to slap or insult again.

To associate turning the other cheek to gun control is a very big leap out of the context of the text. There is nothing spiritualized here, scriptures are best studied at face value rather than spiritualized into something else that it is not.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 24, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:

Good to see LAVA with the good questions as always

---

Why, thank you

quote:

---

How can you be so sure? There are so many different opinions on what alot of the Bible means - how can you be sure your "interpretation"(which is what it is) is the one and only correct one?
I mean - Spade, say I know a friend(and a Christian) that shot and killed someone attempting to rape her - and she saw no reason to repent of that. (This is a hypothetical example)

According to you she'd go to hell, correct?

---

i am absolutley sure about my faith not you not satan not anyone except the maker of the law can change my mind about what i said because what i said is based on the Gospel and paul says even if an angel from heaven teaches you a other-wise he is to be accursed.

you are saying something contrary to the Gospel.

take a look at what it says on the BIBLE here:

Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

to see the whole chapter here is the link:
[URL=http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=10&version=31&context=chapter]http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=49&chapter=10&version=31&context=chapter[/UR L]

ok, you made a hypothetical situation where a girl was about to get raped and she shot the rapist.

well all she had to do was call the name of JESUS and the demon inside the rapist would either scream and leave the person or run the other way.

here is a witnessing(or what i remember) i saw on tbn(channel 14 or trinity brodcasting network):

this fairly elderly women was about to get into her car in a parking lot when this man forcefuly takes her hostage and starts driving and i don't remember most of what she said happened but some where she called the name of JESUS and the man jumped out of the car and run away. if i am not mistaken this man was some sort of serial rapist but i am not sure.

i could find out and tell you more witnessings , whenever a person is about to commit violence he doesn't do it on his own but with a demon help.

if you could have faith and just call the name of JESUS nothing will happen to you .

no kind of violence or accident or even disease can either kill you or harm you seriously if you are a true believer in JESUS.

here is a rethorical question:

did JESUS fight back when they were about to crucify him on the cross??

answer:no.

why? because it was the will of the FATHER not to do so but to be crucified on that cross.

well JESUS commanded us to be as wise as serpents and as harmless as doves, he also promised to be with us and to protect us from the enemy.

he said when a man hits you on the right chick you should give him your left.

and the BIBLE also says to be crucified on the cross everyday.

i am not saying here that i am being crucified on the cross every day but
i try to keep his commandments and i know i will be more than hated for following his commandments.

the thing that hypothetical person repent should forgive the rapist as soon as she can.

btw,i am also agains any kind of military force ,and any kind of war,
it amazes me when people say GOD bless our troops. do people who say that live in the OLD TESTAMENT ??

if you are not alowed to hit someone back when he hits you how is it that you are allowed to hit him before he hits you in self defense.

you are saying we should hit someones right chick if we think they are about to hit our right chick(aka self defense)

but JESUS says even if they hit you ,you should not only give them foriveness you should give them the other chick to hit.

archangel:

EDIT:

quote:

---

big words you got there.
so killing someone out of defense of, oh, say, your children would be wrong?

and no, jumping in front of the bullet does not constitute saving your kids.
Considering that the one shot muskets are now out of fashion and a pistol clip typically holds 11 shots.

so you'll just call on the name of Jesus and he'll magically just keep all the bullets from touching? like some genie in a bottle? He CAN do it, but will He always be at our beck and call?
What if God requires that you be the tool to save your children?
....

---

even if a nuclear bomb explodes right next to you and you call the name of JESUS he will give you protection, he has all power in heaven and on earth.

JESUS does not require you to personally defend anyone,not even yourself,
JESUS does not contradict himself.

quote:

---

Don't let faith be an excuse for non-action, but rather couple it with action. I'm not saying your making excuses, but sometimes we need to walk out and do it, through faith in Jesus.

---

i don't like arguing if you have any quesinons on what i said please fell free to ask, and don't mistake obedience for weakness.

p.s.:

guys please don't be argumentative and defensive about either this or any other topic please be honest with GOD, be sincere and kneel down and pray about this topic ,what you say wouldn't change a single thing about what i think. don't take the simplicity out of Christianity and please please pray about this and i assure you he will show you what i mean.

i use to think the same way until i got proven wrong and the LORD showed me other wise .

i don't have time now but if guys want i will show you.

it seems as if you guys are defensive ,if you are there no-one attacking you ,but if you are seeking for the truth i am hth.
------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited April 24, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited April 24, 2007).]

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
Luke 10:19
I have given you authority to trample on snakes and scorpions and to overcome all the power of the enemy; nothing will harm you.

---

What about the thousands of martyrs since Steven who have called out to God and yet were killed? Many of those martyrs had enough faith to make a mountain out of a mustard seed.

I think it's up to God whether or not he will save you from physical harm whether you call out or not. And if you do call out to him but aren't protected from physical harm and you have a lot of faith, you probably won't complain because you know that God knows what's best.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

quote:

---

What about the people in Sudan who say the name of Jesus, they're still shot, or taken prisoners.....

---

persecution is to be excpected but if you believe in self-defense and hurt other people then i don't belive you would be protected yourself.

about the people in sudan, well i don't care if you are in sudan ,in nigeria,in india,china canada ,france ,it doesn't even matter if you are on the moon.

if you are a child of GOD and you call the name of the Great King JESUS, he will protect you.

if you are working for GOD and if you have given him your life then he will protect you .

quote:

---

Yes Jesus has the power to, but He doesn't always. What about the girl who said Jesus when a high school student put a gun to her head, she's still dead. I believe in supernatural influence, but I also believe in self-defense and self-action.

---

if JESUS said whosoever does the will of my FATHER is my brother and mother. JESUS will protect his bretheren.

cpufreak:

quote:

---

Not meaning to argue, or pick a fight, but what about the first martyr Steven? He didn't call out to God for help and yet he was stoned to death.

---

and i don't think steven threw rocks back at the people in self-defense, he died as the killed him because it was the will of GOD.

what i am saying is even if a person tries to kill a Christian unless it is the will of GOD he will fail, don't you know that the LORD has sent thousands of angels on the left and right of his followers.

if the LORD says die for my sake then you should do it.

you shouldn't disobey and fight back.

quote:

---

What about the thousands of martyrs since Steven who have called out to God and yet were killed? Many of those martyrs had enough faith to make a mountain out of a mustard seed.

---

quote:

---

I think it's up to God whether or not he will save you from physical harm whether you call out or not. And if you do call out to him but aren't protected from physical harm and you have a lot of faith, you probably won't complain because you know that God knows what's best.

---

still people what is of the darkness is of the darkness and children of the Light don't follow the ways of the darkness.

again you guys are trying to argue with me.why?

the whole concept of "self" should disappear form a perfect Christians life, as a Christian i try to imitate Christ and Christ was never selfish and he always thought for others when he needed something he prayed for it and he got it.

even when people tried to stone him he always escaped until his time came, he neven attacked the people back,but he could have.

------------------
John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
what i am saying is even if a person tries to kill a Christian unless it is the will of GOD he will fail, don't you know that the LORD has sent thousands of angels on the left and right of his followers.

---

Ok that answers the questions I had about your opinions and beliefs on being protected by God when I read your earlier post. Thanks for clarifying.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited April 25, 2007).]