(Had to start a new topic because the ' in the old one makes it unreplyable to)

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

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Originally posted by Calin:
Do you think life could spread by accident from earth to another planets?

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I don't believe God has made an accidents. I agree with Laz. Aliens and UFO's adn the like are GREAT spiritual distractions.

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

But the possibility of there being another planet/moon out there that has all the right conditions for supporting life seems rather remote.

As for UFOs/paranormal, who is to say that Satan or his demons wouldn't use that sort of thing as a tool to lead people astray? It's clear that they exist and are against us, so why wouldn't they pose as ghosts of dead loved ones or random paranormal events if it weakens our faith?

Edit: Other than angels, i'm pretty sure that earth is the only planet with life, although i don't have the scripture references on me right now.

[This message has been edited by jestermax (edited March 23, 2007).]

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
I suppose it could be possible, certainly.

But the possibility of there being another planet/moon out there that has all the right conditions for supporting life seems rather remote.

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That's a good answer.

My point was that we as Christians shouldn't leave our brains at the door and jump on the '0 change' for life to exist in space (or a planet like Moon or Mars). There is a chance even though it's very small. The true question is where does that life come from.
I've read the other day they found live bacterias/micro-organisms on space suits that were used in space. It didn't flashed me at that time so I didn't saved the link.
I'm pretty sure they will find microorganisms (live or dead) in space and claim 'alien' life when in fact it will be life originating on Earth (spread due to human activity in space or by other means).

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited March 23, 2007).]

I'm not for a second denying the existence of UFO's. I believe that people really see them. But the question is; why do UFO's always have to be about aliens? Isn't a UFO an unidentified flying object? It shouldn't have anything to do with aliens. UFO's seem to lean more towards mysterious supernatural entities as opposed to physically created crafts operating within the laws of nature and and confines physics... In the end, I think it's all a clever ploy by the devil and his minions to draw people away from the truth and the light of Jesus Christ.

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They will know that we are Christians by our love.

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

Who knows?!

Who are we to judge what God will and won't do? I ah... umm, can't remember the authors name, but it had a very interesting story, that there WAS life on other planets, and that Jesus had appeared to them to.

God made us in his image, sure enough, but did he create more is a question we shall NEVER EVERY KNOW.

God made the universe for life (us humans, for one) to explore and wonder about, but he made it so dang big we will never know the truth about all of it.

Meself: not gonna worry about aliens unless they ask for a ride or try to invade.

But its always fun to think about, and that can hardly be counted as me sinning against God and Jesus.

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yeah, im a little crazy
Check out my crazy sig that I made:

(All of this isn't in response to you Realm, I'm just blabbering on and on )

Yeah I also think that one of the reasons God created the universe and nature as it exists, was in order for us to explore it and find things out. BUT, I believe He did this in order for us find Him through it. It's like His fingerprints. Through science and observation, we don't find any proof of aliens or proof for evolution, but instead we find that the universe and ourselves are powerfully and wonderfully created by someone who is Amazingly Intelligent and infinitely powerful. Actually the more that is uncovered through science the more clearly we see God and how powerful and amazing He really is...

I remember reading something about how some alien seekers are searching for intelligent radio signals from outerspace... if they could just receive one intelligent signal that made sense in some way and wasn't completely random, then they'd have proof for there being an intelligent cause of the signal... but they do all of this and yet somehow fail to realize that inside their own bodies are intelligent signals, efficiently built devices, living cells that work together in order to fight against intruding threats, etc... Why do they not say that these intelligent signals (and etc..) have an intelligent cause? Interesting eh?

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They will know that we are Christians by our love.

Unless God makes a promise that he will never do something I'd rather believe that all things are possible with God.

God is not obligated to tell us anything. His word is a means for his spirit's work in our lives, and to communicate the story of our redemption. I'm guessing that aliens don't have a major role in our redemption.

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it's pronounced "tonics"

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited March 30, 2007).]

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

We say that "firmament" means sky, heaven, heavens and universe. We do so because of what we see with our eyes right now. But exegetically (meaning what-you-see-is-what-you-get), it seems that the entire universe was once right above us.

*edit--more*

...and everything outside of the earth was simply a void. Later on in the Bible, the "sea above the sky" (Gen 1:7) becomes damaged and falls, turning into the rain of the Flood.

If our original assumption (of the universe being contained in the sky) is correct, then the period of the Flood would be the time when the lights created in Gen 1 escape the firmament and float out into space. Using what we know from science, the lights would have expanded into gasses, and the gasses into planets.

*edit -- more*

All the life that God created is accounted for in Genesis and comes from the earth. He did not create any race other than the ones mentioned in Genesis. There is no "back up" race, in case mankind doesn't make it. Nor was there any race before us--we're not the back up race. God created us out of love and said "That's it. These are my children." He proves it by giving everything he had, up to his very life, which he did not give for any other race. This is addressed in Hebrews, chapter 1. Of particular interest is verse 2, which says God made the worlds/universe through the Son. (It directly refers to other worlds.) Also, verse 13, which says that God did not say to any angel "Sit at my right hand." Although this addresses angels, and not aliens, the root thought is the same. People at the time were wondering about angels and needed to be set straight about their place--humans are the children of God, but not angels. Nor, by exrapolation, has God said to any hypothetical aliens "Sit at my right hand."

If our assumption is correct (that all the universe was at one time contained in the sky) then the only alien race that could possibly be out there had to come from the earth. The races are: human, animal, demonic/angelic, and the nephylim. Let's look at each one.

The bible says that demons and angels exist in Heaven or the Abyss, at times visiting the earth or roaming about in it. Neither Heaven nor the Abyss is another planet. If alien sightings and alien abductions are demonic, then these "aliens" cannot be from another planet--they are merely demons roaming the earth causing heavy dillusions. This is not to say that mankind couldn't land on another planet and be assaulted by a demonic dillusion there, believing the planet to be populated by aliens. It could happen, but the original question "Is there life on other planets." would rule out demons--they don't live on other planets as a race that we could discover. Angels don't cause such heavy dillusions. When visiting people, they take the form of men, not aliens. This is told in Hebrews 13:2 and also in the account of Sodom and Gomorrah in Genesis and the birth of Samson in Judges 13. Angels would not appear as an alien race, nor would we find them inhabiting a planet somewhere.

Let's look at humans. We humans were trying to reach the heavens with the tower of Babel and God saw that we had the ability to do it, so He confused our language so that we failed. If the original assumption is correct (that the entire universe was in the sky) then the newly-forming planets and expanding gas masses would have been very close to the earth right after the Flood, and "reaching the heavens" would be a tangible goal, not merely a figurative goal of reaching of the heavens by building a city in mockery of God. God did not say "They will be able to do anything they want, in a figurative sense." If He did mean "in a figurative sense," then confusing our language did nothing to stop us--we have already assaulted God in every which imaginable way, achieving every figurative height, exalting ourselves above Him. He was talking about us humans literally being able to do anything. At Babel, we were literally building a city that could reach the heavens.

God is the same yesterday, today and tomorrow and there are massive cities currently on the earth and many of them make a mockery of God and figuratively reach the heavens. God does not destroy these cities, nor confuse our language further. When the U.S. landed on the moon, mankind had finally reached the heavens. God did not confuse our language further so that we could not achieve it. Babel was an exceptional case because it was going to succeed in literally reaching the heavens. BUT, we failed. This was our only possible chance in history to hitch a ride on a newly-forming planet and create another race of humans somewhere in the universe and it didn't happen. There are no human races on other planets.

So, this leaves animals and nephilym yet to ponder.

It's possible that an animal--maybe 2 birds or something--got caught up in a gas nebula within the earth's atmosphere and rode it out into space as it solidified into a life-sustaining planet. Even in this crazy assumption, not only would the 2 birds need to be sustained, but also, a seed (so they'd have something to eat). Possibly, a whole ecosystem--another "Noah's arc" right after the first one. God says that He preserves both man and beast, and this would be a miraculous fufillment of scripture. However, there would most likely not be any humans on this planet.

The Nephilym are a race of cross breeds between fallen angels and humans. They are reportedly very tall and strong, but probably not strong enough to jump from the earth and land on a newly-forming planet. Besides which, they would need a bunch of seeds and animals to populate the planet. No nephilym are reported to have wings. It's highly improbable that Nephilym could have populated a planet.

Exegetically from the Bible, it is most unlikely that there are other alien races. If there is another race out there, it originated on the earth, and it is there to be discovered by humans for the purpose of glorifying God.

But if we're talking about making a game or something (this is a coding site, still, right?) then these far-fetched scenarios could be used as backdrops for a game about Christians in the future.

[This message has been edited by JeTSpice (edited March 31, 2007).]

they are commonly referred to as Angels.

I see absolutely no reason why there isn't anymore life out there.

as for chance of inhabitable planets, well, life adapts.
an inhabitable planet for us might be habitable for others.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

In this, creation was perfect, it was flawless, there were no errors, there was no death. But these, being man, fell and brought into this realm the existence of sin and death. This does not pertain to just only Earth but all creation, it has all become imperfect and is undergoing rapid deterioration. So if there were life on other worlds, it would experience the same condition that man brought into the universe.

Only things outside this creation are not directly effected such as God and the Angels since the Angels are created of the heavenly and not of the Earthly or Universal plane. But animals and all the rest of creation is effected by the sin of one man, Adam, whether it be on Earth or on planet Zormugin III.

Now the bible only speaks of Angels and Humans so that is the extent of creation, so I stick with that for it seems to be the full implement of God's purpose, otherwise He would need to die on a cross for every planet and somehow all planets would have needed to fall into sin at the same moment. Would it be fair to experience the consequences of a fallen nature because the Zithorthians on Planet Drago IX took the forbidden fruit of the pineapple tree?

But do the Lispians manage to traverse interstellar travel in their multidimensional space ships? No, but Angels certainly can. Since Angels exist and strange flying contraption are in fact mentioned in the bible (see Ezekiel's Wheel) they certainly can be behind the appearance of “UFO's” that plague our atmosphere. Though I think good Angels have access to such contraptions for reasons beyond my comprehension (though I really want one too!), certainly Fallen Angels are able to do such things if for anything to bring forth confusion for their ultimate plan (e.g. to rule the World) by way of deception.

It's easy to surmise what will happen. The AC will say it's time for peace and that the “intergalactic community” is willing to help us if we just surrender to His new order of things. Space ships will openly fly through the air, strange looking creatures will get out and say “live long and prosper” and the hoards of silly Humans will line up to receive the mark on their right hand or forehead (i.e. RFID chip with ID database and trackable by satellite).

Now I think it's fun and imaginative to conceive thoughts of life on other planets, no harm in that, but we must always keep in mind that the reality of our predicament does not really provide a real foothold in that it is simply the imagination at work in regards to actual intellectual life on other planets.

Incidentally, this is my general thinking for the idea in regards to any form of evolution, sin did not enter the world until Adam fell in the Garden of Eden, so how did all these “dinosaurs” die before Adam? They didn't, there was no death until that time. Not on this planet nor any other, it was all perfect. Adam lived to be about 1000 years old, so do the math and you will find that creation is not billions of years old. But once you go outside the bible, try to say it's older, that life evolved on other planets, than it throws off the balance of what God Himself told us concerning the way that it really came about. Takes blind faith to believe in anything else, a blind faith that conflicts with the faith of eyes wide open through the Holy Spirit.

there you go, grammatical errors and all (edits some spellink errors), typed it up fast though, could expand it to a book deal, easily

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited March 31, 2007).]

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but we must always keep in mind that the reality of our predicament does not really provide a real foothold in that it is simply the imagination at work in regards to actual intellectual life on other planets

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Very interesting perspective and statement, though a bit too absolute for me. What if it isn't the imagination. You seem fairly certain of something the Bible doesn't state with certainty, I am curious where this confidence in this being the true case comes from?

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Now the bible only speaks of Angels and Humans so that is the extent of creation, so I stick with that for it seems to be the full implement of God's purpose

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I am also curious as to where you get God's purpose for existence and the universe from?

Just wanted to clarify that I'm not trying to challenge your statements, I am honestly curious where these statements and concepts are stemming from.

I also have a question for those that believe in a theory along the lines that if the bible didn't mention it then it doesn't exist.

The bible doesn't talk about many years of Jesus' youth and how he aged, does this mean he didn't experience those years and actually must have grown faster than other people? Or maybe it wasn't deemed as important pieces of knowledge for the general purpose of the Bible. To me this seems more important than life on other planets, I mean many years of Jesus' life that we don't know about... Jesus the most important and key figure in our salvation. Yet we can accept that it doesn't contain information crucial to our salvation so was left out... though we might not consider that for other things, like intelligent life on other planets? In any case I ask these questions because I don't understand that perspective and am curious of there are aspects of it I didn't consider, so if someone has answers to these I am extremely curious and really would like to consider this perspective more.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

quote:

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Originally posted by Matt Langley:
Very interesting perspective and statement, though a bit too absolute for me. What if it isn't the imagination. You seem fairly certain of something the Bible doesn't state with certainty, I am curious where this confidence in this being the true case comes from?

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I think you can get that from Gen 1:28,29 which I quoted earlier. This universe was created for men. There can't be an equal/rival to man in [this] universe. Can God create everything he wants,i.e intelligent life that is on the same footing or surpasses us? Sure. But I don't think he did it here, in this creation. If he would have done that our civilizations would intersect sooner or later and we would reach conflict (i.e. for resources)
Faith's observations on the consequences steaming from what the Bible says about Jesus are valid IMO. Jesus is the one through which 'all things came into being'. That would mean that all zergs and borgs out there would have came into creation through Jesus. Yet the Bible says that Jesus was 'the son of men', he isn't the son of zerg or the son of borg. It's obvious man has a privileged place in Gods eyes if he calls Jesus 'the son of man'(John 1:51). At the second coming the 'government' of Jesus is made of men , if the government had other 'species' they would've been mentioned.
There are many teachings in the Bible IMO that don't bond with the belief that there is other intelligent life coexisting with us in this creation.

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited April 01, 2007).]

As for the youth of Jesus, the bible does actually speak of his youth on a couple occasions, the rest is centered around his ministry that started when he was in his 30’s. I suppose that is 30 actual human years, not dog years or anything like that. If all His pre-ministry ordeals were recorded, all the books in the world could not contain it nor the world itself the many books. There is enough written as is which goes unstudied by many.

John 21:24 This is the disciple [John] who testifies of these things, and wrote these things; and we know that his testimony is true. 25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which if they were written one by one, I suppose that even the world itself could not contain the books that would be written. Amen.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited April 01, 2007).]

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

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A Moderate Fan Boy

[This message has been edited by Super Angel Steve (edited April 01, 2007).]

Well Steve, to someone else it might make perfect sense that God didn't create life anywhere but Earth(and Heaven, of course).

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Originally posted by Super Angel Steve:
It wouldv'e made no sence if God made all of those planets and didn't create life for them.

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God did not create a big universe. In Genesis chapter 1, the entire universe is contained within the sky--all the stars and two great lights. Understanding this is paramount to understanding if there is life on other planets. After the flood, the universe expanded to what it is today.

Hebrews chapter 1 refers to our place in the universe. Verse 2 actually refers to Jesus as the creator of the worlds (or creator of the universe). And verse 13 says that God did not call angels his sons. We can easily extrapolate this to mean that there are no other children of God in the universe.

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Understanding this is paramount to understanding if there is life on other planets.

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What if you are understanding it wrong. My biggest problem with accepting any man who says the Bible says there is no intelligent life on other planets is that its man's interpretations of the Bible. On top of that it's man's interpretation of God's message into words and then again man's interpretation (many many generations in a completely different culture I might add) of that interpreted message. Now I can go along with the argument that the people God chose to write the books of the Bible might have been steered by God's will to be more correct than a normal man (man in the context of the human species). Though I still don't buy that you men have perfectly interpreted the message and will of God. In fact if you do believe in what the Bible says then you must accept that you are not perfect and that you may be incorrect. That means your absolute statements are in fact not absolute but dependent upon you not being incorrect (which is entirely possible considering how often man is incorrect in attempting to interpret the will of God). In fact I find it a bit disappointing that followers and believers in God would think they understands God's will and intention without possible error.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

God laid out the plan and informed us of it, explained the groups that are in heaven when that plan progresses to begin fully unfolding as it were. I seriously doubt He held anything back when telling us about creation, future events, the things he told us about heaven or those that will be spending eternity in hell. There is only one plan for salvation (not even the Angels partake of it), only one New Jerusalem that will come down on one planet, Earth, only one throne of God, only one bride of Christ. God gave enough info in the scriptures so that we may know these things, to be right about it, yes. The problem is when people read in something that is not there, or simply do not believe the bible in some cases, often times that path is, which is often the popular path, that people error. Going with what scripture outlines should not be the biggest problem, should not be a problem at all.

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I’m pretty confident that God would have told us about it

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The flaw of this equation being you... not meant offensively but once you enter man into an equation it is then open for error. If you accept this (not accepting this would be saying we are perfect) then you must accept that you are possibly incorrect.

Those who slaughtered innocents in the Crusades in the name of Jesus and the Lord thought absolutely that they were correct. To many of us they seem foolish and murderers (many of them at least)... to them they thought the same as you did. They were confident they had it right. Thats the key thing to keep in mind, you must always except you may be wrong, once you don't then you have already turned away from God.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

I really don't think God tells us everything, In fact many things we probably wouldn't be able to understand. Though they may be important, so if it isn't in the Bible then it must not be possible?

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

The bible does not cover life on other planets, it’s not in the plan as laid out by the bible. What you are talking about is believing in an addition to the plan, that does not exist in the bible. That is how cults are formed. Just how do you add that to the book of Revelation? I know I’m not wrong, the idea conflicts with the bible on many levels, one must rework the bible to include beings on other planets, they simply do not exist, period.

The reason why all those people murdered, if you are talking about the RCC (which were not all Christians nor the only Christians) was because they didn’t believe the bible, they read their own things into it, nothing more. They denied their followers to actually see for themselves what scripture had to say, it was a thing only for their priests and they believed that they could add anything they wanted (i.e. Indulgences, Purgatory, etc..). I’m not sure how you think you are turning that around on me, my stance is not to read things into the bible, I am certainly a literalist, those are the types that would be covered in my previous post in regards to not believing the bible or reading things into it which often supersedes the existing text or confuses the meaning. Far more dangerous than simply believing the literal bible at face value. Many things I am uncertain about, but on this matter of Aliens it is pretty apparent and really fits in best with the end-times deception rather than actual beings on some other planet.

You are not a Mormon, are you? I ask because the belief in life on other planets and then the mention of heretical practices by what some call the Christian church, well prompts the question.

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The plan that he didn’t mention and that does not fit with what was mentioned.

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No... what I'm saying is maybe the plan in the Bible isn't the whole plan, but the part of it that we need to know for now. I mean considering eternity our life on this planet is a flicker. So it makes perfectly logical sense that God would only give us what we need to know for now. In fact if you consider how long eternity is compared to our mere existence here then if God gave us his entire plan for everything we would probably spend our entire lives trying to digest even the smallest sliver of it.

In the end none of that is my main consideration and curiosity. I just find it very prideful and ego driven to think you can define that the Bible is God's entire plan... well mainly considering God is the only one who can define that. I'm now saying you shouldn't have your own beliefs and ideas on the matter... but you should recognize them as that. What if you are wrong and God just gave us the most important and immediate information in the Bible... what if his entire plan makes the plan in the Bible seem like just the very beginning of it. I mean it definitely makes sense... you don't take a baby and explain how they will go through elementary school, junior high (or middle school), then move on to High School, then they could go to College and get a Bachelor's degree in Computer Science (or equiv.), then get an entry level job in a Tech company, work there way up and become an exec all the while devoting plenty of time to contributing to the Lord's work. I mean that would be pointless.

In fact God typically gives us conviction step by step, he leads us through one door, then another. He doesn't give us his entire plan for us. If he doesn't do that anywhere else, why would he in the Bible?

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

Yes, I believe God told us the full plan, He held nothing back nor kept it a secret, after all it is those that follow him, humans not aliens, that will inherit all things. I am not a co-inheritor with aliens, if it were so than God would have said we would be sharing the inheritance with aliens.. or what ever one would call them.

Sounds like a raw deal for them, not only do they suffer for the sin of Mankind, but there is no rescue for them and no inheritance. Now if you are Mormon than I can get an idea of how you think this works, because as the way things are it just doesn’t.

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Why are you at it again? Did I do something wrong to you at some point that you keep doing this? You still mad because I don’t like Torque (for many reasons) and prefer irrlicht and BlitzBasic?

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Huh? lol I barely remember that. I was talking about the discussion and trying to evaluate my difficulties with your stance. I guess you were carrying on an ancient debate we had?

You ask why I'm at it again... we were in a discussion. I have questions to your statement. I guess you could either answer them, express they have no answers, ignore me, or apparently ask why I am "at it again".

I'll make a note that if you make a point you don't expect someone to challenge it.

Here are my last responses to you, in general, since apparently you want to pose a challenging concept but not be posed a challenging concept.

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Now if you are Mormon than I can get an idea of how you think this works, because as the way things are it just doesn’t.

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I am very much not a Mormon. In fact I have done very extensive research and studies into the fallicy of Mormonism (to present to a friend). I am very knowledgeable into the foundations of Mormonism and the past and current beliefs... I also see very little reason why you keep bringing that up... there are a few minor things that they believe that would support alien life moreso than us... though not much reason why we would argue against in, since again the Bible doesn't say there isn't alien life, it simply doesn't say there is, quite a huge difference.

Thats like saying since Jesus never told me to not go to an internet porn show specifically then it must be ok. Jesus would know of everything in the future and would've warned us... that seems to be a very situational way to look at things.

Also I still find your absolution on the issue when the Bible doesn't say specifically there is no life on other planets. Apparently you believe you are the authority of God's plan and can perfectly decipher it. The simple point I've been trying to make is you should realize that no man is perfect which means you could be wrong. Then again you haven't responded to most of my points and think we are rehashing an ancient (and nearly forgotten) debate, so why am I surprised.

Well God Bless and I hope you rely in God's wisdom in the future and accept that you may be incorrect, that's the only way to learn something new if it is opposed to what you already think it is.

ADD: I strongly believe there could be intelligent life on other planets, as well as many other beings other than us, the Lord, and angels. Though I do accept I could be wrong, which is why I asked you questions. I don't fool myself into thinking I know everything absolutely, though I do have strong convictions and beliefs. Though the second I dismiss that I may be wrong I am being completely unlogical, because logic would dictate that you must always consider the possibility that you are wrong, otherwise you are not being logical. This especially holds true for us Christians considering we do believe we are not perfect, which means we must consider we could be incorrect, otherwise we are defying the word of God and everything he has told us.

EDIT: lol I'm an edit-aholic =0 If you really think I was trying to attack you then I apologize Faith_Warrior. I quite honestly think you came accross the way I posed my questions, I truly was curious in your answers. I did phrase things a bit bluntly, but I believe in being honest. Again I was simply enjoying a discussion between us, even if we did have opposing views, though I definately did not mean it in any way the way you took it. Not even close. I have also long passed the previous debate we had. I really don't care how you feel about Torque. Just because I work for GG does not mean I am mindlessly single minded towards Torque alone...

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

[This message has been edited by Matt Langley (edited April 02, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Matt Langley (edited April 02, 2007).]

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I'll make a note that if you make a point you don't expect someone to challenge it.

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Umm… yes I don’t appreciate someone challenging me by suggesting that I am not a Christian because I don’t agree with them.

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once you don't then you have already turned away from God

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So yeah, keep making those notes I guess…

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Umm… yes I don’t appreciate someone challenging me by suggesting that I am not a Christian because I don’t agree with them.

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I never said you were not a Christian... not once, not indirectly or directly.

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Why is it that because I definitely believe that there are no aliens is considered turned away from God while your opposite stance of their being aliens is obviously infallible and thus ok?

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This seems like a very cheap blow... because you quoted only part of what I said and then added the rest... let me give you the full statement you are responding to.

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Thats the key thing to keep in mind, you must always except you may be wrong, once you don't then you have already turned away from God.

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Now I never mention aliens or life on other planets in there... *sigh*... though keep the blows coming on things I did not say, if it makes you feel better.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

So let me just end this here, this is not getting either of us anywhere. I apologize for anything I may have said that would be offensive to you. Please accept my apology as a brother in Christ and we can move on in peace like mature people who have a difference of opinion, though respect eachother's stances.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

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Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
Why are you at it again? Did I do something wrong to you at some point that you keep doing this? You still mad because I don’t like Torque (for many reasons) and prefer irrlicht and BlitzBasic? Why do you think, say or imply that I am egotistical, ego driven, fallen away from God because I recognize that aliens are in fact not in the bible and do not fit with God’s plan as he told us of it.

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I really don't understand why you keep saying he has something with you. He said

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I just find it very prideful and ego driven to think you can define that the Bible is God's entire plan... well mainly considering God is the only one who can define that.

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That put aside I will get for a brief moment back to this statement:

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I just find it very prideful and ego driven to think you can define that the Bible is God's entire plan...

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Well that's what He's saying not us. The Bible speaks about God the Father, Jesus Christ, the Holly spirit, angels and humans, period. That's all you must and should know. Talking about other species opens the door for stinky things, i.e. if there are other intelligent beings in the universe maybe they can help us get out of the trouble and we don't need Jesus. Maybe we should stop all our activities and put all our efforts and resources into building a giant telescope or radio to contact them, once they'll know we're here they will come and fix all our problems. Oh wait maybe they are here already and if they don't let us see them than it's because they want to manipulate us, maybe we live in some sort of Matrix where everything is an illusion?
The belief in other intelligent life is toxic. Basically it just does one thing: weakens your belief and trust in Jesus.
My stance is that intelligent alien life comes against Jesus and what the Bible says about Him. Your interpretation of the Bible is too liberal.

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a good gameplay is a right combination between performance and features.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited April 03, 2007).]

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The belief in other intelligent life is toxic. Basically it just does one thing: weakens your belief and trust in Jesus.
My stance is that intelligent alien life comes against Jesus and what the Bible says about Him. Your interpretation of the Bible is too liberal.

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Very well said. I can definately relate and understand that and mostly agree. What I would disagree with is that it can only weaken your belief in Jesus. Though I do agree that many people that focus on "needing to know" focus to much on it and it causes them to lose focus in many other things, from Jesus to reality lol. I think a healthy curiosity and considering is good, that seems to be a common state of the human mind. We also have various things in our history that 'could' imply alien life. If you dig in and research those things you come up with a question though, so in the end you have to put it in God's hands that if there is alien life it is in his plan and we don't need to know right now. So in the end I still don't think it matters whether there is alien life, I think it doesn't effect our relationshsip with the Lord one bit, I also think don't think it goes against the message of the Bible, just simply doesn't have anything to do with the Bible. What would alien life have to do with our salvation? nothing right, well then they wouldn't be mentioned in the Bible, which they aren't. Well either that or they don't exist like you say

In any case I respect your opinion and can relate with it.

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What I get from it is that everyone who believes that the Bible is God's entire plan has prideful and ego driven attitude.

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Thanks for interpreting closer to how it was meant. It definately wasn't targeted at Faith_Warrior. Though I am sorry that it came across that way since I didn't mean it like that... Let me take a moment and correct myself:

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I just find it very prideful and ego driven to think you can define that the Bible is God's entire plan... well mainly considering God is the only one who can define that. I'm now saying you shouldn't have your own beliefs and ideas on the matter... but you should recognize them as that.

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I wasn't trying to imply that anyone who thought the Bible is God's entire plan is prideful and ego driven... what I was saying is anyone who thinks they absolutely know God's entire plan (whether it be the Bible or some prophecy or interpretation of their own) is prideful and ego driven. That includes me. If I said without a doubt there has to be alien life because the Bible says this *insert scripture here* then I would qualify for that. I also admit I have been guilty of that myself at times. I think it's those times we need to step back and realize that what we believe God is saying and/or the Bible is saying is simply what we "think" him or it says. With a perspective like this we are open to the chance we are wrong (which considering none of us are perfect we must all have a chance to be wrong) and in the case that we are wrong we can then correct ourselves or at least be open in that case.

A good example is when people thought the world was flat... Christians too. They thought without a doubt that the world was flat and laughed at anyone who said it was otherwise. We think that's silly... though in the future people may say the same about this argument we are having now. What if there is life on other planets that is part of God's overall plan that we don't understand? Does it matter, no, though to keep ourselves from being close minded just like the people who "knew" the world was flat, we must keep a small gap in all of our ideas allowing for the possibility of error... otherwise we will be the people saying the "world is flat without a doubt" just like the Bible's message says this without a doubt.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

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Originally posted by Calin:
I really don't understand why you keep saying he has something with you.

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Yes, I do believe that God gave his full plan and that we can be 100% right about many things. As I said, I don’t have all the answers concerning ALL things, yet this does not preclude me from the understanding through discernment which is a promise bestowed by the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Just because people murdered others in the name of Christ does not hinder me from understanding absolutes from God’s word, it does not suggest that in all things I must accept relativism in any form.

But lets keep in context of the thread, this isn‘t about everything but all is directed towards the OP, this we are talking about is concerning life on other planets, using the “throwing out the baby with the bath water” idiom to make a case for life on other planets I find to be in error and strong arming is no better. I believe that believing in alien life is an error, not because there is a passage that says “There is no life on other planets” but because it is not cohesive with scripture and in many areas causes conflict with God’s revealed plan. I’ve made many points on that that are sound to me and to others. In that I am certain that there are no alien beings out there besides the Angels which the Bible does well represent within the texts, for God created them too, I account that to being an absolute. But then again isn’t the opposite stance an absolute? If one truly believes in relativism, how can one say that it is an absolute concerning the existence of life on other planets? Of course in such a position one would probably take a relative position from their point of view, but this does not negate an absolute position of another that life does not exist on other planets. That is of course the major flaw in relativism, relativism is an absolute. So to make a case that there are no absolutes, that man cannot know the absolutes from the bible thus must adhere to a relative outlook, is an absolute.

2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Proverbs 30:5 Every word of God is pure; He is a shield to those who put their trust in Him.

1st Corinthians 2:6 However, we speak wisdom among those who are mature, yet not the wisdom of this age, nor of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing. 7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, the hidden wisdom which God ordained before the ages for our glory, 8 which none of the rulers of this age knew; for had they known, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory. 9 But as it is written:
“ Eye has not seen, nor ear heard,
Nor have entered into the heart of man
The things which God has prepared for those who love Him.”
10 But God has revealed them to us through His Spirit. For the Spirit searches all things, yes, the deep things of God.

Absolutes through maturity by the workings of the Holy Spirit.

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That is of course the major flaw in relativism, relativism is an absolute. So to make a case that there are no absolutes, that man cannot know the absolutes from the bible thus must adhere to a relative outlook, is an absolute.

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I find this extremely hillarious... mainly because I am an Objectivist Christian... and if you understand the philosophy of Objectivism you will understand why I find it funny you are realting to me and relativism.

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I believe that believing in alien life is an error, not because there is a passage that says “There is no life on other planets” but because it is not cohesive with scripture and in many areas causes conflict with God’s revealed plan.

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My point being :

" but because it is not cohesive with scripture and in many areas causes conflict with God’s revealed plan."

In all honesty it's not necissarily that it isn't cohesive, it's that you don't think it's cohesive. You can claim it's this way or that way all day, but in the end its your opinion, an opinion you can attempt to prove, though your proof is not absolute, the proof you have presented is simply your interpretation (yes relative since everyone in this chat can interpret it a different way) of what is said... while I may think it implies something completely different. Hence you can say I'm wrong and I can say you're wrong, though in the end we both could be wrong...

This is all I will say in response to you... I really don't want to get into it. Most of what I say you interpret as an attack, yet I definately don't mean it as such (another representation of relative interpretation) so it's better to just step away and remain at peace with eachother.

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Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

*Casino Martian opens up at CCN...*

But really - if God did actually create life on planets other than Earth - that's obviously outside just about everything in the Bible.
Only terrestrials would be under the curse of sin.

And also, it doesn't seem to be likely that we'll contact them anytime soon, so I don't think I really care that much.

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Does the .30 cal have a cell broadband engine?
No...but it's multi-platform and has an easy to use point and click interface.

If you read my original proof, you'll see that I prefice it frequently throughout with "If this assumption is correct." So my apologies concerning the abruptness of the synopsis. The original entry was written in 3 chunks and by the time I had completed it, the thread had moved on and it went largely unread. The synopsis ommitted references like "if this assumption is correct" for the sake of brevity.

And reading it again, I see that there are a number of logic jumps. (However, no one has grabbed hold of these to refute the theory.)

@all
"The Word is foolishness to the Greeks." How, then, can we use worldly systems of thinking to prove the Word? We would only end up disproving it. So when we debate, we should use Scripture. But if any of you lack wisdom, ask God for it, because He freely gives it out.

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
But really - if God did actually create life on planets other than Earth - that's obviously outside just about everything in the Bible.
Only terrestrials would be under the curse of sin.

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
And also, it doesn't seem to be likely that we'll contact them anytime soon, so I don't think I really care that much. [/B]

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I’m not a prophet, just a student of Bible prophecy, but it’s amazing how the world is caught up in the idea of alien life. What if “aliens” landed on Earth now, how would the world react? What would humans be willing to give up to benefit from these “aliens from another planet”? I do believe this is just the deception that will come upon the Earth shortly. The Antichrist will have the power to deceive the World through signs and wonders, with “aliens” at his command it will be a little thing to persuade the world to follow his command since the world is all ready for such a massive deception now. They will obviously say “See?! There was no Adam and Eve, we made you! We exist thus the bible is just fiction.”. But who will these “aliens” really be? Aliens do not exist so they will be…