I would like to give a bit of my background and context before I start asking my questions.
I had been involved professionaly in the pc game industry for almost 2 years, and I have been quite socially involved with the IGDA community for almost 2 years as well.
I really enjoy the game development due to its complexity and challenging problems but I have failed to see how games could help in the expansion of God's kingdom.
To my knowledge, I have never heard games could be used as an effective tool in evangelization nor Biblical worldview development.

I really would like to know other Christians' view and perspective in this issue.
And I would like to hear some success stories of Christian games that have successfully bringing glory to our Lord, Jesus Christ.

Thank you

------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

You ask some great questions. I might as well jump in with my couple cents or so.

How can game development be involved in the expansion of God's kingdom?

Well, I think that anyone in any industry is called to be a Christlike example in their workplace. In that sense, working for a game co. should be no different from working for General Mills. Jesus says that his kingdom works its way into everything, pervasively, like yeast. I think that that's true both on a personal level - that Christ's lordship extends over every facet of our lives, and on a global level - that Christ's kingdom works its way through all parts of the earth. We should not sequester ourselves into Christian huddles and only work for Christian companies.

Clint likes to point out that games aren't "saved" (neither are companies, for that matter) - games have not accepted Christ as Savior of their souls, games have not asked forgiveness for their sins, etc. But did God "wire" people, so to speak, for games? I think so. I think we do ourselves a disservice when we try to make "Christian" games vs "secular" games. People who do so typically end up trying too hard to make games do something that games weren't particularly designed for. When people start talking about "Christian" games, you start expecting them to evangelize, train up in righteousness, etc., etc.

Instead, I think we should make games that do what games were meant to do (and different people probably feel differently about what that is). A few things that I suspect games are "for":
-enjoyment
-a good time spent with others, whether competing against (as in chess), or working together (as in playing house)
-challenge/exercise of skills

On the other hand, games are not for escaping from responsibilities, or for fantasizing about immoral behaviors, for example.

In short, games are not to be idolized - given an improper priority in our lives. I don't think that we can make games and keep that from happening, but neither can one make anything legitimate and bar all illegitimate uses. A gunsmith can't ensure that no one will use his guns to commit murder, but I still think that well-made guns, used rightly, are a good idea, and therefore, a perfectly fine occupation for a Christian.

Regarding Biblical worldview development, I would like to see an adventure or RPG game that attempts to portray a Biblical worldview. Whether or not it develops a Biblical worldview is contingent on God's spirit working in a person's heart, but since the neo-Buddhists appear to have pervaded many adventure/RPGs, I would like to see how it would work to construct an adventure that is based on more truth.

I am interested in hearing more thoughts on this.

Again, welcome!

------------------
it's pronounced "tonics"

[This message has been edited by tonnyx (edited January 30, 2007).]

You ask some great questions.

Tonnyx said just about everything that I would want to say, but I just wanted to second that -- games don't love people -- people love people. Sharing Christ's love with other people is a real and visceral thing, and we can't just program automotons to go out into the world and do the hard work of the Great Commission for us.

All that said, I still think there is value in creating games that are explicitly labeled as "Christian" (even though, as Tonnyx said, I feel it's a misnomer). There is much value in using games as a discipleship tool to train our churched kids up in righteousness -- not that I expect the game to do the hard work for me -- but I still think they could be a valuable supplement. But I'm very interested in putting better content (not just from a moral standpoint, but more importantly from an accurate worldview) into games, and entertainment in general. </rant>

Cheers! Again, welcome to CCN!

In Christ,
clint

I think that in movies, books, and games that the stories are birthed from the beliefs, and the creative imaginations of the developer. If the developer is a Christian, then I'd think that their projects or the message of their projects would to an extent reflect what's in their heart. But like HanClinto and tonnyx say, games aren't Christians, and games can't love people. I'd say that developers can pour themselves into their projects, and if they do that then eye-opening messages can possibly be communicated... To sum my world view of game development up for Christians... I'll say this: Seek God's will, and express through your designs what He has put in your heart!

------------------
They will know that we are Christians by our love.

On the subject of your post, my concept is similar to Clint's and Tonnyx's. First of all I do not think that games of any kind can in any conceivable and practically planned way expand the Kingdom of God. It is possible that some, in some cases, may; but if it happens then it will not be because someone designed it to do so.
I view my game making just as I view novel writing, not as an expander of God's Kingdom, but as an expression of God's Kingdom, or at least the part of it that is in me. I recently wrote a paper of English, just writing for the fun of it, and it ended up very good. My teacher enjoyed it allot and I might be publishing it soon in an academic journal. However, when I read the story, there's allot of spiritual imagery in it, allot of expression of my own experiences with God in the form of a fiction story. I didn't mean to add these, they just showed up as a part of me, and therefore a part of the story that I wrote partially from my own experience.
I view "Christian" games the same way. It's not about replication of an ideal or set of ideals, it's about relationship, allowing your relationship with God to so totally soak you and enthrall you that you can't help it, things just happen, like any other person writing a novel, or a movie, or a poem, God becomes a part of you, and that part then becomes a part of every form of creative expression and daily life that you participate in. It's a part of the heart and spirit, not intellect and flesh, it's just the process of dying to self, and becoming Christlike, just as in any other facet of a godly life. It's nothing especially deep, it's just me and Jesus, just as it should be whether I was the next Sid Meier or Will Wright, or simply ended up stocking produce at the local grocery store till the end of my days.

------------------

The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald

Btw - would you consider emailing me a copy of that paper to read?

Oh, and glad to have you on here, Mr. Tan.

------------------

The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald

If you do decide to email it to me(I believe you know my address?), I promise I won't reveal-show-email-post-print-type-publish-talk about-hint about-even mention anything about it.

------------------

The time for speaking comes rarely, the time for being never departs.
George Macdonald

There are Christians who work in the video game industry and I believe that games would be much worse than they are if this were not true. "Christian" games can scratch the surface, but Christians working in the industry can transform it.

------------------
+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

The way people see good and evil is corrupted and you see this from secular games or movies. We know it's because they do not know God and have formed own rightneuses where order and morals are sometimes based only in the law of the country people are living in. So this same world appears in todays games but it does not only appear as it is, but the developers have a change to push their views in the game or the country's way of living. And distribute this way of life and morals globally.
Now even it's not our mission nor task to tell people what is right or wrong in order to make them change, we do have the change to show what really is right and wrong in the eyes of the almighty God because we as Christians should follow His example that is written in the Bible. This is the example of God's love to us, people, who have gone away from Him but have delivered back to Him and purified from the filth of this world. We are now living a new life as a new creations under perfect law (of love) so there is definitely something we are to do differently and aside from the flow of this world and it's lusts.
So the point here is that we can not just tell people about what really is good and about new life in Christ, which is a life under the law of God but we can also try to show them the difference in life when you are in peace.

Col 3:17
- 17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him.

I hope you find this inspiring.

------------------
1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

[This message has been edited by jari (edited January 31, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by steveth45:

There are Christians who work in the video game industry and I believe that games would be much worse than they are if this were not true. "Christian" games can scratch the surface, but Christians working in the industry can transform it.

---

Good point. This applies for everything else too.

------------------
1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

We design our games in order to convince players to accept critical ideological conditions as a foundational basis when considering the plot and the moral elements contained within. In fact, I'd say that is the Christian entertainment industry in a nutshell. We define reality within a fictional universe. Though fictional, many aspects are purposely designed to be analogous to real life. If it's a video game, we then expect players to play by the rules with the imperative to believe the basis for the fictional backdrop and behave as if it was true. In this manner real-life concepts can be introduced in an nonthreatening manner since players would be considering them within the context of the game. In the case of a book we'd still have characters consider different scenarios within the context of a Christian framework and thus readers will come to understand the logic and reason since they'd be following the viewpoint of the characters.

This is the same for other entertainment that can instead have a negative influence. But while the creators of this other entertainment may not directly contain the motive to negatively influence we obviously are motivated to be positive influences.

My personal preference is to attempt to target a Teen ESRB rating for future titles although Mack's primary goal is to make certain that certain topics (child abuse, anger control, suicide/depression, lust, etc) are discussed in adequate detail and not be worried too much about the rating. As such it's possible the ESRB may give us a Mature ESRB rating but we're not purposely seeking it. I imagine the most difficult section will be lust, although we have ideas on how to tackle that subject without unnecessary graphic displays. We've already adjusted multiple concepts for EW: Nightmares based upon feedback.

quote:

---

I really enjoy the game development due to its complexity and challenging problems but I have failed to see how games could help in the expansion of God's kingdom.
To my knowledge, I have never heard games could be used as an effective tool in evangelization nor Biblical worldview development.

---

EW:SOL could hardly be considered a "success" from a financial perspective. Nor was its productions values very high considering the non-existent budget. But on the other hand God has used our work beyond what we'd ever expected considering the limited plot, other issues, etc. We've received letters/emails detailing how people decided to visit Church after playing EW: SOL and then became saved. A teacher friend of mine lets her students play EW: SOL during break time. There have been multiple instances of kids trying to convince their parents to take them to church.

The Russian mafia also sold EW:SOL. Yes, that was lost money for us but I'm hoping some Russians got to hear a basic gospel message for the first time.

I think God can use whatever He desires to spread His Word. Even an admittedly flawed work like EW: SOL.

I wish I could join your endeavors, but my skillsets lie mostly in documentation and administation, which I am sure there are more skilled individuals in your ranks that achieve that.

------------------
"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

------------------
They will know that we are Christians by our love.

First of all, I would like thank you to everyone who has been taking the time to discuss about this.
I am sorry that I haven't been quiet for a while. It's not because that I don't want to respond it but I am still digesting what you all had said and I just haven't allocate the time to think about what my respond should be.

For now, I would like to respond with this:
I totally agree that we are called to serve Him in any place we are in.

Keep on working for Him!

[This message has been edited by MrTan (edited February 08, 2007).]