"that American foreign policies in the Middle East, especially regarding Israel and Palestine, are not reflective of genuine American interests in the region and instead reflect very influential and successful lobbying efforts on the part of Israel and American supporters of Israel."

"And what's degenerated in recent years, to a very disturbing degree, is the gross abuse of the Palestinians by the Israeli occupying powers. It's one of the most serious human-rights abuses about which I'm familiar. It aggravates and alienates not only the Palestinians and the Arab world, but most of the rest of the world."

"I'm sure you're aware that there is emerging controversy about your use of the word "apartheid" to describe the Israeli treatment of the Palestinians.
the Palestinians are horribly abused and persecuted and deprived by the Israeli policies in the West Bank."

"In the meantime, Israel has been occupying and confiscating and colonizing increasing areas of Arab territory, which in my opinion is inimical to any sort of prospect of peace for Israel."

"And I don't think there's any doubt that the key factor and one of the primary causes of intense animosity against America from so-called terrorists of different kinds is the obvious bias of the United States government against Palestinians and for Israel. So these collective factors may, in the future, bring about an honest, good-faith effort for peace as we've seen on a few occasions in the past. "

http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061126/FEATUR ES06/611260312/1010/FEATURES

----------------former Evangelical leader Ted Haggard did not do what other protestant leaders did and was soon caught in controversy.
"The biggest organizations in the movement, usually vocal backers of the Jewish state, have made no formal comment on the war in Lebanon despite pleas from Israelis that they do so." [7] Furthermore, "The Rev. Ted Haggard, president of the evangelical association, insists the inaction is not a criticism of Israel, but reflects a new caution about the risks for Christians living in Muslim countries.
http://www.answers.com/main/ntquery?s=Ted+Haggard+&gwp=13

--------------- another site says
Pastor Rick Warren, and author of the mega-best seller, “The Purpose Driven Life,” is attacked so to that the evangelical may not stray from Israel’s favor.

"Christians friendly to Israel are never supposed to acknowledge that there is a Christian culture in most Arab countries, especially Syria, where the Church of Antioch was the Apostle Paul’s first Christian outpost."

"No friend of Israel, especially an influential evangelical Christian, is supposed to visit any Arab state unless chaperoned by an Israeli. Our new Congressmens' junkets to Israel (which they are taking as we speak) are controlled shows. Never are the Congressmen afforded communications with ordinary Arab citizens in the West Bank and Gaza, unless chaperoned by Israelis who speak Arabic. Our Congressmen go to see one side! What they learn about the other side comes exclusively from their Israeli briefer."

"Evangelical pastors like Rick Warren are supposed to make their decisions about Arabs based on what Israelis show them and tell them about Gazans, Philistines, Lebanese, Iraqis and Syrians. Never can they visit an Arab home, play with Arab children, or go to an Arab school or mosque or, perish the thought, an Arab Christian Church. Few break this code, but Rick Warren did."

"Rick Warrens was moved to say what he did. Whatever he does, or whatever his core beliefs, he is right in this one thing he said for which he will bring condemnation upon himself from his own evangelical crowd. It is my prayer he will stick to it, and will not be cornered or intimidated into more fashionable lies to be like the others."

I went in to Gaza and the Arabs did not kill me, and many clearly could have. I frequently walked around inside the Gaza “gulag” all by myself, going to Internet cafés alone, to schools and businesses. Contrary to what I was told about the “animals” inside the gulag, I felt like some of them loved me just for showing up and listening to them. I also found out I love them, especially their children, and I can not imagine how an Israeli solder could pull the trigger on them."
"Rick Warren has stepped over the line and he can count on getting dozens of personal phone calls from some of the biggest names in evangelical “Christendom” to suggest he mend his ways."

----------
another site says that
"And Israel is strongly supported by a vast evangelical network, including some American churches that believe biblical prophecy calls for Jewish sovereignty over the entire Holy Land."

Obviously I disagree with evangelicals since they go with always the wrong interpretation which the early church was against every action they have done but o well.

Just another side to the story.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited November 30, 2006).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
Just another side to the story.

---

Very interesting, leave it to WaRSong to post another side to a story!

Wheter you believe it or not, Israel has very important polital and religious importance, not only now, but in the future as the end of the story comes.

KEN
Yes they have an important role but not the role you assume it to be. And lets not get the land and the people confused. When their messiah comes it will not be our messiah, which the bible gives many examples of this, so remember what Christ warns about.

God can't curse himself when he expelled Jews out, and what God gives God takes and God gives back. Other people lives on that land far longer and other lived on the land before Jews. There also many Jews which are Christian and a few non Christian Jews that are against Israel since they say that God should be the one to give it to them than force it against God's will. As you see that action only brings problems with the never ending deaths and wars going on in that region ever since.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited December 14, 2006).]

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
When their messiah comes it will not be our messiah, which the bible gives many examples of this, so remember what Christ warns about.

---

Wait, *what*?

Are you saying that the Messiah of the Jews wasn't Jesus? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the point of the book of Hebrews is showing how Jesus *is* the Christ to the Hebrew people.

Hopefully, this was just a typo on your part.

--clint

------------------

Warsong: Thank you for another side of the story, but keep from loling at other people, and flaming please. (You haven't done this yet, but this is what has happened other times)

quote:

---

"And what's degenerated in recent years, to a very disturbing degree, is the gross abuse of the Palestinians by the Israeli occupying powers. It's one of the most serious human-rights abuses about which I'm familiar. It aggravates and alienates not only the Palestinians and the Arab world, but most of the rest of the world."

---

quote:

---

"In the meantime, Israel has been occupying and confiscating and colonizing increasing areas of Arab territory, which in my opinion is inimical to any sort of prospect of peace for Israel."

---

quote:

---

"And I don't think there's any doubt that the key factor and one of the primary causes of intense animosity against America from so-called terrorists of different kinds is the obvious bias of the United States government against Palestinians and for Israel. So these collective factors may, in the future, bring about an honest, good-faith effort for peace as we've seen on a few occasions in the past. "

---

Recently I've heard about the U.S. sending more troops into Palastine to help the Palastinian (?) government, and the thanks from their leader.

quote:

---

"Christians friendly to Israel are never supposed to acknowledge that there is a Christian culture in most Arab countries, especially Syria, where the Church of Antioch was the Apostle Paul’s first Christian outpost."

---

? I fully admit that there is a Christian culture in Arab countries.

quote:

---

"No friend of Israel, especially an influential evangelical Christian, is supposed to visit any Arab state unless chaperoned by an Israeli. Our new Congressmens' junkets to Israel (which they are taking as we speak) are controlled shows. Never are the Congressmen afforded communications with ordinary Arab citizens in the West Bank and Gaza, unless chaperoned by Israelis who speak Arabic. Our Congressmen go to see one side! What they learn about the other side comes exclusively from their Israeli briefer."

---

What's the source?

quote:

---

"Evangelical pastors like Rick Warren are supposed to make their decisions about Arabs based on what Israelis show them and tell them about Gazans, Philistines, Lebanese, Iraqis and Syrians. Never can they visit an Arab home, play with Arab children, or go to an Arab school or mosque or, perish the thought, an Arab Christian Church. Few break this code, but Rick Warren did."

"Rick Warrens was moved to say what he did. Whatever he does, or whatever his core beliefs, he is right in this one thing he said for which he will bring condemnation upon himself from his own evangelical crowd. It is my prayer he will stick to it, and will not be cornered or intimidated into more fashionable lies to be like the others."

I went in to Gaza and the Arabs did not kill me, and many clearly could have. I frequently walked around inside the Gaza “gulag” all by myself, going to Internet cafés alone, to schools and businesses. Contrary to what I was told about the “animals” inside the gulag, I felt like some of them loved me just for showing up and listening to them. I also found out I love them, especially their children, and I can not imagine how an Israeli solder could pull the trigger on them."
"Rick Warren has stepped over the line and he can count on getting dozens of personal phone calls from some of the biggest names in evangelical “Christendom” to suggest he mend his ways."

---

Source?

quote:

---

"And Israel is strongly supported by a vast evangelical network, including some American churches that believe biblical prophecy calls for Jewish sovereignty over the entire Holy Land."

---

The Bible seems to clearly state that their His people in the OT. (Not Original Trilogy, Old Testament)

quote:

---

"As if Israel’s position in the world in not bad enough, a new survey published in the US Wednesday says that Israel is suffering from the worst public image among all countries of the world."

"The survey also indicated that Israel came last in each area by a long margin, including the fact that of the 36 countries ranked, there is nowhere that respondents would like to visit less than Israel."

---

Of course, to the average American seeing all this war, he wouldn't want to go into the warzone.

quote:

---

by Warsong

God can't curse himself when he expelled Jews out, and what God gives God takes and God gives back. Other people lives on that land far longer and other lived on the land before Jews. There also many Jews which are Christian and a few non Christian Jews that are against Israel since they say that God should be the one to give it to them than force it against God's will. As you see that action only brings problems with the never ending deaths and wars going on in that region ever since.

---

I'm not so sure what you mean by 1, "God can't curse himself when he expelled Jews out, and what God gives God takes and God gives back." In all of the Old Testament if they turned from God, He would punish them. And it was according to my information originally their land when God gave it to them through war.

2, "Other people lives on that land far longer and other lived on the land before Jews."
What point is this to?

3, "There also many Jews which are Christian and a few non Christian Jews that are against Israel since they say that God should be the one to give it to them than force it against God's will. As you see that action only brings problems with the never ending deaths and wars going on in that region ever since."

Who's going to go against their country, and why do you say its against God's will?

Sorry for the lack of Sources, but a lot of information I've obtained from the radio. If you want more look at Pastor. Rod Parsley's Impending Apocolypse. (I'm not so sure about Impending Apocolypse being the name of the series)
------------------
MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

[This message has been edited by Mene-Mene (edited December 14, 2006).]

Now what?

lava
Why do you ask :P

Las
Your sarcasm again is not proper. Have something good to say about the topic or ask than give a comment like that.

Han
I know what you mean and agree with you, but I am talking about who they accept as messiah than choosing Christ which Christ is the one but reject. Their messiah will be the one they ask for since Christ didn’t do what they thought he would do. As the bible says that it doesn’t matter what you are since anyone can be saved which the Jews didn’t like that. And yes many Jews did follow Christ and many Jews and non Jews got slaughter by Jew and the Romans that have been persuaded in a way by Jews.
“3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.
3:27 For as many of you as have been baptized into Christ have put on Christ. “
Was that clear? :|

Mene
I am not flaming or loling others in how you interpreted it.
http://www.xanga.com/A_A_Plewes
After the video is the article, but the 2 video says some interesting things too, which the second video interviewing a historian about the situation over their. Their is a lot to this story that is not presented well.

Two example you ask for are on the video.

Yes wars take properties but it’s much more complicated than it seems and many people owned that land and not just Muslims and Jews but Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc and some stayed their longer. But it is silly to take property in the middle of where Muslims live, kill them, and ask for peace which that is a sigh of never ending war since the other feels the victim while deionized. Muslims and Jews got along well and worked together to take down the enslave orthodox church for over 400 years to both prospered greatly, and did many other things together, but when they took land from the Muslims then all problems broke out even since.

God’s people in the OT to spread Gods but they only wanted to keep gods words for themselves and have been generally striped.

Israel and the Jews living there are places last not because of the war but have mostly been seen this way. Another poll in Europe a few years back said that the biggest threat to world peace was Israel, and the second one was the US. I guess the US cine without the US and England there would be no problems in that region. History is edited here a lot and many admit the schools and news pressured by Jewish people as the link from the Jewish guy said from the conservative site townhall or other news sources.

1 Why did God take the land away? And what conditions should he give it back? The condition was when they become Christians as some Christians Jews say.
2 the point is that they cant say it was theirs first or even longer to use those excuses. If you live at your home for 50 years and someone comes in and takes it and says it was theirs in the first place and takes your things and kicks you out is that right?
3 I answered in 1 But you are a Christians and you believe that god preaches Christian view and that Christ way is the Christian way to get it back. The means justify the ends.
----

Quote from the bible.
“8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
8:45 And because I tell you the truth, ye believe me not.
8:46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?
8:47 He that is of God heareth God’s words: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of God.
8:48 Then answered the Jews, and said unto him, Say we not well that thou art a Samaritan, and hast a devil?
8:49 Jesus answered, I have not a devil; but I honor my Father, and ye do dishonor me.”
And this and the rest of the bible is considered blasphemous by Jews. Odd that many give so much to people that want to attack Christianity which is suicidal, and suicide is a sin.

I am not saying Muslims are better since they are just as violent. they were fine where they were and not to touch them but their cage got rattled just like a pit pull in a cage and the problems never stopped. Jewish people help mMuslims to come to US, Europe and many other Christian nations which in turn help hurt Christianity.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." Shaw "Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven"
My original game for GP32