I don't really find anything wrong... but then it could just be me.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

In Christ,
Jari.

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Mat 5:6 Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

and probably the T-shirt is made to pick fun at us christian gamers, on how we do put our religion into everything.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

I will quote some verses out of the bible, I know It won't hurt anyones pride cause you are all "christians".

2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
2Ti 3:17 so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.

Eph 4:17 So I tell you this, and insist on it in the Lord, that you must no longer live as the Gentiles do, in the futility of their thinking.
Eph 4:18 They are darkened in their understanding and separated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them due to the hardening of their hearts.

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1Jn 2:17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

1Jn 1:5 This is the message we have heard from him and declare to you: God is light; in him there is no darkness at all.
1Jn 1:6 If we claim to have fellowship with him yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live by the truth.

Mk 8:38 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words in this adulterous and sinful generation, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his Father’s glory with the holy angels.”

Mt 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

1Co 9:20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
1Co 9:21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
1Co 9:22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some.

1Ti 2:1 I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—
1Ti 2:2 for kings and all those in authority, that we may live peaceful and quiet lives in all godliness and holiness.

Mt 28:19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,
Mt 28:20 and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”

Col 1:17 He is before all things, and in him all things hold together.

Now that we have seen the scripture that is God breathed.

Just like Rock'n'Roll and Heavy Metal, Gaming is not of the devil but far beyond the majority of it is secular.

Don't try to change Jesus to fit in this world, He is not of this world. Gaming is part of the world. Even "christian" games if there are any, there is a winner(s) and a loser(s). Competition is not of God. KILLING is not of God.

Just like thinking adulterous thoughts is as bad as commiting the act, so is killing. You are commiting the act in a 'harmless' game.

Paul became like the weak to win the weak. I supose in online gaming you could say, I became a gamer to win the Gamers. But I bet Paul didn't sin in order to win people over.

There is no Darkness in God, Jesus as a guild leader in games would have darkness.

It is Hardening your heart and and tolerating Jokes about Jesus. Oh, its all in good fun some might say.
Fun for who? Pray for people that Make fun of God's son.

But it seems like Non-Believers are more comfortable wearing a shirt on it that boldly says Jesus and claims that Jesus is their leader. Don't be ashamed of Jesus or when he comes back he will be ashamed of you.

Putting God, Jesus first, not putting him in things. Put Jesus first, that means infront of gaming not into gaming. Is it Gods will that you play that game? What happened to what Jesus said "GO and Make disciples of all Nations"? Are you a good influence to the other gamers in the games? Do you show people that it is not about gaining in this life but living foreger with God? If you are making TRUE Disciples in games I would be utterly amazed and say that only through God could you have done that. But I think Christian gamers Blend in. When some one says they are christian but act like everyone else, one they are not christian, and two they are saying that christians aren't unique and doing real christians a diservice.

So, PLEASE think before you think you are doing something for the Lord.

I was a gamer and I found that it was the root of a lot of my bad attitudes. I apologize if it seems like I am Judging, but rest assured if I am judging I will be judged on that day in the same way I judge others. Please forgive me if I have upset any of you. If you feel I am wrong I would Like to hear from you.

I personally Like the shirt, but if I wore it I would like people to know that I really do consider Jesus to be the leader of my Life, not just a computer game.

Either way, its best to show who your leader is by your actions.

Always Remember we are not saved by anything we do or do not do. We are saved by God's Grace. If we could save ourselves there would be no reason for Jesus to die for us.

Grace and Peace
-Daniel

[This message has been edited by pylon (edited May 26, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by pylon (edited May 26, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by pylon:

Don't try to change Jesus to fit in this world, He is not of this world.

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Amen!

quote:

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Originally posted by pylon:

It is Hardening your heart and and tolerating Jokes about Jesus. Oh, its all in good fun some might say.
Fun for who? Pray for people that Make fun of God's son.

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Amen, Jesus didn't say what He said in Mar 3:28 for nothing:

- Mar 3:28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:

It's good if you can reach unsaved people trough net games and witness to them and evangelize them but you have to abide in truth your self and not preach any other gospel than Gospel of Christ in truth. Because like said Jesus is not of this world and to understand one very important thing about Him and the cross read 1Co 1:21-27.

God bless you all who preach the truth in Christ!

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2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by pylon:

Now that we have seen the scripture that is God breathed.

Just like Rock'n'Roll and Heavy Metal, Gaming is not of the devil but far beyond the majority of it is secular.

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Im not sure this is what you meant, but Christian rock IS usualy made by Christians. At the moment Im listening to some very good worship (and regular) music by Audio Adrenaline. Alright, Im getting off subject

quote:

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Don't try to change Jesus to fit in this world, He is not of this world. Gaming is part of the world. Even "christian" games if there are any, there is a winner(s) and a loser(s). Competition is not of God. KILLING is not of God.

Just like thinking adulterous thoughts is as bad as commiting the act, so is killing. You are commiting the act in a 'harmless' game.

---

Well.. seriusly.. its just a game.. Dont try telling me trying to win a race is bad.. O_o Thats competition, and God said to race for the win. That makes cometition of God dosent it? If you have God on your side, there isnt even competition, your gonna win easy God did help to win MANY wars. Alright, sometimes its better for you to lose, but its all good in the end

quote:

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It is Hardening your heart and and tolerating Jokes about Jesus. Oh, its all in good fun some might say.
Fun for who? Pray for people that Make fun of God's son.

---

Thats very true, depending on what kind of jokes. Jesus has a sense of humor too At the moment I cant think of any Jesus jokes, but I could make one up later, without being a bad guy

quote:

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But it seems like Non-Believers are more comfortable wearing a shirt on it that boldly says Jesus and claims that Jesus is their leader. Don't be ashamed of Jesus or when he comes back he will be ashamed of you.

---

I actualy like to jump in and do stuff people make fun of me, by saying I do. For instance, my mom calls me rebelius, so Im making a t-shirt that declares "Jedz teh reblz0r". I would also be one to show off my christianity just cause people dont like it

quote:

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Putting God, Jesus first, not putting him in things. Put Jesus first, that means infront of gaming not into gaming. Is it Gods will that you play that game? What happened to what Jesus said "GO and Make disciples of all Nations"? Are you a good influence to the other gamers in the games? Do you show people that it is not about gaining in this life but living foreger with God? If you are making TRUE Disciples in games I would be utterly amazed and say that only through God could you have done that. But I think Christian gamers Blend in. When some one says they are christian but act like everyone else, one they are not christian, and two they are saying that christians aren't unique and doing real christians a diservice.

---

I was playing an online war game, and met my best frien there. She told me if she hadnt met me, she would be dead now. At the moment Im working on telling her about God.

Im not saying your totaly wrong, but it depends on the person. Too many people judge others by what happened to themselves. If you feel God pulling you away from playing games, fine, dont play the game. Personaly, I dont see anything wrong with games and music and other such things (well.. there is some I wont listen to).

Im not trying to knock you down or anything. Im sorry if I upset anyone, Im very good at that
[/QUOTE]

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

There are two important things to note about humor and God. First God does not laugh/enjoy for the death of the wicked. (Eze 18:23) Second Laughing is useless. (Ecc 2:2)

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2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

[This message has been edited by jari (edited May 27, 2006).]

The race you are running for God is not a competition against other people. Unlike games, though, it is something to be happy about winning. But the Victory was won when Christ died for us. We just have to claim it.

Ac 20:24 However, I consider my life worth nothing to me, if only I may finish the race and complete the task the Lord Jesus has given me—the task of testifying to the gospel of God’s grace.

1Co 9:24 Do you not know that in a race all the runners run, but only one gets the prize? Run in such a way as to get the prize.
1Co 9:25 Everyone who competes in the games goes into strict training. They do it to get a crown that will not last; but we do it to get a crown that will last forever.

Why do you use the scripture to try to compel a worldly arguement. Gaming is NOT the race God want you to win.

And Rock and Music, I have nothing against it, if it is done in the lords name, for the Lords glory.

Gal 5:7 You were running a good race. Who cut in on you and kept you from obeying the truth?

Heb 12:1 Therefore, since we are surrounded by such a great cloud of witnesses, let us throw off everything that hinders and the sin that so easily entangles, and let us run with perseverance the race marked out for us.

I am not telling you my opinion, I am sharing The bible with you. Have you Read the bible?

Mt 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

quote:

---

I actualy like to jump in and do stuff people make fun of me, by saying I do. For instance, my mom calls me rebelius, so Im making a t-shirt that declares "Jedz teh reblz0r". I would also be one to show off my christianity just cause people dont like it

---

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1Jn 2:17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Games about Violence are things OF THE WORLD.

I am not forming opinions based on my life and the things happening to me. I am not Judging you. I won't judge what you say and claim that you aren't a christian but I have heard enough from you to hinder me in calling you a Christian.

Mt 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

You aren't upsetting me, but you should really try to figure out if you yourself are a Christian or have just grown up in a household that is Christian.

1Th 5:21 Test everything. Hold on to the good.
1Th 5:22 Avoid every kind of evil.

Some games might not be evil. I am no Judge, but are you going to tell me that God would aprove of the games you play?

Do you even know what God wants you to do?
Do you think putting a cross or a fish on it, christianizes it?

Read the bible, or just read through the new testament. If you don't understand it, have some one explain things to you. A pastor or a parent. When you understand the bible and if you still think I am wrong, please I would love to hear what you have to say.

[This message has been edited by pylon (edited May 27, 2006).]

quote:

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you should really try to figure out if you yourself are a Christian or have just grown up in a household that is Christian.

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I dont read my Bible as much as I should, but I do know whats going on in my future.

Doing stuff cause people dont like it.. hmmm.. well its not realy the only reason, I try to do it to hook a few people, but yeah.. your right.

Some games I play, I think God dosent even care.. some Im not so sure about. I know Im not going to hell cause of the games I play though. They arent the focus of my life. Although, I do know God didnt give me gaming skills for nothing. (not that I play that much )

In the end though, nobodys perfect. Jesus is the only perfect human ever to live. Im not perfect, your not perfect. But we both try our hardest to live our lives for God.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited May 27, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited May 27, 2006).]

1Jn 2:15 Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
1Jn 2:16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.
1Jn 2:17 The world and its desires pass away, but the man who does the will of God lives forever.

Racing for goals in the world (gaming or otherwise) will all pass away. If you are Racing or doing anything in the name of the Lord, if it is God's will for you to win a race. I have no problem with it, Gaming or otherwise. But when it involves winning power, or pleasure for yourself and not for the Glory of the Lord then it is probably of the world and As the bible says Do not love the world, for the cravings, the lust and the boasting come not from the Father.

I grew up in a christian family too, I am 24 now and just beginning to become a real christian.

Mt 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.
I think this means more along the lines of be Complete. But it is still A 'be' command.

Mt 19:21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.”

Col 1:28 We proclaim him, admonishing and teaching everyone with all wisdom, so that we may present everyone perfect in Christ.

Heb 10:12 But when this priest had offered for all time one sacrifice for sins, he sat down at the right hand of God.
Heb 10:13 Since that time he waits for his enemies to be made his footstool,
Heb 10:14 because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

If we come to God humbly, we will be made perfect in him.

Phil 1:6 being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus.

Grace and Peace.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

Many of the pleasures God gave for us to enjoy have been twisted and distorted in this world. Example: Sex out of wedlock. Food is also something that gives us pleasure and when we thank God for it, it is good.

My Body, yes, I have an attachment to my body, and brushing is good to keep it clean.

1Co 6:19 Do you not know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit, who is in you, whom you have received from God? You are not your own;
1Co 6:20 you were bought at a price. Therefore honor God with your body.

My body is God's Temple. So I try to keep it healthy to Glorify him.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

You are seriously just jumping right into all the hoops.

Stress /Anxiety:
Lk 21:33 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away.
Lk 21:34 “Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with dissipation, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you unexpectedly like a trap.
Lk 21:35 For it will come upon all those who live on the face of the whole earth.
Lk 21:36 Be always on the watch, and pray that you may be able to escape all that is about to happen, and that you may be able to stand before the Son of Man.”

Phil 4:6 Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

1Pe 5:7 Cast all your anxiety on him because he cares for you.
1Pe 5:8 Be self-controlled and alert. Your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion looking for someone to devour.

The devil want you to say, Oh I am tired, I will drop my guard, I will play this game that has profanity, violence to relax.

To answer you, ALL TOO OFTEN do I fall and relax and that is an opening in my guard where the Devil can strike. As the verse says, your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion. You still live with yur parents? I know while I was living with my parents I was blind to it, my guard was never up. Please Please learn about and put on the armor of God.

Mt 6:27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life ?

Mt 6:31 So do not worry, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’
Mt 6:32 For the pagans run after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them.
Mt 6:33 But seek first his kingdom and his righteousness, and all these things will be given to you as well.

In all that you do, seek the Lord first. When you meet him on that day will he say, I am so proud you got to lvl 60, welcome to heaven. Or will he say Well done my good and faithful servant.

Children:
1Co 13:11 When I was a child, I talked like a child, I thought like a child, I reasoned like a child. When I became a man, I put childish ways behind me.

If youll remember, David and Sampson were very violent people. They got it from God though. I would like to be in the marines. Id like to get a sprint car too, so I can start racing. God gave me skills in racing I think... Racing... a competetive sport.. coming from God. Dont tell me you never race?

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

I did say I was a big gamer. I am not Judging you. I apologize if I have offended you.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

I didn't say games were evil, I said they are for the most part secular. Secular things are of this world and we are not to love things of this world.

Do you want to Prove that God is ok with killing?
Do you want to prove God is ok with racing games?
I am the wrong person to ask, I am the wrong person to prove a point against.
I apologize for make myself out to be some sort of authority on this matter. I am not, I seek God and the truth. I am not always right, I am not perfect. I ask God for wisdom every day and ask him to humble me, take away my pride and help me to grow to become more like Jesus. I am sorry.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

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In the stock market, you must buy high and sell low...Wait! That's not right!
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Yes, I can be intelligent at times!!

competition
com·pe·ti·tion [ kòmpə tísh'n ] (plural com·pe·ti·tions)
noun
Definition:
1. process of trying to beat others: the process of trying to win or do better than others
Several firms are in competition for the contract.
2. contest: an activity in which people try to win something or do better than others
3. opposition: the opposition in a competitive situation, or the level of opposition
keep one step ahead of the competition
fierce competition
4. ecology struggle for resources: the struggle between organisms of the same or different species for limited resources such as food or light


First definition of competition:
"process of trying to beat others"
Jesus is about loving, helping, caring.
Not about beating others. Not about winning or doing better than others.

Mt 19:30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.
Mk 9:35 Sitting down, Jesus called the Twelve and said, “If anyone wants to be first, he must be the very last, and the servant of all.”
1Jn 2:16 For everything in the world—the cravings of sinful man, the lust of his eyes and the boasting of what he has and does—comes not from the Father but from the world.

I believe what I said was "Competition is not of God."

I seriously believe that it is not God's will for us to compete with eachother but work together. Yes, playing games is fun. It is fun to do things with people we love. Does God speak against competing? Well if you consider the whole first are last and last are first then yes. But i am pretty sure he did not say "compete"! And that is why I said Competition is not of God. He wants us to Love everyone.

Mt 5:43 “You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’
Mt 5:44 But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you,
Mt 5:45 that you may be sons of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous.
Mt 5:46 If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that?
Mt 5:47 And if you greet only your brothers, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that?
Mt 5:48 Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.

Ro 13:9 The commandments, “Do not commit adultery,” “Do not murder,” “Do not steal,” “Do not covet,” and whatever other commandment there may be, are summed up in this one rule: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”

Gal 5:14 The entire law is summed up in a single command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:15 If you keep on biting and devouring each other, watch out or you will be destroyed by each other.

Love, not be better at. Love, not beat other. Love your enemy, not triumph over them.

I'm not saying it is bad, I am not judging it. But I don't think it is Gods will for us.

Does this help at all? Let me know!

[This message has been edited by pylon (edited May 27, 2006).]

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[This message has been edited by lava (edited May 27, 2006).]

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

The one thing I have realized is it is best not to trust people over God. Pray about it. If it is really something you need an answer about he will help you find it.

I could be completely wrong about everything I have said. It is foolish to trust men when God is a prayer away.

And about what I said earlier, my thinking is a certain way, I don't know what to call it, I guess solution-ative thinking, I have to think of a solution when presented with a problem. Otherwise it's useless arguing about whether there is a problem. People do more arguing about whether there is a problem than actually trying to solve it.

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[This message has been edited by lava (edited May 27, 2006).]

Solution: Finding out what God wants us to do, and do it.

To solve the Competition Problem: Stop Competing if it is a problem.

Is it a problem? Ask God, read the bible, find out what you are called to do.

This is they way I have started to Look at life. I am saved, When I was reborn in christ that was the start of my eternal life. My life was redemed by christ. My Body and Soul were paid for. Because I have eternal life, and because there is nothing more I can do to secure my place in heaven, the only reason I am not in heaven now is to try to help others know God so they too may come to have eternal life.

That being said, why would you want to play video games when there are so many out there that we Chistians are responsible for. Why would we hold so tightly to things of this world when the Creator of this existance is wanting something different? Who are we to put aside the true God, The Creator for a video game?

Hang on God, don't come down just yet, This is only the Second Lap!

Wrong to play games or not, I DON'T CARE. What I do Care about is what God wants.

We are so intune with the physical world, entertainment and things to pass the time. You're Missing out on Everlasting Joy if you don't Seek God. You Chistians know what I am talking about.

Nuff Said. Night All.

quote:

---

Originally posted by pylon:

The devil want you to say, Oh I am tired, I will drop my guard, I will play this game that has profanity, violence to relax.

To answer you, ALL TOO OFTEN do I fall and relax and that is an opening in my guard where the Devil can strike. As the verse says, your enemy the devil prowls around like a roaring lion. You still live with yur parents? I know while I was living with my parents I was blind to it, my guard was never up. Please Please learn about and put on the armor of God.

---

This is good point (and you provided right verse references) which I have too found to be true.
Not long time ago my interest (and the need) on playing games become started to vanish until it was gone. I used to have the desire to just relax by playing some game but I dont care about relaxation anymore, it's just so much more enjoyable to do something useful like serve the Lord instead of just killing time.
Even so I may be tempted from time to time to play some game I see others playing, but thank God through Jesus Christ who has given me the strength to resist that temptation because I strongly believe that violent games are something I shouldnt play, anymore.

Basically it goes like so that if we live constantly feeding our desires then it's all what we know about... But if you can get out of that loop (only Jesus can set you free) you will see the difference.

Look for those things that wont pass away my friends, taste that Lord is good and grow by His word. (1Pe 2:2-3)

May God bless you all in truth.

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2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by pylon:
Well it is easy to solve a problem of not doing Gods will.

Solution: Finding out what God wants us to do, and do it.

---

And finding that out can only happen if we search God from all our heart. So easily we can think we are looking for what is God's even we have already set our own goals.

- Pro 14:12 There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.

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2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

Galatians 5:13
You, my brothers, were called to be free. But do not use your freedom to indulge the sinful nature; rather, serve one another in love.

quote:

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Welp I guess thats the advantage of being a Catholic.

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no matter.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

not much difference, however. I'm not picturing old school midieval catholics, if that's what you want to know.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

I don't remember the verse, but I think I've read that some where.

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My real name is William, feel free to call me that.
I can't spell feel free to corret me.

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2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)