buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
I was wondering what everyone else thinks about what has been happening lately with the war in Iraq and them having the election, also what they think about the president saying that he thinks that going to war was the right decision, even though we did it for a different reason then. I love discussing things on here and this is a good topic, just want to see what everyone thinks. I'll say what I think later!! ------------------ |
Ereon Member Posts: 1018 From: Ohio, United States Registered: 04-12-2005 |
I think that President Bush mad a good descision. I'm not a pacifist, but I'm against war in general unless it has a legitimate reason that will assist the US or help another country. I'm a little leary about the war in Iraq (good hardly ever comes out meddling in the affairs of other nations), and I'm still a little worried about the US becoming the world's police force, armies should be used for defence of the home country, not for defending various other nations and factions. However, given the data that the US claims to have had, I think it was the best descision possible at the time. However governments have been known to fool their populace before, so I'm still leary. Government is responsible for some of the worst evil of mankind, so forgive me if I fail to trust any government completely, even the great democracy we have in the US. ------------------ |
D-SIPL Moderator Posts: 1345 From: Maesteg, Wales Registered: 07-21-2001 |
Something had to be done for certain but going it alone (well with England's support as well) was pretty dumb. If the U.N. had done what they were suppose to do then it would have been sorted by now. What we have now however is a great excuse for Muslims to kill more innocent people in terrorist attacks, which sucks. Meh i don't think there was any real way to sort the problem out. It's about damage limitation you can never actually sort the problem fully. I don't agree with the war really, i think the after effects are going to be a lot worse then what was going on in the first place, but then it's not my decision to call... thankfully. Lets pray for our governments, that God will give them wisdom regarding these matters. --D-SIPL ------------------ |
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buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
Look's like I'm the only one who truly supports it... I think that it was a worthy cause... I agree with what you said Ereon that governments have mislead their masses (look at the former U.S.S.R!) but I do think that the war will and has been worth it. Why? Well, we took out Saddam Hussein, for one. He may have not had WMD, but there is evidence that he was trying to buy uranium from Niger (the prime minister is quoted saying that) and they have confirmed links to Al-qaeda for at least the last 10 years.. Also, doesn't what happened with the election not long ago make it worth it? The Iraqis dancing and shouting in the streets because they can finally have a say and not be oppressed? What about the Iraqis tearing Saddam's statues down a while ago when it started? This all makes it worth it (I think)... Disagree with me if you want (warsong, this means you LOL kidding!!) but I truly support Bush in this. Check out this article for some myths about the war and what reality is. And about what you said, D-SIPL, about going it alone (along with England), read this quote about that very issue: “Some critics have said our duties in Iraq must be internationalized. This particular criticism is hard to explain to our partners in Britain, Australia, Japan, South Korea, the Philippines, Thailand, Italy, Spain, Poland, Denmark, Hungary, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Romania, the Netherlands, Norway, El Salvador, and the 17 other countries that have committed troops to Iraq…" Sorry to nit-pick, but there were a LOT of other countries helping, it's just that they aren't very publicized... [This message has been edited by buddboy (edited December 21, 2005).] |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
yes, and all of those wonderful allies sent their 3 troops. it was amazing how we all pulled together,  seriously tho, i'm not even sure what i think anymore. it's too late to pull out now, as warlords and individual "resistance groups" would all try to fill the power vacuum, as the existing iraqi gov. is weak. there would be too much infighting, and it would be our fault. Perhaps going in the first place wasnt the best idea, as it feeds the view that america intends to police the whole world. ------------------ |
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buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
Ok, you can cut the sarcasm. (Not being mean or upset here so you know) I agree with what you said about not pulling out now (what a waste!!)... But you know, the Sunni (pronounced Soo-NEE for you jokers!!) Muslims have decided to vote instead of resorting to violence, which they have been known to do. That's a pretty big change. I still think that good progress has been made and that this is what we should have done. I do think that we should have sent more troops over initially. Did you guys read that article? I'd love to hear any feedback.. ------------------ |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
ehh, sorry, didnt mean to offend u. ------------------ |
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buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
you didn't!! it's all good... i'm cool (lol!)... but i do disagree with you... i can disagree with you and still like you as a person... ------------------ |
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
I support the military and the country at war, but I do question the wisdom of our stated goals in Iraq. I think that creating a stable lasting democracy there is next to impossible. I don't think their society has the necessary belief structure, or commitment to freedom to maintain such a government. We may be able to put something in place for a short time, but as soon as we leave it will be torn apart both from within and without. ------------------ |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
Does it matter how much better place world will be when x number of terrorists are neutralized? I quess many would say yes of course it matters that world is better place and I would say so too. But is it right to make a world better place this way, by killing? I would say no because there is none one sinless to cast stones... And it's fighting evil with evil, not over coming evil with good like adviced in the Bible. And the world would be only better in our view point while many others would suffer even more than now, including terrorists and their supporters. Why do I care about the terrorists? Because God has forgiven me my sins but not them and He says that we must forgive so that we might be forgiven... ------------------ [VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3) |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
yes... but do we now let Iraq stand on its own? shoulden't we try to help then start a better government? ------------------ Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right. PM ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF ME! ILL PUT IT HERE! |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
I don't know Realm, doing things without God's blessing isn't... blessed. But I hope and pray that the people who make decisions find the right way in His eyes. ------------------ [VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3) |
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Ereon Member Posts: 1018 From: Ohio, United States Registered: 04-12-2005 |
If it was my call I'd much rather support underground Christians (they did exist in Iraq). That way, like jari said, we could fight evil with good, and hate with love. Support the "illegal" Christians in these nations with Bibles and resources to spread the word of God, and eventually you can change the country from the inside out. That would be the course of action I'd choose (and thus an extra piece of my income goes to Voice of the Martyrs which supports just that), unfortunately our government probably wouldn't look at it the same way.... ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ereon (edited December 28, 2005).] |
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Ereon Member Posts: 1018 From: Ohio, United States Registered: 04-12-2005 |
By the way, I DO support it, and I stand behind our President 100% because the choice he made was the best that could have been made with the data provided, I think he made a good descision, but only time will tell if it was the best descision. The other part of my top post was simply a little apprehension of government in general, not a lack of support, simply a little healthy caution. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Ereon (edited December 30, 2005).] |
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Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
Killing isn't evil. If killing is evil, then God is evil. God not only kills people, he has a history of telling people to kill people. What is evil, and what is prohibited by the bible is killing someone without the right to do so. All life comes from God, he has the right to give life and to take life. God has delegated that authority to mankind in a number of instances. If a man or a government is operating within one of the instances in which God has authorized man to take life, then it is not evil for them to do so. The necessity of doing it is always regrettable and to be avoided if possible. ------------------ |
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Ereon Member Posts: 1018 From: Ohio, United States Registered: 04-12-2005 |
Hmmm, yes, but how do you define WHEN God does that. It would be all to easy for any government to claim that right, and many have done it in the past. ------------------ |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
quote: how did my name get brought up in this thread...was it do to my ignorant anti-war posts from back in the day? i still believe that the idea of supporting the underground Christians would've been a better way. also sending evangelist instead of soldiers. but the governments are set up to do things like the war in iraq, and we are suppose to pray for them. i'm not going to say it was the right or wrong thing to do, but i will say that the bible does say the law if for the lawless and disobedient. the governments, police, etc. were all set up to take care of that sort of business. i believe it's our duty( Christians) to show the love of God in every situation, and do our best to spread the gospel in every situation. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
just looked at my signature and realized how my name got brought into this. unfortunately i don't have the money to do anything but tithe. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Ereon Member Posts: 1018 From: Ohio, United States Registered: 04-12-2005 |
Ahrm, my mistake, mistype. I apologize Benny. ------------------ |
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Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
quote: There are two sources from which we can gain knowledge about this. First is God's revealed law in the scriptrues. Second is the law of nature which is revealed in creation. A great deal of the legal and political theory upon which the united states was founded deals specificly with deducing principles of government from both the revealed law of God and the laws of nature. ------------------ |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
quote: I'm not sure what you mean by the "law of nature" for me there is only one source and that is the first one, God's word, in book or spoken by prophet or so. This is one important lesson by God. He showed how man was given the right to judge and be god but man could not judge right or keep the law. And whenever rightneus judgements we're made it was due to God's holy spririt. So God has shown to us in the Bible that man had change to be better than others and judge them but eventually man would become (he's sons) like the ones he fought against and defeated (thanks to God's hand, not he's own sword). We can think that we are better than terrorists and they are pagans who deserve to die which would be true because wages of sin is death. But do not forget that you are saved by grace, not because of your "goodness" but because of God's love and He's holyness we are made better. Sure we have the free will to reject God but my point is that if God would not have His law written to our hearts we would not be considering our self any better than others, like we are doing now. For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. - Mat 7:2 Forgive and you shall be forgiven. Don't worry about terrorists over coming the world if we don't take arms against them, there will always be plenty of pagans to fight their wars. And what does our Lord Jesus say about things to come? Wars will come but after that is peace.
------------------ [VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3) [This message has been edited by jari (edited December 31, 2005).] |
