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You guys gots lotsa problemz, want me to help you fiz dem?

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Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited July 05, 2004).]

I cant get my pik to show! please help me!

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You guys gots lotsa problemz, want me to help you fiz dem?

(when a person lies and misconstrues facts in order to push forth his misguided agenda.. yeah.. I'll call him a nut. lol)

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Soterion Studios

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AAARG! My pik wont show? Whats going on???

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Soterion Studios

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AAARG! My pik wont show? Whats going on???

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Soterion Studios

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

In England we have a Prime Minister who is a puppet to Europe. The EU say "jump" and our Prime Minister Tony Blair says "how high".

George Bush, now there is a man who doesn't take flack from no-one. If he loses the next election then send across the pond please!

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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Soterion Studios

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

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Soterion Studios

maybe if bible was written in modern times it might have left nor right added?

truely it bothers me how partisan christians can be.. lets not follow left nor right, nor even centre, but 100 Jesus, and judging everything (that which is left and right, which both have merits and problems) according to Jesus standard, and rather live ourselves striving not to the left nor the right, but straight on ahead to wards the goal, and our purpose in life and in Jesus.

in politics, i myself would tend towards the right more, as a believe truely on indenpedant choice (even of choosing God) and responsibility, but lets just take an example issue , of how the left and right treat it different.

the left wants to make and force an equal utopia, and look after the needy at a government level. they thus will force (through taxes) the rich to take care of the poor. though alot of their motives are right, i do disagree with the whole welfare thing alot, as the givers don't have the choice to give, and thus are reluctant and bitter to do so, thus there is no blessing in the giving, and the recievers often reciever through a heartless and faceless system, and take it rather than as a gift, but as a right, so their is no true blessing in recieving.

However the attitude of alot of christians on the right bothers me, they talk of independant responsibility, and that basically if someboody is poor it is either because they are lazy or not a hard enough worker. they also use certian truths to justify their own hard and judgemental hearts and attitudes. They won't acknowledge that their are alot of people out there struggling not because they don't work hard enough, but because we live in a sinful society where certian economic structures are set up to benefit some at the cost of others , for example a billionarre is never self made (not matter how proud he is) because though he might have orchestrated and schemed his wealth, it would have come through a wide base of society and many people working to make him rich, i like bill gates father for instance, being in a organisation for 'responsible use of wealth' understand that point i said above, and CHOOSING (which is the prob i have with the lefts attitude) to be a good steward of the resources God has given us. Also so many of us 'rightwing' christians do not give ourselves to give to the poor. i see government based welfare as mostly the abdication of responsibility of the church. one of the biggest themes of the bible, is the giving, caring of the poor, widowed, foreigners in our midst etc, but we often use our right wing propaganda (Yep us on the right have it also) to get out of our responsibilities before Christ to feed the poor etc, to be jesus through our actions, adbicating our responsibilities to the state, (or not at all), and not entering into that cycle of sowing/reaping/ giving/recieving and being blessed by blessing.

remember the words of jesus

For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

so lets not draw from the left or from the right, but draw our inspiration ,and direction and purpose of life from the lifeblood of the word of our Lord Jesus Christ.

as Christian we have to constantly humble ourselves before the lordship of Christ, realising that our cultures (and political cultures) have things in them that are far below that of the way of our Lord, and we shouldn't pridefully defend our cultures, but humble ourselves before the Lord, taking correction from him, letting him deal with the logs in our own eyes, rather than trashing those with different logs than ours (and we trash, its not even decorated in trying to help them, there is not even a loving concern most of the time sadly).. Remember the heart of man is deceitfully evil according to the bible, and thats a republican heart as well as a democratic heart.

in Christ,

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left--Eccleiastes 10:2
okay, just joking. that verse wasn't meant to be used like that.
it's still kinda funny.

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Soterion Studios

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Society without morality is doomed. It is morality that provides for children... not through a faceless dole but through a caring family and on a larger scale a caring community, who truly know the need... and know who is just trying to get a free ride. It is morality that reduces the number of children born into poverty due to poor choices by young girls who've watched way too much MTV for their own good. It is morality that gives a person a sense of responsibility, that they would much prefer to work for their own living over taking money from others despite not having a lack of ability. But, true morality must come from God, and being one nation under him no longer seems the case.

In a society where sexual immorality is paraded and glorified, where millions of unborn children have been murdered, where the idea of a family unit is scoffed each night on television and divorce is more likely than carrying out the "so long as we both shall live" part of the vows (if the couple in question even bothered saying that, which is getting rarer these days), where those who choose to live a moral and godly life are mocked, where history is being re-written to remove God, is it really all that surprising that everything is such a mess? Somehow I don't think so.

I suppose the best we can do is choose that which we think God would support, and somehow I doubt God cares about our taxes and national deficit in light of some of the other questions involved, and pray the tide turns.

-fel

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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Brian

Well, i see the merrit in being politically uncommitted (i think that's what i got from you guys...) and following God's leading all the way. So great to find a group of like-minded good folk!

Anyway, must say I'm surprised to hear Christians backing Bush. No reason, I just thought everyone hated him for the whole Iraq thing?

And Blair's not too bad I don't think. In favour of unified Europe but in theory how is unity wrong? Though I'm not in favour of it in real life it's a nice dream!

The problem with Unity is centralized power. This leads to a tyranny.

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Soterion Studios

They actually tried comparing it to other wars? Take any major conflict, and I can assure you, Iraq pales compared to the bloodiness of the other conflict.

Estimated wounded in iraq (from some anti-war site, probably exagerated): 5362
Total deaths, I believe, are around 700-800.

Other wars:
http://www.cwc.lsu.edu/cwc/other/stats/warcost.htm

I don't want to minimalize the impact - anyime anybody dies, it hurts a lot of people - but we've seen a lot worse. Most of the deaths are from terrorists wanting us to leave. Unfortunately, I really don't think it would be a good idea to leave without first setting up adequate government and law enforcement.

I, for one, am glad that Saddam is no longer in charge.

Or maybe we should compare it to something a bit closer to politics:
In 2003, an estimated 1,312,990 babies were killed by abortion.

And you thought war was bloody.

I tend to be conservative/republican because of the moral issues - morally, I tend to be very conservative. I'm pro-life all the way. What's the most common excuse for an abortion? "It's my body." Unfortunately, that's far from the truth:

1. The DNA of the baby, from the time of conception has its own DNA, derived from both the mother and the father. It is always an individual.

2. The baby's bloodstream has to be seperated from the mother's, and if given a chance, the mother's immune system would reject the baby (fortunately, the placenta prevents that) - her own body doesn't think it's hers!

3. Christians believe that ultimately, everything is God's. God should decide, not the mother.

So, I have one religious and two scientific arguments against abortion. That pretty much settles it for me.

http://www.godandscience.org/abortion/

Dr. Micheline Matthews-Roth (Harvard University Medical School):
"It is scientifically correct to say that an individual human life begins at conception"

Kerry's voting record scares me. He voted against letting parents know about their teenagers' abortions (the kids could bleed to death), he voted against the Lacy Peterson law which is supposed to help protect pregnant women who WANT their babies, he voted for letting schools pass out the morning after pill when they still can't pass out aspirin. He claims to be personally Pro-Life but he sure doesn't act like it, and considering his voting record it doesn't look like it's just because he thinks the government should stay out of it, because if that were the case he wouldn't find it necessary to keep parents in the dark and not protect women who want their child.

I guess you could say it's like this. If you showed me a candidate who gave tax cuts like candy, knew how to balance the budget, had a cure for cancer and could prevent global warming, but thought killing babies should be up to the parents, I still couldn't vote for that person.

-fel

I Love You!!!

(Don't take that wrong.) I'd never consider voting for Kerry, and the Democrats as a whole just tik me off. Corruption in politics is't just a StarWars thing...
But, this site and all you good ppl is very refreshing. What else can i say? Well, do you have any oppinions on other Rep's and Senetors comming up for vote soon?

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"Democrats stink"

hey goop2, you could host your picture on http://imageshack.us/index2.php. It is free and will stay around for a year unless it is looked at and then it resets to a year again. So as long as Christian coders stays around(hopefully a looooong time) your picture will be there.

[This message has been edited by HeardTheWord (edited September 04, 2004).]

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

First off, I believe that Christianity is a total life experience, if you think that you can be a christian privately and not let it influence your politics, your views on basicly any area of life even intellectual endevour, I think you need to seriously question wether you understand what it means to have faith. Gladly I havn't seen anyone in here that i really think that applies to very much.. a welcome change from the norm.

On right vs. left I think this is very much a christian issue. If you have two opposing views they can both be wrong, but they can't both be right. I think its obvious in the US that neither the right nor the left is perfectly correct but I think the right is vastly more aligned with scriptural truth than the left is. This is even more true when you examine the underlying principles behind the respective philosophies. It is an interesting side note that the terms "right wing" and "left wing" are actually derived from scripture. They come originaly from the era just before and during the French revolution. In that situation the church was part of the aristocratic establishment and thus the revolutionaries were violently anti church and anti christian. So when they organized themselves they deliberately all took seats to the left side of the speaker because in scripture when God judges he has the condemned (the goats) go to the left hand. After the revolution these same people did everything possible to expunge christianity from their culture, right down to abolishing the seven day week.

Leftism is an evil philosophy for a number of reasons. First off its very core is humanism which is inherintly anti-God. Although leftism always uses language of liberty it is actually very much against human freedom.
It should also be noted that on almost EVERY issue, leftism comes down hard against christian teaching. Leftist groups in the USA almost universaly oppose individual freedom when it comes to doing good things, and support the freedom to do evil. I think you would be hard pressed to come up with a single leftist candidate in this entire country who does not support abortion, promotion of the homosexual lifestyle, removal of freedoms of religious expression.

If you want to reduce left vs. right to money and fiscal policy, I think leftism is still enomrously dangerous to a christian people. First off, if the government is taking your money and giving it out in welfare, it removes all discretion about how the money is used and what is supported with it. In our current system for example, welfare systems are practicaly designed to promote broken families and children being born out of marriage, because you get more money and benefits that way.
Secondly government welfare is extremely dangerous to a free society and most dangerous to a democratic society. Some left leaning christians point to the example of Joseph in egypt to support government welfare. when he gathered up the grain and such for the seven year famine. What they don't point out is that through that process (as is stated in scripture) Joseph turned every person in egypt into a slave belonging, even their very lives, to pharoh. This principle is demonstrated time and again in history, when a people are dependant on government welfare, they become slaves of the government. In a democracy this is particularly dangerous and easy because all someone has to do is get the majority of people on welfare and they will eventualy control the entire government because they control the votes of those who depend on government welfare.

this was very clearly demonstrated in the ancient democracies of Greece and in the republic of Rome. Buying votes with government money is death to a democratic society. This is one of the reasons that the US was never intended to be a straight up democracy. It was intended to be a representative republic, and its guiding principle was not one man one vote, it was individual rights and liberty.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

quote:

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Originally posted by D-SIPL:
So how likely is it, that George Bush will serve another term?

--D-SIPL

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I think its prety likely.

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This is the stupid useless thingy that is underneath my post... It is also NOT my name...

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Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Sebastian: True, save means to live!
Antonio: of that, there's none or little.

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In the stock market, you must buy high and sell low...Wait! That's not right!
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Yes, I can be intelligent at times!!

quote:

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Originally posted by buddboy:
hey, this is funny (sort of) to read so long after all this was current... D-SIPL, Blair's a puppet? lol... he is better than Charic... lol.. totally support Bush... i don't care that there were no WMDs, Saddam still needed to be taken out of power... heard on the news this morning Bush says that we plan to turn it over to the Iraqi forces by the end of the year and bring troops home... lol... w00t!

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Hey this is funny too(in a sad kind of way) that you guys seem to not know what really went on here. My view of the whole thing:

President Bush was elected on the strength of his supposed "conservative" views.
September 11, 2001, Islamic terrorists attack the U.S and kill many citizens. The government failed to protect us.
President Bush comes up with a story about Saddam supporting the terrorists.
Next, he comes up with another story about how Saddam has WMD's and will kill us all in a week unless we do something.
Congress acts like a bunch of cowards and says that it is the President's prerogative to declare war, relinquishing their constitutional duty to him.
President Bush starts an unconstitutional, undeclared war with Iraq.
Note, Saddam WANTED to remain at peace with the U.S. As early as 2002, he told his government to let the U.N inspectors search wherever they wanted and cooperate with them as well.
The media has first saturated the airwaves with dozens of news stories and programs about the WMD threat, scaring millions of Americans very much.
President Bush wins the 2004 election on the strength of his conservative power base AGAIN because of his supposed "strong stance" toward Iraq.
WMD's are not found in Iraq.
The President and his staff sneakily switch the whole point of the war over to something else.
"Saddam was a cruel dictator." they say. "It was our duty to topple him from power and give the Iraqis the democracy they so wanted and deserved."
What a load of BS.
By now many people have realized this and that is why his approval rating is at 29% and dropping even more.
He lied, he deceived us, he allowed terrorists to attack this country, and even now he plays political games while our borders are overrun with thousands of:
1. Drug smugglers
2. Human smugglers
3. Terrorists
4. Mexican Military(Who have fired on Border Patrol people many times)
5. Illegal aliens.
6. next to a paltry few Border agents, Minutemen, and now a few thou- guardsmen.

So, President Bush is a treasonous liar on many counts. A year or so ago he actually signed a bill to add thousands more Border Patrol agents to the force, and then he reneged.
He lied to get us into Iraq, so yes "Bush lied, people died" is a very true slogan, although using the deaths of human beings to help your politics is wrong.
I am neither conservative nor liberal, IMHO neither group follows God or does the right thing for our country, all they do is divide it and destroy it; piece by piece by piece.

If we didn't know God was in control of the whole thing, I'd start the revolution right now!

p.s Does the CIA monitor this site?

Besides, South Africa, Rwanda, Uganda, Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Islamic countries, and Afghanistan are all places which have had very very bad leaders, tortured and killed many of their own citizens including Christians, and the U.S hasn't done anything!

All that seems to prove to me is that Bush did not go into Iraq because Saddam was bad, he did it for other nefarious reasons yet to be explained.

CheeseStorm(Btw, where'd all this Cheddar come from?), can you find anywhere in the U.S Constitution it says that the U.S has the responsibility to topple bad governments, in any way, shape or form?

President Clinton, Madeline Albright, Sandy Berger, Clinton’s National Security Adviser, the intelligence agencies of Britain, Germany, Russia, China, Israel, and France, our own CIA, twenty former inspectors from the United Nations Special Commission, and a majority of our own congress including Nancy Pelosi, John Kerry, Hillary Clinton, Al Gore, and *gasp* Ted Kennedy believed Suddam had weapons of mass destructions and was willing to use them.

This was Saddam's foolhearted bluff. Easy to believe because of his prior use of WMDs on his own people to the tune of 300,000 people and his dangerous games he was playing with the UN weapons inspectors.

btw, it was Congress -Democrats and Republicans, based on the same reports the president had - that declared war. Surprised yet?

Sadly you will not hear this from your favorite teacher at school or the evening news. What you will hear is the same tiresome mantra 'BushLied'

I'm just curious, where did you hear it was Bush's unconstitutional war?

Here's an link that you might find very informative, the information in the article is public information, you just want find the 'hate bush' crowd repeating it:

http://www.commentarymagazine.com/Production/files/podhoretz1205advance.html

Let me know at what point your jaw drops!

[This message has been edited by coolj (edited June 07, 2006).]

I strongly disagree with Bush for just about everything else he has (or hasn't) done. Such as his handling of: illegal immigration, the budget, and well, I'll remember soon.

I voted for Bush in 2004, but if I had that same chance; I would only vote for him over Kerry because... its him or Kerry how simple can it be?

I sure wish Bush lived up to the idea of 'Conservative'

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"Do not condemn others for their ignorance, use it against them."
Scott E. Roeben

From http://www.padfield.com/1997/goodmen.html :

quote:

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Jesus told of a traveler who was robbed, beaten and left him half dead. The men who did this were wicked and did a very wicked thing. But the Levite and priest allowed this evil to continue unanswered by doing nothing as they each "passed by on the other side" (Luke 10:31-32). Fortunately for the traveler there was one man, a Samaritan, who was willing to stand up for what was right (Luke 10:33-36).

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quote:

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When good men do nothing, they are no longer good.

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And finally one of my favorite quotes:
"All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing." - Edmund Burke (whoever that was lol)

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"The only people on Earth who do not see Christ and His teachings as nonviolent are Christians". - Mahatma Gandhi

If you say yes, then it doesn't matter if Saddam nuked Saudi Arabia, we cannot attack him without Congress declaring war.

Lazarus

It has cost the U.S. $250 billion so far, so I dunno about profit. And if they take control of the oil, so what? Look what Saddam spent his oil money on.

Unfortunately, the different Islamic sects (mostly Sunnis vs. Shiites) are still at each other's throats. How I love religion. The only peaceful end is to turn them all into fat wealthy Westerners like us. French fries take the fight right outta ya.

[edit] $250 billion is the amount Congress has allocated (includes the mission in Afghanistan); the total cost is unknown. Some estimates put it at $2 trillion. WIKIPEDIA FTW [/edit]

[This message has been edited by CheeseStorm (edited June 09, 2006).]