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Doesn't have everything but has a good chunk.

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quote:

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Originally posted by HanClinto:
Speaking of which, I don't think I've seen a screenshot of the month lately. Are you guys still doing that, Mack?

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We haven't done much overall artwork work with Nightmares since August due to the costs involved. We're progressively working on the engine; having to replace some core parts to get it to our expectations (networking, animation and general performance needs work). We're doing this collectively with a few other developers to accomplish the same goals more effectively. So nothing really interesting to show. I really want Nightmares to be an excellent game so we're taking all the time we need, not rushing it out, not cutting a lot of corners. The industry is in bad enough shape, it doesn't need a bomb to make it worse.

The costs involved with next gen. art is crazy, as I previously mentioned in my interview thread we were starting to work on some episodic casual titles. While a Nightmares model will cost me around $1000 (USD) (for mesh, uv, skin) a model for one of these other titles is around $100 (USD) (for mesh, uv, skin) and animation comparisons are huge (half to quarter of the price). It comes down to the aspect where I just can't afford Nightmares artwork for the time being. I am paying for all the art out of pocket. :P

So with these episodic titles I'm hoping to do a crazy mass release of one episode per month for an extended period of time (6 months). Boost awareness of Christian games, do some boxed bundles with other Christian games, online advertising and basically drive all over pimpin' games at every large event that I can (here in Edmonton we have YC where around 144,000+ teens from across Canada come to worship and also have one of the largest malls in the world). Also be sending out hundreds of FREE games to people so they can hand them out at events, malls, etc. to people.

I'm also planning on taking these boxed bundles (free XX games and demos of other Christian games) to retails stores and give the stores the games, for free, to resell. If the players want more then they go to the developer directly and purchase the game. ID Software did this strategy with DOOM back in the mid-90s and that's how they made a profit killing.

I'm going to be pretty blunt in saying that more Christian developers like David Lancaster and Randall need money; insane, retarded amounts of money. To help bring this industry from it's face to it's knees. These guys are some of the REAL developers in the industry, not money grubbing suits wanting to take advantage of a 'time and place' strategy. So it's become sorta a hobby to check out how to 'repeat the past' so to say from previously successful marketing and business methods while trying to figure out some new stuff as well.

My hope is that (as documented in the excellent book 'How to Win Customers and Keep Them for Life, Revised Edition' by Michael LeBoeuf) we'll start a chain reaction. If a person has a positive reaction with your product or business they will tell at least 20 other people, during the course of their lifetimes, about the product/business (if they have a bad experience they'll tell more). If those 20 people have good experiences then they tell 20 people and so on. The process of 'word of mouth' and trying to generate a 'buzz' has been my interest for sometime.

The biggest thing with these multiple releases is of course the fun factor and quality of the titles. That's been my largest focus on them is making them fun; they are games after all, not semi-interactive theological studies within a poorly constructive entertainment wrapping. If the game sucks it doesn't matter how much marketing or free give away I do, the game is going to stink like Lazarus. So whenever I'm comfortable I'll be doing some small, limited public beta releases to sites like CCN to test the game out, get feedback and make modifications before making the plunge.

No, I don't have a public release date setup. It'll come when it comes. I posted a small picture on the 'Talk is cheap' thread which I'll mirror here. These are some of the models for one of the titles, they're being animated right now:

In the mean time, for those reading this thread, buy the following games:

Randalls ZOO RACE:
www.zoorace.com

Davids AXYS ADVENTURES:
www.rebelplanetcreations.com

Scotts LIGHT RANGERS:
www.brethren-et.com/LRWebsite

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Most of my focus has been on overseeing the development of the core of the game engine. Unfortunately, part of this effort is overhauling the gameplay scripting system. Once this is done I have to port the existing Nightmares codebase over to it.

I've also been overseeing some other unannounced projects and working on developing the business. I think I mentioned years ago that I had carpal tunnel. While I'm definitely recovering, all day programming sessions are still very painful and thus I've tried to spend more time on business than coding. Which is annoying since by this time I could have finished all the weapons, vehicles, powers, AI, etc. We'd still be stuck with the lack of level assets but at least we could be prototyping the core gameplay functionality more than we are currently capable of.

From a business perspective the entire Christian game industry is in a quagmire and will likely be stuck there for years. All of the mainstream publishers were monitoring Left Behind Games as a test case. To them, the failure of LBG indicates a failure of all Christian games. Investor interest has dried up mostly. The worst part is that the Christian game industry has only been capable of releasing direct revenue PC retail, which is a shrinking market. Forget releasing a console game...the gates have been sealed shut by the publishers. Fortunately, casual games and portable games are on the rise. We predicted this over a year ago so we've been quietly working on a service for this...but we have had so many delays that by time we release our concepts may not be "new" anymore.

I've heard the press did not have much of a presence at CGDC. Christian games are "old news", which is very bad for companies like us, since most our sales were generated by exploiting this free source of publicity. It was free marketing when we could not afford a marketing budget at all. There are other methods of marketing like Mack mentioned but it hurts us a lot that we cannot simply do a press release and get mentioned in MSNBC, Fortune, Forbes, etc. just because we're doing a Christian game.

I can't name names, but to give you guys an idea of how bad things are, one of the original co-founders of a well known industry publisher attempted to raise funding with us. Even with his prior record of launching successful multi-billion dollar companies investors shot him down left and right. The only bright spot is Digital Praise, and that's only because they struck gold with Dance Praise.

So, yes, tell all your friends. Recruit your friends to help us. And when I say "us" I don't mean XrucifiX but every Christian game developer.

[This message has been edited by gump (edited October 25, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by mastallama (edited October 25, 2007).]

Also, anyone who offers to work with us has to be aware upfront that there is unlikely to be any pay involved for quite a while. The reason we don't have level designers is because we cannot afford them. This might change in the future but there are no guarantees.

[This message has been edited by gump (edited October 25, 2007).]

Just general curious questions Sounds interesting and I may be able to contribute a bit when I finish up a few things I have going on.

quote:

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Originally posted by mastallama:
So if someone were to take a stab at a futuristic design of doorways, arches, walls, etc... would they need to make the textures and everything or just the meshes? What format would you want the meshes in?

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Thanks for offering to help. We'd need the models in *.X or *.OBJ format, it'd be nice if the meshes were UVed and skinned but it's not nessasary.

I hope and pray for the best for this game. I can't say how much I'm looking forward to it.

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Q.E.D.

http://www.gameace.org/wforum/viewtopic.php?t=383

When it comes to Level Design there will be four types of workers:

(1) Gameplay Programmer (GP) - This person will be responsible for writing gameplay scripts and then placing these triggers and waypoints that were created as well as specially created scripts for certain scenarios. All cutscenes will be scripted by this person.

(2) Functionality Level Designer (FLD) - This person will be responsible for creating maps that are functional from a gameplay mechanics point of view. They will create the action paths and the basic geometry framework necessary for gameplay. They will place all enemy spawn points as well as all weapons, items, vehicles, id people, dynamic physics objects, stationary weapons, and environmental objects necessary for gameplay (like Essence Vials or trees or boulders that the player can hide behind). That means that the map created will very simple from an artistic point of view; the level geometry will be gameplay functional only. All surfaces will have placeholder/single hued textures and will likely be fairly boxy. The only exception is when prefabs are used that already look "good" and architectural pieces from our Construction Sets. This person will also set all dynamic lights (since that sets the "mood" for gameplay and thus is functional), create occluders, set up shadow maps, and will optimize the performance of the map using Reality Builder (using lists and geometry instancing). Sound actors and music change triggers will also be set as well as the timing of the day cycles and when it's rainy, foggy, etc. The LOD bias will need to be tweaked (how far before prefabs are not rendered).

ANY major game concepts not already inside the Design Documentation will need to be discussed before being implemented. This does not mean you must wait on a Game Lead decision before shifting object placement around a bit. But any major new areas or ideas must be submitted through the normal design process before any work is undertaken. We do not want people to waste their time if those ideas are rejected.

Once the levels created are up to par, exceed a first-pass implementation state, and are authorized by Game Lead(Mack) they will be passed onto...

(3) Visual Level Designer (VLD) - This person is responsible for creating the customized level geometry that will overlay the functional geometry and for texturing everything. The VLD will set all environmental factors that weren't necessary for gameplay and add in additional details. This will include pixel/vertex shaders and shadow maps and particle effects. For example, the Functionality Level Designer might have created what is supposed to be an apartment building on the side of a road. But all the FLD did was create a grey-colored rectangle. The VLD will then add a doorway, windows, cracks in the walls, and if it's a ramshackle building have big holes in it with rubble strewn about inside. Another example: FLD creates a simple boxy hallway. The VLD will add cobbled stones with pieces missing, an arch way overhead, use a parallax mapping shader so the stones appear to stick out, and create cracks in the walls where corpselike hands are reaching in and grasping for you. Specific example: the entrance to the Stronghold of Lust will probably be grand looking with intricate fountains and greek-style statues and all sorts of decoration on the external surface. The FLD will create the basic shape for the temple and the statues will just be simple grey blocks that can be used for cover from gunfire. The VLD will fill in all the details I mentioned.

(4) Internal Testing (IT) - As the size of the project increases it will become unreasonable for the core team to play through the entire game to test each code change prior to check-in. This position is created as to shift the burden of stabilization away from the development team.

Why the demarcation?
(1) Some people might be under the impression that scripting the maps will simply be a matter of placing some triggers and waypoints. Unfortunately, unique cinematic experiences requires much more scripting. It's fully possible for a normal level designer to become bogged down in writing scripts (in this case, Python or C#) and end up generating code that is complex, buggy, and ultimately unusable. Quite frankly, while many level designers are tech-savvy they are quite simply not programmers. Now this does not stop a Functionality Level Designer from making MINOR tweaks. For example, if there is a script that generates boulder actors in a landslide he could change the number of and the position of the generated boulders.

(2 and 3)

For CGDC 2004 Mack spent a lot of time on the map called Ruins. It had varying styles of graffiti on the walls, a building on fire, a giant crane, a canal system, a network of stairs up to the rooftops, rubble strewn throughout the streets, and a bunch of visual details. Mack spent a lot of time on these details. Unfortunately, while it "looked" good visually it was in Mack's own words "crap" from a gameplay perspective and basically the map would have to be overhauled and many details redone in order for it to be usable. So in order to prevent this from occurring over and over again that is the reason why the FLD will first create a map that is good from a gameplay perspective and then the VLD will make it good visually.

Now this does not mean that the VLDs can only be artists. In fact, the FLD and the VLD for a certain map can be the exact same person (and will likely be that way until we grow large enough). They key is that everyone must follow the process of submission before working on any major visual details. We also don't want to turn this into an issue of "ownership" over a particular map. If only "artists" can create visual geometry this can generate resentment between the different groups. If such tension is allowed to fester it could cause a blowup between all the "artistes" who are mad at each for messing with "their artistic vision".

(4) Due to the highly dynamic codebase and possibly a limited reuse of many scripted elements, continual regression will likely be necessary to ensure that new features do not break existing code. We will eventually require ongoing testing with up-to-the-minute assets. As such, we'll likely have to rely on friends and fans. A system for reporting any issues will eventually need to be created; perhaps a section of our site that will make a text post via a script into an area where all the core team members can see them. A process for taking these reports and fixing the conflicts will need to be created.

I also recommend creating a "Construction Kit". When you design your level geometry look at your concept art and divide up your geometry into functional units that can be reused and fit together like legos. Use these "prefabs" over and over by changing size, orientation, and texture. This can allow you to quickly bring a level from concept to demo. And if you use object instancing within your game engine you'll save on memory usage and performance. Slap something together and find out whether it's fun THEN make it pretty!

I could also say much more on LBG but that would not be appropriate at this time.

[This message has been edited by gump (edited October 25, 2007).]

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quote:

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Originally posted by gump:
Since we are talking about the state of the Christian game industry in general, I thought I would mention that I keep noticing people say how they are looking forward to Armageddon. I think they have allowed this to be public knowledge now (it's on ACE) but the project got canned well over a year ago and Boanerges merged with Brethren. Most of the employees either quit Boanerges or they are currently located in India.

I could also say much more on LBG but that would not be appropriate at this time.

[This message has been edited by gump (edited October 25, 2007).]

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Q.E.D.

Mack, Gump, I sent you guys a PM

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Heart of a Warrior

Mack/Gump -- what do you think about contacting youth groups. Not you guys doing another job, but just the idea of harvesting email addresses and writing to them to raise awareness and start a mailing list.

Edit: and at CGDC 06 John DeMagheriti was talking about an art studio that would do art for Christian games for a fraction of the cost or even free. Is that up and running yet?

[This message has been edited by JeTSpice (edited October 26, 2007).]

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by gump:
[b]Since we are talking about the state of the Christian game industry in general, I thought I would mention that I keep noticing people say how they are looking forward to Armageddon. I think they have allowed this to be public knowledge now (it's on ACE) but the project got canned well over a year ago and Boanerges merged with Brethren. Most of the employees either quit Boanerges or they are currently located in India.

I could also say much more on LBG but that would not be appropriate at this time.

[This message has been edited by gump (edited October 25, 2007).]

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[/B][/QUOTE]

Man that is sad, I thought Boanerges had 30 mil in funding tho? That sucks---is Armageddon still in development or has it been canned?

EDIT: Duh, just read it was canned---crappy--another good one bites the dust.

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited October 26, 2007).]

In summary, and attempting to not disclose more than I should, yes, Armegeddon was put on permanent hold. It did have substantial backing at one point, from a substantial source, but the source fell on hard times, and Armegeddon was one of the projects that suffered. So, that is to say that neither Boanerges nor Bretheren have officially "canned" the project - they are just focusing now on projects that do have funding. I think all of us that worked on that project still hold some hope in our hearts that it will one day be picked up again. That game had some really inovative stuff going on in both it's core mechanics and story by the time we called it quits.

Likewise, the attempt by John to get an art development house in China going is also on permament hold. A lot of us really had high hopes of seeing that come to fruition, so it's sad to see that one disappear as well.

Add to that the disapointing preformance of LB, as well as the fact that these issues (as well as others) led to this last CGDC being one of the smallest, and having almost none of the usual high-profile atendees, and it almost could feel like the industry is coming to an end.

Almost.

But it doesn't. And the reason is by and large because of people like you guys. Last year at CGDC I had one of the best times I've ever had at the conference, and it was because I get to talk with a lot of the people who are workingon their own little projects. Or just interested in helping out, or being a light where they are. People like Clint, Steve Goss, Mack and David L. are where a lot of the hope is at. It's going to take people with drive, and a willingness to challenge what a "Christian" game really is, and needs to be, to succeed with it. And by success, I don't mean financial, I mean to accomplish something worthwhile. I think the recent struggles go to prove that it's really, really hard to succeed at the big, multi-million dollar level. But the innovative "little" titles are still very encouraging to me.

That's all to say, yeah - things may be a little bumpy now - but don't let it slow down what you guys are doing here.

Oh, and maybe think about coming to CGDC next year! (Sorry, shameless plug. (And yes, Mack, I was talking to you.))

quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
Oh, and maybe think about coming to CGDC next year! (Sorry, shameless plug. (And yes, Mack, I was talking to you.))

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When isn't this applied to me? I'm actually going to have a car pretty quick here so I might just take you up on that. We'll see how it goes.

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quote:

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Originally posted by charlie:
Yeah, the last few years have been really tough times for the Christian Games industry. Well, technically, there really haven't been any years that weren't tough, but recently there seems to have been several potentially really good things that have gone south.

In summary, and attempting to not disclose more than I should, yes, Armegeddon was put on permanent hold. It did have substantial backing at one point, from a substantial source, but the source fell on hard times, and Armegeddon was one of the projects that suffered. So, that is to say that neither Boanerges nor Bretheren have officially "canned" the project - they are just focusing now on projects that do have funding. I think all of us that worked on that project still hold some hope in our hearts that it will one day be picked up again. That game had some really inovative stuff going on in both it's core mechanics and story by the time we called it quits.

Likewise, the attempt by John to get an art development house in China going is also on permament hold. A lot of us really had high hopes of seeing that come to fruition, so it's sad to see that one disappear as well.

Add to that the disapointing preformance of LB, as well as the fact that these issues (as well as others) led to this last CGDC being one of the smallest, and having almost none of the usual high-profile atendees, and it almost could feel like the industry is coming to an end.

Almost.

But it doesn't. And the reason is by and large because of people like you guys. Last year at CGDC I had one of the best times I've ever had at the conference, and it was because I get to talk with a lot of the people who are workingon their own little projects. Or just interested in helping out, or being a light where they are. People like Clint, Steve Goss, Mack and David L. are where a lot of the hope is at. It's going to take people with drive, and a willingness to challenge what a "Christian" game really is, and needs to be, to succeed with it. And by success, I don't mean financial, I mean to accomplish something worthwhile. I think the recent struggles go to prove that it's really, really hard to succeed at the big, multi-million dollar level. But the innovative "little" titles are still very encouraging to me.

That's all to say, yeah - things may be a little bumpy now - but don't let it slow down what you guys are doing here.

Oh, and maybe think about coming to CGDC next year! (Sorry, shameless plug. (And yes, Mack, I was talking to you.))

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Hope it picks up again dude :-) Who owns the rights now? Do you still work for Boanerges/Brethren? Nice to meet ya dude hehe!!!!!

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