Help Wanted

Seeking advice.. – Bowen

Bowen
Junior Member

Posts: 3
From: Poulsbo, Wa.
Registered: 09-21-2007
So I've got a few game ideas in mind but before I go running around begging for volunteers, I want to make sure I'm ready to give people work when they ask for it. The last thing I want to do is say "I need help with this project" and have someone say "what can I do?" and not have an answer right away.

So, the question I have for you guys is basically how do I break down the work in such a way that I know what I'm doing?

Basically I want to start small. Rather than having large project, I'm thinking it'd be better to prototype systems that would go into the games I'm thinking of. Possibly take those prototypes and turning them into mini-games and then later working them into a larger project after those systems are working the way I want.

So let's say the first title I want to do is basically an RTS and I want to prototype some AI, a random events generator, and a passive resource collection system.

I have a pretty good idea what kinda of art assets I need, but I'm not sure how programers like break down their tasks. I don't want to be too descriptive and bore them to death. I don't want to be too vague either.

Do I just write up a 1-10 page design doc for the entire system I want to prototype and say this is what I want, knock yourself out? Which would probably be fine for something simple I suppose but I guess I'm just not sure how far I should break it down.

So any insight you guys could give me would be very much appreciated. I've learned enough to know what I don't want to do, but not enough to really paint a clear picture how best to organize things to proceed.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
so, alright, let's walk through your post.

Starting small. That's good. Always go smaller than you think you want, you'll expand the project over time.

I apologize for being blunt, but if you don't know enough to paint a clear picture how best to organize things to proceed, you aren't read to lead a project. I say this out of my own experience with past games.
It's no walk in the park leading development.

But, not to jump to conclusions, I would like to ask how many games you have made before?
And what kind of games were they?

Well, on the uphand, you want to have defined jobs before asking for volunteers. Nothing's worse than a person begging for work who hasn't even begun to do their own share.

However, this site (and any other) aren't full of hungry programmers just waiting to jump at any possible job. There will always be more jobs than programmers (until we start getting robots that program), and you'll need to prove to any of us why we should take time out of our busy lives and our potential projects to work on yours.
Not saying we're unwilling to help, but ideas are a dime a dozen, and each of us have a couple we'd like to flesh out, and even if you come out with some great concept, you'll have to show us that it'll be able to make it to release date.

You would be literally asking us to invest in your project.
Getting a well-defined plan is a great first step and definitely get that design doc up, but you'll also have to prove you have what it takes to carry through.
On many professional design docs, they contain a short resume of some of the people (especially leads) who will work on it.

On your resume, I see that you have experience in 3d modeling and animation. Is there anything we could see?

Maybe, if you haven't led a project before (or atleast independently developed one, hopefully you did), you should consider joining someone else's projects. There is always a need for a good modeler and animator.
Build up a name for yourself and get some titles under your belt.
People will be much more willing to go along with your ideas if they've seen what you can do.

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Q.E.D.

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited September 21, 2007).]

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006
You've gotta give him props tho Arch.

At least he's not like the usual, "Does anyone want to write me an MMORPG for free? I have a lot of experience playing WoW. I'll put your name in the credits."

On a scale of 1 to 10. I'd give your first post a 7.

Welcome to CCN Bowen. The only Christian forum that eats first time posters alive! Mwahahaha.

quote:
I don't want to be too descriptive and bore them to death

You really can never be too descriptive. In fact, the final program is just that, a design spec with zero ambiguity.

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Sam Washburn

Check out my CCN SpeedGame 2 Blog

[This message has been edited by samw3 (edited September 21, 2007).]

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
oh, I do.
I mean, I would love to see what he has done and if it's good, I personally I think he could be a great fit in some current projects.
That's more than I can say for alot of people, especially those who came here with "yayz. I havz projeectz. I don't know anything about programming, art, design, sound, writing, project management, potty training, but I have an idea!"

So, don't take what I said too personally...I'm just not what people conventionally refer to as... "nice"
My heart was broken long ago... I'm just the shell of a man...lol.

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Q.E.D.

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
oh, I do.
I mean, I would love to see what he has done and if it's good, I personally I think he could be a great fit in some current projects.
That's more than I can say for alot of people, especially those who came here with "yayz. I havz projeectz. I don't know anything about programming, art, design, sound, writing, project management, potty training, but I have an idea!"

So, don't take what I said too personally...I'm just not what people conventionally refer to as... "nice"
My heart was broken long ago... I'm just the shell of a man...lol.


dude.....I feel for ya.......so any chance we will ever know EXACTLY what the E-Surance chick did?

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
...sh--she left me for the quick quotes and low rates that only Esurance can offer...

*sigh*
and I went Progressive Auto Insurance...

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Q.E.D.

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
...sh--she left me for the quick quotes and low rates that only Esurance can offer...

*sigh*
and I went Progressive Auto Insurance...


well it is your own dumb fault then dummie, no offense LOLJK

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Bowen
Junior Member

Posts: 3
From: Poulsbo, Wa.
Registered: 09-21-2007
heh actually I'm well aware of most of that ArchAngel. I don't expect things to be a walk in the park. I just want to have a clear idea what programers are going to need from me so I can be ready when they ask for me.

Now I've dabbled in just about everything. I'd like to think I have a fair understanding from art, sound, level design, creative writing etc etc.. and while I do konw something about coding, I'm no coder.

At the last GDC there was a great session on writing design docs and it got me thinking, while I know something I don't know everything, especially how the coder's mind works. Shoot my brother's a great coder and I gave up trying to figure him out a long time ago.

I know there's a LOT that I don't know about what you guys do. I'm also painfully aware that I'm "untested" in this area. You guys don't me. In truth networking isn't my greatest forte, but I'm trying to get better at it.

But back to the original question, and let me set up a more specific scenario. Let's say we're using Torque, and I want to prototype a new melee combat system.

I want to set this system up with a basic combat resolution, damage etc, but I want the animation to be more dynamic and account for positioning, momentum, flow etc.. so that each move follows through to the next.

Basically we'd have to track stance, hand position and weapon orientation, and where the combatants are in relation to each other. Given all of that X number of moves are available based on the 'flow' of the fight.

Now you guys probably don't want to know the characters names and histories (what I meant earlier about being boring and too descriptive). So what I'm looking for is along with a brief explanation of what I'm looking for, how would you guys break this down into a task list? Assuming I want to use this system for possibly several projects.

Also, what (if anything) should be done before working on such a system? (This is where I've no idea what's in Torque) ie memory management etc.

To answer the question about my 3D stuff, yes I have a few renders and simple animations. It's not what I want to do full time though.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
Well, that's good, BOwen.

I'm not entirely sure as to your question:
how would be the algorithm for the combat system or if we were in your shoes, how would be partion off the work?

For partitioning, you'd either have to create the algorithm yourself or find a lead programmer dedicated to the project to do all that work for you.
I might be repeating myself, but you should really know how to code (not just knowledge of functions, but the art of coding itself). But hey, if your good at coming up with algorithms and systematic solutions to problems, should be fine. A coder should be able to implement a good flow chart (granted, those are kinda antiquated...)

Anyhow, I'm gonna talk about what I think to be gist of this thread.
Anyhow, that kind of detail is really for coders who already signed on your project. A description of your project and the characters and histories would be appropriate for your "selling design doc."
While, as I said, ideas are a dime a dozen, programmers will want to jump in on project they believe has an interesting and promising concept.
Mention what you want to accomplish, what your vision is.

So, it seems like you want to develop base melee combat system in Torque Game Engine that implements chained actions in a smooth, flowing links which will be available for use in multiple software projects.

The engineering design doc(with all the gears and gadgets) is really for the lead developer to write up, through negotiations with you. If you already have it, fantastic! You're well on your way to a successful project. If you don't, it should be the first worry of your lead developer.

You should really find a lead dev you trust (if you haven't already, or if you aren't acting as it). I highly suggest you don't try to get one online, where miscommunication, or lack of it, can really hinder progress.

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Q.E.D.

Bowen
Junior Member

Posts: 3
From: Poulsbo, Wa.
Registered: 09-21-2007
heh ok well that's not really the answer I'm looking for, but I suppose that is an answer in of itself.

I don't know about algorithms, but solutions to problems usually aren't a problem.

The melee system is only one of several and not as applicable to the first title I'd like to make. However as someone trained in stage combat it's something of a personal pet peave not to have something like it out there.

There's also the AI, the skill systems, the random event generator with branching cause & effect, the... well you get the idea.

In either case I've got docs to write.

Unfortunately my tragic flaw is I stink at networking. I actually know a fantastic coder. Unfortunately we just wouldn't work well together (we dont' see eye on eye on several fundemental issues). Aside from that if I knew any other coders I probably wouldn't be here. Someone show me a good place to find Christian coders in the Seattle area and I'll check it out.