I feel often, especially among the youth it's easy to get wide eyed and have visions of grandeur. This society is becoming more and more dominated with electronics and especially computer gaming and many young people are looking to get into game design. Having “big dreams” is in the nature of young people. Although having a big vision is good, it's important to balance it with practicality. So my vision is that a group of available people get together and produce something that is doable with the means of which we have been provided. I suggest that a group starts with something basic yet able to hold it's own in it's market. For example a 2D RPG or a side-scroller are free of the complications of 3D gaming yet can still be entertaining.

Being Christians, we should be infatuated with Christ and His bride, the Church. (I speak not of the actual “church” organization, although that may be one way it manifests itself. I speak of the great invisible Church.) Brothers and sisters, we are living in victory. Our adversary, the devil, has been defeated. We are in a war, but we are on the winning side with an infinite God. So how does making these small time games really achieve our “big vision”? The point of making Christian video games really is to have an impact on society and how does making these penny video games really do anything?

Luke 16:10

Whoever can be trusted with very little can also be trusted with much, and whoever is dishonest with very little will also be dishonest with much.

Brothers and sisters, if we cannot complete a small project, there is no way we can accomplish a larger project. Perhaps this engaging on a small project is using the “one talent of gold” that we have and if we prove ourselves wise and perhaps God will find it pleasing in his sight to grant us more.

Who I am:

So, I just gave you a summery of what I was thinking, but who am I? Well, this is what I do. I work with people. I really have no significant skill to myself so without other people I am ultimately worthless. In my past job experienced I found myself in a senior positions in an IT environment. I found myself working with and managing younger technicians. What I do is a pretty humble position. I serve others by encouraging them and helping them to keep focused.

So why all this? What's my goal? This is what I am intending. I am looking to either form a development team to serve with or serve with an existing team. I am hoping I can bring my minor gifts to benefit others. Being trained to be methodical I am skilled at technical documentation. I am also fond of story writing although I certainly don't mind helping with someone else's idea.

Some of you may have known me from before. I used to go under the handle of “Insanepoet” and I was involved in the “Infinitum” project. (I hope that doesn't soil my name, I was very young then, only slightly young now.)

I look forward towards your input,

Thanks

[This message has been edited by irish (edited January 22, 2007).]

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

Oh yeah, Welcome to CCN please enjoy your stay here

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1Jo 2:9-10 He that saith he is in the light, and hateth his brother, is in darkness even until now. 10 He that loveth his brother abideth in the light, and there is none occasion of stumbling in him.
Joh 17:26 And I have declared unto them thy name, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

Good rant! I appreciated reading it, and I totally agree. So often, it's easy to get caught up in wanting to make the next killer game, without taking the first steps and just making something simple like pong.

As Jestermax said, you've nailed many of the design goals of Bible Dave right on the head. We strived to keep it small and achievable, rather than aiming for the stars and just misfiring/stagnating as so many other projects have done. I think we were successful with the goals of that game, and I look forward to seeing more things like that happen on CCN.

I've been working in my own life to be less ideal-focused and to be more productive. I've had great success lately with ceasing to write my own game engines, and just using a pre-made game engine (specifically, Torque Game Builder -- but there are several good engines out there).

I'm thinking of instantiating a set of advice guidelines to be a sort of mantra that I give other people.

1) If you haven't created a single player game, you're not allowed to create a multiplayer game.

2) If you haven't created a 2d game, you're not allowed to create a 3d game.

3) If you haven't created a functional game, you're not allowed to create a game with a plot/story. Focus on making *just a simple game*, then build from there.

I dunno', just some thoughts. Thanks for posting!

--clint

Even at the point where we are ready to produce something beyond pong, it's important to keep in perpective of something that can compete in the market. We may have the ability to make a solid 2d game but only a lackluster 3d game. I feel that as much as we can, make products that are good in their own right. Take music for example; I feel that much of Christian music is of lower quality, but it sells among Christians simply because it is Christian. I feel often things like this rely on their "Christian" label to make them marketable. What really should be the case is that our games should be good in their own right and not rely on the Christian label to sell.

Now I use the terms "marketable" and "sell", which may imply the involvement of money. But you may say that many of the games out there are offered freely. I say nothing is free my friend. If nothing else, the user has to spend his time to play any game and as the old saying goes; time is money.

So whether we are making products to sell or free products, let us design products that can compete in their respective markets.

Well, you may say what ability do we have to produce anything that can compete in any market? I feel too often the case everyone divides up persueing their own vision and everyone tries to do everything themselves. I say, like the body of Christ, a team has different parts and each part has it's own function. There needs to be a specialization of tasks.

I am getting a bit off track here. This is a whole new topic for another day.

To sum things up. I am not a programmer nor an artist. I document and organize.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 22, 2007).]

2) Not everyone at CCN is a professional game developer; its not up to everyone here to make marketable and professional christian based games. If you're looking for that then yes, there are developers on CCN who have done that; check out "Eternal War: Shadows of Light" or "The Axys Adventures: Truth Seeker" for example (as you probably already know). Also, not everyone here writes "hack" code and is unable to work under one leadership role. By this i mean nothing gets done because there isn't one solid vision. It just depends on the members of the team and their experience in a professional environment.
That being said, if you have anything to offer to any of the CCN projects then by all means throw it in there. If you can bring order to a project in chaos then thats great.

[This message has been edited by jestermax (edited January 22, 2007).]

I have been involved in this community in the seemingly distant past, I have some understanding of what talent is around. My point is that not everyone has to be a professional programmer. If a lesser experienced programmer can program a portion of code that will free up a more experienced programmer to tackle something else.

Notice that I never used the word "professional", and when I said "marketable" I specified it to their respective market. Bible Dave for example did a decent job of presenting itself marketable, it had me playing for some time, it therefore gained my "almightly minute".

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 22, 2007).]

are you prepared to take that role?

In terms of this actual community, I was using Bible Dave as an example of what I was talking about in terms of "marketable"

I'm not committing to anything that I really don't know what it will entail. But committing to projects is something I've done in the past. I remember "back in the day" the first "community project" which later became it's own entity was a project I found myself heading up. I was young and inexperienced so it ultimately faded away.

Really, I'm looking for an opportunity to serve.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 22, 2007).]

Anyways.... what sort of music do you listen to? (i'm pretty much the reference of christian music around people i know, and no i don't know everyone here, lol)

I've always been good at seeing the "larger picture" and directing people on "finding their nitche". People generally like me (funny how that works), so i tend to use that to my advantage and get people to cooperate.

My music tastes are classical, celtic folk and classic rock (60s and 70s).

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

I think InsanePoet is going about it the right way. He's not trying to start a new project that will even further fragment the Christian-programmer talent pool, but he's posting some of what he's been learning the past few years, looking for like-minded individuals, and trying to find out where he can help.

I think that's totally the right way to go -- I wish I had more stuff to offer you, InsanePoet. Bible Dave is currently around version 0.7.3 or something, and if you like writing, design, organization, and continuity-checking, then that's a lot of what it will take to bring BD from 0.7 up to 1.0.

BTW, what community project were you on, InsanePoet? The first one that I saw when I first game here to CCN was the happy-walking-dog one, and I don't get the impression that that's the one that you're talking about.

Thanks for the good discussion, all!

--clint

[This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited January 22, 2007).]

This project surprisingly still listed in the showcase. The link there was the domain i registered which has now been bought by someone else so the link is a unrelated site.

Yes Hanclinto, forming another team would only further fragmentation and in addition I don't think I have the time to devout to heading up an entire project. I'm not looking to become some kind of leader, but rather serve as a sort of glue to keep people together.

BTW, what does BD need to move onward. Is there anyway I can contribute?
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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 22, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 22, 2007).]

quote:

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Originally posted by insanepoet:
I'm not looking to become some kind of leader, but rather serve as a sort of glue to keep people together.

---

quote:

---

BTW, what does BD need to move onward. Is there anyway I can contribute?

---

If you'd like to help with something other than Music, I will be releasing Bible Dave 0.7.5 soon, and BD 0.7.5 needs more levels. If you'd like to make a level or test the ones I'm editing/creating please email me @ cpu.crazy at gmail OR jqsoftware dot com

We could also use some help in developing a better plot (We've kinda got a Half Life 1 plot right now, but I want our plot to fill in a few more details, and sound less cheesey [Although I am a writer, I haven't gotten around to writing much of a plot])

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited January 22, 2007).]

Well, I'm looking to serve in what capacity I can. As I said before, what I do is really a humble job. I'm not particularly skilled in art or programming or music or anything really.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

IRISH PIRATES

BTW, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at level design, just give me an editor.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Originally posted by insanepoet:
So, we need music and level design. Do we have a list of what needs to be accomplished to reach the almightly status of "1.0"?

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Please note that this file may be subject to change, but since we're so far along I doubt it will change majorly.

quote:

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BTW, I wouldn't mind trying my hand at level design, just give me an editor.

---

-----------

Now. To load the level editor, you will need to go to your operating system's console/dos prompt and type the following:

python main.py -t

Now, when you are in the main menu press the F11 key to get the level editor. The rest is pretty straight forward, you can edit a level or create a new one.

If you have any questions feel free to ask them.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited January 23, 2007).]

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

To give you a sample of part of what I do, I've composed a simple sample document using the level editor scenario. This particular process isn't too complex that would really require support documentation, I was merely using this as an example. Normally I would automate the setup process with a batch file. This sort of things help increase productivity when you have designers who may not be completely comfortable with the process.

Sample Document:

Bible Dave Editor Mode – Rev A. 01/23/2007

Revision History
Brenton Keegan Original document 01/23/2007

Purpose: The purpose of this document is to instruct the developer on how to enter editing mode (in a Windows XP environment) in Bible Dave for the purposes of level design.

1.Download and install Python 2.4.4 from this location: http://www.python.org/ftp/python/2.4.4/python-2.4.4.msi
2.Download and install Pygame from this location:http://www.pygame.org/ftp/pygame-1.7.1release.win32-py2.4.exe

NOTE: Application installers are for Windows XP Operating systems (x86)

3.Download and extract the Bible Dave source code from here: http://umn.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/bibledave/bibledave_v0.7.1.zip
4.In the bibledave_v0.7.1 folder that is created, create a shortcut of the main.py file and edit the target (accessed by right clicking on the shortcut and going to properties) and add “ -t” to the end of the target path. If there are quotations, include this before the quotations.

*please note that there are various text formating that did not translate to the forum post.

I also know this may not look terribly impressive. I wrote that in 5 minutes and I'm just trying to give you a sample of what I actually do.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

[This message has been edited by insanepoet (edited January 23, 2007).]

quote:

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Originally posted by insanepoet:
Ok, I registered for your wiki. I orignally registered under the handle of insanepoet but the email I linked it to didn't want to recieve the activation email so I reregistered as irishcream.

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quote:

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I also know this may not look terribly impressive. I wrote that in 5 minutes and I'm just trying to give you a sample of what I actually do.

---

I've uploaded a cvs snapshot (with some sound files removed... so you will hear the same noise over and over again when you play certain levels, that's intentional.

You can find the snapshot @: http://bibledave.jqsoftware.com/bibledave-cvs-0.7.5.zip

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

Also, is there some method of communication regarding this project?

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

quote:

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Originally posted by insanepoet:
Alright,

Also, is there some method of communication regarding this project?

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Yes. Mailing list or IRC.
You'll need a sourceforge.net login for the mailing list, or you can join #ccn-chatzone on irc.freenode.net

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

-Getting forum space is critical because it's public communication. IRC is only good if the other people are online the same time you are and email are only viewable by the sender and the receiver.

-Why can't we use the CCN boards as they are and just make a thread? Well, often what happens is things get distracted people will make comments and it's just hard to keep focused when people are going 8 different directions with the conversation. Getting a seperate catagory for posts helps keep things in line.

-Why not a completely seperate forum? Well, this is intended to be a CCN community project. This community is built on the existence of a webpage. Creating a completely other forum board is creating another webpage and thus another community and it would only serve to further fragmentation of Christians in this field.

-Why do we need forums in the first place? Forums are a public form of communication. Public is relative, public could be public to those who are involved or public to all, I would suggest this contains a bit of both where appropiate. But if we have a public board that people can see that we are doing and talking about it will encourage more people to get involved and the more we can work together the more we can accomplish.

-bwoogie
Maybe you'd like to join in on this. This game is programmed in Python from my understanding but maybe there is some ability that you have that you can expand upon by contributing

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2