CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
Hi guys. I'm directing this at the more experienced programmers. I'm pretty good at python now and programming concepts so I've been looking into different languages. Should I continue learning Java? Or try to pick up C#? ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
I'm partial to C#, but Java is a language that's far from dead, and will probably be around for quite a while to come. Either one is good to learn, but it's (currently) easier to get a paying job with C# than with Java (though Java used to be the cash-cow). |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
java is a great learning language, imo, teaching OOP and basic syntax. but if you feel you know enough of java, I suggest trying c#, seems to be used alot ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I know how to print and read from the keyboard thats it. I just don't know which might be the most productive. I'm leaning towards C# because I have never learned a non-interpeted language. ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: haha, okay no. you don't know java. lol. my suggestion is learn it. once you get OOP concepts somewhat down, move on to bigger and better fish. I, however, am still stuck learning java because that's what my college teaches for lower CS courses. which reminds me, I have an java program due in a little bit... ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Python is an OOP language too. The only reason why I started to learn Java was the fact that I'd probably take a AP course on it. But there's lots of talk about them switching it to Python. Thus my intrest in C#. Keep on suggesting here ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 [This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited February 18, 2006).] |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
well, c++ is also OOP, arguably. point was java is good for teaching oop,but it's not the only way. just my suggestion. ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: True. Aaack! I might as well learn java! They're both ugly. I think I'll stick with Java. Thanks guys! ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 [This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited February 18, 2006).] |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
the question is what do you want to do? i'd personally go with C# 2.0 - grab a free visual studio 2005 express edition (and a sql server 2005 free edition as well).. and learn C# with all of its concepts, that go beyond oldschool OO, learn its xml abilities, learn tonnes of stuff, make visual components, make reusable libraries, make fun stuff, do managed direct3d if you want to play, play with sql server 2005, learn T-sql - very good if you want a job, plus lots of interest concepts.. then since youare into python, you can play with iron python mixing it with C# to give you the dynamic mixed with tranditional sort of stuff..also get MSH and use that new windows command shell, lots of fun but in the end, its up to - what do you want to do.. ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Learn a different language that is harder to learn but has a lot of power.
Ok.. in my case, I (already have the linux version of mono the OSS .NET) and I can get mySQL as well.[/B][/QUOTE] Or do you not think that's a good idea? C# looks just as ugly as Java. Am I wrong? ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
i say C++... then when you get good at it you can help me out!! just kidding... lol... i would like to learn java too... sometime.... when i get C++ down... lol... ------------------ |
kiwee Member Posts: 578 From: oxfordshire, england Registered: 04-17-2004 |
(before I say anything, let me remind you that I am only an artist and conposer, and I can't code any programs...at all, this is all from watching my brother program. And may I add that I always get confused when he does it, and I am always amazed when he comes out with a plantry orbital simulation in blitz etc... ) The hardest thing to do in C++ (it seems) is GUI, because you need graphics libarys, etc... (I still don't understand what they are, even after the millionth time of my brother explaining them to me ) Java seems much simpler and easier structured. and you can add Java to websites. (ok, there you go, my limited knowledge of programming has just been expressed in 1 word: Hard The rest of the above paragraph is nonsence and should be ignored. ) |
firemaker103 Member Posts: 643 From: Registered: 07-13-2005 |
One word: BlitzMax Just, awesome. ------------------ [This message has been edited by firemaker103 (edited February 19, 2006).] |
buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
yah, but it's 80 bucks... lol... it's like ur ranting about how good it is... 'rant rant rant good stuff about BlitzMax' me: 'yah, but it's 80 bucks...' 'rant rant rant good stuff about BlitzMax' 'yah, but it's 80 bucks...' 5 mins later: 'YAH, BUT IT'S 80 BUCKS!!' lol!! but Blitz is cool... and easy lol... just it's 80 bucks!! ------------------ [This message has been edited by buddboy (edited February 19, 2006).] |
HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
You think C# is an ugly language? Work with object-oriented C++ for a while, and it will be an absolute joy for you to work with C#. C# is much cleaner than C++. As far as C# vs. Java -- I think C# is nice because of its great built-in XML commenting system. Historically, I never commented my code very much or very well. However, the XML commenting in C# is beautiful, and really helped me comment my code more and better. C and C++ is a good experience though -- it would be a great learning experience for you to learn how to do pointers and your own memory management in those languages (with malloc() and free() ). It's not always fun to learn that stuff, but it will make you appreciate things like automatic garbage collection (like they have in Java and C#) *so* much better. But yeah, I would recommend your next language not be a foo-foo fad language, but C or C-derivative. This means C, C++, C#, or Java. All of them are great to learn, and if you're in the Linux world very much, it may help you to understand more about C and C++ (since 98% of your Linux environment is written in one of those languages). Really, it's up to you, and if you intend to do this stuff seriously, it doesn't really matter that much which one you learn first, because you're going to have to learn them all eventually. C, C++, C#, Java, Perl, Python, PHP, etc. You'll do it all, so just start knockin' them down. C and C++ are great for learning fundamentals, and you will appreciate so much more all that's done for you automagically in C# and Java. |
buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
hmm... how different is C# from C++? ------------------ |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
Tip: If you code in C++ use new and delete operators instead of C's malloc and free. I'm currently learning / doing stuff in java because it's cross platform and applets run in a web browser. It's also great language in mobile programming. Python is also great and one thing I like about python is that it seems to be easier to install in linux than java. ------------------ [VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3) |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I come from a QBASIC and Python background... YES IT THINK IT'S UGLY! Hmm, maybe I should replace C# with regular C! ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I noticed that too with Ubuntu... although right now under Gentoo I have Blackdown's JDK and JRE. ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
if you are going to be just running mono, you should rather go with java and say esclipse enviroment.. mono is great , and good for makign cross platform, but not the place to learn C#.. you can get visual stuido express for free if you want to do C#, but if you want to do it on linux, then you'c better just do java 5.. as for mysql... NO WAY... mysql is a very basic sql, without really good sql features.. its really good for dealing with a lot of data where there are not complex relationships, and you basically just have to get data in and out,and analyse it simply.. but not very good to learning sql in the context of a powerful language.. i do love mysql though. Karl ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Rats. i do love mysql though. Karl Ok, thanks for the tip. I just thought sql was a database; I never knew there was so much involved inside them. I have made up my mind... I'll try regular C. If I get too frustrated, I'll go back to Java. ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I may be a sucker, but..... Libraries....... In computer science, a library is a collection of subprograms used to develop software. Libraries are distinguished from executables in that they are not independent programs; rather, they are "helper" code that provides services to some other independent program. Today the vast majority of the code that executes in a typical application is located in the libraries it uses. The simpelest explanation is: (All this off of define:library using google) ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 [This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited February 19, 2006).] |
D-SIPL Moderator Posts: 1345 From: Maesteg, Wales Registered: 07-21-2001 |
I would go with C#... Java is horrid and really is nothing more then an interesting research project. --D-SIPL ------------------
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vincent Member Posts: 129 From: Amersfoort, the Netherlands Registered: 12-23-2002 |
quote: The creation of C#: On a monday morning Bill was finally looking at Java and thought: 'hey this actually is structred and well thought out, not like the VB crap we sell... lets make a rip-off, call it C# so the C people dig it (not telling them how much is looks like the dreaded Java, which they actually never really looked at, because its not C) and add useless features and bad ideas, like we always do here at Microsoft (think clippy), then we'll hide and secretly laugh at everyone using it, and patting ourselfs on the back saying how smart we are.' |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I got the java impression as soon as I looked at some code! So i've decided to do vanilla C. If I get frustrated, I'll go back to Java. ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
This looks like a nice site for comparing java and C#: http://www.javacamp.org/javavscsharp/ ------------------ [VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3) |
buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
lol funny vincent... i use C++ so i can laugh at that... i think... lol.. ------------------ |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
quote: nice story , and there are some true elements in it to as how some MS stuff is, but this is different. you gotta know the architect of C#.. his name is anders, and he was the creator of turbo pascal, as well as delphi, and introdeuced many of the modern programming concepts to this world, java was initially a virtual machine, implementing delphi programming concepts, with a VM at first, and in fact borland and its legacy of dephi consulted alot with sun, in improving java terribly, like javabeans and much much more. Karl ------------------ |
vincent Member Posts: 129 From: Amersfoort, the Netherlands Registered: 12-23-2002 |
Well, I think C# really lost its head in 'handy features'. Though ofcourse people developing with Microsoft stuff are high on handy features because they're used to it, it kinda clutters the language... making it eventually harder to scale and debug. I must say that the 'more features' thing is happening to Java too, and that doesn't nessesarly make it a good thing. Java used to be easy to learn, but now with annotations and generics its much harder to master. Things like unsafe code and goto's should really not be part of a serious language. There are just too many compromises. Before you'll ask, I'll admit it: I don't dig microsoft. They have too much tendencies I assoicate with evil, like stealing/taking an good idea, perverting it, then selling it like the real thing. |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: I totaly agree. ------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
too many people use microsoft to swtich to something else, at least as far as the network administrator point of view. if i was the network admin somewhere i would use windows 2000 pro/xp pro, and 2000 server/2003 server(ease of use, and easier to get trained people, and cheaper labour), which would mean anything we needed developed would have to be developed for windows...i would rather go with linux on everything but it's hard enough to find people who know how to use windows ...anyway, i'm no coder, and i haven't finished college yet so i'm not a network administrator yet...anyway, my $.02 ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: The only proprietary OS I can stand os OS X If windows is hidden by a fullscreen game, I'm a little content.
------------------ ``After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2 |
Seven7 Member Posts: 50 From: USA Registered: 03-16-2005 |
Assembly Language....it builds character! [This message has been edited by seven7 (edited February 24, 2006).] |
steveth45 Member Posts: 536 From: Eugene, OR, USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
Personally, I would suggest that you learn the basics of C, then C++. After you master C++, you can learn enough to use C# or Java in a weekend or two. C++ is the language that 99% of all XBOX, PS2, GameCube, and high-performance PC games are written in. It's a little more work than C#, since it doesn't have built-in garbage collection but it is _way_ faster. I use C++, C#, and Java at my job. Java is hands-down the slowest--it can reduce a high-performance computing machine into a slow, unresponsive pocket calculator. C# is a bit faster, but I wouldn't use it for anything time-critical. C++ code runs at warp-speed on modern computers. Heck, it runs at warp-speed on 486's. Just my two-cents. ------------------ |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
C++ rules. Im going to keep learning that one. *Below is what i said before... after reading the above post... hahaha*
Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right. PM ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF ME! ILL PUT IT HERE! [This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited February 24, 2006).] |
Seven7 Member Posts: 50 From: USA Registered: 03-16-2005 |
My .2 cents, I would like to attack this question because it's a good question, but I'm I do lecturing at collages/universities and high schools on game design and OK, so that's not a direct answer, so let me be clear. To say the "A" language is better than "B" language is... well... dumb! My advice is that you learn C/C++/C#, learn Visual Basic, learn Java, learn Special Note: If you want to lean OOP (Object Oriented Programming) a Comments: Seventh45: quote: I have to laught at this because I see people wanting to write high end
quote: Everyone faces this problem at some point. Don't beat your head over it.
quote: Me too and I weep for you! Boy, where those the days! [This message has been edited by seven7 (edited February 24, 2006).] |
buddboy Member Posts: 2220 From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S. Registered: 10-08-2004 |
dude... boy did you go ballistic!! lol... but he said what language should he do next! lol... he had already learned one language (Python) and wants to do another... (which you said was good!!) and needs to know which one to do next!! lol... i see some of what you were saying those... lol about the QBASIC... i'm taking a class in that next year.. lol... that and VB.. ------------------ |
steveth45 Member Posts: 536 From: Eugene, OR, USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
Basically, if you're looking for the the next programming language/syntax to learn, it seems the consensus is that the most important, useful and widely used programming languages are object oriented descendents of C. These languages are C++, Java, and C#. If you learn one, you can learn them all. What may also be useful is to learn some important libraries/API's . The Java API, while convoluted and poorly designed, does provide OS independent access to a wide array of functionality. The .NET library created by Microsoft is much better organized than Java's API, but it only works on Windows. C# was designed to work with the .NET library, but you can access it with Visual Basic or "managed" C++. C# (without the .NET library) is available on multiple platforms. Steve ------------------ |