spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
so what do you guys think? I am hearing a lot about people saying java is dying. my career of choice was java coding until i think it was mastallama here who told me c# pays better and i am persuing that right now. lots of people say java will die but on the other hand some people say java is more than a language it's a platform. so what do you think will the days of .jar files and applets jnlp files jsp sites and who doesn't like those midlet cell phone games? will those days be over ? as the matter of fact the only other java fan i know here at ccn is jestermax i can't wait to hear what the rest of you guys have to say on this. ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
nahh. I don't see it happening any time soon. Don't see a reason. and, I know I repeat myself, but please, don't base your career on a single language. You're greatly limiting your options. ------------------ |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
i know what you mean my favorite language is c++ i even like c a lot and i really want to be an asm coder(if it were feasible) but i have to make a choice on what type of degree i want (my choice now is aas in c# specialization) i like java a lot to make actual code and c++ is really fun but although c# is really good as a language i don't like .net very much but if it gets me more jobs and more pay i think that's what i should do for a living. maybe if i go for 4 years degree i will just get a computer science degree. but to get to the point here is a nice article i ran by: i started thinking about this whole thing when www.javalobby.org sent me a news letter about the topic. and i started wondering even me the java fan is turning his back on java? ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
c and cobol are on entirely different scales. C, for one, is a low level language(as opposed to high level languages, like C++, java, etc) and has it uses and I'd say is very much alive. I'd suggest going for a CS degree instead. Anybody can learn a language and while I am no authority on the matter, I personally wouldn't take it seriously. I want someone who can think algorithms, not push out rote code. And say if Java dies, or C# dies, a career built on it will die, too. anyhow, as for Java, I don't see C# taking over. Jestermax and others might correct me, but I've always seen Java more suitable for internet use. C# always appeared to be mostly application based, but perhaps that's mostly out of Visual Studio .NET experience. ------------------ |
TwoBrothersSoftware Member Posts: 141 From: Janesville, Wi USA` Registered: 08-05-2006 |
Java has a ton of support for small devices. I'm starting into the world of Midlets - and it's a pretty robust environment from what I can tell. On the other hand - I'm 42 years old and I don't expect any language I currently code in to be around when I retire. Think about it 20 years ago
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
I will *strongly* second ArchAngel's comment about not tying yourself to one language. No matter which language anyone learns, they should look to see the underlying structure of loops, conditionals, object relationships, etc. and not where a { or a ; should be placed. About java. There is so much business code written in java. It will probably stay around until Y10K when the world itself will finally crash and we'll all be thrown back to the stone age. No really! It's gonna happen! Stock up now on your bottled water and cans-o-beans! Seriously tho, it's best to be able to come to the table saying "You want Java? Yeah, I can do that. C# pays more, ok, I can do that too! Somebody wrote this in Java but you need it in C#. Sure, no problem. But its gonna cost ya". ------------------ |
kenman Member Posts: 518 From: Janesville WI Registered: 08-31-2006 |
quote: Twinkies are better, they can stay on the shelf for 30 years or longer and have better palatability than beans. BTW who ever thought of eating beans while locked up in an air tight chamber anyway - beans  ------------------ If you ain't in the forums, you in the againstums :) |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
Too tru. I guess Java will outlive us all  ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Nien, Herr Spade! A new Java is coming out... and it's going to be totally rockin'! I'm really looking forward to JavaFX, even if I don't use it: http://www.sun.com/software/javafx/index.jsp Java ain't dead, and won't be for quite a while. Plus, as others have pointed out, Java is on a bunch of mobile devices. You don't see C# on the BlackBerry do you? ------------------ "Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh." Open source, open mind. |
SSquared Member Posts: 654 From: Pacific Northwest Registered: 03-22-2005 |
I can't help but stress what others stated. Don't focus so much on a particular language. Especially based on one person's statement regarding salary. Keep in mind mastallama's chart was specific to Houston. The Bay Area is a completely different story. I believe there is an extremely high percentage of Java-based jobs and they pay extremely well. My last four jobs I got specifically due to my C++ knowledge. Companies are finding it more and more difficult to find C++ developers. My current job was also strongly coupled with C# experience. If you are not interested or excited about .NET, then you may find yourself bored and upset. A salary is not going to offset your feelings. What is it about .NET you don't like? As a side note (which maybe this whole post is since I'm not really responding to the 'is Java dead' question), one of our Java developers is starting to work on a project with me. He had no C# experience prior to a few weeks ago. He has since been reading and studying and learning and is now extremely excited about using C# more than having worked in Java. The C# semantics and .NET language have many concepts and ideas which either do not exist in Java or are made much simpler to use. Is Java dead? No. But Microsoft did a really terrific job with .NET (and C#). |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
it's not with c# as a language i have a problem with it's with .net it's good to get a job but it's reliance on windows is what i don't like. .net and c# are one of the reasons that made my buy a windows xp because it's hard to get some stuff running in linux that's made using .net even if it's possible it's still hard and microsoft doesn't have much support for other platforms such as solaris/linux /unix/mac and probably even small devices(but i am not sure) as for portability goes i don't think c# is even that close to java. as a language c# is real nice but the .net libraries although they have lots of nice stuff(specially graphics related like gdi+ and sdl) they are not as fun and solid and imho reliable as java. but since you guys have no problem on using windows and not being able to write once and run anywhere you can find .net fun(specially game devs) but i think this whole thing might be a marketing conspiracy microsoft is behind and there are people who are actually panicing about this. but wouldn't it be nice if they let some of the c++ features in java like operator overloading and pointers. and i don't like the whole idea of having to call you code unsafe just because you use pointers(in c#). i do agree with not sticking to one language as the matter of fact what i had in mind was to take mainframe coding certification on the side. jcl is nice and i'd like to work on on a z/series one day(they say it's cheaper to get a ferrari than an ibm z/series) well i can't wait to see javafx if only they let stuff like jmf in the regular jdk/jre. ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. |
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
"Will Java Die?" Yes, as the world is burned with the fires that melt the elements Java will be destroyed. ------------------ |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
Jestermax and I will team up and write a new jvm when we get to heaven  ------------------ |
jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
I'd say that nobody should really rely entirely on one language. Learning an OOP language like Java/C# is a pretty good option though, if you ARE limited. Either one will be around for a long time and they're very similar in syntax so you can switch around when you get bored. I don't think java will "die" anytime soon. Like someone else here said; there's a ton of support for mobile platforms since you code once and can run it on any cell phone/pda with a JxME JRE (current runtime). JavaFX is coming out and it looks fairly promising, especially after having to work with similar technologies... in my opinion anyway. I'd have to agree that Java IS generally used more for internet uses. or at least it used to with applets, etc. Now, there's a fair amount of schools that use it for algorithm courses and the like since it doesn't break anything (too bad at least) like C can, and developers don't have to worry about memory management and pointers. Not that i'm against any one language :P (stupid ruby...). Anyway, i think i just like Java itself  . It sort of IS a platform by itself since it has all the bells and whistles that you'd normally need to download from a 3rd party supplier and an int is always an int. Anyway, sorry my post is a bit scattered. ------------------ |
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CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Well there's Mono for .Net 1.0, 1.1, and 2.0. It runs on most OS on the planet. The Unity Game Engine uses Mono, and it's relying on Mono to make a profit by selling the engine. Plus, you can write and test a c# app on Mono under Linux/OSX and then run it on Windows. ------------------ "Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh." Open source, open mind. |
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SSquared Member Posts: 654 From: Pacific Northwest Registered: 03-22-2005 |
Not liking .NET due to less portability and more reliance on Windows is a valid reason. Thanks for saying your reason. But do you just not like Windows? Job-wise, there are certainly plenty of jobs out there, so I don't see why portability is that much of an issue for you, unless you are really more of a Unix person. In that case, I would say the .NET route may not be the right choice. > but wouldn't it be nice if they let some of the c++ features in java I found this confusing. I think the first sentence is in regards to Java (since C# allows for both) and the second sentence is in regards to C#. Is that correct? I think the use of the word 'unsafe' is a great idea. It lets you know there are some potential issues which may cause your program to crash. A pointer may be NULL. A pointer can be converted/cast to the wrong type. There are many issues which can crop up when using pointers. 'unsafe' just lets you know of potential problems and helps catch things during compilation as well. (I don't think I have actually used the 'unsafe' keyword yet. I haven't yet needed to deal with a pointer in C#.) |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
yeah right if it works compiling using gmcs is a daunting task and it's past a week since i have been trying to get monodevelop to run on linux. and how about porting apps is c# as easy as java and how about ide's i haven't seen monodevelop but it can't be better than netbeans or eclipse. and does .net have an equivalent of jnlp(java web start). but something tells me there could still be a better language when c# meets java.... Edit: @ssquared ------------------ Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me. [This message has been edited by spade89 (edited August 29, 2007).] |
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jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
Eclipse, NetBeans, JDeveloper, JBuilder and any other ide are only good if you know how to use the features. Otherwise it's just a memory chomper for your computer. I like that there are a ton of decent-to-great ide's for java but in my opinion, the bulk of the greatness is in visual studio (just my opinion, don't kill me linux dudes :P ). But that means that M$ gets the final say and sale on everything. I actively use both C# and Java and everything has it's gives and takes so it's more about what you're willing to deal with, then it is a "programming language" issue. ------------------ |
Super Angel Steve Member Posts: 212 From: Staten Island,Ny Registered: 05-10-2006 |
Java Will Never Ever Die. Java is one of the Most useful[and sometimes needed]Programs in the World. ------------------ |
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jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
quote: there you have it folks ------------------ |
