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Cathedral upset with Sony over war game – BrianT

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
Interesting read! Comments?

Cathedral row over video war game

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Brian

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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I think it is a load of crap---I bet that cathedral was at least in a minor scene somewhere in V for Vendetta yet they aren't suing that because they know they would lose against a film, but since games are popular political targets half their work is done for them and they may get some money out of this---heck, if they were real Christians they would love the opportunity to reach out to gamers--come see the real deal of the place from the game (with the idea that they could outreach to gamers through it)----for the record BTW Resistance is a rockin' game--I play with Vailion (I think his name here is Angel) all the time on it--if anyone else here gets PS3s let us know so we can all play---LOL actually the church is my favorite level in multiplayer because it is only one tiny part of a big city--a great sniping spot with both rocket launchers and sniper rifles in easy reach--although you can only see part of the city from the church due to the stupid trees blocking...but oh well I guess that makes it more fair hehe.

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited June 10, 2007).]

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Yeah, I heard about that - somewhere... oh yeah, on the BlitzBasic forums.

Most of them weren't Christians, but surprisingly about half seemed to be on the church's side.

The others thought it was nuts and I agree with them.

InsanePoet

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Posts: 638
From: Vermont, USA
Registered: 03-12-2003
Looks like they are trying to make a quick buck.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
http://ps3.ign.com/articles/795/795488p1.html

In the IGN story it says the church is now asking Sony to donate part of the profits to them---pharisees all the way man I am half way there to googling the church's website and sending them a piece of my mind---they make all Jesus freaks look bad because they are so dang desperate to make a buck--jerks. I wish there was a special telegram service where you could send a kick-in-the-sweet-spot half way across the globe--couldn't you just imagine it? DING DONG--hello? BAM!!!

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I personally think it'd be the coolest thing to have my church in the game.

back in highschool, a friend and I were considered on making an UT map of our church.

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zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
I personally think it'd be the coolest thing to have my church in the game.

back in highschool, a friend and I were considered on making an UT map of our church.


LOL did you hear about that kid back east somewhere who got suspended for making a CS map of his school? I think they said they construed it as him trying to inspire a Virginia Tech esque shooting at his school--dumb huh?

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I know. haha. as soon as I read that, I looked back when I was dreaming about making a UT map of my school. haha.

and I'm korean.

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Lazarus

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Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
I've always wanted to model a game level with the place I live at in it.

Too much work...

Korean... stereotyping... *cough cough*

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
Well, I can certainly appreciate taking beautiful places like cathedrals and creating 3D environments from them - that is just plain awesome. However, I do understand the cathedral's objection: "My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves" kind-of-thing. A place of peace and worship is portrayed as a place of war and killing.

I think the church is justified in objecting to Sony's use of it, but at the same time I'm not sure about the legalities of the challenge - it is a private property, but it is open to the public. Anyway, hopefully good will result from this controversy: maybe kids who have played the game will visit the church out of interest, and through that get exposure to Christ and the gospel.

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Brian

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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I understand your position man (and I know, to a degree, you were playin' devil's advocate there) but asking for a portion of the profits and suing like that to me comes off as the den of thieves thing--plus, if you play the game, it isn't a place of war exactly---the church was partially destroyed--much like a lot of England--in the game by the Chimera and you run through it in an attempt to catch up with your convoy---but even if it was a war game I have seen many that have used cathedrals and the churches never objected---I know this could be up for debate but I don't think Sony's use falls into the den of thieves thing, and I certainly don't think those church people are representing Jesus as much as they are just being businessmen and seeing a financial opportunity.

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Faith_Warrior

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Posts: 490
From: So.Cal.
Registered: 09-05-2006
Maybe the Anglicans are attempting to raise some extra funds before their planned merger into the Roman Catholic Church? They are probably taking orders from the Pope at this point anyway so who knows where this is coming from and were any such spoils will flow. Takes a lot of cash to maintain the largest denomination, once the merger happens at least, which is planned to be formally announced by the Vatican this year.
MastaLlama

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Posts: 671
From: Houston, TX USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
Merger or no merger, the Pope could put it on the "DO NOT BUY" list as he has with many good books and movies as well. I don't think it would hurt sales though; I'm actually more interested in the game now that I know there's controversy!
Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
Well, I would assume that many more Catholic cathedrals and other structures have been used in games than Anglican, and I do not recall the Vatican commenting on this before, so I don't buy that connection. And although Anglicans and Catholics have been in "talks" for some time (decades) now, and although they often appear very similar in style of worship, etc., there's some MAJOR doctrinal differences (especially the authority of the Pope, etc.) that would have to be overcome before any "merger" were to take place. I personally don't think it will happen.

Also remember that different churches (of the same denomination) are going to react differently. I remember discussion when "The DaVinci Code" was in production, how one Anglican church was opposed to them using their church in the film, but another welcomed it, so the producers switched churches.

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Brian

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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I wonder if the church has got flame mail yet over this, something tells me the negative PR may cause them to drop it---and I doubt they would ever get very far in the courts. As far as the Catholic Church, well their pope was in the Hitler Youth so you never know--right there to me speaks creepyness, but why jump at stuff now and ignore the DaVinci Code? I don't know--I love Jesus, he is my lord and savior, but I have had a lot of bad luck running into people that get high up at churches and scam and hurt lots of people---and they always have a reason why they can do it but no one else---I can't tell you the amount of times I have seen horrific things done by money hungry 'Christians'---even in my own extended family---so I have no respect for jerks like this--they hurt in the name of God then say they don't have to reach out to people because 'The Holy Spirit would bring them here if they are meant to be saved'----don't get me wrong the Holy Spirit is powerful, but these jerks are just scam artists who think they can coat their crimes in religous talk and make it ok--unfortunate for them that God is smarter than that.....

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Faith_Warrior

Member

Posts: 490
From: So.Cal.
Registered: 09-05-2006
quote:
Originally posted by BrianT:
I personally don't think it will happen.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1403702.ece

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:
Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by BrianT:
[b]I personally don't think it will happen.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article1403702.ece

[/B][/QUOTE]


Yes, I know of the talks, and agree there will probably be many Anglicans that end up returning to Catholicism (and maybe even retaining some of their Anglican "flavor"), but note that article says:

"But many fear that the divisions have gone too far to be bridged and that, if they cannot even share Communion with each other, there is little hope that they will agree on a statement of common doctrine."

This is basically what I'm referring to. The Vatican is not going to redefine the Eucharist just to make it easier for Anglicans to come back, and most Anglicans (liberal or traditional) are not going to accept the "real presence" aspect of Catholic Eucharist. Similarly, many Anglicans reject the idea of Papal supremacy and infallibility. The Catholics aren't going to give up that doctrine to appease some potential new members. Yes, there are going to be Anglicans that return to Catholicism, but it will be the Anglican Faith that does the vast majority of the compromises in such cases. That's not really a "merger" in my thinking (i.e. both sides compromising to a middle-ground), that's just some Anglicans coming back under the Catholic umbrella. This happens all the times with individuals from all denominations, the "Anglican talks" are just opening the door for groups of Anglicans to make that transition, instead of on an individual basis like already happens with Baptists, Lutherans, etc., etc., etc.

Just my understanding and opinion, of course.

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Brian

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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Man, I didn't know about any of that kind of stuff hehe! I knew of the Anglican and Catholic churches of course, but man what ever happened to just reading the Bible and following it instead of what someone in a pretty outfit or suit tells you??

Related note: I read the Message version of the Bible and I came across a passage where Jesus starts talking and saying things like, 'Don't ever let someone put themselves in a position of religous power or prestige over you' and 'You are all students with one teacher, me' and the kicker, 'Don't let someone make you call them father or master'---all of these, from the context I got, refer to religous settings---man if I read it right the Catholic church (not to mention a bunch others) would be in hot water---but then again I have run into so many people with dogmatic beliefs that downright contradict what Jesus said---LOL I remember my reaction the first time reading John in the Message---my jaw was dropped the whole time and I have been a Christian since 5!

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Faith_Warrior

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Posts: 490
From: So.Cal.
Registered: 09-05-2006
When I say merger, I mean absorption, which is what merger means http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?sourceid=Mozilla-search&va=merger As has happened, some have been absorbed into RCC leadership roles already and I think this process is going to continue with the RCC absorbing a good percentage of the Anglican church.

Europe is already seeing a great decline in church attendance, over 60% of the British are professing atheists where as itís less than 10% in the US and not sure about Canadians but Iím sure better off than Europe. The Church is dieing in Europe, even the EUís constitution is anti-Christian as has been commented on by the Pope. But anyway, merger with retaining identity does not seem to be what they are headed for, the purpose of it as reported is to retain moral standards within the church since there are many liberal factions derailing the Anglican church.

Is it a wise decision? From my perspective, not at all, but in light of Europeís decline into an anti-Christian state they probably will absorb into the RCC if anything for survivability sake by their understanding. Not an entirely bad thing though, the Anglican church isnít the only church to attend apart from the RCC, my church has been very active in church planting throughout Europe over the past decade or so, we will probably see even more church growth in the future than is currently underway by providing sanctuary to those that decide to split off from the whole ordeal.

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
see, all that kind of stuff to me tends to blurr Jesus out of the picture and turn Christianity into a business venture, then they wonder why Athiests are around. Back in the mid-90's a DCTalk song started off with a quote about how the leading cause of Athiesm is Christians who claim Jesus with their mouths then do selfish things in their lives that show things like money are their true gods. Especially in Europe, where a lot of historical church activity has been decidedly anti-Christian in nature (non-action during the holocaust, the inquisition, things such as this lawsuit--which I know isn't as severe but still negative) I can see why those people don't believe---they don't understand that Jesus is totally different from that. Jesus isn't conservative or liberal or Anglican or Protestant or any of that BS--he is something real and different and many organizations out there try to slap his name on products and 'services' to make a buck or gain political power and end up causing a massive amount of damage in the process.

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Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:

but man what ever happened to just reading the Bible and following it instead of what someone in a pretty outfit or suit tells you??

There's pros and cons for each approach.

quote:
Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
As has happened, some have been absorbed into RCC leadership roles already and I think this process is going to continue with the RCC absorbing a good percentage of the Anglican church.

I agree. To some extent, this will certainly happen. The Anglican church will still exist as well, consisting of those who don't convert. My main point was only that it will be those Anglicans bending to Catholicism, and not Catholicism bending to them.

quote:

But anyway, merger with retaining identity does not seem to be what they are headed for, the purpose of it as reported is to retain moral standards within the church since there are many liberal factions derailing the Anglican church.

It will be interesting to watch what happens. What usually happens, is either people leave the denomination and also the denomination splits into sub-denominations. I suspect this will be the case here: some will leave and become Catholics (perhaps even in small groups), while "Anglican" will split into a "traditional" Anglican denomination, a "reformed" Anglican denomination, and who knows how many "liberal" Anglican denominations. And then mix in East (Europe) and West (US).

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Brian

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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Yeah, hehe but what I meant in general about reading the Bible and following it is that most of these major churches add crap (like not eating meat on fridays or jumping on your left leg while saying the alphabet backwards blah blah blah) that have no Biblical standing--and that ends up reaching into their overall actions including this merger, which makes them look more like corporations than a body of Christ.

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