Lazarus referred to 1 Timothy 6:8-10, which does have a bearing on the question, but I think that a meditation upon Mark 12:31 (which refers back to Leviticus 19:18), upon the methodology of gambling (how does one gain money through gambling; what are the consequences for others, etc.?), and upon how the two relate to each other will give a much clearer answer. In Mark 12:31 we are commanded to “Love your neighbor as yourself,” and the word therein translated as “Love” is the Greek word “agapao” which means to sacrifice yourself for the sake of others. In gambling, the only way that you gain money (which is the only reason to engage in the activity at all) is by others losing money (which is different than normal commerce, in which both parties usually gain something). In gambling, the party that loses money does not gain anything other than money, but only loses money. How does this square with the command to sacrifice ourselves for the sake of others (Mark 12:31)? Does it not run exactly against the command? Does that not mean that it is a sinful thing to engage in?

Some will call this legalism, but it is not legalism at all. Legalism involves an outward attempt to appear righteous. The application of Mark 12:31 does not involve an outward appearance at all, but is a matter of the heart; it is a matter of motivation: do you sacrifice yourself for the sake of others, or do you not? You are commanded to do so. The simple, logical application of Mark 12:31 to various matters of life and living is merely an obedience of the command that the LORD Himself has said is the second most important command in all of scripture. We should not be attempting to gain at the expense of others, but should seek to lose if it is necessary so that others may gain. That is the very essence of the command.

Gambling is never necessary for you to lose so that others may gain. If you want to give money to others, simply give it to them, but do not attempt to disguise your seeking after gain in order to appear righteous according to the command when you are actually seeking after gain at the expense of others, which is disobedience of the command.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

Your explanation of why gambling is wrong is better than mine. That's actually a really good point altogether. I'm just curious as to whether or not you think that applies to gambling corporations in the same way that it applies to individuals.

Here's what I had to say about gambling (speaking the to Captain, I mean, Lazarus on another forum):
I'm in no way a proponent of gambling. I just wanted the (now banned) person to give me a legitimate answer instead of suggesting I'm lazy or needing to be spoonfed information. Oh well. For what it's worth, the passage you quoted seems to be much more in line with Demon Hunter's "Snap Your Fingers, Snap Your Neck" than the idea of gambling.

You want the good life?
You break your back.
You snap your fingers.
You snap your neck.

A grotesque image of a grotesque way of living. That verse (1 Timothy 6:8, right?) seems to be saying that the love of money will cause you to commit all kinds of evil and will destroy you. Gambling can be one of the things that looks like, but it's not necessarily the only thing.

The verse about "being wise stewards of what God's given you" seems much more applicable to gambling. That's probably the most prominent anti-gambling verse I know of. Of course, if you take that verse to its full extent, a great deal of what we as Americans typically do will be sin as well. If we throw away money on some temporary entertainment without a purpose (beyond entertainment) behind it, then we would be just as much in the wrong (not being wise stewards) as if we were gambling.

Not a big deal. I'm not looking to press the topic. I just wanted to point out that I get why gambling is bad, but I wanted that person to explain it to me in his own words.

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Portal with information on my programming projects and links to my other work

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gambling is simply a risk/benefit wager.
throughout life, we are constantly making decisions weighing out risks and benefits. is that wrong? not at all.

betting your wife in a poker match is wrong, tho.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2181030.html?menu=news.quirkies

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

And they wonder why there are so many denominations...

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
gambling isn't sinful, being irresponsible is.

gambling is simply a risk/benefit wager.
throughout life, we are constantly making decisions weighing out risks and benefits. is that wrong? not at all.

betting your wife in a poker match is wrong, tho.
http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_2181030.html?menu=news.quirkies

---

Very well put :-)

Lazarus: Christianity boils down to one simple question: We all know (through both Religious talk and verified secular history) that Jesus walked the Earth and made his messianic claim (claiming to be the Son of God) many times----so the question is do you believe it? I know you do---but I am saying that is what defines Christianity, the rules of religion for the most part are man made and are intended to give a facade of holiness, which is why you have so many denomonations (like you said)---when people place rules above Jesus himself---LOL that is why I sometimes prefer to call myself a Jesus Freak than a Christian---people then know more steadily that I am hooked on Jesus and not necessarily random rules and the like (not saying there isn't rules to living a decent life, but people tend to add a bunch of crap ones to create that phony holiness)

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But on the extreme end I really do not like the big gambling establishments, they are popping up around everywhere I live and are often established and supported by shady organized business groups. I don't like governments supported gambling either such as the lotto.

Gambling is one of the things I had to decide on in my design docs for my game, I decided to not use any gambling, same reason I'm leaving out alcohol and tobacco, it's not always in someones interest to be exposed to it for one reason or anther, not because some call it sin, but because some have a tuff time with the desire to do those things. On a brighter note, I'll still allow Women

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:

gambling is simply a risk/benefit wager.
throughout life, we are constantly making decisions weighing out risks and benefits. is that wrong? not at all.

---

Do you believe God affects all things or is there actually something called random?
Hmm God did give us basic understanding to avoid risks but what about gaining our daily bread, is it big risk to trust what Jesus says and not to worry about tomorrow? And if we want wealth why don't we just pray God to give us money?
Let's think about these and keep in mind what Jesus promised, He will take care of everything and everything we ask will be given to us. (Mar 11:24)

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Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

I just got my monthly stats report for my website for March 2007. The number of Total Visits? 711

And I got the report on April 1st.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

After all, gambling is indeed a bad "investment".
A person is most likely going to LOSE your money doing it.

For example, I admit to losing $50 a few years ago in Reno Nevada at a poker machine.

Was it a waste? yeah...

That money coulda been spent on a new model for Noah2 rather than give it up to a machine. lol

When people drive themselves to higher mortgages, big smokes and hard drinks because of gambling debts, then it has to be a sin.

Gambling is a "Self-Centered" event. It's just for ones pleasure. lol
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there ain't no God in it.

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

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quote:

---

Originally posted by zookey:
video games could be classified like that too though---because you are investing money in a machine----

like Arch said those things aren't sin but being irresponsible is.

---

But big casino gambling promotes false hope of BIG financial returns and that is a lie from the father of all lies.

About the video games:
Yes, people buy them to be entertained, but they can also be used for ministry to promote the bible and things.

Remember something:
The angels use all this entertainment that we get for THEIR entertainment!

Yep, just when we thought we all were all alone down here, then I found out that the earth is just a giant BIG colliseum for the angels to play in with us. Not joking either. and guess what? WE ARE THEIR TOYS!

The question is, when we gamble, who is being entertained? The demons or the good ones? It's a thought.

Well, back to programming...

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

[This message has been edited by RA Games (edited April 01, 2007).]

The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.
Pro 16:33

Lay not up for yourselves treasures upon earth, where moth and rust doth corrupt, and where thieves break through and steal:
Mat 6:19

But seek ye first the kingdom of God, and his righteousness; and all these things shall be added unto you.
Mat 6:33

The last two verses from Matthew should be read in context from Mat 6:19-34.

If there's any questions I would like to try and answer, especially if you wonder scripture in matthew.

In Christ,
Jari.

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Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by jari:
The last two verses from Matthew should be read in context from Mat 6:19-34.

---

Having read through the given context (Matthew 6:19ff), I was given over to one thought, and I think that it would do ALL of us good to be constantly aware of and ready to answer that question. The question is simply this: If your eyes are not upon Jesus, pray tell what are they on?

What is the term most accurately used to identify anything that draws our attention away from our LORD and Saviour, Jesus, the Christ? I have to face that last question myself, and while I am certain that I don't particularly like the accurate answer, I am just as thoroughly convinced that the accurate answer is in fact accurate, and must be faced. If our eyes are not upon Jesus how can we claim that we follow Jesus, whom we are not even watching? Oh, LORD, forgive me my impure and loathsome sin, my mind that so frequently strays from You. Set my eyes upon Jesus. Set my mind upon You. Set my heart to follow the One, the wonderful image of You. Amen.

Jari, what is it like to be a Christian in Scandinavia? I cannot imagine that it is easier than here, in the USA.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

Putting money into a game in which the chances of losing money or gaining money is based on 'luck' or 'chance' is gambling, aka wrong.

Putting money into a game or event in which it is based on your own 'skill', ie I'll bet $50 I will race you to the end of the street and win. My conviction doesn't have a problem with that.

Good posts -- thanks for the read.

There is another aspect of gambling though, that hasn't been touched on very clearly yet.

TallBill brought up the point that it's not loving your neighbor if you're trying to get rich off of his loss. That is very true -- but there are also some forms of gambling that don't require that people lose their shirts for it (an example of this could be playing dollar Bingo or perhaps the lottery).

The Bible (particularly in Proverbs) speaks well of men who are wealthy, but it criticizes the man who desires gain without work. The "get rich quick and easy" mentality -- it's a completely unbiblical mindset that scripture addresses clearly (sorry, I don't have references off the top of my head). I think that's one of the worst things about gambling, is that it caters to the "get rich quick" mindset.

I don't think that I have a problem with betting or gambling in so far as it remains a game (penny poker, for instance) -- but if I'm trying to get rich at someone else's expense, or without much effort on my part, then I think I would have a problem with that.

--clint

not only is gambling sinful the very fact that you stand in a casino ,or visit a gambling site is a sin .
just like if you go to a gay wedding or go to a party(sinful) or to a night club you will be judged for standing together to sin with others.
or standing with a rebillion against GOD.

getting back on topic,you don't even have to be a Christian to know gambling is wrong,your conscious tells you that GOD has written his laws in our hearts.

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

I'm inclined to agree with what Clint said - s'what I've always been taught and it does make sense.

94% of americans call themselves Christians but the u.s. is the third most unreached nation by the gospel.

and there are 3 types of people
natural
spiritual
carnal

depends in which category you lie in too. real Christians are spiritual fake ones are carnal and non-Christians are natural.

EDIT: by the way what i said(about types of people) was based on the BIBLE not solely by my own opinion.
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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited April 02, 2007).]

Back to what Archangel said (which is common sense, which must mean it was part of that law God placed in our basic operating system)--gambling isn't a sin, being irresponsible is because, once you are irresponsible about it, gambling takes over as your god and replaces Jesus---and ANYTHNG can do that---that is like saying video games, eating, reading, movies or even reading the Bible is a sin (some people actually get to a point of worshiping the book over the God and Savior whom it is about)----anything can be taken to an irresponsible degree.

And, as far as standing in a Casino---it is not a sin. And whether you go to a gay wedding or do something else, you can ask God for forgiveness and he said he will forgive you---that is what Jesus did for us on the cross, there is only one sin in the Bible that is permanent and non-changable which is to accept the mark of the beast in the tribulation, anything else (including homosexuality, which incidentally means we are meant to reach out to them) God sent Jesus to cover it, and Jesus gave us the perfect example buy talking with lepers, protecting prostitutes and eating with tax collectors---he himself said he came not to condemn the world but save it so while we should hate sin, our primary focus should be his love and that should guide everything else.

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited April 02, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by zookey (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
real Christians are spiritual

---

I know there is a truth to this idea, but I respectfully disagree with it.
Modern day christians just over-simplify the supernatural in my opinion.

Because, I used to be a very SPIRITUAL person, but was not a christian.
I converted from atheist to a believer in spirits first and not from a christian conversion, but because I started seeing and talking to the very demons that I communicated with in the occult.
- if you see, hear and talk to them, then you become a "believer". -

Sorry to disagree, but some of the most "spiritual" people on the earth are not christians at all.

Look at Bin Laden. Look at the servants of BAAL in the bible.
Look at your neighborhood PALM reader or seance person.
Those people are very spiritual, but so what?

In truth, they are spiritual and going to hell for it...

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

quote:

---

Originally posted by RA Games:
I know there is a truth to this idea, but I respectfully disagree with it.
Modern day christians just over-simplify the supernatural in my opinion.

Because, I used to be a very SPIRITUAL person, but was not a christian.
I converted from atheist to a believer in spirits first and not from a christian conversion, but because I started [b] seeing and talking to the very demons that I communicated with in the occult.
- if you see, hear and talk to them, then you become a "believer". -

Sorry to disagree, but some of the most "spiritual" people on the earth are not christians at all.

Look at Bin Laden. Look at the servants of BAAL in the bible.
Look at your neighborhood PALM reader or seance person.
Those people are very spiritual, but so what?

In truth, they are spiritual and going to hell for it...

[/B]

---

Very insightful information man, and actually really cool to hear seeing how you went the whole spectrum and have first hand knowledge If you want to read a similar book, I know the author's first name is Joanne or something like that and the book is called The Beautiful Side of Evil it is about how she went through the occult (even performing in occultic surgeries) and a lot of freaky stuff happened--she then became a christian and turned her life around--would make one heck of a movie and is very solid and well written--when I was in High School I actually wrote a school paper article and used it as a resource. LOL a little off topic I know but I figured you might be interested in that book and wanted to give kudos that is good info man!

Edit: the author's name is Johanna Michaleson (sp might be off)

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
not only is gambling sinful it is by itself a sin . i'll try to find the scripture where it says that.

---

For example, my brother wanted to bet his life(if he lost he'd be my slave, he said) that I couldn't win an arm-wrestling competition.

"Hey bro, go make my bed! And while you're at it, straighten up the closet."

Yeah, there are many things to gamble besides money.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
just because someone says he is a Christian it doesn't mean he is.

94% of americans call themselves Christians but the u.s. is the third most unreached nation by the gospel.

---

I hope you realize that each person has their own unique convictions of their own, outside of clear-cut rules in the Bible. The Bible even says so, read 1 Corithians, chapter 8, I think the solution of the problem back then can apply to today's issues.

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
Not only is gambling sinful it is by itself a sin . I'll try to find the scripture where it says that.

Not only is gambling sinful the very fact that you stand in a casino, or visit a gambling site is a sin; just like if you go to a gay wedding or go to a party (sinful) or to a night club you will be judged for standing together to sin with others—or standing with a rebellion against GOD.

getting back on topic,you don't even have to be a Christian to know gambling is wrong,your conscious tells you that GOD has written his laws in our hearts.

---

Tread lightly, spade. Some of your examples would make Jesus a sinner.

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

Nice talking with you and everybody.
I will research that book. Thanks...

ABOUT SPIRITUALITY:
If you guys want to read a story about how I confronted a "Buddhist Christian" once, then click on the link below to read about it.
This guy was a recently converted Buddhist that attended bible studies and still practiced his old faith there.

http://www.christiansongwriting.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1058&postdays=0&pos torder=asc&start=0

Basically, his powers were all broken by the Name of Jesus.
Why? Well, because He is the name above ALL names.
At first, the buddhist had power over me, until I asked Jesus and then boom, his power was gone!

Btw, I posted it about the time I got banned from that site.
LOL

Question: Was the Buddhist a SPIRITUAL man?
Answer: Yeah, sure he was, but not of God.

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

[This message has been edited by RA Games (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
Originally posted by spade89:
not only is gambling sinful it is by itself a sin . I'll try to find the scripture where it says that.

Yet gambling isn’t always about money, it simply is a draw with an outcome, there can be larger bets than simply for money, lets not elevate money so highly. Do a topical search on the Disciple Matthias for an example.

---

The Biblical practice of casting lots had nothing at all to do with gambling, but was a genuine effort to seek the guidance of the LORD. Remember, it is a matter of the heart, of motivation.

Another example: The Bible teaches that those who make a point of public ministry for the sake of recognition are committing sin. Jesus' ministry was extremely public. Was He sinning by having a public ministry? Not at all! His MOTIVATION had nothing to do with recognition or anything else public, but was obedience of the Father, and the redemption of His bride, the Church.

What is the motivation? What is the motivation to gamble if not personal gain at the expense of others? How does THAT fit with Mark 12:31 (sacrifice yourself for the sake of others)?

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

[This message has been edited by TallBill (edited April 02, 2007).]

this is a quick post so i'll make my point later on but i could even show you how the very idea of accumilating wealth for the sake of accumulating wealth is a sin remember how JESUS said it is easier for a camel to go through an eye of a needle than a rich man to get into heaven??

btw,if there are non-Christians here don't argue with me , my argument is with those who have the wrong idea.

and also if you don't prove me wrong i think that what i say is right and what you say is wrong. sorry if i seem kinda too persuasive here but there can only be one version of the truth and no statement can be both true and false so i believe what i believe is right that means what everyone else believes is wrong but i am a human and i can be wrong so my ears are open to those who wish to disprove me.

and i haven't made my point yet this is just a quick post.

p.s.: i am not referning to anyone specificaly here but generally it is wrong to try to make either JESUS or his words adopt to our life and our beliefs it should be the other way around.

oh and this scripture was of use to me about carnality and things like that...
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=53&chapter=3&version=45&context=chapter

althought i haven't read all of it this article seems to be of some use:
http://www.iamnotofthisworld.com/2-Articles/3-Is-Gambling-Wrong.html

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

[This message has been edited by spade89 (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
i think you don't understand the concept of spirituality it means you seek after the spirit and not after the flesh as in gambling.

---

The closest thing to gambling is concerning casting lots, it is very similar if not the same thing entirely. In such a case there is a random (or skillful) draw which decides the outcome. Technically the same thing as gambling. In the case of Matthias, it was not entirely the correct thing to do in that case, if you did that topical search as I requested you would find that this was the only place in scripture that Matthias had mention. So the outcome of the chance role was seeming not a good outcome for replacing Judas where if by sprayer and waiting on God they probably would have replaced Judas with Saul. But even in this it was not counted as a sin to do that, but it made no real difference to God since he had His own replacement lined up, God is still in control.

Now I can give a multitude of examples where gambling could be drawn to a sin situation,, but gambling is still not a sin in and of itself, there is no scripture to really support such a position. Personally I’d prefer to hit the arcade or movie theater, that is my idea of a form of entertainment that I like, but not everyone is like me.

Jesus attended parties and hung out with sinners. According to your examples He would necessarily be a sinner for having done so. That causes a problem. Since Jesus is most definitely NOT a sinner, the problem rests with your examples.

Faith_Warrior,

The Bible gives numerous examples of people casting lots and of people gambling and in every case it specifies which is happening. When they are said to be casting lots, the motivation is akin to throwing a problem on the altar and letting God sort it out (by directing the lot). When it is gambling, the Bible comes right out and says so, as in they gambled for His clothing. The motivation in this in not anything to do with God sorting it out, as those doing the gambling did not even believe. The motivation is diametrically different, and we mustn't lose that.

------------------
Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
not only is gambling sinful it is by itself a sin . i'll try to find the scripture where it says that.

not only is gambling sinful the very fact that you stand in a casino ,or visit a gambling site is a sin .
just like if you go to a gay wedding or go to a party(sinful) or to a night club you will be judged for standing together to sin with others.
or standing with a rebillion against GOD.

---

Apparently you found the fifth gospel or what not.
TallBill pointed out a very big point. Jesus would sit and dine with sinners.
Becareful you don't get caught up in your own morality.
The Pharisees did that and Jesus dealt sharply with them.

quote:

---

94% of americans call themselves Christians but the u.s. is the third most unreached nation by the gospel.

---

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
Apparently you found the fifth gospel or what not.

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
Apparently you found the fifth gospel or what not.

---

Actually there were many Gnostic Gospels, some are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_gospels

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 02, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by LAVA:
Actually there were many Gnostic Gospels, some are listed here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnostic_gospels

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited April 02, 2007).]

---

quote:

---

I don't think that I have a problem with betting or gambling in so far as it remains a game (penny poker, for instance) -- but if I'm trying to get rich at someone else's expense, or without much effort on my part, then I think I would have a problem with that.

---

I think that sums up my thoughts on what type of gambling I think would be a sin.

Though I do have some other comments (take them or leave them lol

quote:

---

Putting money into a game or event in which it is based on your own 'skill', ie I'll bet $50 I will race you to the end of the street and win. My conviction doesn't have a problem with that.

---

Under this context professional gamblers wouldn't be a problem? Since they have in fact made "gambling" a skill to them.

quote:

---

gambling isn't a sin, being irresponsible is because, once you are irresponsible about it, gambling takes over as your god and replaces Jesus---and ANYTHNG can do that---that is like saying video games, eating, reading, movies or even reading the Bible is a sin (some people actually get to a point of worshiping the book over the God and Savior whom it is about)----anything can be taken to an irresponsible degree.

---

I think that (and everyone else who contributed a similar statement) is a very good statement as well.

quote:

---

Because, I used to be a very SPIRITUAL person, but was not a christian.
I converted from atheist to a believer in spirits first and not from a christian conversion, but because I started seeing and talking to the very demons that I communicated with in the occult.
- if you see, hear and talk to them, then you become a "believer". -

Sorry to disagree, but some of the most "spiritual" people on the earth are not christians at all.

---

I think this is a very good point as well. I think balance is a key thing to keep in mind... I also think that rejection of anything in the physical world is horrible. I mean God created everything in the physical world, why reject God's creations completely? I also find it interesting when people get focused so much on the Spiritial and then deny logic, reason, rationale thought, and science... when in the end science and logic is an evaluation and study of all natural things... the rules of our existence and world, the rules God created. If anything this is a language of God (not the only language of God).

I would also suggest to not be sorry you disagree. It is perfectly ok to disagree, even with someone you respect.

------------------
Matthew Langley
Lead Documentation Engineer
GarageGames

I felt that this thread is messy and no one reads what others say but just say their opinion but then I realised that I did not do any better in this matter from the start of this thread.
So please forgive me, I try to pay more attention what is said in this thread and I don't probably want to say anything more about this, except study Bible, trust in Him.

And may God bless you.

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Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallBill:
Tread lightly, spade. Some of your examples would make Jesus a sinner.

---

Well there's difference between being with sinners who listen and sinners who just mock. Jesus was with the people who were willing to hear but we should not be with the mockers, who rather laugh and have no interest at all for the good news.

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Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanClinto:

The Bible (particularly in Proverbs) speaks well of men who are wealthy, but it criticizes the man who desires gain without work. The "get rich quick and easy" mentality -- it's a completely unbiblical mindset that scripture addresses clearly (sorry, I don't have references off the top of my head). I think that's one of the worst things about gambling, is that it caters to the "get rich quick" mindset.

---

Yep and even gaining money for the bad days is completely unbiblical mindset. The parable in Luke covers this topic well, it starts from Luke 12:16.
If it happens however that we do gain rich then: Psa 62:10 Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

Btw, let's not forget (like I just did) that scripture always states and explains everything clearly. It's just us who don't quite get it for reason or another and usually just because we are not interested to read what it says. (Pro 1:20 - read forward, Psa 12:6)

------------------
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

quote:

---

Originally posted by TallBill:

Jari, what is it like to be a Christian in Scandinavia? I cannot imagine that it is easier than here, in the USA.

---

All is well with me, no one is persecuating. But people mock god and not many seem to have any interest to hear the good news, maybe that's because life is generally good in Finland and stable.

------------------
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

Faith_Warrior - I kinda go along with the idea that Acts is the 5th Gospel

Acts was written by Luke, see it as Luke Volume 2 if you must!

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I am the signature

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

quote:

---

Originally posted by brentlatham:
This is the problem with Christians...they completely ruin posts with generalizations, biblical beliefs which aren't biblical and passages that aren't relevant to the post at all!

Faith_Warrior - I kinda go along with the idea that Acts is the 5th Gospel

Acts was written by Luke, see it as Luke Volume 2 if you must!

---

I tend to think of Isaiah as the fifth gospel.

------------------
Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

To clarify then:

TallBill thread is about one simple argument only -

Gambling is wrong because it goes against agapao love.

Xian_Lee I didn't really get his first five paragraphs but he thankfully finishes up with something a little more sane and mentions the verse about

being wise stewards of what God's given you.

zookey disagrees and says it is okay in moderation

ArchAngel agrees with zookey

Lazarus laughs at the fact that there are differences of opinion

zookey decides that there is a difference between differing opionions about gambling and differing opinions concerning denominations

Faith_Warrior brings the discussion back to poker and agrees with zookey and ArchAngel

jari decides its wrong because its not trusting in God...but he does raise an excellent discussion point?

Do you believe God affects all things or is there actually something called random?

(however that isn't to do with gambling so can't get excited about that now)

ArchAngel raises the one point which should end the discussion

gambling could be done for pure enjoyment alone. it is, by no means, exclusively a career choice.

TallBill enters a nonsensical thread

RA Games waffles a bit but he is actually agreeing with zookey and ArchAngel

zookey unfortunately decides that RA Games hasn't agreed with him

RA Games enters possibly the worst thread I've ever seen with all that angel waffle but not part of the subject so can't get into that either!

jari (well I laughed at it, didn't much understand it but there you go)

TallBill So now we are starting to get into lifestyle stuff and Collossions ch3. I realise that Jari is Scandinavian so the above post makes a little more sense!

(By the way - Set my heart to follow the One, the wonderful image of You. Amen. - please!)

TallBill Well he's now psyched up and feeling ultra spirtitual

David Lancaster brings it back to poker and raises an interesting point but doesn't really say enough.

Does that mean that you don't mind betting on a football game because you know one team is better than the other? or is it just betting on your own skill?

HanClinto Agrees with zookey, ArchAngel and RA Games by saying that gambling for fun is okay, gambling for employment is bad!

spade89 goes into auto and treads on dodgy ground

Lazarus doens't like what spade89 said that much

spade89 goes into defensive mode and waffles on

zookey disagrees with spade89's waffle and adds waffle of his own

RA Games disagrees with a section of spade89's post

zookey agrees with RA Games's waffle

Faith_Warrior again brings the discussion back to poker saying that its not just about money

Lazarus gives an insightful dit into his life!

LAVA decides to bring it back to spade89's unfortunate posting!

TallBill warns spade89 who by now probably doesn't need much warning!

RA Games keeps the off the subject topic going!

TallBill brings it back to poker and replies to Faith_Warrior's post and makes an interesting point

casting lots had nothing at all to do with gambling, but was a genuine effort to seek the guidance of the LORD.

(I would like to discuss this point because it definitely has mileage...how many times do you thing they cast the lots? Lets face it...it isn't exactly a great way of finding out what God wants at all! I think Gideons idea was much better!)

spade89 (I've decided that he is young and probably goes to a free-church)

Faith_Warrior replies to spade89's persuasive drivel

TallBill Replies to spade89's and Faith_Warrior's post and both wrongly in my view

Regarding spade89 - the difference is that whenever Jesus was at...well any place...something happened! When was the last time you went out to the pub and invited a stranger back home or to church?

Regarding Faith_Warrior - the Bible doesn't give numerous examples of people casting lots or gambling...and they cast lots for His clothing!

Faith_Warrior replies backing up prevoius posts

ArchAngel jumps on the wagon

bennythebear laughs at ArchAngel's post

Faith_Warrior refers to ArchAngel's joke about the fifth gospel

Lazarus continues the joke

LAVA refers to Faith_Warrior's post (hard to know if it was s joke or not)

Faith_Warrior replies but still not sure if he/she (can't tell) is joking

Matt Langley thankfully brings it back to poker and agrees with everyone who believes that gambling for fun is okay!

jari - I'm afraid to say but I think jari is part of the believe and recieve movement!

jari - Jari defends spade89 with almost the same point as mine!

jari - Another laughable post...just read the second paragraph!

jari - responds to a post by TallBill

jari - Me complaining about the fact that the thread has lost its thread!

Lazarus - rebuking me!

So the post was about - Gambling is wrong because it goes against agapao love.

My thoughts on this is what has? What activities in life really goes hand in hand with servant love? How often do you stop and help people who have broken down when driving by in your car?

What pleasures in life really go hand in hand with servant love? Tennis, Computer games, board games, films, reading?

To change the subject is gambling wrong?

If gambling is for fun Then

No, what is the difference in paying money for sweets, films, etc
Just need to be responsible

If gambling is for life Then

Yes it has to be wrong because of all the points mentioned above by everyone else!

Is that okay Lazarus?

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I am the signature

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

A couple of minor notes:

quote:

---

HanClinto Agrees with zookey, ArchAngel and RA Games by saying that gambling for fun is okay, gambling for employment is bad!

---

I wasn't exactly saying that -- perhaps I didn't express it properly.

Walking past a nickel slot machine and deciding to empty your pocket change into it -- is that for fun, or for employment? Most would say that they were just putting the money in for fun. It doesn't cost much, and it's exciting and thrilling to see if you could win some money. It's the same thing with a lottery ticket -- it's a fun and exciting way to spend a dollar.

I was addressing the point that I felt scripture spoke against having that kind of fun -- doing things hoping to get rich quick and easy. I think that everything that was said about agapao applied as well -- it was just a side note that hadn't been addressed yet in the thread.

On another point, if you can be brutally honest to others, I suppose I can return the favor. You said:

quote:

---

jari - I'm afraid to say but I think jari is part of the believe and recieve movement!

---

I see how, when just reading the first part of Jari's post, one might get the impression that he's part of the "believe and receive" movement:

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari:
The thing is that if you think that it's ok to gamble for the money in order to become rich then why not just pray for God to make you rich? Ask Jesus that question, read the Bible and notice how salomon among others were given much wealth...

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Jari:
...and how did they receive it? In prayer? No they were blessed and it was given to them without them even asking God to give them all that. It makes sense to me, because it's what Jesus promises that if we look for heaven first and ask for that everything else will be given (added) to us. So likewise salomon did we should not ask for money but ask wisdom judge right like Salomon did and God blessed Him with everything else as well.

---

quote:

---

Matthew 6:33 (NASB)
But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

---

All told brentlatham, thanks for the great summary read and the discussion. I don't recall your first post here on the forums -- thanks for jumping in with both feet! You are very welcome here, and you seem like a really interesting guy -- I look forward to more discussions with you in the future.

In Christ,
clint

[This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited April 03, 2007).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith_Warrior:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ArchAngel:
[b] Apparently you found the fifth gospel or what not.

---

[/B][/QUOTE]

LOL I know this is a tad off topic---but there is a lot of Gnostic gospels and they are such an extreme hoax---the Gnostic Gospel of Mary Magdaline has Jesus saying that women will have to change into men to enter heaven---the Gnostic Gospels basically disprove themselves and are an early example of something that still happens: people try to twist Jesus' arm and make him say what they want to believe as opposed to believe what he actually said---just like how Thomas Jefferson took the new testiment, cut out any passages where Jesus claimed to be the messiah, and used the rest of what Jesus said as his personal guide to democracy---yes the rest of what he said is very good but you usually can't pick and chose on that scale---if you think he was crazy for claiming to be the messiah, and those other speeches directly tie into his claim, how can they be viable for use?

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by zookey:
LOL I know this is a tad off topic---

---

Yes it is. And while I would love to respond to what you wrote, I'm going to ask, for the sake salvaging any integrity this already fragmented thread may have, that from this point on, if anyone wants to reply to what Zookey or anyone else is talking about specifically relating to gnostic gospels, that you please do so in a new thread.

Thankyou.

quote:

---

Spade,
Jesus attended parties and hung out with sinners. According to your examples He would necessarily be a sinner for having done so. That causes a problem. Since Jesus is most definitely NOT a sinner, the problem rests with your examples.

---

now either you don't know what you are talking about or you are lying.
show me where in the BIBLE it says JESUS attended parties??? JESUS hang out with sinners and i never said that was wrong the whole point of being a Christian is hanging out with sinners and witnessing the truth.
it is ok to gather with sinners but it is absolutley dead wrong to gather with them when they gather to sin.

if you take part in a gathering of sin then you are of sin if you take part in a gathering of light then you are of light.

if you stand with people when they intentionaly gather to sin then you are sinning.

it's not because sinners are bad and you should stay away from them i was a sinner as were you and every human i don't consider myself any superior than you a sinner or anyone else, the reason you shouldn't take part in a gathering for is because sin is your enemy and sin will rule and is worshipped at any place where there is a gathering for sinning.

quote:

---

Yet gambling isn’t always about money, it simply is a draw with an outcome, there can be larger bets than simply for money, lets not elevate money so highly. Do a topical search on the Disciple Matthias for an example.

---

if a person believes in GOD and has no other GODs than GOD he will not wroship either money himself or his desires.

i think gambling is a violation of the second commandment because you are worshipping either your money yourself or your lusts.

have you got any idea how horrible gambling can get have you any idea how it can ruin homes and families destroy lifes and even destroy a person??

have you ever gambled ??? why do you think gambling is illegal in so many states and nations??

do you really think GOD approves of that can you honestly call yourself a man of GOD and be part of such an action/institution??

it's true that i haven't myself found any scripture that specificaly says don't gamble.

but then again there is no scripture that says abortion is wrong nor is there any scripture that says war is wrong ....etc and the list goes on but we know that these things are sin because there is a law that says thou shall not kill. and ther is a scripture that says when a man hits you on your right chick give him your left.and love thy neighbor as thyself.

and moreover there is absolutley no need for a man of GOD to gamble because GOD will give his people all the need.

if you gamble it's not because you need to it's because you want to.if you have spare money give it to those who need don't waste it on gambling.

quote:

---

Yes.
For example, my brother wanted to bet his life(if he lost he'd be my slave, he said) that I couldn't win an arm-wrestling competition.

"Hey bro, go make my bed! And while you're at it, straighten up the closet."

Yeah, there are many things to gamble besides money.

---

quote:

---

Tread lightly, spade. Some of your examples would make Jesus a sinner

---

quote:

---

Apparently you found the fifth gospel or what not.
TallBill pointed out a very big point. Jesus would sit and dine with sinners.
Becareful you don't get caught up in your own morality.
The Pharisees did that and Jesus dealt sharply with them.

---

i'll finish this post later on i have to go for now............

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

quote:

---

show me where in the BIBLE it says JESUS attended parties???

---

I'm not taking sides in this argument but if memory serves me, Jesus's first miracle was at a wedding banquette where he turned jugs of water into wine. I haven't read any part of this thread other than the fancy summary and of course spade's post but i think in a general sense, the banquette can be thought of as a party.

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
http://Jestermax.googlepages.com/

Thanks for picking me up HanClinto and if I've got you pegged wrongly jari - which I probably have - I apologise!

Feel free to pick me up any time m8, I think I'm old enough to admit that I don't know everything and that guys on this forum do not mean to cause offence!

Spade89 - Think dinner with tax collectors and what the Pharisees said!

I think this thread has gone on long enough for me...see you on the other threads

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I am the signature

quote:

---

Originally posted by HanClinto:

I think that's what Jari's talking about -- not that we don't need to work, not that we don't need to pray, but ultimately that we understand that all wealth comes from the Lord, and we need to do our best and let God take care of the rest. Granted, it was a little bit tangential to the topic of gambling, but I didn't feel that he was advocating "believe and receive" (I assume you mean that term as it applies to the "health and wealth" prosperity "gospel").

---

Correct, thank you for clearing that out! And I am sorry for the confusion I might have caused. I was confused my self of the words "believe and receive" - never heard that before.

quote:

---

Originally posted by brentlatham:

Thanks for picking me up HanClinto and if I've got you pegged wrongly jari - which I probably have - I apologise!

---

I forgive you. Good that we have that sorted out.
Oh and please, again, forgive me too.

------------------
Psa 32:5 I acknowledged my sin unto thee, and mine iniquity have I not hid. I said, I will confess my transgressions unto the LORD; and thou forgavest the iniquity of my sin. Selah.

[VoHW] (Help needed) [Blog] - Truedisciple (mp3)

[This message has been edited by jari (edited April 03, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by jari (edited April 03, 2007).]

The believe and recieve, health and wealth teaching is a remarkably simple concept.

You take one verse out of the Bible that sounds good, discard the rest and then milk that one verse for all its worth!

Its a bit sad but unfortunately it does seem to work!

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I am the signature

quote:

---

Originally posted by brentlatham:
To clarify then:

---

quote:

---

I'm not taking sides in this argument but if memory serves me, Jesus's first miracle was at a wedding banquette where he turned jugs of water into wine. I haven't read any part of this thread other than the fancy summary and of course spade's post but i think in a general sense, the banquette can be thought of as a party.

---

quote:

---

Spade89 - Think dinner with tax collectors and what the Pharisees said!

---

the pharisees said to JESUS that he shouldn't gather with sinners i am not saying that i'dn't be a true follower of JESUS i said like that i gather with sinners every day i have i drug addict sitting next to me in my english class there is a gay man in my enviromental science class at hcc. and so on and so on if it was wrong to gather with sinners then i'd be living in a monastery.

i never said that be sure to read what i say and to understand it before you reply .

what i said was it's wrong to be part of a gathering for sin .when a person throws a party people come to drink,to lust after one another,to worship musicians and music to boast and to be proud. and taking part of that gathering is wrong.

sin is a transgression against GOD's laws ,if people gather to transgress
against laws then you shouldn't be part of that gathering this isn't some comlex thing i am saying don't stand with the darkness but in the darkness so that you may show the light those who are in the darkness.

have you read in the BIBLE where JESUS says the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak.

even if you have good intentions and you wish to spread the word in a sinful gathering such as night club,althought your spirit is willing your flesh is weak.

the only time you can do something like that is if you are annointed by GOD(given the strength)to do so.

now i don't want to be a hypocrite in anyway so here is a diclaimer:
when i mention some scripture or say some things like love thy neighbor as thyself it's not because i have fully fulfiled those commandments that i talk about i say thos because i know what i say is the truth and i don't want anybody to be decieved. i am trying to fullfill the laws i talk about though.
ra games:

quote:

---

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by spade89:
real Christians are spiritual

---

[/QUOTE]
i don't think you get what spiritual means it means you are seeking for the development and nourishment of your spirit rather than your flesh .

i didn't say that if a person is spiritual he is automaticaly a Christian
you can be as spiritual as you want but believing in JESUS and following his commandments is what makes you a Christian but you can't do that without being spriritual.

in other words to be a Christian you have to be spiritual but to be spiritual you don't have to be a Christian .

there are many palm readers and witch-craft practicers and many people who practice spirituality but they are on the wrong side, they are on the side of the darkness.

quote:

---

Question: Was the Buddhist a SPIRITUAL man?
Answer: Yeah, sure he was, but not of God.

---

quote:

---

I hope you realize that each person has their own unique convictions of their own, outside of clear-cut rules in the Bible. The Bible even says so, read 1 Corithians, chapter 8, I think the solution of the problem back then can apply to today's issues.

---

you are right that those issues can apply in these days the whole BIBLE applies to today . i use to really be against shrimp and mushrooms there was even a time where i was against all meat but after reading the scripture i became strong enough to overcome my weakness and i ate a shrimp and a mushroom and now i eat all sorts of meat.and the thing is i wasn't forced to eat those foods.

but that was a weakness not a sin if i was to rob a bank and you(or any Christian) joins me but doesn't steal that still doesn't make what he did right. a weakness does nothing but keep you from enjoying your freedom.
but a sin leads you to hell.

and let me explain what i said.

quote:

---

Originally posted by spade89:
just because someone says he is a Christian it doesn't mean he is.
94% of americans call themselves Christians but the u.s. is the third most unreached nation by the gospel.

---

you said that each person has his own unique convictions other than the clear cut rules of the BIBLE that is true that is why in the Bible it says

Matthew 7:14
But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it

you can't go on having your own unique convictions about the Bible all the rules in the Bible are clear cut as you said and there is no need to make your own convictions of them if you do then you might end up walking on the wrong road that leads to hell.

i have found that if a person tries to keep the two highest comandments
JESUS gave then he found the right road if you love your neighbor as yourself then you will not gamble if you love your GOD then you will not take part in a gathering for sinning.

again i don't want to be a hypocrite that is why i said try ,i believe that i love GOD and i try to love other people as myself(although i am not always succesful at both laws).

Christianity is not this religion about "do's" and "don't do's" Christianity is about love and freedom,if you are with that love and if you do believe in JESUS then you wouldn't even think of gambling.

brenthlam:

quote:

---

Regarding spade89 - the difference is that whenever Jesus was at...well any place...something happened! When was the last time you went out to the pub and invited a stranger back home or to church?

---

the whole point of being a Christian is to prevent people from sinning and therefore going to pubs and such places if i go to a pub then i'd be a hypocrite and if tell that person don't go to such places he is gonna say to my you went there yourself.

quote:

---

So the post was about - Gambling is wrong because it goes against agapao love.

My thoughts on this is what has? What activities in life really goes hand in hand with servant love? How often do you stop and help people who have broken down when driving by in your car?

---

quote:

---

What pleasures in life really go hand in hand with servant love? Tennis, Computer games, board games, films, reading?

---

it's important to put JESUS before anything.

quote:

---

To change the subject is gambling wrong?

If gambling is for fun Then

No, what is the difference in paying money for sweets, films, etc
Just need to be responsible

---

the thing is when you gamble and get a money you didn't work for that money you gain it because either the house or that person lost it ,in other words you are taking advantage of a persons loss. you are being merciless and you are not loving either that person or the owner of the gambling institute as yourself.

do i need to say more ???

btw, you guys post fast i don't have an internet connection at home i'm posting this from school so i can't reply to all of the things you say.

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

anyways, weather or not gambling is a sin isn't my call... but i dont think God is pleased with it (so that would make it a sin wouldnt it?)
Really, all it does it cause problems. The chances of you winning are so low, and then you're out of money and on the streets. You're wasting your hard earned money (or... maybe not hard earned) on a chance.

i've been taught all my life that gambling is wrong, and I'm going to stick with that.. even if its not, im not gonna waste my money on it...

personally, i'm going to pay my tithes and offerings to God and let Him bless me with the money and things I need. Because I am faithful to him and dont have to rely on luck.

------------------
~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.

quote:

---

so what jestermax i never said that was wrong but a wedding and a party are not exactly the same people don't gather to lust,drink,maybe take drugs or have sex or worship themselves or musicians. a wedding is a place where people gather to celebrate a union of two people which is not wrong a wedding and a party are not exactly the same.and don't think that the weddings in those days and now are the same.

quote:

---

now, I, myself, am a hater of parties, but that's cuz I hate people.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

So - is there anyone who is against casual gambling - like a poker game with penny stakes or something similar?

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Does the .30 cal have a cell broadband engine?
No...but it's multi-platform and has an easy to use point and click interface.

Spade89 - Listen m8 your enthusiasm does you credit but...slow down!

Agape love is a very sacrificial love and is at it's best on a personal basis. I don't think agape love comes into game playing at all.

When I sit down to play a game I am there to win and to win by the biggest margin possible! However, playing games does in no way ever come between Jesus and me. When you study in your lessons - I can't believe that you are a teacher at your school, so I'm going to continue with my presumption that you are a student - are you displaying agape love? are you thinking about Jesus...I hope not, I hope you are concentrating on what is being taught you but in no way - particularly by your posts - has it taken anything away from your walk with God!

I conclude therefore that saying gambling is wrong because it goes against agapao love doesn't really make much sense because that would rule out every pleasure!

STOP - don't start replying until you have seen my next paragraph.

You're argument is that gambling is wrong because in the act of sitting down on a gambling table you are sitting down with the whole intention of being merciless and taking advantage of other people.

You don't mind Christians going to pubs or nightclubs with friends who say lets go out tonight and have a drink and a bit of a dance.
You do mind Christians going to pubs or nightclubs with friends who say lets go out and get drunk, are you coming m8?

You see I do understand what you are saying but I think you are slightly too young to understand all the variables you are passing in.

CASE 1
A group of friends come together on a Friday night and they all chuck £5 into the middle of the table. They spend the next two hours eating doritos and discussing the weeks events. At the end of those two hours the friends stand up say their goodbyes and go home.

What was the evening about? was it simply about taking money from your friends? or was it actually about friends cementing their relationship by sharing each others highs and lows where the money is simply a means of keeping track on who is winning and bringing an end to the game!

The above case various people have posted that that would be okay. However, if one of your friends has a problem with gambling then it wouldn't be okay to play. It wouldn't be okay if one of your friends couldn't afford the £5.

CASE 2
You pick up your monthly wage, hand the food money to your wife and then go down to the local bookies and squandor it away on various bets.

The above case I think everyone would agree is not okay!

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the thing is when you gamble and get a money you didn't work for that money you gain it because either the house or that person lost it ,in other words you are taking advantage of a persons loss. you are being merciless and you are not loving either that person or the owner of the gambling institute as yourself.

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I really don't think you thought about this at all...you do understand that gambling isn't about winning, its about losing with grace . Gambling institutes are there to provide a service. They love people winning just as much as they do losing...for obvious reasons!

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I am the signature

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Spade, sounds like you didn't attend many parties.
worship themselves?
parties are just gatherings of people. some get wild, some aren't.
now, I, myself, am a hater of parties, but that's cuz I hate people.

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no i didn't attend many parties but even if JESUS was part of those parties he didn't sit down and orderd water. he rebuked them when they got drunk. if you are willing to do that then be sure you have the annointing by GOD.

and by the way you do know that hate is the same as murder don't you??

brenthalm slow down, i'll reply for you later i haven't read your entire post.

but let me reply for the last part.

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I really don't think you thought about this at all...you do understand that gambling isn't about winning, its about losing with grace . Gambling institutes are there to provide a service. They love people winning just as much as they do losing...for obvious reasons!

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and it's not about the gambling institutions it's about you the institutions are obviously merciless but you shouldn't be if you take part in a gambling activity then you are just as merciless as they are ,and you do know how many problems gambling causes right??

even many unbelivers know how bad gambling is i am really surprised that this question was asked on a Christian site.

and by the way becareful not to be legalistic , i want you to answer me one question are you arguing with me? if so i will stop replying to you.

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.

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no i didn't attend many parties but even if JESUS was part of those parties he didn't sit down and orderd water. he rebuked them when they got drunk. if you are willing to do that then be sure you have the annointing by GOD.

and by the way you do know that hate is the same as murder don't you??

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Jesus made wine for already drunk people (at the wedding at Canna).
You seem to have some pet Jesus sitting on your shoulder.
If I recall the gospels, Jesus spent more time forgiving and less time pointing fingers. in a matter of fact, the only people he pointed fingers toward were the religious figures caught up in a hollow morality.

and yes, I know how Jesus referred to hate as.
not murder, but murder in the heart.
and it was joke. I don't actually hate people in general.
I just want to rule them.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

the whole point of gambling is that you don't win, you are playing against the odds so you may win once or twice but over a period of time you will always lose!

I wasn't going to reply but after laughing at ArchAngels post I decided to.

By the way you don't need to reply because I am arguing with you honest!

I think I'm going to start another discussion because there was an excellent question raised earlier by someone....have to go back and look at my summary

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I am the signature

Spade, I'm sorry you're getting so worked up about this.

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Originally posted by spade89:
even many unbelivers know how bad gambling is i am really surprised that this question was asked on a Christian site.

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You're surprised that the question is being asked? I think that most everyone on here would agree that, on some level, gambling can be wrong (Arch isn't disagreeing with that point, like you seem to be implying). But what not everyone agrees about is when it's wrong, and when it's fine. Some people take the whole "gambling is wrong -- end of story" thing to different degrees (some too far, and some not enough).
1) Some people are okay gambling as long as it's for fun, and not for profit.
2) Some people are okay gambling, as long as it's not for anything of value (such as non-valued poker chips).
3) Some people say that even that is not okay, and you're not allowed to play games where any unit of value is traded or bartered or wagered.
4) Some people refuse to use playing cards with faces on them, even for purposes that aren't gambling related.
5) Some people refuse to play any games that have dice, or even allow dice to be kept in the house. Some concede that, if there is to be a game with an element of chance, something such as spinners are used, but never dice.
6) Some people don't enter into free advertisement-based sweepstakes, as they consider that to be a form of gambling, and therefore sin.

I'm not saying that any of these are right or wrong -- I know various people who toe these different lines who I consider to be Christians. Being a Christian is about loving and trusting in Christ -- not as specifically about how people interpret the Bible (though that is certainly related). I just bring these up to show you how much variance there is in the gray areas, even within the Christian community.

I just don't want to see anyone get too bent out of shape on this, Spade, since your posts are quite vehement and you're getting somewhat drastic.

Arch, if Spade doesn't understand your off-colored comments as sarcasm (such as the one about hating people), then you might want to leave them out in your postings to him.

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Originally posted by spade89:
i want you to answer me one question are you arguing with me? if so i will stop replying to you.

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Originally posted by spade89:
no i didn't attend many parties but even if JESUS was part of those parties he didn't sit down and orderd water.

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I just bring this up to not argue this minor issue, but just to give you an example of how you're saying things above and beyond what the Bible does. I just want us to keep level heads about this all, be reasonable, be respectful, and give each other the benefit of the doubt.

Did Jesus go to the equivalent of bump-and-grind lust-fests or raves where X is passed like candy? No -- of course not. There certainly were parties like that back in the day, and I agree -- I don't read of Jesus going to parties like that. But Jesus certainly did go to more parties than just to what we would think of as "church sponsored events", which raised eyebrows in the legalistic community, and those are the parties that Arch and others are talking about.

I dunno' if that helped at all, but I thought I'd give it a shot.

Keep looking up,
clint

[This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited April 04, 2007).]

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Did Jesus go to the equivalent of bump-and-grind lust-fests or raves where X is passed like candy? No -- of course not. There certainly were parties like that back in the day, and I agree -- I don't read of Jesus going to parties like that. But Jesus certainly did go to more parties than just to what we would think of as "church sponsored events", which raised eyebrows in the legalistic community, and those are the parties that Arch and others are talking about.

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i don't think anyone is getting my point you shouldn't be part of a gathering whose pupose is to sin.

the purpose of a wedding was not to sin. it's not the people that are wrong it's the sin.

i have read the scripture that you gave link to and JESUS drank but i don't believe he drunk to the extent of being overly drunk.
it's more than obvious that JESUS,his disciples and the apostle paul all drunk wine but that doesn't mean they were drunkards, they had their limits you the saying the spirit is willing but the flesh is weak don't you?

modern drinking is a package of sin first you drink then you get drunk then you don't even know what you will do you commit adultery get into a fight you name it you can do just about any sin if you get drunk.

being drunk is the problem not the drink by itself.

and one of the reasons whey going to parties and clubs is wrong is unless GOD strengthens you it's nearly impossible to control yourself.

and the other reason is back in the days of JESUS you couldn't exactly throw a strip party could you? if you did you would probably get stonned.
or something like that.

can anyone honestly call himself a Christian and go to a party and i don't mean like a dinner party or a wedding or a birthday party i mean like the kind of party where drugs are passed out like food and women get raped and people get shot. or even a bar. where people gather just to get themselves drunk. not just drink but get drunk.the very act of being in that house by itself doesn't make it wrong but the act of being part of that gathering makes it wrong if you were there to stand up against it then it would make it right .

look people i've heard of people losing theri friends and best friends to things like this some people think it's ok to go to a party as long as you don't drink and they go to a party then as you are saying they would say even JESUS drunk a little why shouldn't i then they start drinking then after a while they become alchol addicts then you would see them commiting adultery ,taking drugs,and all sorts of sin. if the purpose of a party is to sin then you are falling into a trap.

i don't mean to be legalistic here but many people fall into traps of gambling and partying.

if you have the amount of self control JESUS had then go ahead get into a party but if you do make sure you preach the gospel or something don't just sit there and let the people go to hell.

arch :
i apologize for that misunderstanding .

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John 14:6

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.