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You are kidding arent you ? – CPUFreak91

CPUFreak91

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Posts: 2337
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Registered: 02-01-2005
Found this article in Linux Today which redirects to ZDnet

Edit: The offending comment that I quote below is located at: http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=51

quote:
You are kidding arent you ?
Are you saying that this linux can run on a computer without windows underneath it, at all ? As in, without a boot disk, without any drivers, and without any services ?

That sounds preposterous to me.

If it were true (and I doubt it), then companies would be selling computers without a windows. This clearly is not happening, so there must be some error in your calculations. I hope you realise that windows is more than just Office ? Its a whole system that runs the computer from start to finish, and that is a very difficult thing to acheive. A lot of people dont realise this.

Microsoft just spent $9 billion and many years to create Vista, so it does not sound reasonable that some new alternative could just snap into existence overnight like that. It would take billions of dollars and a massive effort to achieve. IBM tried, and spent a huge amount of money developing OS/2 but could never keep up with Windows. Apple tried to create their own system for years, but finally gave up recently and moved to Intel and Microsoft.

Its just not possible that a freeware like the Linux could be extended to the point where it runs the entire computer fron start to finish, without using some of the more critical parts of windows. Not possible.

I think you need to re-examine your assumptions.


ROTFL almost literally. This guy sounds like he knows a lot, but doesn't have a basic understanding of operating systems. He also doesn't know anything about UNIX's history if he even knows what UNIX is.

"[Windows] is a whole system that runs the computer from start to finish". Wake up little spider, no you're not dead. *All* operating systems run the computer from start to finish.

This is just too funny. Unfortunately I have no idea what I'd do if I was sent an email like this. My explanations on how OSes work would be useless.

The old saying is true: You can't teach an old dog new tricks.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited March 20, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited March 21, 2007).]

jestermax

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Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
double post

[This message has been edited by jestermax (edited March 20, 2007).]

jestermax

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Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
ohhhh my.... i couldn't believe that when i read it....

btw, what do you mean he sounds like he knows a lot??? was that sarcasm?

he was even under the impression that OSX doesn't exist

CPUFreak91

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Posts: 2337
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Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by jestermax:
btw, what do you mean he sounds like he knows a lot??? was that sarcasm?


Yes. I was being sarcastic.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
I love it when people write letters like that, using a jerk-off tone, and they try to sound intelligent and above everyone else when they are saying something that isn't true---LOL it is sad and weird all at the same time!! LMAOROTFL I bet M$ paid him for the endorsement (probably supplied the 'information' too!)!

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Mene-Mene

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Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
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"I think you need to re-examine your assumptions." To you too. LOL. Agreed, Linux isn't as easy to setup for the average non-computer person. But yes, its a OS from Start to Finish. OS's from what I've heard aren't actually extremely hard to make, its the extras that make it difficult, like running programs for example. Maybe the above is wrong. but that's what I've heard. But come on! Linux requireing Windows? Cough... Cough... Its like saying that Lego Star Wars requires Holo 2. Its preposturous. And he didn't even know that OS X exists. I'm sorry, but if you think you're smart enough to post a article about this, then download Linux, and find out for yourself.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
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I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

jestermax

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From: Ontario, Canada
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actually, to from knowledge the bulk of an OS is the drivers (a basic OS ok? :P).
which reminds me of my plans to build a gaming console and thus an OS....
SSquared

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From: Pacific Northwest
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I did not go to the link, but perhaps the letter itself is sarcastic. In any case, it is pretty funny.

[This message has been edited by ssquared (edited March 20, 2007).]

Calin

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Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
I couldn't find any of what you quoted in the ZDnet article.

However the attitude you're talking about isn't out of ordinary. OS development and research use to be at the very edge of technology. Microsoft brought a standard at a time when every software and hardware manufacturer was trying to impose it's own rules. Many put under question the MS contribution by pointing features that this or that OS had long before Windows. The windows contribution was to bring together gracefully existing concepts rather than inventing them.

The OS era is over however. Microsoft is about to follow IBM's trails. It has grown a standard that is now mature and ready to be used as inheritance by everyone else in the OS business. Microsoft itself will slowly fade away as its mission is coming to an end. It will stay for a long time around but it will be a 'white dwarf'(dying star)
Vista was it's last major 'outbreak'. Microsoft has run out of tricks and had to push to extremes the old ones to make Vista appealing to customers. Take their approach on security. What whey did resembles a man that makes a nuclear-silo-like house to protect himself from thefts. That's bad economics, he should rely on the state to prosecute and punish the criminals rather than building an unbreakable house. A regular house has enough defense if it makes the strangers understand that they are not permitted to enter.

Anyways I just wanted to 'give to Caesar what is Caesar’s' =]

zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
that was actually a well written look at it calin--actually (going to get harpooned for this but oh well) that is why I want a Imac so bad---I don't feel a strong urge to use Windows anymore (but, you can use the Boot Camp program to install XP on a partition of the mac---that way you have both and you just hold the alt key during start up--then it asks you which OS you want to boot and it only boots that one---so literally best of both worlds!)---I think MicroSoft could have survived a transitionary period like this but they needed to leave the whole 'we will make money because we are M$' mentality behind--just expecting consumers to buy your product because 'they don't have any other options' doesn't work as well anymore and they are turning more people off unfortunately.

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ArchAngel

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From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
here is his post:
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579806&start=51

and his original one:
http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=579073&start=51


honestly, he seems too confident about his stupidity for me to just assume he's an idiot. he has to be trolling or something.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

TallBill

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Posts: 298
From: St. Louis, MO
Registered: 11-22-2002
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
I think MicroSoft could have survived a transitionary period like this but they needed to leave the whole 'we will make money because we are M$' mentality behind--just expecting consumers to buy your product because 'they don't have any other options' doesn't work as well anymore and they are turning more people off unfortunately.

Given MicroSoft's history of business practice, is it really all that unfortunate? If one company must dominate in the OS field, I'd much rather it be a righteous one—which leaves MicroSoft out of it. Stomping on and bullying competition is not something that Christians should enjoy being under the thumb of (this is christiancoders.com, after all).

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Never Forget to Pray!

"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High."
Charles Haddon Spurgeon, from the pamphlet, "Effective Prayer"

D-SIPL

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Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
It's sad that he assumes that just because billions haven't been spent on Linux/BSD that this in some way diminishes it's use and functionality. I was only chatting yesterday about the whole free software philosiphy. It's not about money, it's about being extremely passionate about something to a point that money money offers no incentives what-so-ever.

People like him aren't entitled to an opinion.

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Calin

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From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by TallBill:
If one company must dominate in the OS field, I'd much rather it be a righteous one—which leaves MicroSoft out of it.

That company would be in need of an iron fist. Keeping and pushing a company in a high position implies swift action on those who try to gain unjustified profits from your work. You can't be 'in power' and nice to everyone. As I mentioned MS came on stage when pretty much every hardware manufacturer was trying to impose his own standard. There had to be someone to make the cut. I will agree though the distinction between justified and unjustified profit isn't always straight forward.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited March 21, 2007).]

Calin

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Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
... it's about being extremely passionate about something to a point that money money offers no incentives what-so-ever.

I think it's about making products that bring a real benefit to those that buy them and about playing fare with your competitors.

jestermax

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Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
I'm with Calin on that one. It could've been another company and they could have made similar or even flat out different choices, but they'd still be hated for imposing on the computing community. For all the complaints about M$ and all of that, i think they're a good thing in the end. They provide a somewhat stable environment (no jokes here :P) and it's easy to use. If there was only linux and osx (i know there are others but for simplicity let me be) then that would be a bit of a gap. I consider windows to be the space in between "artistic" and "uber l33t".
Anyways, as for the profits, it's not like he has his own personal base set up in Antarctica where no one can reach him. Bill Gates donates a ton of money to charities and his inheritance doesn't even go fully to his own kids. They only get a fraction of the family money.
Anyways, i've been going on about it for a while so i'll stop . I could be wrong at any point here so please don't ATTACK me for it; be nice.

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D-SIPL

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Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by Calin:
I think it's about making products that bring a real benefit to those that buy them and about playing fare with your competitors.


I agree, but that all comes from being passionate about it. If your not passionate, you have no real motivation to make something thats great and then give it away for free.

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Calin

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From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Calin:
[b] I think it's about making products that bring a real benefit to those that buy them and about playing fare with your competitors.


I agree, but that all comes from being passionate about it. If your not passionate, you have no real motivation to make something thats great and then give it away for free.
[/B][/QUOTE]

Open source never was and never will be the main drive behind software development. I don't think it's 'hell-ish' to ask money for software. Some one has to play the electricity your computer uses when you program. Donations might solve it for you but you can't expect the entire industry to live on donations.
I'm not saying money should be your main and sole motivation in developing software, as Christians we now that there are Higher Motivations, however I don't think software manufacturing should be governed by other laws than those used in traditional industries.

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gameplay is the right combination between performance and features.

CPUFreak91

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quote:
Originally posted by Calin:
I couldn't find any of what you quoted in the ZDnet article.


http://talkback.zdnet.com/5208-12355-0.html?forumID=1&threadID=31199&messageID=5 79806&start=51

Sorry. I had the article and not the comment's url.


quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
It's not about money, it's about being extremely passionate about something to a point that money money offers no incentives what-so-ever.


I've written about that: http://geeksdeguate.bluegillstudios.com/blog/?p=5

quote:

People like him aren't entitled to an opinion.


Agreed.

quote:
Originally posted by Calin:
Open source never was and never will be the main drive behind software development. I don't think it's 'hell-ish' to ask money for software. Some one has to play the electricity your computer uses when you program. Donations might solve it for you but you can't expect the entire industry to live on donations.

Don't sell software then, sell services. Make sacrifices. Make your name known on the web so that companies notice your talents and hire you for your creativity not for your code. Several open source projects have been bought by companies. Several companies pay coders (like Linux Torvalds) to work on their own open source projects. And if you don't have a popular oss project, a company may pay you to work on a different one anyway.

I don't think it's about owning the code any more (to make money). I think it's about inventing and selling product and ideas.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited March 21, 2007).]

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Double post. Sorry.

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited March 21, 2007).]

Calin

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Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:

I don't think it's about owning the code any more (to make money). I think it's about inventing and selling product and ideas.


Agreed. I don't think though companies should be forced to make their code open source (and apply comments on it =]). However I do think reverse engineering shouldn't be a crime. Like you're not prosecuted if you split a Toyota/Ford/Mercedes car engine and take a look inside.

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gameplay is the right combination between performance and features.

kenman

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Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Maybe we should all get together and build an OS! Well make it update itself every three days and charge a rediculously large amount of money on it.

As far as this guy goes, what planet is he from, Redmond (which is not a planet). I remember the days of the OS being DOS. How many remember machine code.

jestermax

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From: Ontario, Canada
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Was that OS comment a joke? i actually want to build an OS, lol

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Calin

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Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by jestermax:
Was that OS comment a joke? i actually want to build an OS, lol


Hopefully you will have 1% complete by the time you reach 60.

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gameplay is the right combination between performance and features.

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
It can't be that bad:P most of it is drivers and fancy stuff anyways. all i want to do is make an OS for a game console idea i'm working on. Basically no better than atari was. If i only have to support one hardware model then i don't have to make drivers for anything other than that.

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ArchAngel

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From: SV, CA, USA
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nahh, it's not that hard.
my dad made an OS back in college. (which his professor stole... anyhow)

gonna be taking a class on OS programming not long.


it all depends, however, how complex you want to make it.

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"The generation of random numbers is too important to leave to chance."
Soterion Studios

jestermax

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Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
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i've taken an OS course but it wasn't deep enough for implementation sadly
(college level course). hopefully when i go back to school (university) i'll get some hands on stuff like that

I'm not looking for anything super, like fancy GUIs and mouse support. just need a game pad and a driver for a floppy drive.

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Visit my portfolio (and check out my projects):
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zookey

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Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
quote:
Originally posted by TallBill:
Given MicroSoft's history of business practice, is it really all that unfortunate? If one company must dominate in the OS field, I'd much rather it be a righteous one—which leaves MicroSoft out of it. Stomping on and bullying competition is not something that Christians should enjoy being under the thumb of (this is [b]christiancoders.com, after all).

[/B]


I actually have to agree with you--and actually, IMO, that moves across the board to consoles too---the 360 has some decent games (sorry, I don't see what is so cool about Gears of War---my bro played it through several times and it wasn't bad, but not nearly what the hype said) but I have to say--after playing all--that PS3 is way better and it seems that MS pressures console owners into the ideal of 'if you own a 360 you have to own it alone and be loyal to us, otherwise you are a little wussy fanboy who is being used by Sony/Nintendo/Whomever'----where as I don't see other companies throwing that kind of dirt around---it frustrates me royally because I play all games but it seems like MS is trying to use peer pressure and ignorance as their means of making money as opposed to building a truly superior or at least truly awesome product---which of course is what market competition is supposed to engineer for us in the end.

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D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
For my final year project we get to write a basic kernel in C. I doubt i will get to implement a filesystem or anything, but it will be fun all the same. One of my lecturers finished a kernel in modular-2 recently... very sad.

With regards to open source, there are plenty of ways to make money from it. Who says you cant sell your code either? Just choose the right license. BSD is worth a look.

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Lava
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Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
edit (I didn't notice some of the other posts that said pretty much what I was saying, lol)

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited March 21, 2007).]

Lazarus

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Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
nahh, it's not that hard.
my dad made an OS back in college. (which his professor stole... anyhow)

That's terrible! What was the OS called, btw?

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
LOL this is a modification of a joke someone on CCN used to have as their sig

Want to know something interesting? Spin a Microsoft CD backwards and demons will talk with you.

Want to know something Satanic? Spin it forwards and it installs Windows.

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CPUFreak91

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Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
Want to know something interesting? Spin a Microsoft CD backwards and demons will talk with you.

Want to know something Satanic? Spin it forwards and it installs Windows.


Yeah. I've heard a few versions of that joke. They're good . Someone should come up with one for OSX and Linux.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
quote:
Originally posted by zookey:
LOL this is a modification of a joke someone on CCN used to have as their sig

Want to know something interesting? Spin a Microsoft CD backwards and demons will talk with you.

Want to know something Satanic? Spin it forwards and it installs Windows.


That's as silly as saying that all microsoft activatoin keys are based on xor 1010011010

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:
Someone should come up with one for OSX and Linux.


I agree, as long as it's not Pro OSX or Linux, to be fair.

Hmmm...what are some good, well-known sterotypes of OSX or Linux?

CPUFreak91

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Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by LAVA:
I agree, as long as it's not Pro OSX or Linux, to be fair.

Hmmm...what are some good, well-known sterotypes of OSX or Linux?


Stability, Prettiness, Eunuchs, Pengiuns, Apples, Servers.... does that give you a few ideas?

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:
Stability, Prettiness, Eunuchs, Pengiuns, Apples, Servers.... does that give you a few ideas?


I meant negative ones, unless when you said to make a joke about Apple and Linux it was to be pro of either of those, haha.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by LAVA:
I meant negative ones,


I ment, find something negative in those steryoptipical categories.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Well, did you hear about the Adam and Eve virus a while back? Really haunted Imacs, word on the street has that it really takes a byte out of your Apple. (got that off of a joke site)

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[This message has been edited by zookey (edited March 21, 2007).]

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
Haha, I stumbled upon this while in the process of making a CCN thread.

Bill Gates in Vietnam:

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited March 22, 2007).]

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
LMAO no lie dude------bill gates is NOT teh roxor!!!!! *shoots self for using stupid internet slang, then forgives self realizing that it was in the process of slamming bill gates, exploits glitch in the matrix to go back before time of shooting and life goes on...exe*

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