General Discussions

Vista. – bwoogie

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
So, does anyone here have vista yet? i <u>would like</u> to pick it up some time soon.. but at the same time i <u>would like</u> to buy a new 22" widescreen monitor with all the hook ups (vga, dvi, component, composite, and svideo - everything but a tv tuner) - i would have put my tax return towards that - if i was going to get a return . but also, i <u><b>need</b></u> to buy a car... so it's really tough saving money for me.. especially when you own a wii.

i downloaded the beta and it was running pretty nice. the only thing i didnt like is that i couldnt install my sound drivers off the original cd. so i had to download the vista drivers off the creative site, which worked, but i like the tools that are included with the original. so thats the only thing i'm "worried" about.

ok, so anyways. anyone have vista yet?

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

[This message has been edited by bwoogie (edited February 05, 2007).]

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
Well, be careful if you are going to get a new monitor and upgrade to Vista. A great deal of hardware combinations aren't "pirate proof" enough for Vista to allow full resolution commercial HD content to be displayed on your monitor. In other words, if you get a blue-ray drive or subscribe to HD content online, Vista may "downgrade" the quality to something closer to regular DVD resolution during playback. Assuming you do have the right hardware, while watching Lord of the Rings in HD, you decide to make a sweet screen capture of the action for your desktop background. Sorry, Vista doesn't allow screen captures of HD content, at all.

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bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
oh i didnt know that.... well, i wouldnt be getting both at the same time.... i would much rather have the monitor before vista.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
I had one of the betas, of course it expired by now. Like you, my sound card didn't work. Unlike you, I was unable to fix it. New drivers... nope, didn't work.

On that note, neither did 89% of my games.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Things to remember when upgrading to Vista:

Use the upgrade compatability wizard available at microsoft site. It will tell you what version is best suited for you. If there are hardware compatability issues it will let you know. When I ran it I found out that my scanner that I just bought will not run. My original config wouldn't run the beta's well, but will run the final. Run the utility with all of your hardware attached and see what vista does.

Secondly, remember you will need a rediculous amount of memory. I was just at a convention where the speaker running vista had 6GB of memory on his laptop. Off the record, this gentleman stated don't run less than 2GB.

Make sure you have plenty of HD space available also, usually >40GB will improve your performance score. I have no idea why, but it does

Hope this has been helpful

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
virtual memory most likely. it'll probably use half your HD as a swap partition, lol. yeah, my dad was looking for a laptop so i told him to get a cheaper laptop with XP instead. he just wants to do some simple autoCAD drawing editing anyways, and he doesn't need a fancy gui (Vista) to do it. although solitare might look better...
Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
Vista is without a doubt technologically innovative and a nice thing to have however it's not as indispensable as previous Windows versions used to be. Back in the Windows 95 days people use to buy Windows because it was pretty much the only OS that would run the latest games and programs, and it wasn't too expensive on top of that. With Vista things are different. I think many people will stick to XP or switch to other operating systems.
Anyways I don't see any rush for switching to Vista now.

[This message has been edited by Calin (edited February 06, 2007).]

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
i resisted XP as much as i could back in the day; win2k was a stable enough (as far as i knew at the time ) environment. maybe this is the same deal with XP vs vista? maybe in a few years it'll be the norm.... come to think of it.... i still have a box in my room with win2k on it, lol.
CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by jestermax:
i still have a box in my room with win2k on it, lol.


I run an emulated version of Windows 98SE when I want to play MS-DOS games.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
that reminds me:
http://www.the-underdogs.info/
amazing site for free, older games. just remember to only download one at a time or they'll ban you.
HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:
I run an emulated version of Windows 98SE when I want to play MS-DOS games.

Really? I would have figured you on running DosBox for that. It's what Jennifer and I use to play old DOS games, and it works on Windows, Mac and Linux (and it loads really quickly too).

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
NVM Double post

[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited February 09, 2007).]

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by HanClinto:
Really? I would have figured you on running DosBox for that. It's what Jennifer and I use to play old DOS games, and it works on Windows, Mac and Linux (and it loads really quickly too).

Ah, so that's the name. Thanks. I'll download it right away

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
gonna get it. since I'm a CS major at my college...

.. it's free. booyakasha.

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Realm Master: "I'm cockasian"
Soterion Studios

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005

I try not to be like that, but I think I'm the suspenders guy.

Kudos to the Dosbox fans, it's the bomb.

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|steveth45|
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[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited February 06, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by steveth45 (edited February 06, 2007).]

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Pray for me as I embark into the unknown

That is called - Windows Vista Installation

I am just starting an install right now. Im glad I have 2 computers that I can use so I wont have to wait for installation to see what happens. SO far no sparks

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Gasp. The horrors! Not really. Hope you brought your fat, and frying oil. Or rather, hope all goes well with the installation.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
quote:
Originally posted by steveth45:

I try not to be like that, but I think I'm the suspenders guy.

Kudos to the Dosbox fans, it's the bomb.


Lol. I remember reading that one in the "Holy Wars" Dilbert book. Funny stuff.

The guy fails to mention that his Unix workstation probably cost a couple thousand(back then.)

It'll probably be pretty painless, kenman. It was for me.
On the other hand, if the hard drive starts smoking, I suggest grabbing a fire extinguisher and jumping out the window.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Actually completed installation allready, just downloading Soundblaster drivers, Didnt automatically get those, found the radeon card drivers though

Quite quick and painless. I have not started any fires yet!

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
lol the Dilbert is funny. But imo, they seem to be funnier when non-OS-specific humor is at play.

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Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
I hate to double post, but --

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited February 09, 2007).]

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
Amen! lol, been there done that.
kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Vista installation post-mortem

Use the on-line check program to see which version is best for you
sets up dual boot systems by it self (I think a first for any windows version) - quite painless
Still not 100% support for all hardware. I had to manually download soundblaster audigy drivers - I thought that would be a pretty common sound card.
From start to first clean boot up (i.e. nothing else to do, no driver to install) 21 minutes. I can remember spening 45-60 minutes installing 98.

samw3

Member

Posts: 542
From: Toccoa, GA, USA
Registered: 08-15-2006

kenman of janesville, You have successfully installed Micro$oft Vista

You shall now be called "nine of fourteen".

You have been assimilated. Welcome to the collective.

* vista startup sound *

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Sam Washburn

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Number 9, I should be at least number 11

[This message has been edited by kenman (edited February 09, 2007).]

Lava
Member

Posts: 1905
From:
Registered: 01-26-2005
WOOT! Is dere sum Trekkies in da houz?

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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by samw3:

kenman of janesville, You have successfully installed Micro$oft Vista

You shall now be called "nine of fourteen".

You have been assimilated. Welcome to the collective.

* vista startup sound *


Hahaha!! How apropriate

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Glad to hear about the smooth install. Let us know how things continue to go. It's a good thing you have ATI because NVidia is now scrambling trying to resolve driver issues with Vista. That was from an article on Infoworld or InformationWeek. I can't remember where I read it.

And I honestly want to know your experience. I am a Windows person, so am interested in your findings. Not that I have anything against Linux. It's just there are too many Windows-only apps I use, plus it's good for me to know Vista so I can then help others get their systems up and running. But Steve is sure giving me many reasons to at least create a dual boot system and use Linux when I can.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Funny SSquared, part of my next project is to delete my vista Beta partition and install Linux. There really is a place in the world for both. I will certainly keep you up to date. This weekend I will be trying to install my application creators that I use, Dreamweaver, VS2005, photoshop etc.
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
awesome, kenman. i think what i am going to do is, sell my xbox360 and my gamecube and use that money towards my widescreen monitor. then i will scrape up some extra coinage for vista.
i would also like to install linux on a partition. i tried on my christmas break to get linux (fedora) and xp to dual boot, but didnt have any success with lilo or xp. windows wanted to hog the MBR of course.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Memory on vista- Real life experiance. I have 2GB on the board. Not once have I had any more the 4MB free. Easily beats XP in program loading speed as far as I can tell. Maybe that memory has recent programs in cache? Only Bill knows!
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
yeah i should prolly upgrade my ram also. i only have 1gb.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
awesome, kenman. i think what i am going to do is, sell my xbox360 and my gamecube and use that money towards my widescreen monitor. then i will scrape up some extra coinage for vista.
i would also like to install linux on a partition. i tried on my christmas break to get linux (fedora) and xp to dual boot, but didnt have any success with lilo or xp. windows wanted to hog the MBR of course.

I've never had a problem with XP and Linux. The easiest way to do it is install Windows first (because it doesn't play nice), then install Linux second. Lilo or grub should both work perfectly fine booting Windows.

If you do it the other way around, Windows will overwrite the MBR... and not give you the option of installing or configuring a boot loader, as if you'd ever need one, right? Then you have to go back to your Linux disks, to reinstall the boot loader. Folks like me have been dual booting Linux since the 90's, and it goes to show you which operating system respects you and your choices: Linux.

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bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
i will probably try again once i get vista. i dont feel like start from scratch and then having to do that again in a few weeks or less... or more.... hmm...

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
21 minutes to install Vista? In about an hour I can download Kubuntu Linux. In about 10 minutes I can burn it to a cd and install it :\

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Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
i've been using vista for some time now, and like the thought behind some of the things under the hood,

the extra security thing has caused some headaches with apps..

also as an app dev, its been causing me grief on one thing.. narrowed it down mostly

basically in my app, when you hover on a word, mousehover event is fired, (so i can do some cool tooltip etc).. however with this combination of a particular third party set of controls as a container (i.e a tabcontrol, and another third party component (that uses resetmouseeventargs() so that hover can be used more than once inside a control (a very common technique).. the onmousehover event doesn't fire under vista when using the aero theme (it works fine on 2k, XP and VISTA on classic theme, but with aero, it just doesn't hover....
its driving me balmy..

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I think its funny that microsoft would get so much credit for coming up with all kinds of new stuff in vista. Most of the stuff in vista has been on Mac for years. The rest has been on windows for years. So what exactly is new?

Anyone who realy thinks vista is the most advanced operating system needs to look into it a bit more. I may be wrong, but is there a desktop manager like Beryl (or anything like it) for anything other than Linux? Not that I know of..

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Valkyri

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Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Personally, I plan to wait on Vista for a few years and stick with Kubuntu and then move on to Debian or OpenSuse. Haven't decided which. I tried installing Compiz only to find out that I need the new 7.1 version of the X server which has AIGLX support. I have only the 7.0. Which is better: Debian or OpenSuse? Just in general, out of curiosity.

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I havent used either, but I plan on trying Debian next. (Mainly because its what Linux 101 is based from)
SuSE is popular too though..

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[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 10, 2007).]

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
if you wait too long the next version of windows will be out lol

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
if you wait too long the next version of windows will be out lol



Yeah. It will be called Windows Future and it's minimal system requirements are:
8GB Ram
2.0 Ghz Quad Core Processor
Dual SLI Video Card with 1GB VRAM
200GB Disk Space
S-HD DVD drive (Super HD DVD drives have a capacity of 200GB)

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
That won't bother me, I've not had the best of windows experiences Besides with Linux you have so much more power!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
And with Vista running embedded Linux you have so much more. . . well maybe not power, but interesting. Here's a screeny of vista running DSL embedded. Yes that's this page running on Linux/Firefox/wrapped in Vista. (you got your chocolate in my peanut butter!)

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
No, youve got that backwards.. its peanut butter in chocolate, but.. thats.. not chocolate..

Isnt that a bit wasteful of memory? Ive heard of doing that, but it just seems tough to do on anything less than a supercomputer..

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 10, 2007).]

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Wastefull of memory, not really - pulls 198MB from system resources to start. I have 2GB on the board and 1GB readyboost. 198 is nothing compared to anything else running
goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
heh.. at 60mb I get nervous.. at 80mb its probabaly a game, and I need to close anything I can to keep it running smoothly enough to almost play..

Ah the joys of 512 =P

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Laughs histerically. Hey that's thats what I got! Course, it don't help that I'm running 7 servers on the same machine!

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by goop2:
heh.. at 60mb I get nervous.. at 80mb its probabaly a game, and I need to close anything I can to keep it running smoothly enough to almost play..

Ah the joys of 512 =P



Hehehehe. I used to live like that. Now I *give* 512MB to my Virtual Machines

Ah the joys of 1GB 333Mhz RAM.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'm running xp on p3 933, and 384mb of ram. i don't plan on getting vista unless i absolutely have to, since i'll be going th asp.net/vb or c# track, i'll eventually have to. but i'm thinking for personal use i'll be going with xubuntu, i'll just have to find some free time to get comfy with the linux file system, and everything else. i don't see why vista uses so many resources, but their requirements are pretty much what new computers are coming out with, even low end ones.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Maybe so, but those new computers are better so that you can have a better experience, not so that you can have a new operating system. windows vista is just more than its worth. You eat up far less (while doing more) with alternative systems. I dont understand why people still put up with windows..

My first experience with Xubuntu left me disappointed. But then again, thinking about it, its still more flexible than windows.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
Not until SP1 for me.
bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'm with mack on that one, i would wait till the big bugs/holes get found and fixed if you want vista. the main reason i'm sticking with windows is it's where the money's at, at least around here. windows network admin skills, visual studio development skills, that's pretty much all that's desired around here. off-topic, but has anyone seen "entry-level" jobs that required like 3 years experience??? doens't that defeat the purpose???

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
off-topic, but has anyone seen "entry-level" jobs that required like 3 years experience??? doens't that defeat the purpose???

Yes, it's like that in almost every field. Sometimes, even a college degree isn't enough. That's why internships are important. It's all about experience. Find a place you'd like to work and see if you can get a 3 or 6 month internship. Internships range in pay from nothing to minimum wage to decent salary, but expect something in the lower end for most fields.

It's true, if you want a programming job, Windows programming, especially with some flavor of Visual Studio, is the most useful experience. Java and C#/.NET experience are icing on the cake.

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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Well, I just started a new job today and got a brand spanking new laptop with Vista. I'll get to try it out and get familiar with it for work before I get my home laptop.

Although, I am also the sole Vista user at work, so I am also the guinea pig on finding the Vista-related bugs with our product.

So far I have found Vista navigable, but a little odd. I don't know if it's just being unfamiliar with things. There seems to be more clicking than usual. And there is just...ummmm....MORE. I don't know how else to put it. Less stream-lined and more fluff you need to deal with. Sort of like the migration of Word from simple to bloated.

I'm sure I'll get familiar and comfortable with it in time.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Heh.. I hope never to have to use it. My first laptop is gonna be a Mac

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
Heh.. I hope never to have to use it. My first laptop is gonna be a Mac

Same here... and I can get the homeschool discount! Woot!

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I saw the school discount thing, but I didnt understand.. It looked to me like you COULDNT get it if you were homeschooled.

[edit] I dont see Penn Foster [/edit

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 13, 2007).]

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
quote:
Originally posted by ssquared:
[B]
Although, I am also the sole Vista user at work, so I am also the guinea pig on finding the Vista-related bugs with our product.
B]

That's part of the reason that I wanted to upgrade so quickly. It will almost be impossible to buy an XP machine new in 3 months, and we wanted to see what would be buggy. This is what I have found so far.

Text to speech engine is not compatable. If you have any TTS parts in .net 2.0, they will not upgrade. I am looking for a fix to this.

If your main program writes and accesses other programs, such as command scripts, batch files, etc..., unless all security is turned off in Vista, they will not work either. This is one of the security features.

Installers not specifically made in Vista for Vista will not run in Vista, unless ran as administrator.

I would be interested to see what you find to be general bugs

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Well, today was spent installing the software for our build environment.

Explorer kept crashing. This happened after I installed Tortoise SVN. After doing some quick research, it turns out 1.4.2 is known to have this Vista problem. I installed version 1.4.3 and the problem went away.

Next I've been trying to get 'make' to work in Cygwin, but the cygwin DLL keeps crashing. Sounds like this is possibly known and maybe fixed in a development snapshot, but I don't plan to build cygwin myself.

Other fun things...the pre-installed Sonic drivers which Dell themselves installed, won't work on Vista. I keep getting a message saying Windows has disabled the device. Wouldn't this have been noticed during testing?

Tried three USB mice and none of them would work. Logitech did not have any Vista drivers and the XP ones would not run. Good thing I have a laptop so I can use the pad.

Lots of clicking, clicking, clicking. Answering questions. So far, I just don't get it. XP seems fine enough. But, then, I really like XP.

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by ssquared:

Tried three USB mice and none of them would work. Logitech did not have any Vista drivers and the XP ones would not run. Good thing I have a laptop so I can use the pad.

Wow, USB mice don't work? They should all be standard HID devices like USB keyboards, game controllers, etc, and shouldn't even need a driver. I'm astounded that Vista doesn't have proper HID support. Maybe Vista doesn't have drivers for the USB port/controller itself.

I'm sorry you're stuck with Vista and I'm doubly sorry that you have to use Cygwin. I much prefer MinGW/MSYS.

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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Yep! Three USB mice, none work. Vista kept saying could not install proper driver or something like that.

Not necessarily stuck with Cygwin. Just need some type of unix shell to run a makefile. My manager uses something called MKS and everyone else uses cygwin. If MinGW/MSYS is a possibility, then he probably wouldn't care. Just as long as I can compile. Wanna help get that M/M thing up and running?

The other option is, the previous person had an XP desktop, so I will probably use the desktop for now. I will do new development (VS 2005 C# and C++) and research on the laptop.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I have come up with a wonderful theory: If developers dont buy vista they wont be able to develop on it. If nothing is developed for vista it will be pointless to buy. Instead, if developers switch to better systems, like Mac, or Linux, more will be developed for them, and there will be more reason to buy them (on top of the reasons there already are) Mac and Linux both being Unix based, they would easily work together.

Yes, I know nobody would ever go along with this, but its a nice little dreamworld you must admit =P

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited February 13, 2007).]

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
I do somewhat agree with you GOOP2, but unfortunately, we have to look at the user market share. Practically everything has been switched to Vista at this point. Would anyone be suprized if the Vista market share was greater than the Linux market share by then end of the year?
CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Yeah, Goop2, I wish that were possible. I also wish ATI had better Linux drivers for their cards or I'd be more into Linux gaming already.

quote:
Originally posted by kenman:
Practically everything has been switched to Vista at this point


Except the country of South Korea, whose government has advised that they wait a bit before buying Vista due to incompatibility issues.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
In the UK, Vista adoption has been pretty slow. Nobody turned up to the Midnight launch and everything was pretty much uninspiring. All in all, a good launch

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Valkyri

Member

Posts: 205
From:
Registered: 08-13-2005
Good for yall!

Not to be mean, of course.

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A Game to combine all Games A Game that grows upon itself But A Game that ultimately in the end makes and forces one to ask themselves "Why?"

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
I used the beta for a while and came to a simple conclusion. Vista is just prettier. This also meant it was consuming more of my precious ram. (I only have 512 and I'm pretty sure something is wrong.)

One reason to use Vista: Microsoft has made another decent business move. DX10 will not be backwards compatible and won't make much of an attempt at supporting legacy hardware. It's good business, really. Their market has never been the "hardcore" computer users. "Average" users are the real game, and Microsoft plays beautifully.

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Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Unfortunetly for me, I've got 256, planning on switching partially to Linux anyway.

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MM out-
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I reserve the full right to change my views/theories at any time.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Sadly many people dont care. I have told my parents many times some of the disadvantages to vista. They tend to ignore, and seem surprised when it ends up being what I said. (No, not surprised that Im right) What will happen in the end? I think they will probably get it in their next computers. Actually.. my mom can get it for free now.. Ill have to bring up that topic now that its out.

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
yeah, I'm probably not gonna put vista on my laptop.
it's 512 right now, and I'm upgrading it to 1g.
I heard 1gig is minimum and 2 gigs are recommended.
and even though I have a 64bit processor, I'm still probably not gonna do it.
I frankly don't trust my video card. not too happy with ATI. gonna go back to NVidea.

I'll just have the box sit on my shelf till I build my desktop

although the car GUI seems really cool.

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Realm Master: "I'm cockasian"
Soterion Studios

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by ssquared:

Not necessarily stuck with Cygwin. Just need some type of unix shell to run a makefile. My manager uses something called MKS and everyone else uses cygwin. If MinGW/MSYS is a possibility, then he probably wouldn't care. Just as long as I can compile. Wanna help get that M/M thing up and running?

No problem, MSYS is much simpler than Cygwin. It doesn't even have to be "installed", it can run from its own folder. It is designed to do exactly what you want it to do: "A Minimal SYStem to provide POSIX/Bourne configure scripts the ability to execute and create a Makefile used by make."

http://www.mingw.org/

That site has all the info you need. I think you'll be pleasantly surprised, especially after going to all the trouble trying to get Cygwin to work. MSYS comes with make and gcc and all the tools to build things right away. It has its own UNIX-like shell. Open that, find your source folder and type "make".

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|steveth45|
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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
I got the Cygwin stuff worked out. It was my fault. I needed to install something in the default directory but I changed it. This meant the standard lib headers could not be found in the path pointed to by the makefile. Oooops.

Back to Vista. It has me laughing a lot. I marvel at the amount of over explaining and choices you now get. To replace a file gives you a big dialog box giving you three choices all filled with lots of information and some special checkbox at the bottm. This is like the epitome of 'what not to do' on Joel On Software. You get so scared, you don't know what to do and don't do anything. What was wrong with the XP copy/replace dialog? Too simplistic, I suppose.

When running Visual Studio I am asked EVERYTIME if I am sure I want to lauch it. I get a second message each time reminding me to run it in Adminstrator mode. I AM!!!! I set it up just like it told me too. Ugggh. Two questions everytime I start it up. One reminding me to do something I already did. I think there is a checkbox so I no longer need to see the second one. I'll be sure to check it tomorrow.

Crazyishone: I know. DX10 is only available for Vista. Turns out, Visual Studio 2003 will NOT work on Vista either. You are required to upgrade to 2005 or Express. Odd thing is, when I was installing VS 2005 today I looked stuff up on MSDN and it told me to run VS 2005 on Vista requires a Service Pack 1 for Visual Studio followed by ANOTHER beta Service Pack for Vistual Studio and Vista.

Please note, I am not bashing MS just to bash them. I don't use Linux and have not really had any problems with MS. So this isn't part of a history of rants.

One thing that really irks me is with the Small Business Owner. Let's say they want to get a new laptop from Dell. They are now forced to get Vista. Once they get the laptop they will soon find out they can't install VS 2003. Now they need to spend yet more money to upgrade to VS 2005. I understand MS's reasoning for doing this (Vista is SO different it would be too difficult to get 2003 to work), but it still seems unfair.

Maybe things are diffent with the Home version, but I can't imagine a non-computer literate person dealing with the plethora of questions and mish-mash of dialogs.

Oh, and I tried a Microsoft USB mouse yesterday and still did not work. I've given up on trying a mouse. That's four so far.

Something also happened with my Synaptics touchpad driver. It's not loading or something. I can't get the scrollbar stuff to work and I don't have the item in my tray anymore.

So, there are others of you with Vista. How are things going? Am I being too harsh? Just right? Too generous?

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Hey, turns out there is discussion on Joel on Software regarding the Replace dialog. Sounds like some people like it.

http://discuss.joelonsoftware.com/default.asp?joel.3.419911.9

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Be careful on installing the packs on VS 2005 and vista. Sometimes things don't turn out like you would think. I have had issues with that.

Overall things are not too bad. I do think that Vista compared with XP Pro launches programs noticeably faster. I think this has to do with the large amounts of memory used.

Overall things I really like about vista, and do not like

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
i think im gonna make a trip out to my garage tomorrow (i keep putting it off haha) and find my motherboard box. i cant remember my max specs for ram. i need to update, i bought the cheap stuff when i built this lol.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Vista memory trick

Vista has a component called Readyboost (Renamed and i'm sure propeitary Resiter FS swap drive ha ha) You can match your on board Memory with a usb memory device or usb card. If you are really desperate you could use a digital camera or MP3 player (I have tried it and it works, but seems to be really wastefull to use a digital camera as a memory card) This swap boosts system memory, so if your board only could handle 1GB max, and you had 1GB USB drive, your effective system memory for Vista becomes 2GB.

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by kenman:
You can match your on board Memory with a usb memory device or usb card. ... This swap boosts system memory, so if your board only could handle 1GB max, and you had 1GB USB drive, your effective system memory for Vista becomes 2GB.

I don't fully understand how this is supposed to make things faster since regular hard drives are generally significantly faster than usb memory sticks. Wouldn't it be faster to cache memory to the disk? Windows has already done this for a long time. In fact running Windows XP with 1GB of RAM generally gives you a "commit charge" limit at 2.5 GB, which is to say 1GB of RAM and 1.5 GB of virtual memory paged to disk. So if your system has 1 GB of RAM, your effective system memory is already 2.5GB. In Linux, you usually create a separate "swap" partition, which is faster since it is not intermingled with system and user files on one monolithic partition, and doesn't have to deal with and already fragmented disk storage. Hopefully that's a clue why Windows run so much faster after defragging the hard drive.

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|steveth45|
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kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Honestly, I have no clue why it works or how, the wikipedia states that it is quicker than the hard drive

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost

my personal experience is that it makes a tremendous difference in program start speed. I disabled it and there is somewhat of a lag, and I have 2GB on my board.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
Late Entry:

Make sure that your device is supported by going to their individual web site as not all 2.0 usb devices are supported

steveth45

Member

Posts: 536
From: Eugene, OR, USA
Registered: 08-10-2005
quote:
Originally posted by kenman:
Honestly, I have no clue why it works or how, the wikipedia states that it is quicker than the hard drive

According to this guy at Microsoft, ReadyBoost just serves as a cache for memory already paged to the disk. Hard disks are faster with larger chunks of sequential data, but flash memory can be faster for small chunks of random memory access. That's because flash memory does not have the seek time overhead of a disk head. In any event, ReadyBoost will in no case expand your effective system memory as stated earlier, it will just speed up the virtual memory access times in certain cases (eg. small data chunks or small page files). If Windows needs a larger chunk of data from the virtual memory, it will go to straight to the disk, since the performance will be better. Readyboost can't replace disk-based virtual memory, or act as system RAM.

I could see this slowing an application down that uses larger chunks of data (like video editing software), since Windows will spend more time copying the virtual memory twice (to disk and to the flash memory) without the speed benefit since most of the accesses will go straight to the disk.

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|steveth45|
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kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
I don't belive there is any video editing software that supports vista yet. But as far as other large memory hog programs, I have seen performance incrases. For fun, I created a 450dpi, 48000 x 32000 photoshop image and did not have any slowing down at all when I manipulated the image, it actually was significantly spunkier than XP.
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
ok, i might possibly get vista tomorrow. not sure yet.. .but i would also like to dual boot linux. what is a good distro to choose? and is there any way i can read my windows partitions from linux without them having to be fat32?

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
I am actually using open suse right know I can read ntfs windows partition just fine.
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
welp i got it today, im gonna actually try ubuntu. its supposed to be able to read ntfs.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Actually I got Linspire Live and it reads it without the hassle of mounting. Kinda neat.. Just remember you can only read the files, not write them

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
I head Ubuntu works pretty slick, but you should run the live CD before you install. I can't get Ubuntu to see my windows filesystem , but it sees my sound card, something Suse doesnt. I just want a linux distro that installs cleanly.

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
ok, i've been spending all day trying to get all this stuff to work...
i installed ubuntu, xp and vista. i got xp and vista to work together but they wouldnt see ubuntu. so after playing around with that for a while i decided to forget linux and reinstall vista all by itself. so i did that. after spending a few hours trying to get my hardware working (wireless card - i finally decided to hook it up wierd to download my drivers - why didnt they include wireless card drivers in vista?!) i went in to activate..... i skiped entering in my reg key because it was telling me i had to upgrade from an existing install of windows.. i hate doing dirty installs. so now im installing xp... then i will install vista.... for the 3rd time in one day.... oh well, you learn from m$ mistakes. them and their piracy crap.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
oh yeah.. ubuntu would only let me read ntfs

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Yeah.. I'm not gonna go that route. xp is definitely PLENTY of microsoft for me. My next computer will be windows free. Ill just use this one if I need anything..

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A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
well, i finished installing everything last night.. everything is running pretty smooth actually on only 1gb of ram. It looks like I need to update my video card sometime soon, it caused my "Experience" rating to hit only a 3.3, but the results aren't Hugely visible. Unless thats because I haven't seen vista on a fast computer.
also, im learning how to make gadgets :P (thats what the hello world thing is)

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

[This message has been edited by bwoogie (edited March 11, 2007).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Looks like Mac got drunk and dizzy.

------------------
A n00b is an annoying person who enjoys being destructive.
A newbie is a person who is new to something, and possibly enjoys being creative.

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
oh yeah.. ubuntu would only let me read ntfs


You need a kernel module and a library that uses it. I use ntfs-3g to write to ntfs. ntfs-3g is in the Ubuntu repositories.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
Looks like Mac got drunk and dizzy.



Haha. KDE 4 is going to be sweet.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
just found a glitch. when you press winkey + tab (its the 3d alt+tab) when you go to the desktop the gadgets disappear.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Last week my sidebar/gadgets thing crashed. When I rebooted my computer on Monday morning, they still did not come up. I don't really care about getting them back, but I find it odd for the OS' built-in feature to crash. Then again, I've had several occasions where Explorer has crashed as well.
CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by ssquared:
Then again, I've had several occasions where Explorer has crashed as well.


I've had to kill explorer in XP several times. Or it just crashed on it's own every 5 minutes. I was so mad at XP that I formatted the partition (I re-installed it a few weeks later).

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
just found a glitch. when you press winkey + tab (its the 3d alt+tab) when you go to the desktop the gadgets disappear.


Hey, That doesn't happen 2 me - I wonder why? I use dual monitors.
I have found that everyones vista experience is as different as the user is. I have had nothing but an excellent and easy experience, but the computer store where I buy my computers have had nothing but nightmares, and these guys are geniuses. I am not sure the real world is ready for vista, or maybe it's that vista is not ready for the real world. Not for the tame.

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
weird. i was just playing around with that again. the gadgets disappear if i alt+tab to desktop (all windows minimized) and when i alt+tab to the desktop again the gadgets come back. the gadgets always come back once i open a window and then minimize it back to the desktop. they are there when i hold down winkey+tab but as soon as i go to the desktop its gone. also, if im not on the desktop and i press winkey+tab the picture shows the desktop with my icons, but when im on my desktop it just shows the background.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
I have Vista, and am one of the lucky few who has most of my hardware working.

I couldn't get the upgrade to work, however, and had to do a clean install because the upgrade kept crashing. So always backup all of your data!

I'm running okay with 1 GB of memory, and it actually seems a bit faster than with XP. Maybe it's the clean install. I do plan on upgrading to 2 GB, but I was planning that in XP also.

ReadyBoost is good if you're running low on memory. Then it won't have to go all the way to the slow harddrive for everything.

Games work perfectly, and nVidia has been releasing updates to the drivers fairly frequently. I hear there are some troubles with the 8800, though, since it's a new card. I'm using a 6800 and am pretty happy . Aero works like a charm.

quote:
When running Visual Studio I am asked EVERYTIME if I am sure I want to lauch it. I get a second message each time reminding me to run it in Adminstrator mode. I AM!!!!

Unless you turn off UAC (which I do not recommend), all software is run under user mode by default, regardless of whether you are in an admin profile or not (admin profile just means you don't need a password). If it needs privileges, a UAC dialog will pop up asking you if you want to allow the privilege escalation.

Microsoft did it this was because they found that most people end up using an admin profile after getting frustrated at not being able to do anything in a User profile (although the fact that an XP install creates a single admin profile by default is also to blame).

This is unfortunately a big problem in XP - a lot of stuff just didn't work in user mode. It's a pain to install anything, and many applications wanted admin access just to run.

So users were left with a choice between usability and security. Unfortunately, usability usually won and security lost.

And you all know that Microsoft is always accused of having poor security - and guess what? Most of those problems are from people running only using an Admin profile, which we know is poor security!

Basically, Microsoft didn't have much of a choice - if people kept using only the admin profile like they do in XP, then the problem remains unchanged. Windows is still insecure. They had to do something to keep people safe, even if they were using an admin profile. Hence UAC and applications running in user mode by default, even in the admin profile.

quote:
I don't fully understand how this is supposed to make things faster since regular hard drives are generally significantly faster than usb memory sticks.

Incorrect, actually. Most of the time, the speed listed is the speed to the harddrive's cache (which is only a few MB big - but very fast), not to the physical platter.

In addition, random access is very slow because the head has to move to a new location, whereas with a USB stick it's instant access. ReadyBoost generally deals with random accesses, so you don't have to deal with slow head movements.

bwoogie: Wow, your video card got that rating down? My GeForce 6800 has a gaming rating of 4.7 and an Aero rating of 5.9 - my lowest rating is actually my CPU, which brings it down to 4.1. I'm surprised you can get Aero with that. BTW, A 6800 should be pretty cheap these days.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:
bwoogie: Wow, your video card got that rating down? My GeForce 6800 has a gaming rating of 4.7 and an Aero rating of 5.9 - my lowest rating is actually my CPU, which brings it down to 4.1. I'm surprised you can get Aero with that. BTW, A 6800 should be pretty cheap these days.


Yeah, I have a radeon 9500. It's next on the upgrade list, that or more ram. When I ran the upgrade advisory test it actually did tell me to get Home Basic, but I new that sooner or later I'd upgrade my system, so there is no point of buying windows twice. Besides, I had the beta and Aero was working fine then.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Cobra, nice information. Thanks. Do I understand correctly that if I have UAC turned on, I will be asked if I want to run Visual Studio each time I start it up? Even though I am an Administrator and have selected to start it in Administration mode?

This just seems counter-productive.

On another note, I woke my computer up this morning and got a BSOD. Yikes! I didn't even have enough time to jot down the error message. It just showed up and then rebooted my machine. But my gadgets appeared this time.

Kenman, glad to hear your experience is going well.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
All your questions about UAC can be found here (It's an interview with the guys who created it):

http://channel9.msdn.com/shows/Going_Deep

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
I disabled UAC as soon as i found it in the control panel. I'm sorry, i just couldnt handle it asking me everytime if it was ok when i wanted to install something. It gets so annoying to me. I mean, if I want to install something is that thing really gonna stop me? No. I'm gonna install a program whether or not that thing warns me "OH NOES! COULD INFECTED WITH TEH VIRUS! REALLY RUN THIS YOU WANT!?" Besides, I'm a pretty responsible computer user, I dont just install any random old thing.... Unless I'm totally misunderstanding the point of the UAC..

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
I mean, if I want to install something is that thing really gonna stop me?

The intent it not to prevent you from installing software, but to prevent installation of malicious code that you did not intend to install. For example, Sony's infamous DRM rootkit software.

I like the way Jimmy Brush says it:

quote:
Q: I am a system administrator - I have no use for UAC.

A: Really? You don't NEED to know when a program on your computer runs with admin powers? You are a system administrator and you really could care less when a program runs that has full control of your system, and possibly your entire domain? You're joking, right?


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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited March 15, 2007).]

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
yeah... i suppose that's true. but since it can be disabled by the user, whats gonna stop malicious software from disabling it?

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

[This message has been edited by bwoogie (edited March 15, 2007).]

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
but since it can be disabled by the user, whats gonna stop malicious software from disabling it?

You need admin privileges to disable it. You have to get past UAC in order to disable UAC . The user gets presented with the UAC dialog and has the chance to say "no, I do not want you to disable my UAC."

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited March 15, 2007).]

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
my dad bought a laptop with vista on it today.... and within two hours of him getting it, he got a blue screen of death.... exciting new technology eh?
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
.....they got rid of the BSOD in xp....
right? :|

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
no... in fact i got the blue screen of death while fiddling with IIS at work (Dot-net-nuke stuff). needless to say, i don't do work stuff on my laptop anymore
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
interesting. I've never got a bsod on xp or vista... i havnt gotten any system errors in vista yet... and the only errors i got on xp were the "we're sorry *app* encountered and error and must close yada yada"

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
with all these crashes in vista, you would think some people would wait until the patches/fixes came out before going out and blowing their money. in the real world stability beats cutting edge in 99% of cases. would you trust your banking account information on a computer that is glitchy, or on glitchy software that might lost you latest deposit or two? i'll be using xp for quite a while longer, and i might start using linux if it ever get's it's compatibility issues resolved, vista is still better out of the box than most linux distros...if not all. imho.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
I don't think i'd ever agree to you on that one... i'm not sure what your experiences with linux is if any, but that's a pretty bold statement. I'm not a linux freak but i know that a good distro (and sometimes not even a "good" one) won't have that many compatibility issues (still not really sure what you classify as "compatibility issues" though)
bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
I haven't blown my money. The fixes will come in time. And personally, I haven't seen any glitches. I think most likely the majority of people who are claiming vista has a million glitches are the people who haven't even used it yet. They heard one person say it and so they automatically believe them and tell their friends and on and on. Death by word of mouth.

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Well I got my copy of Vista from University on Friday. I currently have my cup of tea resting on it right now. Whilst i ponder what to do with it.

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
I currently have my cup of tea resting on it right now.

Well at least you found one use for it.

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
hehe, if you're not gonna use it you can send it to me. i can put it to GOOD use

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by bwoogie:
hehe, if you're not gonna use it you can send it to me. i can put it to GOOD use


What do you have in mind?

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Calin

Member

Posts: 358
From: Moldova
Registered: 12-04-2006
He lost his dart board.
CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
.....they got rid of the BSOD in xp....
right? :|

No, but they have done plenty to improve stability in both XP and Vista.

I didn't actually see a BSOD in XP on my first computer - I did, however, see it a few times on a Compaq. Usually, a BSOD in XP or Vista probably means a driver or hardware issue. I've yet to see a BSOD in Vista on my current computer, BTW.

quote:
I'm not a linux freak but i know that a good distro (and sometimes not even a "good" one) won't have that many compatibility issues

Two words: Wireless Networking

So far, my troubles with Vista are minimal. A few rough edges, but nothing major.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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SSquared

Member

Posts: 654
From: Pacific Northwest
Registered: 03-22-2005
Like I mentioned, I received a BSOD in Vista just the other day when I woke it up. In 5 years, having used multiple computers, I received one BSOD in XP, and that was because I was trying some NVidia demos. This made sense, since it was probably with a video driver.

XP definitely did a great job in preventing BSODs.

My Windows Explorer continues to crash, but this may be due to SubVersion, and not so much a Vista specific issue.

For those of you who are doing fine with Vista, I am curious to know if you find it worthwhile over XP? Do you feel Vista is a great leap forward and a "must-have" OS? What value has it offered you over XP? What aspects of Vista do you enjoy?

I do like the new thumbnail view when you go down to an item along the Task Bar. I use that quite often.

jestermax

Member

Posts: 1064
From: Ontario, Canada
Registered: 06-21-2006
i found Aero was pretty to look at....for the first 5 minutes.

My XP crash was a permissions issue i think, or at least several processes battling for the same resource. DotNetNuke/IIS caused it when i tried to make a folder public (or something along those lines). Either way, it consistently gave me a BSOD. Other than that.... i don't remember the last time i got one with XP...

kenman

Member

Posts: 518
From: Janesville WI
Registered: 08-31-2006
What do I like about Vista.

Runs what it runs quicker than XP. I seem to visibly notice the change. Boots quicker than XP.

Other than that, what I have found most annoying, is that there is still way to many programs are not compatible with Vista. Some programs seem to want to be activated everytime that you boot the system.

Is Vista "Must Have" If you are selling software, I say yes because you will want to see what your software does on Vista. If you don't want Vista, then find someone who would be willing to test your software to see what happens when it runs. Unfortunately the big computer companies are going to have Vista pre loaded on everything. My guess is that before then end of the year, Vista will hold a signficant share of the market. One that cannot be overlooked from a sales standpoint.

I'm glad I have it so I can check our software out, but honestly, I mainly am using XP now becuase so much of what I do cannot be done on vista.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
For those of you who are doing fine with Vista, I am curious to know if you find it worthwhile over XP? Do you feel Vista is a great leap forward and a "must-have" OS? What value has it offered you over XP? What aspects of Vista do you enjoy?

Nothing really big, but lots of little stuff. Per-application volume controls. Real time previews when task switching. Improved security. New solution finder for problems, and reliability and performance monitor. A lot more stuff is previewed in your icons - even the folder icons have a couple of previews sticking out as "pages" in the folder. Even my OpenOffice.org documents showed thumbnail previews of the documents!

The user folders are also a lot less dependent on an actual path, and can be moved to another folder or drive easily.

I like the Aero theme much better than XP's default theme. IMHO, Luna was ugly. I always ended up switching back to the classic theme. Plus they bought back the ability to fully customize the color . I can handle Aero much better than Luna. Luna was big & flashy, Aero is a bit more minimal and much cleaner.

quote:
I do like the new thumbnail view when you go down to an item along the Task Bar. I use that quite often.

Do it while playing a movie in Media Player . The movie will actually play in the preview! Same when you use Alt+Tab and Start+Tab.

Also, Vista automatically defrags files while the computer is idle. No more having to manually defrag, although the option is still there.

Vista also has done a lot to making it faster, or seem faster at least. The lockup when opening a large explorer folder is gone, replaced with the folder showing you the file list in real time as it loads.

In addition, Vista records what you do and tries to be smart about loading stuff. If you open the same application at the same time of day every day, it will notice that and load the files it needs into memory ahead of time so it's already in memory when you open it. One of the channel 9 videos discusses it. I forget which video .

A lot of Vista improvements are "under the hood" so to speak. They may not be immediately visible, but do make it feel like a better OS overall.

For the average Joe, I'd recommend waiting about a year before getting Vista so all of the rough edges and hardware issues can be sorted out. In fact, I'd recommend getting it with a new computer rather than upgrading an older one - it seems that upgrading can be a bit painful; I personally could not upgrade because it kept giving me BSODs when I tried. I had to do a clean install.

For developers, it's pretty much a must have. The world is quickly moving to Vista, and all new computers being sold that I can see have it. You definitely want your software to be compatible with Vista.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:
Do it while playing a movie in Media Player . The movie will actually play in the preview! Same when you use Alt+Tab and Start+Tab.


I love the feature in Beryl!

quote:
Also, Vista automatically defrags files while the computer is idle. No more having to manually defrag, although the option is still there.


That should make it easier for the IT guys, if it continues to work properly.

quote:

For developers, it's pretty much a must have. The world is quickly moving to Vista, and all new computers being sold that I can see have it. You definitely want your software to be compatible with Vista.


On that Developer note, could anyone who's running Vista do me a favor? I'd like to know if the Bible Dave windows executable runs in Vista. It's only about 10 megs and you can get the installer (no dependencies needed) here.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i was just on a rant anyway, you silly linux people . linux has one bad thing, that isn't really it's fault, and that's that hardware companies aren't too worried about making linux drivers. i guess windows is compatible with virtually everything, because virtually everything is made for windows. everything i use is for windows. visual studio, macromedia studio. linux has been catching my eye for 2 reasons. it's free. and i could(if i could figure it out) make backup copies of my copyright protected cds and dvds, and i think rip them to iso images. but i don't have near enough linux knowledge to figure it out.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

TwoBrothersSoftware

Member

Posts: 141
From: Janesville, Wi USA`
Registered: 08-05-2006
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
linux has one bad thing, that isn't really it's fault,

I would argue two things (and I've been a linux user for 7+ years)

soo many distro the industry gets confused as to what to support

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Yeah, agree. It's not really the fault of Linux, but it certainly doesn't help anything . I've done some dual booting, and it's not a bad OS, but I do so much Windows-only stuff I can't really justify a switch.

What I have done, however, is to switch to mostly open source stuff - I've got the GIMP, Inkscape, and OpenOffice.org on my Windows box, along with a bunch of other open source stuff. Open Source stuff is very nice . It usually far surpasses any freeware/shareware you'll find.

quote:
I love the feature in Beryl!

What is Beryl?

quote:
On that Developer note, could anyone who's running Vista do me a favor? I'd like to know if the Bible Dave windows executable runs in Vista. It's only about 10 megs and you can get the installer (no dependencies needed) here.

Sure .

I installed it, which came up with the UAC (which is standard for installers) - but it didn't install bibledave.exe . I found a bunch of Python scripts, an uninstaller, a main.exe that just throws some commandline stuff and quits, but no bibledave.exe, and nothing that I can see that would start it.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:
What is Beryl?


Beryl is the Linux equivalent of Aereo. Many features in Aereo have been around and available for Linux or built into Mac OS X for several years.

quote:

I installed it, which came up with the UAC (which is standard for installers) - but it didn't install bibledave.exe . I found a bunch of Python scripts, an uninstaller, a main.exe that just throws some commandline stuff and quits, but no bibledave.exe, and nothing that I can see that would start it.



Thanks for testing BD. Hmm. I will apoligize for the installer and all. It needs to be polished before the Bible Dave Beta release. I keep forgetting to remove all mentions of bibledave.exe in the installer. main.exe is Bible Dave now. It does print stuff to the console, and then loads the game. I see that it doesn't work by default in Vista. Would you do me one more favor? Could you post the errors? I'm fairly sure this isn't a Bible Dave problem, but more a Python, Pygame and Py2exe incompatibility with Vista. Of the three I believe Py2exe (the library that creates Windows executables) is the culprit because it's been tuned to work with XP and older Windows versions of Windows. AFAIK there is not vista compatible version of Py2exe. Well enough rambling. Thanks again.

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All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Microsoft Windows [Version 6.0.6000]
Copyright (c) 2006 Microsoft Corporation. All rights reserved.

C:\Users\Jeremiah>cd "\Program Files\Bible Dave"

C:\Program Files\Bible Dave>main
The configuration file is located at: C:\Users\Jeremiah\.bibledave
Traceback (most recent call last):
File "main.py", line 21, in ?
import base
File "zipextimporter.pyc", line 82, in load_module
File "base.pyc", line 372, in ?
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'cavetiles'

C:\Program Files\Bible Dave>

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Cool. MS finally dropped "Documents and Settings" and switched to users.

quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'cavetiles'

Ok. This looks like a BD problem to me. I'll go tweak things. Thanks a lot Cobra.

------------------
All Your Base Are Belong To Us!!! chown -r us ./base
"After three days without programming, life becomes meaningless.'' -- Tao of Programming Book 2

"Oh, bother," said the Borg. "We've assimilated Pooh."

"Socialism works great... if there are no people involved." -- Pastor David Ginter, Union Church of Guatemala.

My Programming and Hacker/Geek related Blog

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
Cool. MS finally dropped "Documents and Settings" and switched to users.

Yup. They also dropped the "My" on "My Documents," "My Pictures," etc and now it's just "Documents" "Pictures" etc. People were finding those names too long to type. "C:\Documents and Settings\User Name\My Documents\My Pictures" is quite a bit to type.

FYI, it was the shortcut placed on the desktop that pointed to bibledave.exe.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

My blog
My shop

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:

On that Developer note, could anyone who's running Vista do me a favor? I'd like to know if the Bible Dave windows executable runs in Vista. It's only about 10 megs and you can get the installer (no dependencies needed) here.


I just tried it also, and the exe file is missing.

------------------
~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.

bwoogie

Member

Posts: 380
From: kansas usa
Registered: 03-12-2005
I just got my first BSOD! I guess i was wrong, they do still have them. I was messin around with my new capture card and all of the sudden i saw the blue and then my computer just restarted

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~~~boogie woogie woogie~~~
Jesus didn't come to save the saints.