spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
hey i just wanted to know what you guys think of illegal file sharing,is it moral,ethical ,justified...some say so but i disagree.what's your opinion? ------------------ |
samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
1Pet 2:13-21 Its illegal, regardless of how stupid of a law the people who rationalize it think. If you want to change that, talk with your congressmen. ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
true,submission to the authorities is important. ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
Illegal, immoral IMO ------------------ |
bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
it doesn't matter if it's illegal or legal. prostitution is iegal in some places, having sex with someone you're not married to is legal here in the u.s. but that doesn't make it right. on the issue of pirated software it coems down to this. the people who own the software require you to pay to use it, if you go against the owners wishes it is STEALING. it doesn't matter how much it sucks, it's the truth. that's not an opinion. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
Morality aside for a minute, a problem/feature with the digital age is you can make an exact replicate of whatever you purchased and give it to someone else without losing your investment. Imagine if some invented a replicator ala Star Trek tomorrow and you could get one for $50 at walmart, the only trick is you have to feed it mineral composite discs that cost about 25cents each. Just say.. So, a friend comes over and needs to cook something in your microwave because he doesn't have one. You are tired of him bugging you and so you pick up a bundle of disks and replicate them into a microwave. You don't sell it to him, just give it out of the generosity of your heart. Is that wrong? Didn't you pay for the microwave? Didn't you pay for the disks? Didn't you pay for the replicator? Do you have to pay for permission to copy something that you bought outright? Can't you photocopy a book at the library or record a song off the radio? Some say its ok to copy something and do whatever you want with it, because you own it. Hence the moral issue. Some also say that EULA's are immoral. ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 25, 2007).] |
jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
heres a case scenario that i did, feel free to comment. i downloaded a cd of a christian group called Jonah33, and i sent them money via paypal thus bypassing the middleman. Opinions? |
bwoogie Member Posts: 380 From: kansas usa Registered: 03-12-2005 |
i think sharing illegal files is wrong... even more so as i become more serious everyday about becoming a professional developer. but sam, you bring something else up about recording songs of the radio, but more frequently done is recording shows off of tv... is that wrong? i dont personally think it is. i mean, duh, you cant go and sell it - that is wrong. but for your own personal viewing i think thats ok. otherwise why would they invent the vcR? ------------------ |
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bwoogie Member Posts: 380 From: kansas usa Registered: 03-12-2005 |
quote: umm. why? if you're gonna pay for it why not get the actual content (cd/ book /case/whatever) btw, what'd you tell them? "I illegally downloaded your music, here's some cash." ------------------ |
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jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
no, i didn't tell them that. i already had their cd for a while since someone burned it for me (downloaded and burned). But i figured i want to support christian artists so i'm going through a campaign of buying the cds i have copies of. In this case though, Jonah33 needed money because of a broken down touring vehicle so i sent the money to them directly. |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
quote: Why did they invent the CD-R? The reason is, no one thought it through. In the past recording or photocopying was a degraded copy. But digital information changed that. So that's why politicians are scrambling to come up with things like the DMCA. God's economy is that of unity and inter-reliance of people on Him and one another. The stealing mentioned in the bible is regarding taking something that someone HAS. Not something that someone COULD have. (if I am correct?) Saying that pirated software is stealing is making the assumption that the person was going to buy it to begin with. I'll stick with my illegal argument. And I have a feeling if there is software in heaven it will be open-source and freely copyable. EDIT: In reply to: quote: How about ripping tv shows with a DVR and uploading them to YouTube? It just seems like there is a double standard whenever someone mentions computers and the internet. ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
THE question is more about deception than that of stealing ,by sharing you are violating the eula you agreed to,therefore you are lying and deceptive. ------------------ |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
What about music or movies then? I've never accepted a EULA for those. ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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jestermax Member Posts: 1064 From: Ontario, Canada Registered: 06-21-2006 |
what about the laws of different countries? US, Canada, UK, China... do they not have different laws about this? |
NetCog Member Posts: 149 From: Registered: 06-15-2006 |
quote:
That is not the case. Music needs to jump on board with software, there have been a little bit of crossover but no where near the kind of public, visible, clear, and easy to understand sort of licensing and controls that many software titles. Additionally, problems surface when you "release" one or two songs for p2p distribution for 2 months then try to "take it back". That's just stupid. Like this whole DMCA 3-5 year review where certain things are "allowable" for a time then drop off the list if not renewed...beyond idiotic. [This message has been edited by NetCog (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
True, so, assume you lived in a country where it was not illegal. Would it still be immoral i.e. a sin? EDIT: @NetCog No kidding. They are backpedaling. But Still since I am a Christian and my God has asked me to obey the government He has put over me I will.. as long as it doesn't contradict His laws. ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
man i just so the who's online page and we have like 3 people replying at once... ------------------ |
firemaker103 Member Posts: 643 From: Registered: 07-13-2005 |
Edit: You guys don't want to hear my opinion. [This message has been edited by firemaker103 (edited January 26, 2007).] |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
quote: Awww crap... Realm Master: Hardened Criminal, or just a guy who wants a free song for flash animations? ------------------ |
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Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
Well, lets just say someone bought a game and then put it on a P2P program, and someone downloads it, now lets just say someone goes to the person's house who bought the game and took it from their house without them knowing. Who was stealing? The person who downloaded it on a P2P program, the person who took it in the real world or both? And who are they stealing from, the person who bought it or the company who made it? This is a question for you guys, so I'm not saying I'm on one side or another ------------------ [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited January 25, 2007).] |
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bwoogie Member Posts: 380 From: kansas usa Registered: 03-12-2005 |
@lava: that's a very tricky question. Both are stealing. It doesn't really matter who you're stealing from. It's just the fact alone that you would have no right to the software/music/etc.. But for the sake of the argument. obviously, if you go to someone's house and take something you are stealing from the person who bought it... BUT! At the same time you are also stealing from the company. it doesn't matter how you got the media - you still have an illegal copy. ------------------ |
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Lava Member Posts: 1905 From: Registered: 01-26-2005 |
So, putting illegal matters aside, if the P2P downloader is stealing, does that mean that the person who bought the game never owned the game in the first place? ------------------ [This message has been edited by LAVA (edited January 25, 2007).] |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
illegal file sharing? well, that's illegal. it's the gray area where I play. ... man... I just sounded like the devil. anyhow, this is a very tricky grounds and not necessarily clear. LAVA brings up a good point, you don't really own it, even if you bought it, if it's wrong to copy. It is perfectly legal to copy stuff for yourself. to the issue of recording movies on a vcr, they had a court case and they said it is fine do so. it was Sony against.. err.. someone. ------------------ |
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spade89 Member Posts: 561 From: houston,tx Registered: 11-28-2006 |
ok how about this someone buys lets say microsoft vista and copys the cd's contents to his disk,then he shares it using a p2p software,now who is stealing the guy who uploaded(shared),or the guy who is downloading??? in other words is it bad if you share or is it bad if you recieve. ------------------ |
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samw3 Member Posts: 542 From: Toccoa, GA, USA Registered: 08-15-2006 |
I know this has been my rant, but I think its the real problem. You know mankind faced a similar problem with the dawn of mass-production in the industrial age. People we're "stealing" other people's creative designs and building machines to reproduce them. The Problem Then: That which is sold can be duplicated exactly. The answer was a set of laws. The patent laws. The Problem Now: That which is sold can be duplicated exactly for little or no cost. If you buy a new car from a dealership and give it to someone the car dealership doesn't have a problem. But they probably would if you bought a new car and duplicated it for 25 cents and gave the copy to someone else. Why? Because the value of their product rapidly approaches $0. If everyone copied the same car, then no one would buy cars. If no one bought cars the car companies would not earn money, go out of business, people would lose jobs, and there would be no more new cars. In that light, its an economics problem. Laws govern economical problems. That is how civilization works. In this new millennium, digital information is now a commodity--a salable item--and digital information can be cheaply and exactly copied. So there needs to be laws in place that govern "rights of ownership" which leads to sticky situations. Can you own an idea? a thought? These are information as well. I believe the Bible doesn't directly cover this since it is talking about two people's property, oxen, cattle, not things that can be copied. If you take it, they don't have it anymore. And who is the owner of a copied item? The original seller or the creator? If I scan and print a Picasso because I want a copy in my living room and my den, do I have to buy it again from the store or from Picasso directly? So, as long as it is illegal I won't do it, but I don't see how it directly relates to the stealing portrayed in the Bible. But, I may be wrong, so what are your thoughts? ------------------ [This message has been edited by samw3 (edited January 26, 2007).] |
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NetCog Member Posts: 149 From: Registered: 06-15-2006 |
There are rules and methods already in place to govern such a system.....it's called "software" (not directed at you, just directed at the idiots running media content). That system isn't perfect but it's a darn sight better than most of what I've seen come out of Hollywood/Nashville/otherbigmediatown. |
