People have become much colder and too turned off with so much news that people do not care, also that there are more problems and more things to distract them than before. The newspapers in England at Ghandhi's time showed how many Indians died every day from British forces and people didn’t like that and the government did not have the power as it does today. But if we see all around the world in conflicts you don’t have the same thing and the government in country controls the news despite the news saying otherwise and only pointing that the other countries are government controlled.

Also the fact that Christians have become weaker and dilated standards than 50 years ago which would explain much of the crap that goes on all over the world. Would you support another country getting 15 million a day from your country the US even though people are in need of help here and over 85% of Americans are in debt? Would you support another country that uses the money to make WMD, within 5 years killed 5,000 kids and adults, and injures 30,000? Or how about if that country has over 60 violations by world organizations, imprison without trial and torcher 10,000, destroy thousands of the others homes, discriminate against the other, and instigate problems? What if Christian were dwindling every year and have more restrictions and are considered a bad influence?

Would Christ like those figures or favor it? Do most Americans not know what goes on in the world or they don’t care as long as their bond bonds and nicely chilled while paying for it with borrowed money that they can’t afford? Do we need more deaths and more that should suffer? Should it be the same rules as how we the city puts stop signs on street corners after a certain number of fatalities for them to know things are bad?

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
As some already know my topics are not for kids under 20 so if you are maybe you should not read and go read my little pony, or Sesame Street.

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Yeah I'll go *read* sesame street, you should check out their graphic novels , jk lol.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

People have become much colder and too turned off with so much news that people do not care, also that there are more problems and more things to distract them than before.

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Yeah I agree, Weird Al wrote a song called "Why Does This Always Happen To Me" on this album Poodle Hat, and it characterizes what you're saying.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

Also the fact that Christians have become weaker and dilated standards than 50 years ago which would explain much of the crap that goes on all over the world.

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Tell me about it! Did you know that some Christians watch vulgar shows like South Park??? It's shocking!

Haha, just kiddin'

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 15, 2006).]

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

Warsong, you're right, absolutely right. So what I suggest we do is go out and buy a few ak-47's, maybe a missile or two, some C4, and blow up the white house and the capitol.

Then let's take over a couple nuke silos and send a coupla missiles over to N. Korea and those other places.

...err wait, we're Christians.
So what do you want us to do, huh? Protest? Maybe go out and wave signs in the street and yell slogans on megaphones?
"Kick out the idiots! Oh, and Praise the Lord!"
"Kick out the idiots - "

Yep, we've got a good Biblical precedent for that. When John the Baptist was murdered by Herod, Jesus and the disciples went up there and had a rally and protested Herod's government and passed out fish and chips...

Warsong, you remind me more of my Dad every day. Maybe you even are him! (Uh-oh - quickly hides)
But all this gloom and doom doesn't help much, does it? I used to be kinda like you, and I used to want to do what I just extolled in the above paragraph, but not anymore. I decided to be brainwashed a different way is all(like crazyishone said).

Lazarus

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

quote:

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Originally posted by buddboy:
no. i just dont like it when people think because im under 18 or 20 or whattheflipever im stupid and immature. i know sometimes on here i come off as immature but this place is a release for me. i can type and type and nobody is gonna freak out at me (at least not in a way that i can avoid, i can just not come on here for awhile if i feel like it, you cant leave life), unless of course im just spamming =D

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Yeah, I understand.

Warsong can be very insulting, before you even say anything. That's why it is hard to agree with him

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 15, 2006).]

Lazarus

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

But I only got into the girls thread around page 28 I think, so I'm off the hook more than you.

Lazarus

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
yeah, that ticks me off too. I don't usually reveal my age on forums for that very reason, and mostly people think I'm an adult.

Lazarus

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And you know what I find is funny? How Warsong at the beginning of his post says that people under 20 shouldn't read his posts (which come on, his posts are nothing too much to handle, even if you went back in time to the 1950's with his post, people from that time could handle it ).

Then in the next moment, he says people are too cold that all of the stuff on TV doesnt effect people. Do I see a contradiction here???

Why does he *basically* tell us to grow up and read his "mature" posts, but say we're too cold to ignore the stuff on TV!

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 15, 2006).]

Let's say I watch a show like Walker, which has many episodes where criminals do horrible things(murder, kidnap, rape, etc.), and then Walker boots and shoots them up and puts them in jail.

Am I cold to that, does it affect me? Certainly not(I should hope).
None of these events really happened, it hasn't made me want to act like the criminals, I do feel empathy for the victims when they are hurt(but even then I'm still aware it's a TV show and they are just actors).

Lazarus

frankly, our view of history is painted either with roses or skulls, we rarely capture the true picture. really, it seems like the state of humans has remained relatively constant, with it's ups and downs. Humans as a whole haven't gone anywhere, neither better nor worse, throughout our lives.

Warsong paints a picture of our country as a killer and descrator of the world. I could easily go on the otherside and show how we give the largest amount of aid and help to other countries. We destroyed the rape and torture rooms in Iraq. We ended the concentration camps of Hitler. We feed the nations who threaten to attack us.

after a while, I can't take warsong seriously. almost all his posts are trying to show America and the Jews as jerks. If I wanted a biased opinions, I'll take a poly sci class.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

yeah, i said a while back when he said that life isn't all roses i said its not all thorns either and all his posts seem like that.

man, i dont even wanna get into the jew thing...

that topic was crazy.

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

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+---------+
|steveth45|
+---------+

I generaly asked questions and no one replied to it which again is why I said no one under 20. I’m sorry I get serious at times but I don’t expect most people to care about these issues some under 20 probably should not, and if they did then they should quit complaining and reply.

Arch if I was on the ESRB you would not have junk on TV for kids. Like Naruto a cartoon shows for kids about pre teen ninjas learning how to assassinate. :P Just because you don't get it does not mean you get all the news. It shows you are one sided since you do not want to hear an opposing view since your points are weak to debate it. I did very well in political science debating classes and my professor from Colombia University knew it. The only problem is it's too bad we don't have a neutral mediator to take score.

Steve I agree. People should just answer the questions than get off topic.

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited October 15, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by steveth45:
"Don't have anything to do with foolish and stupid arguments, because you know they produce quarrels. And the Lord's servant must not quarrel; instead, he must be kind to everyone, able to teach, not resentful." 2 Tim 2:23,24

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They sure do!

Well, I can't teach worth a lick, right now anyway.

Lazarus

plus, why should we reply when you're going to insult us like that? you make me so mad sometimes. 'you do not want to hear an opposing view because your points are weak to debate it'?

oh you took a poly science class? <dripping with sarcasm>surprise, surprise! </dripping with sarcasm>

its people with views like you who make me sick.

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

Actually warsong, I can understand where you are coming from since I know a couple people like this.

Firstly, I'd like you to point out where we took things out of context.
Secondly, saying you don't expect people under 20 to care about these issues is highly insulting, as I'm sure you must know.
Thirdly, fine I'll answer your questions.

quote:

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What if Christians were dwindling every year and have more restrictions and are considered a bad influence?

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A bad influence to who? If it is to non-christians, well duh.
If it is to other Christians, then that's pretty sad. If it is true.
Restrictions? Man, I know a lot about restrictions.
How old am I? Fifteen. When do I go to sleep at night?
9:00 p.m. Why? Because if parents were to find me on my computer at 10:00 p.m on my computer or just simply up, they'd have a fit and I'd get in trouble. Because they are restrictive.
I think there may be a problem with a lot of Christians being too restrictive and some being too unrestrictive(possibly).

quote:

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Would Christ like those figures or favor it? Do most Americans not know what goes on in the world or they don’t care as long as their bond bonds and nicely chilled while paying for it with borrowed money that they can’t afford? Do we need more deaths and more that should suffer? Should it be the same rules as how we the city puts stop signs on street corners after a certain number of fatalities for them to know things are bad?

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Two words. "THAT'S LIFE!"
The world is an unpleasant place sometimes. It's not like someone like me can just go out there and stop the death and the suffering and put up street signs everywhere. I could do that somewhat, and that would be good.

And God isn't exactly surprised by the way the world is. They crucified his son, remember?

...whoops, I'm beginning to ramble here.
So uh, warsong, head over to the soterion forum and join us in a smiley war competition, why don't you?

Lazarus

hey, you go to bed at 9? me too. it sucks.

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

quote:

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Arch if I was on the ESRB you would not have junk on TV for kids.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:

ESRP is for video games, just like Sesame Street is for TV.

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Haha, exactly what I was thinking.

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that post was really cool ^

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[|=D) <---|| me

quote:

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Originally posted by buddboy:
if i was a cursing man i would tell you to **** off. go read sesame street?

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[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 15, 2006).]

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Arch this one is for you and your one sided view.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100800817.html
Bravo with the esp abc rateing. Do you want a medal or a statue. As if I care, since I am not restricted by ratting unlike some others. Get on topic!
The point of freedom of speech it to talk about issues to find the truth, not to use that to attack the person that is trying to talk, but what would you know.

As MR.T says don’t be a fool stay in school. He finally became more Christian and took off his 10 pounds of cold and said never again will he put on jewelry since he is a Christian now and doesn’t want to show off while others are hungry.

So many people like to derail. Maybe have a video game where it’s like rampage and you derail trains lol

Anyway
Bud
I know what Steve was talking about. :P Calm down, this is why I said you should not read since how you acted was improper.

Zookey
That was funny LOL but stupid

Faith
I guess you don’t vote of drive as well since kids are not allowed as well.

Laz
You seem mellower and don’t go ballistic. As for out of context well pretend you are a lawyer and you had to defend or you think only positive then look how thing are said. It’s an exercise. One example is not to go out and buy ak47 since that will not solve it.
As for Christians dwindling I was referring to non Christians places that many Christians support. But as for Christians well look at statistics around the world how Christians are becoming less and less compared to others. If things persist as they are then all of Europe will be majority non Christian in 25-50 years. Many Christians do not care to get married have sexual relations or kids, but care for sexual relations only with many others.
My comments are indirect to show the real person. It’s like I don’t ask a crazy person if they are crazy, or a liar if they lie, or a Christian if they are a Christian. I see by actions, you throw bait to see what kind of people they are. Most people fail the test but. If you feel you are mature enough then talk and ignore it, if you are going to derail and complain then you fail. I don’t care for people ages and some under 20 act more mature than some over 50 but in general I don’t care to deal with most immature people so is that too much to ask for. If people they are mature then they should not say anything and prove it.
As for your comments “that’s life” obviously but I am not asking if that is life or not but if people agree or not since this was “supposed” to be a post to unravel the issue than turn it to poop as some did already. The thing is that many support these things with pride and joy without knowing what they cheer for and they prejudge things without understating the entire situation.

Cheese
True. But as I posted in one topic in a reply which I don’t think anyone read. It was about bill gates in how he gave ½ his fortune to Africa and how out tax $ go their too. The more we help the more we make other countries worse. Why? Well I explained in detail in that post which I can’t seem to find now, maybe I should use an independent search engine for this site. Anyway saying how the more money we give the worse they become since the rulers in Africa take the money and don’t give to the people to show that things are bad so that the US and the Rich people keep give money. And many educated Africans complain about that, and many others in other countries have similar complaints with different circumstances. And then you have people like bono that tries to help Africa and wonders why the world is against the US. As one priest said that terrorism is caused by injustice and when people like the US fight terrorist it only causes more problems. Did you know that 100 years ago there were no homeless people in some parts of Europe? Think about how much it cost to have a home compared to now and now much things have sky rocketed. Even 50 years ago one guy can work and feed his entire family and have many kids and live at a good place, but not now. Some good and some bad but we got the wrong end of the stick since we got a lot of good things but they didn’t out weight the bad if we add everything together. Even Donald trump said there is no middle class. Things will get worse despite some people die of starvation. It’s not about what we have now but what we wont have or our kids won’t have. If we keep looking at the good side and ignore the bad then we will get kicked form behind from the bad. And the people to blame are everyone despite everyone here meaning well and are good people, if they are Christian or not.

CASE CLOSED! GET ON TOPIC!

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

GET ON TOPIC!

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Why should we? We're ignorant savages anyway, haha.

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Cause if the money is wasted, then their only chance is to get direct help (schools/hospitals etc.). But if entire villages get shot/chopped up over there, how can we keep those places safe? Basically we have to bring the Army everywhere we go, but then that makes you an invader.

Bloody warlords...

quote:

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Faith
I guess you don’t vote of drive as well since kids are not allowed as well.

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(Woohoo, ready to be hit with the wittiest thing Warsong can think of! BRING IT ON! I just drew a target on my back!)

P.S. I'm 19, a sophomore in college, if my opinion doesn't matter to you, fine, but guess what, anyhow who doesn't value my opinion, I don't value theirs. Warsong, your words carry as much weight as a wet paper towel.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

It just goes to show that the real problem is the heart of man... No matter how much money we give, or how many wars we fight, the only way this can be changed is through the power of God, it's gotta be done His way. We'll just have to fight these things by proclaiming the name of Jesus Christ and the transforming power of His Resurrection to the world!

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Your love, O Lord, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep.
O Lord , you preserve both man and beast.
How priceless is your unfailing love!

Wow; I've only read a little of this post... I thought Warsong was rather popular, or rather not despised! I guess I must have missed something... anywho...

I agree that America is in serious trouble, with everything going to the lowest common denominator, I wonder what'll happen when the denominator reaches 0?

And if Gandhi was alive today, he'd stage a sit-in.
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If you can see Chuck Norris, He can see You.
If you Can't see Chuck Norris, you may be seconds away from death.

[This message has been edited by luke (edited October 16, 2006).]

quote:

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Arch this one is for you and your one sided view.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/08/AR2006100800817.html
Bravo with the esp abc rateing. Do you want a medal or a statue. As if I care, since I am not restricted by ratting unlike some others. Get on topic!
The point of freedom of speech it to talk about issues to find the truth, not to use that to attack the person that is trying to talk, but what would you know.

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[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited October 16, 2006).]

quote:

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I agree that America is in serious trouble, with everything going to the lowest common denominator, I wonder what'll happen when the denominator reaches 0?

And if Gandhi was alive today, he'd stage a sit-in.[/B]

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America is EVIL?!? Give me a flying break! The world is FULL of appeasers that hate the US because we stand up against their evils and try to stop the aggressors form taking over the whole world by force. The nations scream for the destruction of America and her allies such as Israel.

The only true danger the US faces is idiots like Clinton or Carter getting their wet grimy hands onto the helm of this very blessed country. They will destroy us if they haven’t set the wheels in motion to do so already with like what they did with Korea. People that follow these morons truly scare me.

Gandhi? Who give a flying road apple about Gandhi? If Jesus came back today, they would try to kill Him again. Gandhi was of this world, he would be hailed as a triumphant hero and king. The Antichrist will be much like Gandhi, but greater, for he is of this world as well.

The people that are doing well are acting more Christian is laz, Brandon, Luke, Steve, and CHEESE which he is not a Christian that acts more Christian than some and some are under 20.

I gave most of my answer to laz about the subject.

Cheese
their is a Chinese saying that if you give a fish you can feed a man for a day, if you teach the person how to fish you help feed them for a lifetime. They don’t see to do that in many parts of the world and its just a money pit, and as you said the dictators get it and many use it for weapons. Schools, hospitals, churches, etc are good since they establish things. They also established working businesses in Africa but when many of the white settlers were forced out and were forced to give it to the Africans they instead of using the businesses to make money they just ripped the building for fire wood which is insane.
Sometimes you have to let things naturally happen so that people learn and to force them to learn when they don’t want to will hurt both and help no one most of the times. For example Muslim countries they think their system is great then why are we giving money, let them figure out that it sucks then they will beg us for help than force food down their throat. Give them information on how to do it but don’t force them to do it in the end.

Brandon
it is bad but when you hear about how bad things in the US is it makes you wonder sometimes how good others have it like Europe of Canada despite this is supposed to be a top country which many indications show that it is not in actuality since its not organized and it gains more debt than makes money. China makes more money than the US, other countries education is far better than the US, homelessness started with the help of US policies, healthcare is free in other countries, its unhealthier to live in the US unlike many other countries, many other 1st world countries beat US in many things, and many 2rd world countries beat us in other things.
I agree with what you say but to say to believe in god doesn’t mean people are acting properly. Everyone means well just like everyone that posted in here but not everyone is posting as kindly as you.

Faith
Funny first comment, but your second comment was better. Did you read the comment about what the priest said about terrorism? That’s doesn’t sound like it hold back but puts more fuel to the fire despite it means well or not. As for N.Korea why should they have nukes? Others have them and if one has the other should have. Who are we to judge who when we have a constitution of the right to bear arms. Many countries that are classified as terrorists have nukes but its ok for them to have since the US "dictates" who and who cant. Many Christian nations can not have nuclear power plans or make their own car since there restrictions by the US, since companies give money and look after their own interests to restrict certain things. You are not Christ to judge who is evil or not and even the Romans thought they were good, Nazis thought they were good guys against the bad, Russians, England, etc but the victor rewrites history to be more presentable. The one with more power looks like the good guy. Even in Australia a mobster that owned the Australia is seems as good guy despite he did every bad thing imaginable to get the power and bribe everyone and if anyone got in his way died. The Romans were considered great and they made roads, made schools, and work, running water, etc and they were considered great by some that worked with them but others didn’t but they still executed Christ. When Russia was around there no how do you say monopoly of ruling powers sine there checks balances in a way. The bible is full of metaphors check into it.

Max
Stop instigating and twisting things. The example in how you reply is proof enough why I didn’t want anyone under 20 to reply lol.

Arch
Did you get it? Restricting information for one side? Does that sound familiar on your end since they don’t want the other side of the story said? Then you want both sides of the story but when you only get one side then what do you know? Or do you want to hear what’s pleasing to you? Go ahead and reply to others that are on topic if you feel better that way.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
The people that are doing well are acting more Christian is laz, Brandon, Luke, Steve, and CHEESE which he is not a Christian that acts more Christian than some and some are under 20.

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QUESTION: How are they acting more Christian?

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quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

Faith
Funny first comment, but your second comment was better. Did you read the comment about what the priest said about terrorism? That’s doesn’t sound like it hold back but puts more fuel to the fire despite it means well or not. As for N.Korea why should they have nukes? Others have them and if one has the other should have. Who are we to judge who when we have a constitution of the right to bear arms. Many countries that are classified as terrorists have nukes but its ok for them to have since the US "dictates" who and who cant. Many Christian nations can not have nuclear power plans or make their own car since there restrictions by the US, since companies give money and look after their own interests to restrict certain things. You are not Christ to judge who is evil or not and even the Romans thought they were good, Nazis thought they were good guys against the bad, Russians, England, etc but the victor rewrites history to be more presentable. The one with more power looks like the good guy. Even in Australia a mobster that owned the Australia is seems as good guy despite he did every bad thing imaginable to get the power and bribe everyone and if anyone got in his way died. The Romans were considered great and they made roads, made schools, and work, running water, etc and they were considered great by some that worked with them but others didn’t but they still executed Christ. When Russia was around there no how do you say monopoly of ruling powers sine there checks balances in a way. The bible is full of metaphors check into it.

---

N. Korea should never have had the opportunity to develop nukes, but thanks to the appeasers™ that is exactly what they have now and now it’s only turned into a intellectual debate… as it sadly has always been. This is the same for Iran, they too are an evil dictatorship that has no right to develop nukes but the appeasers™ think otherwise which means they too will acquire nukes. Because of these developments, which are of no surprise, many more nations are now going to push for the development of nukes. Japan shall have nukes within a year, they will be the 9th country to produce WMD’s of this nature, though Japan I feel is welcome to them in the light of the developing world situation… brought on by the appeasers™ of this world.

The pot calling the kettle black? You may recover your senses if you drop the study of Gandhi™ and other such worldly teachers and pick up your bible to study it from cover to cover, repeatedly and without someone telling you what they think it says. I have all the right in Heaven to Earth to judge! 1 Cor 6:3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more matters of this life?

also, there are no “Christian” nations. There cannot be any Christian nations until Christ returns to rule by taking the seat of David in the flesh. The US has always been an interim government, it was considered the great experiment, the longest ever existing Republic that functions by democracy. This is suppose to be a nation under God, it is welcome to all to assimilate into if they undergo the process of doing so "legally", they do not need to be Christians to come to this country, thus it’s not a Christian country but a country based on principals taught from the bible.

Our real problem is that many people don’t read and believe the bible any longer. Some want to pick and choose what to believe and chock the rest up to metaphors. Most are on different levels, some throw out more of the literal bible than others, but it’s a wide and destructive path nonetheless. Hosea 4:6 My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge. Because you have rejected knowledge, I also will reject you from being priest for Me; Because you have forgotten the law of your God, I also will forget your children.

II Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 16, 2006).]

Once we're done arguing about that question, we can get on to arguing about whether the answer is yes or no, then on to... whatever comes after that.

But I digress.

The United States was at first an isolationist country.
"Trade with all, alliances with none." the Monroe Doctrine states.
This seemed to work quite well(as far as I know), but now that we have all these foreign alliances, Nato, the U.N, Nafta, Cafta, and all that, we are not doing very well.

Korea, Vietnam, Bosnia, Iran, Iraq - Desert Storm, Iraq - Operation Iraqi Freedom, Afghanistan.

North Korea is now a communist state that hates America.
Vietnam is ditto the above.
Iran, who's Shah we(actually that powder puff, Hamas boot licking Jimmy Carter did) betrayed, is now an Islamic terror state that hates us.
Iraq. We didn't do too well in Desert Storm. our next attack went well at first but isn't going well now.
Afghanistan. Still ongoing fighting there, it is now an Islamic state that terrorizes Christians and other religions, like Iraq seems to be becoming.

Not a pretty picture, and those are just a few of the countries on the list that we've tried to help.

Yep, isolationism definitely worked better.

But, let me point something else out.
In WWI and WWII, we halted the war machine of the Kaiser and Hitler, and stopped the Holocaust. That was very generous of us to the world. They aren't a bit grateful. Example of that being France, whose behind we saved , and now they aren't exactly chummy with us.
We also reduced much of Japan, Germany and the rest of the world to rubble(we and our allies and the enemy, that is).

We then helped countries like Japan and Germany grow back into major powers.
We failed to stop the Soviet's from taking over most of Eastern Europe, thanks in part to all the communists in our government(at least that's what I've read).

Because of that we spent decades in a cold war.
Our much beloved President Kennedy then kicked off the Cuba disaster, starting with his Bay of Pigs incident, yet another betrayal, this time of the Cuban rebels we were supporting to oust Castro.

Guess what? Castro is still alive, Cuba is a marxist state that hates us...

IMHO the foreign aid we give out just takes away the incentive for those countries to fix their economies on their own.

Africa, very bad Aids problem. The U.S probably spends a bundle every year for drugs to treat the disease in that country. Whether that is constitutionally legal or not is debateable, but it's a very humane gesture on our part.

We help and help, and the world hates us more. But hey, if you actually read all the depressing stuff above, there is a ray of hope:
Missionaries in arab muslim countries are having quite a few converts.
There are many young people in the U.S who are becoming Christians.

And I forgot to mention something. Everything in the above post can and will be disputed by people of different opinions. Hopefully we won't flame anyone for that since much of what is up there is what I've read and heard.
(and hopefully I won't get flamed for this either)

It ain't set in stone, but I'm pretty sure most of it is accurate.

Lazarus

Back to Africa - why is there so little food? Would they be okay once they got farms started? Or does the local warlord collect all the food? It'd be great to see big fields of wheat popping up over there. Maybe we could carpet-bomb the savannah with genetically-engineered super-crops. You probably know a lot more about this than I do; fill me in on what I'm missing!

To Faith Warrior: What do you dislike about Gandhi, and how do you compare him to the Anti-Christ?

To Lazarus: Isolating your country is fine, but it's hard to ignore airplanes being crashed into your stuff. And that still leaves the innocent foreigners screwed.

As for the terrorist attacks on our country, I've got no problem with our government hunting down that scum. It's about time we showed some spine.

Lazarus

OH WAIT IM AN ATHEIST ME DONT HAVE MORALS DUR DUR DUR :P

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 16, 2006).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lazarus:
Faithwarrior, is it the U.S's job to police the world, to regulate who does and doesn't have nukes, to give millions to all the poor nations(which has not helped many that I have seen, really), to impose economic sanctions on countries that don't bow to our will and to invade countries with no real reason or with manufactured reasons?

Once we're done arguing about that question, we can get on to arguing about whether the answer is yes or no, then on to... whatever comes after that.

But I digress.

---

I’ll digress too… haha

Yes, when there are suicide missions to taxi passenger liners into big buildings, yes.
Did this come out of the blue? No! In the case of the WTC it was attacked previously under the watch of king© appeaser™ Billy-bob Clint®n. What did he do about it? Appease™ the terrorists and appease™ the citizens of this nation. Now we paid the price for that lack of resolve in 2001 with the loss of many lives. Clinton has blood on his hands.

The world has gone global, it’s nothing like the previous generation where you could not take down buildings or entire cities with an aircraft by either slamming into the target or simply pushing a button in transit that will unleash the force of a nuclear warhead. So yes, there must be some way to regulate who may be capable of carrying out such an act at least in regards to possessing or producing nuclear weapons.

How has this been done? Nonproliferation treaty. But this is a solution that is currently breaking down. Such a measure requires support not of just the US but member nations that agree with us which is becoming slim to none due to appeasement™. Every action has a reaction and the reaction is simply that every nation or organization capable of acquiring such weapons or making them shall do so.

Is the US the world police force? Well we certainly are required to protect our interests which is primarily the defense of this country which is become a global job due to advanced technology to deliver such weapons in one form or another. In such a situation it requires making friends with countries in key geographical positions which is often in counterbalance with those nations only focused on doing evil. Sadly, less countries are willing to stay the course to help manage such threats so we see such support (beyond worthless words) deteriorating in place of ideas of appeasement™. So we are left to pick our battles if to only stem the tide as best we can among we who are left willing to stand up and do so.

We send our money/supplies to fed and warm the nations, such as the appeasement™ deal struck by Jimbo Carter, but once the N. Korean nuclear scientists ate the food and used the heating oil to warm themselves, they continued the development of nuclear weapons to use against others and probably against their own. How can one not police such an action when they are capable of attaching such a device to a missile and hit the US or Japan in due time? With the many threats thrown out by Kim Jong-il [the mad] (puppet of China) is he not capable of doing so? Or shall we appease™ and hope that all men are good in that such a terrible thing may never happen. Well, when Jesus comes back, he will rule with an iron rod, not because everyone will want to play nice and do what they are told, but because some will need to get whacked to stay in line.

The only “manufacturing” I’m seeing done is the manufacturing of nuclear weapons by madmen that would enjoy to kill most every human being on this planet starting with us. It’s a threat that must be taken care of now, not appeased™ and left to fester.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 16, 2006).]

quote:

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Max
Stop instigating and twisting things. The example in how you reply is proof enough why I didn’t want anyone under 20 to reply lol.

Arch
Did you get it? Restricting information for one side? Does that sound familiar on your end since they don’t want the other side of the story said? Then you want both sides of the story but when you only get one side then what do you know? Or do you want to hear what’s pleasing to you? Go ahead and reply to others that are on topic if you feel better that way.

---

... do you honestly think before you type out your posts? or is your entire presence here some large satire of the hypocrisy and ignorance of humanity?

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
If Gandhi was alive today he would fail.

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No! He would be in this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2BlNxKQQR4

------------------

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

But it's all in the name of democracy. America isn't a democracy neither is Britain. Just try and talk about God in the street or at school and watch "political correctness" in action. We don't have "freedom of speech" we have the freedom to repeat what the government wants us to repeat. We're brainwashed by the media and get told exactly what they want us to know.

Ghandi would fail today.

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

Freedom through Military Victory is a throughly Biblical concept.

(As is punishment/consequence for criminal activity.)

[This message has been edited by netcog (edited October 17, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by netcog:
"Turn the other cheek" was more in reference to interactions between individual people. It was not in reference to macro interactions between nations, although it can be applied there. (Nor was it in reference to punishment and consequence of criminal activity.)

Freedom through Military Victory is a throughly Biblical concept.

(As is punishment/consequence for criminal activity.)

[This message has been edited by netcog (edited October 17, 2006).]

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In the OT maybe. I don't see Jesus telling His disciples to smite the Romans, even though they occupied them, or to rise up against them. Thats what they wanted and expected, but Jesus came as the "Prince of Peace" and was the peacemaker. The word christian means to be christ-like, so show me where Jesus says go to war? thanks.

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

quote:

---

Originally posted by D-SIPL:
In the OT maybe. I don't see Jesus telling His disciples to smite the Romans, even though they occupied them, or to rise up against them. Thats what they wanted and expected, but Jesus came as the "Prince of Peace" and was the peacemaker. The word christian means to be christ-like, so show me where Jesus says go to war? thanks.

---

Actually I'd like you to show me where Christ abolished armies, weapons, or reduced the criminal justice system to one of total *earthly* 'grace'.

Jesus didn't tell Peter(?) to get rid of his sword. He told him to put it away.
He (or the Bible) says "live by sword, die by sword" - it doesn't tell "not" to live by sword.

The OT was not abolished by Christ's Coming. It was fulfilled.

quote:

---

Originally posted by D-SIPL:
It's an interesting thing war. It baffles me that even on a predominatly christian site is filled with people who back war. I must have missed the section where Jesus says if someone attacks you to attack them back, or this bit where he says that vengeance is ours not the Lords. Or he section that says repay evil with evil??? Ahh right yeh becuase it's not there. For a country thats run by a "christian" his decisions are slightly confusing? misguided?

But it's all in the name of democracy. America isn't a democracy neither is Britain. Just try and talk about God in the street or at school and watch "political correctness" in action. We don't have "freedom of speech" we have the freedom to repeat what the government wants us to repeat. We're brainwashed by the media and get told exactly what they want us to know.

Ghandi would fail today.

---

It’s funny how the groups you pointed out, the anti-war crowd (indirectly) and the crowd that wants to remove all references to God, often are the same crowd. I happen to be anti-war, I don’t desire war what so ever, but there is a point where you must do what you must do to protect others from the aggressor and to protect yourself as well. In some cases to even lay ones life down to protect others from such an aggressor.

Yes, I take the whole bible into consideration in regards to my decision making, because Jesus of the NT is the same God of the OT and He never changes. He may deal with mankind differently at different times, some call these dispensations, but who He is has never changed. Though we may claim victory in a righteous war, it is He who ordains it, it is His vengeance and He often uses humans to carry out His vengeance if He wills it.

He never told us to lay down our weapons, but quite the opposite, but not to live by it of course. During His ministry on Earth, some looked to Him to overthrow the Roman Empire, but that was not His purpose at the time. His disciples had no need to use the sword, Jesus had an army of angles at His beckon to protect them. But this would change once He left, Luke 22:36 “He said to them, But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one”. One must keep time lines in perspective when studying the bible, it’s too easy to lump it all together and get a different message.

Also another good point, when Jesus said to turn the other cheek, this is not simply a metaphor. When someone strikes a person on the cheek and that person turns the other cheek, it is to evade being a target. So, if someone strikes with one hand the left cheek, if that person turns their right cheek they evade the same attack happening again. In such a case the attacker would need to change position or change hands to attack again (and much can happen in such a given time). You don’t simply walk into an attack, you must use your head and resist the attacker. He didn’t say offer the same cheek, did he? No! He said reposition yourself so you don’t receive that same attack repeatedly. The attacker cannot physically repeat his same attack in this case, it’s easily visualized and easily applied.

As I said, not to live by the sword of course. This does not mean not to use the sword when one must. If one is to live by the sword and to die by the sword, who is the person that wields the sword against the one that lives by the sword? It is the one that lives by the sword, the one that kills that one by a sword is not necessarily one that lives by the sword as well. The one that lives by the sword does just that, it is their means by which they provide for themselves. They do so to plunder the resources of others or to enslave those that are conquered by their sword. It’s not for the good of those that they conquer in any way, but only for their own gain and even amusement. This is not how the gospel is to be spread, there is no mandate to “convert or die” as another religion teaches. There is no mandate to Jihad and there is no mandate to kill those that will not accept the gospel. To do so would be to live by the sword thus the repercussion is to die by the sword, when God mandates it to be done.

As I’ve pointed out though, appeasement is erroneous. Appeasement is contrary to scripture at its core. Resistance is acceptable, it is not un-Christian to protect others and to protect yourself by what ever means at ones disposal depending on the situation. To barter with the aggressor is not turning the other cheek but offering the same cheek. This is the problem with our nation, we are loosing focus on biblical values and the desire to protect others from the aggressor. The scriptures have been watered down as if it were a letter of the law and not for the heart to be written upon. It is a lukewarm position at best. Jesus said they would hate you because they hated Him first, you cannot appease that, and you cannot appease every battle of your life.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 17, 2006).]

Lava
If you don’t notice it then maybe you should pay more attention to them.

Faith
This is not appeasement. You say N. Korea should not have the opportunity but so should the US and other nations not have the opportunity to make it. The point of a nuke it to wave it around and show it off like a gun to get leverage. If you are going to a gun fight you bring a gun, but still no one should have had a nuke in the first place and now that some do then everyone should have so not to be bossed around. Look at it metaphorically and you most likely will find a common ground. Who are you to call another country bad or good since even that would make you no better than a north Korean saying the same thing about US, Romans saying the same thing about non roman nations, etc. That is your opinion and to force or dictate an independent country to not dictate its own laws is hypocritical. There are many nations have been hurt by others that think that say way. Even Serbia is a Christian nation and the US bombed it to the Stone Age to that they can bring terrorist Muslim in while everyone listened to the one sides view in the US which it was all well presented BS.

US has no business policing anyone and the founding fathers and other presidents said it is treasonous to favor a country and deal with others. So we have the foundation of the US and the majority of the world against US. We are on one leg and we only want to see what we say than what it really is, which makes us no better than anyone else and its sad we only see it one way. We have to look at the aftermath of the actions and things are not bettering better but worse in the road that has been chosen. If you want to side with Christ then do what the bible says about this since Christ is not forcing others what to do. And yes there are Christian nations and some more than others since some place Christianity first and the government second or have it as on but this is new concept to people in the US and is appalling to some which is not endorsed. As for this country George Washington said that to be a better American and for America to work best is for people to be Christians, but now they don’t say that and separate Christianity from the main stream.

And how you do know that that would quoted form the bible doesn’t apply to you since it just as much applies to you are to anyone else. Even the bible says not to interpreter the bible by your self and that goes against God and many go against the churches that Christ and the apostles made. But people want to see it their own side than be humble to question things.

As for your second comment I answered the others about it. But again the founding fathers were again the US having allies for many reasons. Maybe I should have said if the founding fathers were around they would fail lol.

Laz
Very well said.
Yeah it’s not the US’s job to police the world since even the police have internal affairs to police the police which we don’t have that. If the US was a company it would be worse than Enron since it is loosing more money and many take from the top and give to other companies than help their own company. You say N. Korea hates America but its not that they only do not like US but the majority of the world but no one can do anything since US has nukes, spends trillions on WMD, and it can not be invaded by land like France entering Spain.

Don’t forget the other 14 wars about after WW2 that didn’t just kept causing problems. Even the US went against Korea before but they still didn’t stop communism before. Even when the US gave the Muslims a democracy they voted for the same type of government that the US took out. Other countries are not allowed to self govern and when they have an election and the US doesn’t like who they chose the US puts sanction on what the people want in their own country which is INSANE! Lol
Other points you made are as you said what you read in what is presented but others disagree and show that things gotten worse in every aspects during and after the world wars since more deaths, more oppression, and the same types of government but worse. Even Japan says that they were pushed by the US to go to war which evidence shows that is true due to the sanctions imposed after WW1. Pat Buchanan has a lot to say about that but he is another topic all together. Lol

Cheese
In Africa the US aid gives food but that gets stolen and Africans sell the food lol. The Country is backwards and to even open up a business it takes years, a lot of money, and a lot of bribing. Unlike china which only takes 1 day which even a foreigner can do it and open up a shop. John Stossle form 20/20 talked about it in more details. More oppression in Africa means more sympathy, and that means more money coming in which the government knows that and takes the money and brings more oppression to get more money which is an endless cycle. Bill gates gave 50billion more problems than help despite that he and others meant well.

As for what you said to Laz, its not isolation that did that since no one wants to pick a fight, but its US non isolation that did that and their money being to put fuel to the fire all over the world. If the US wants to take vengeance for 911 then they should remember the bible when Christ said that vengeance is his, but if they want to stop that from happening again then they should look within themselves since. To mean well and do well are 2 different things. Who knows one say you might be a Christian or at least act more like one. Lol Some non Christians do act more Christian than Christians.

Arch
Are you a DJ to twist the turntable? Come on I gave you example so there is not contradiction, but it’s just that you want to see things negative to attack. The point I said that was because people get off topic as they showed and that hinders free speech which you distorted the meaning of it just now.

Dsipl
Interesting and very well said. Is that really you since I get the feeling that you said the opposite kind of view in another post, or was that another moderator? hmmmm

Netcog
I agree with dsipl, are you referring to the old or New Testament of military victory? Since that seems more of the old and not of the new in that concept. If you live by the sword you will only that get and not God, does the bible have to tell you to breathe in and out as well or will some hold their breath and die. You are misinterpreting the bible and that is far worse that any nuke held by any country. The NT trumps the OT, and it is scary that some people think what you say, but o well. It’s a shame.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

Lava
If you don’t notice it then maybe you should pay more attention to them.

---

Hmm, still didn't answer my question

Come on I can take a hit, try me.

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 17, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by CheeseStorm:
"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ." - Gandhi (strikes from beyond the grave)

---

That's because he did not know Christ, he did not know scripture, he had a lump of scripture and made his decision rather than answering the call of Christ to become a Christian; to become born-again. He hated Christians because he hated Christ first. The Christ he saw was of his own making for he did not know Christ. He was anti-Christ and of this world. The world loves him, they shall also love the true AntiChrist to come, even more so. Gandhi would not fail, for he was of the world, and the world loves him.

quote:

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Early in his life, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi had been reading the Bible to keep a promise he had made to a friend. He found the Old Testament extremely difficult going. He disliked the Book of Numbers. But the New Testament produced a different impression, especially the Sermon on the Mount which went straight to his heart. The verses about not resisting evil but offering the other cheek and giving the cloak to one who asked for one's coat delighted him beyond measure. They reminded him about something he had learned in his childhood about returning with gladness good for evil done.

"I did once seriously think of embracing the Christian faith," Gandhi told Millie Polak, the wife of one of his earliest disciples. "The gentle figure of Christ, so patient, so kind, so loving, so full of forgiveness that he taught his followers not to retailate when abused or struck, but to turn the other cheek, I thought it was a beautiful example of the perfect man..."

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:

Faith... etc.

---

Re: Paragraph 2
Remember France? Washington was quite willing to accept France’s help, wasn’t he…?! You seem to have misconstrued the whole understanding of the matter. In the case of paragraph one part two I do believe both Washington and myself would agree that Clinton should have been deposed and then brought up on serious charges. Washington was opposed to the US in getting into the affairs of Europe, and with good reason. He would have not applied that position to events such as WWII. And did we not go to war in Tripoli shortly after the US was formed? Oh no, more foreign affairs that Washington was “supposedly” against. Enemies foreign and domestic are to be dealt with, not appeased with.

Re: Paragraph 3
You make no sense at this point. Have references? You’re falling apart, Lad.

quote:

---

Originally posted by CheeseStorm:
O_o Gandhi loved Christ's teachings, but didn't think Christ was God. I don't know where you're getting all this hate stuff from.

Early in his life, Mohandas Karamchand Gandhi had been reading the Bible to keep a promise he had made to a friend. He found the Old Testament extremely difficult going. He disliked the Book of Numbers. But the New Testament produced a different impression, especially the Sermon on the Mount which went straight to his heart. The verses about not resisting evil but offering the other cheek and giving the cloak to one who asked for one's coat delighted him beyond measure. They reminded him about something he had learned in his childhood about returning with gladness good for evil done.

"I did once seriously think of embracing the Christian faith," Gandhi told Millie Polak, the wife of one of his earliest disciples. "The gentle figure of Christ, so patient, so kind, so loving, so full of forgiveness that he taught his followers not to retailate when abused or struck, but to turn the other cheek, I thought it was a beautiful example of the perfect man..."

Yep, that's quite the Anti-Christ. Come to think of it, the world loves Einstein and his contributions, guess he must've been another worldly addiction.

---

John 15:18 "If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first.”

Gandhi didn’t like Christians because he didn’t like the true God of the bible, first.
There are many levels of hate, but they all add up to the same root meaning which is rejecting or disliking of a thing or person.

Einstein is different case, he was not a leader that people followed. Lets keep this discussion in context, please.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 17, 2006).]

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by LAVA:
QUESTION: How are they acting more Christian?

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We said a few Hail Mary's before posting, I guess...

Laz

Ah yes, and I would like to point out how Warsong never ever tries to see anyone elses point of view. He even tries to keep people who point out his glaring errors from posting! How funny!

Ah yes, well, from the mouths of babes come some of the best advice you'll ever hear. Meaning from younger people. Younger people often see things that old fogeys like Warsong miss.

I can't wait till April! Then I can begin posting again cus I'll be 20!

:: Max proceeds to fill this post with as much sarcasm as is possible ::

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

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Originally posted by max:
Younger people often see things that old fogeys like Warsong miss.

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quote:

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I personally think that Ghandi's ideals were good, but not realistic in most senses. People with guns wont put the guns down because you say you're a pacifist. They'll just shoot you.

---

hmmm... I'm intriguied by your theory, faith. Makes sense. I've always wondered where the number 20 came from. seemed kinda random.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
[QUOTE]hmmm... I'm intriguied by your theory, faith. Makes sense. I've always wondered where the number 20 came from. seemed kinda random.

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meh. works for me.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

...do I get banned for this?

Laz

[This message has been edited by coolj (edited October 18, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
Bachelor of Science?

meh. works for me.

---

do you have to make a joke of everything?...he obviously ment the other B S - Barbara Striesand - but friends just call her 'Babs'.

in the words of Eric Cartman..."[darn] your black heart, barbara striesand"

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

------------------
To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
Anyone was welcomed to reply but many have failed.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
Instead of talking the talk most did not walk the walk to show that some people are not acting proper and derail topics despite them wanting to be taken serious.

---

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:

The ones that generally stayed on topic were serious people in a way and acted proper, and they prove to themselves with actions and not words and they deserve to post since those comments don’t apply to them or affect them.

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Thank you for answering my question

Now I have one more.

QUESTION: What should people do when you post a flaming topic and if they reply they are branded ignorant or taking your words out of context?

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 19, 2006).]

quote:

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Posted by ArchAngel
I've always wondered where the number 20 came from

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Probably the same place every other number came from, don't you think?

(I love taking parts of posts out of context)

Laz

quote:

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Originally posted by LAVA:
QUESTION: What should people do when you post a flaming topic and if they reply they are branded ignorant or taking your words out of context?

---

In sporting events in Japan they don’t seem to go berserk like others to destroy a stadium, curse, throw things, etc if they don’t like the outcome of a game. They are acting civilized. Just because people do not get it, don't agree, or don't want to hear about it doesn’t mean they are holier and that what they think is right should be done, and if they can’t get their way they attack and "flame" as you say.

Just like what I said to arch in what freedom of speech is, which is not to attack the person but the points made to find the truth. Freedom of speech was not made for the extreme liberals in today’s society where it only applies to the entertainment industry to have improper things and to attack someone they don’t like or don’t like the message, but the opposite. It is to have the freedom to be encouraged to disagree with information to back them up to find the truth and not to spread lies.

Well its good that no name calling is made or telling others not to listen to someone because they don’t agree which sometimes people do that here but you see that mostly in predominantly secular forums. Try it out and see in a Christian conservative forum to a non-Christian liberal forum what type of replies you get and it will look like day and night in the replies you get. Some non Christians like cheese act more Christian in values than max but that’s my opinion even though max will disagree despite his attack of freedom of speech in the other posts while others didn’t act like him and went on their way replying and ignoring the protestors like max for example. I have nothing against the guy and the guy means well like everyone else but his actions speak louder than words despite him disagreeing since he will not apologies for his action since he feels he is right and I wont even bother trying to explain and give it to someone that is better than me to explain to him. Obviously he is not the only one and a few act like this which is why I put that security remark about age to weed out some people. Just because you failed doesn’t mean you can’t act better next time, but at least your replies gotten better. :-)

You don't see Brandon, Simon, Jari, and Han go ballistic and flames do you? I didn't see eye to eye with Brandon and Simon on some long harshly disagreements in the posts but the talk went civilized and no flaming. Obviously others also act like them but they seem to stick out the most in what I remember.

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"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited October 19, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
In sporting events in Japan they don’t seem to go berserk like others to destroy a stadium, curse, throw things, etc if they don’t like the outcome of a game. They are acting civilized. Just because people do not get it, don't agree, or don't want to hear about it doesn’t mean they are holier and that what they think is right should be done, and if they can’t get their way they attack and "flame" as you say.

Just like what I said to arch in what freedom of speech is, which is not to attack the person but the points made to find the truth. Freedom of speech was not made for the extreme liberals in today’s society where it only applies to the entertainment industry to have improper things and to attack someone they don’t like or don’t like the message, but the opposite. It is to have the freedom to be encouraged to disagree with information to back them up to find the truth and not to spread lies.

Well its good that no name calling is made or telling others not to listen to someone because they don’t agree which sometimes people do that here but you see that mostly in predominantly secular forums. Try it out and see in a Christian conservative forum to a non-Christian liberal forum what type of replies you get and it will look like day and night in the replies you get. Some non Christians like cheese act more Christian in values than max but that’s my opinion even though max will disagree despite his attack of freedom of speech in the other posts while others didn’t act like him and went on their way replying and ignoring the protestors like max for example. I have nothing against the guy and the guy means well like everyone else but his actions speak louder than words despite him disagreeing since he will not apologies for his action since he feels he is right and I wont even bother trying to explain and give it to someone that is better than me to explain to him. Obviously he is not the only one and a few act like this which is why I put that security remark about age to weed out some people. Just because you failed doesn’t mean you can’t act better next time, but at least your replies gotten better. :-)

You don't see Brandon, Simon, Jari, and Han go ballistic and flames do you? I didn't see eye to eye with Brandon and Simon on some long harshly disagreements in the posts but the talk went civilized and no flaming. Obviously others also act like them but they seem to stick out the most in what I remember.

---

I don't think you understood my question. This isn't about Arch or Max or whoever. This is about *your* behavior.

quote:

---

Originally posted by LAVA:

QUESTION: What should people do when YOU post a flaming topic and if they reply they are branded ignorant or taking YOUR words out of context?

---

See the question? YOU flame people first, you post threads to anti-semtic propagana, say it's Christian to be anti-semtic, and say that people are babies if they disagree with you (if you want the qoutes I'll get them for you).

I garuntee you, if I was argue with your post in a civilized matter, point for point, you would come out and say I was "ignorant", "didn't want to hear the truth", "took your words out of context" or something else. I garuntee it. Why? Because I have seen it happen to other people on this board. Prove me wrong, prove me wrong.

So my question is, why bothering arguing with YOU? You, as in Warsong, not ArchAngel, not Max, and not whoever else.

------------------

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 19, 2006).]

Also when things go off topic it should be dealt with off topic, don't you think?

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
Give me an example.
The word ignorant means lack of information on the subject matter or unaware of the other information. Are you telling me they are aware and they intentionally play devils advocate?
http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=ignorant

Also when things go off topic it should be dealt with off topic, don't you think?

---

*Sigh*, it seems like you cant get off of attacking other people and responding to the matter at hand. It's ok, you can go play, I rest my case.

------------------

Laz

As I stated an example that Brandon and Simon disagreed with me more than anyone else but we didn’t have problems or flames. They say one side and I show the other side, so what's the problem? I even commend Simon for knowing a lot more than most here but I still tell him I disagree and that I say he is wrong just like you think I am wrong.

When people assume and go off topic and attack and say illogical things without backing it up in no way then they are just flaming the post and are ignorant. When they "persist" to assume what I meant in a negative way without rectifying like you have with your antisemitic comment then you are wrong. I say the news and if people want to attack the messenger and say things that are not true and silly or that they don’t understand then what do you want me to do? Explain even though they don’t want to understand? Do you feel you are right always just because you think so? Did anyone curse or insult to hurt the other ones feelings intentionally? Some people are more sensitive, and the saying somewhat goes we can please some people some times, but can't please all the time all the time.

You have seen what you have assumed. I say something and sometimes people take it another way to mean something else. The point is how to get to the truth. Then what you will complain since I am blunt? I don’t insult anyone despite you might feel scared or insulted even though I don’t think of the other that way. Are you upset that you were not on the list of people I said were acting proper in the post? My posts are doom and gloom backed up with news and from news sources and if people want to dispute the facts and don’t want to listen then that is not my fault if some do not agree that 1+1=2.

You are arguing and did things that you describe happen? lol

Laz
Would you prefer proper? lol

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

------------------

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 19, 2006).]

How bout teenager. That's what I act like.

Btw Warsong, do you realize that you are pretty insulting to some people?
I'm not sure whether you do.

Laz

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lazarus:
Btw Warsong, do you realize that you are pretty insulting to some people?
I'm not sure whether you do.

---

It's all in the name of Truth, Justice and the American Way!

------------------

quote:

---

Originally posted by Lazarus:
Hmm, serious and proper don't work.

How bout teenager. That's what I act like.

Btw Warsong, do you realize that you are pretty insulting to some people?
I'm not sure whether you do.

Laz

---

Yes I agree, you act strange at times. Lol And what do you bring up your father all the time saying I act like him? What kind of a guy is he... bad good?

Me insulting? hmmmm I don't think bad or insult other, I just say how I see it. I am being honest, but I guess the saying are wrong since maybe honestly is not the best policy, the truth can't set you free. In society people want or need to be lied to, they need things candy coated. There is a different between insulting like mocking and honesty like caring but many find honesty insulting. Even Christ was honest and he got attacked, and I am being honest and I am being attacked. So no one has been intentionally attacked or insulted.

Lava if you want to be sarcastic and it makes you feel better by doing it knowingly out of spite then he aren’t you being bad or worse that what you are arguing about which even the bible mentions?

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

---

Originally posted by LAVA:
[B] See the question? YOU flame people first, you post threads to anti-semtic propagana, say it's Christian to be anti-semtic, and say that people are babies if they disagree with you (if you want the qoutes I'll get them for you).

---

1. you don't know me
2. you've never seen any of my actions!!
3. you've only seen my words
4. I gave up trying to respond to you seriously because I know you won't listen or consider it, you will simply flame me and such.
5. You are going to flame me for this.
6. I'll apologize, I'm not too big to apologize, thing is, I have no idea what I am apologizing for! I can't think of anything I've done other than to try and point out to people that you don't listen. If you consider the truth to be too much to handle, then I apologize.

Laz - Being proper is good, scores big points with people in power.

Lava - man, he doesn't get it does he?

------------------
To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

---

I'll apologize, I'm not too big to apologize, thing is, I have no idea what I am apologizing for!

---

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

---

Originally posted by ArchAngel:
psh, it's all about the savages. we eat our steaks raw, and have unbridled horsepower on our muscle cars. We don't hide behind a hypocritical disguise of civility, driving those priuses and eating tofu burgers.

---

Yeaaaahhh, almost makes me wanna grow a Mullet... almost.
Mmmm... med-rare steak and cajun pork rinds w/ bean dip!

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
Yes I agree, you act strange at times. Lol And what do you bring up your father all the time saying I act like him? What kind of a guy is he... bad good?

Me insulting? hmmmm I don't think bad or insult other, I just say how I see it. I am being honest, but I guess the saying are wrong since maybe honestly is not the best policy, the truth can't set you free. In society people want or need to be lied to, they need things candy coated. There is a different between insulting like mocking and honesty like caring but many find honesty insulting. Even Christ was honest and he got attacked, and I am being honest and I am being attacked. So no one has been intentionally attacked or insulted.

Lava if you want to be sarcastic and it makes you feel better by doing it knowingly out of spite then he aren’t you being bad or worse that what you are arguing about which even the bible mentions?

---

He's a good guy but I don't always agree with him.
(As the topic descends further into chaos and flaming and sarcasm and jokes and... )

Guys guys guys... We keep this up and CCN will lose it's status as a Christian forum!

Laz

First, the terrible truth about most "Jews" They are actually Khazars, Turkish people of the old Khazar empire that converted to Judaism.

Most stunningly of all, the Bolshevik revolution in Russia was planned and carried out mostly by Jews of this type, supported by the Rothschilds.

The Jewish Chronicle, April 4, 1919 states:
"There is much in the fact of Bolshevism itself that so many Jews are Bolshevists, in the fact that the ideals of Bolshevism at many points are consonant with the finest ideals of Judaism."

Has anyone ever heard of the "Revolutionary Catechism" ?

Note also that the Rothschilds are ardent Talmudists, whose religion taught nothing but contempt for those stupid 'goy' (Human cattle) who were not part of the 'chosen' Jewish race.

Woodrow Wilson, that betrayer of America and pawn of the Illuminati.
Upon being reelected under the slogan "He kept us out of war", he asked Congress to declare war on Germany only a few days later, and they complied.
His "handler" was Colonel Edward Mandell House, whose family was a supporter of Zionism. His middle name in fact was taken from that of a Jewish merchant friend of the family.
House was the one that communicated the Illuminati's orders to Wilson, their puppet, elected on their money.

The Rothschilds and their International Banker elite caused WWI to be a great bloodbath, which decimated countries and bankrupted many states, because it allowed them to take control by lending money to those countries to rebuild.
They were in direct control of many of the governments on both sides and used their influence to change the outcome of battles in order to prolong the conflict, and thus the destruction and loss of lives.

Arthur Ponsonby(a member of British Parliamnent) wrote in his book 'Falsehood in Wartime' that there must have more deliberate lying in the world from 1914 to 1918 than in any other period in world history.

The Treaty of Versailles that the Rothschilds forced upon the world after the war was designed so that the end of the war was merely a break in hostilities. The conditions imposed on Germany were such that the outbreak of another war was a certainty.

Now for one of the most shocking and incredible right wing conspiracy theories of them all!

But before I get to that, FDR. This scummy little pawn of the International Money Monopolists actually was elected after charging his opponent Herbert Hoover was allegedly associated with the international bankers!
The American people usually get the impression Franklin Delanor Roosevelt was a good guy and a great President. All propoganda.

At the annual American Press Association dinner in 1914, John Swinton, editor of the New York News, said this:
"There is no such thing as an independent press in America. Not a man among you dares to offer his honest opinion. We are the tools and vassals of the rich behind the scene. We are marionettes. These men pull the strings and we dance. Our time, our talents, and our lives are all the property of these men. We are intellectual prostitutes."

The truth hurts, doesn't it? Stuff like this isn't seen on the front page of the Times, for good reason!

I won't go into all the details of a Rabbi Wise, a Zionist and worker behind the scenes of the day, but he said this in his book about FDR:
"one of America's greatest human resources in 1940."
The 'Boys' were obviously pleased with the 'services' rendered by their humble servant!

Congressman Hamilton Fish wrote about FDR in his book:
"FDR's prowar policy was like the bird who feigns to have a broken wing in order to decoy the enemy from destroying its nest and fledglings. He publicly pursued a policy of guile and subterfuge. He proclaimed his love of peace and hated of war, but war was in his mind."

He sent Japan an ultimatum forcing them to declare war on us, which they desperately wanted to avoid. This ultimatum was hidden from Congress until after Pearl Harbor and the declaration of war.

In 1943, while WWII was raging, a Commander Earl was FDR's naval attache in Istanbul.
One morning he received a visit from Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the German SS.
Canaris told Earle that the Soviet army was the real threat in the war(which later turned out to be so true, Eastern Europe completely subjugated), and also this:
That the Germans would agree to an honorable surrender to the American Forces and then help them defeat the Soviet onslaught into Europe.
Fritz von Papen, the German ambassador, also met with Earle and told him the same thing.
After Earle communicated this to FDR, no reply came for weeks, and months.
He sent it again finally.
FDR ignored it. The 'Boys' didn't want that! They wanted the war prolonged, the Soviets to overrun Europe and the other countries to get even deeper in debt to them. And that is precisely what happened.
Earle was disgusted by the deception and treachery and went back to the U.S

Admiral Canaris was caught by Hitler when they were plotting to kill him to end the war.
I would bet that it was through the Rothschilds that Hitler discovered the plot.
For his brave and humane actions, Canaris was hanged with an iron collar around his neck. It took 30 minutes for him to die.
Many other of the anti-Nazi leaders were hanged or shot.
Colonel Curtis B. Dall, FDR's son-in-law, was aware of all these events and wrote about them in his book. He also said that his relationship with FDR and his wife changed as he saw them corrupted by the power elite controlling them.

Next, we have the story of how communistic influence held sway over the U.S, how presses to print U.S money were actually shipped to Russia, how the transfer of stolen nuclear secrets to Russia was oversaw by people like Harry Hopkins, FDR's assistant and a communist plant.

George Racey Jordan wrote a book in which he catalogued the whole sordid story of Lend-Lease to Russia.

On January 1, 1943, a memorandum was sent to the Commanding General, Air Service Command which stated that
"The President has direct that equipment and movement of Russian planes have been given front priority, even over planes for the U.S Army Air Forces."

During the four years Lend-Lease operated, we sent a total of 9.6 Billion dollars worth of aid to Russia!

Now on to the tragedy of wartime. The city of Hamburg was hit by such a heavy attack of Allied bombers, with incendiary and high-explosive bombs, that the figures for the devastating were
40,000 CIVILIANS dead, including 5000 CHILDREN!
250,000 HOUSES destroyed, about half the city!
Over a million made homeless by the attacks.

Dresden:
Dresden was a great city. The Alstadt district was full of magnificent buildings, including palaces, art galleries, museums and churches. There weren't and couldn't have been any munition factories or industries of any kind in that part of the city.

On February 13, 1945, while the city was swollen to a population of 1 million by 400,000 refugees, mainly women and children, Allied bombers attacked.
Alstadt was the primary target. A two thousand, one hundred and fifty plane assault was launched. When it was over, Alstadt was in total ruins, all it's buildings destroyed. Half the buildings in the greater Dresden area were demolished, and about 250,000 of the unfortunate residents and refugees were incinerated in the ruins.

Why did this attack take place? According to Air Marshal Sir Arthur Harris, the top man in the British Air Force:
"I can only say, that the attack on Dresden was at the time considered a military necessity, by much more important people than myself."

Now on to Japan.
After the disastrous Battle of Leyte, something strange happened.
On March 1945, the Japanese unconditionally surrendered. Yes, March 1945!
Washington ignored the offer!
Later they said that they'd had difficulty interpreting the Japanese message.
Amazing! They were able to break the Japanese Blue and Purple(diplo and naval) codes, but unable to read and understand a short message written in plain Japanese!

Why? Because the Japanese home islands hadn't been destroyed yet. The Illuminati's Urban Renewal plans hadn't been completed yet.
Those old archaic cities had to be leveled. Those old factories, railroads, port facilities, communication networks and the national way of life had to be bulldozed into oblivion by the specially designed demolition equipment purchased by the American taxpayer. B-29 bombers, to be precise.

The late Professor Quigley said in Tragedy and Hope that
'The big planes engaged in the systematic destruction of all Japanese cities. The flimsy houses of those crowded urban areas made them very vulnerable to incendiary bombs. On March 9th, 1945, the Air Force removed the defensive weaponry from the bombers(to make them able to carry more bombs) and a low level attack with 1900 tons of fire bombs was carried out on Tokyo.
Sixteen square miles of central Tokyo was burned out, 250,000 homes destroyed, over a million made homeless and 84,993 killed.
Nagoya was hit and decimated by a similar attack two days later.

Shortly after the war, vast sums of money became available for the reconstruction of Japan.
The money to build and equip Japan's new industrial plants, ports, railroads, warehouses and skyscrapers came from outside Japan.
It came from the International Bankers + the Jewish Rothschilds. They put up the money, they own the show.

As Benjamin Disraeli once wrote
And so you see... the world is governed by very different personages than is imagined by those who are not behind the scenes."

Now on to the depredations of Zionists.
On November 1944, Lord Moyne, the British Colonial Secretary, was assassinated in Cairo by two Zionists.
His 'crime' was that he thought Zionist incursions in the Middle East would end in catastrophe.

In 1946, the Zionist World Congress condoned the use of terrorism as a means of bringing about the creation of the Zionist State.

Many terrorist organizations sprang up in Palestine in an effort to force the creation of a Zionist state.
The largest of these was Irgun Zvai Leumi, led by Menachim Begin.
Another was the Stern Gang, among whose leaders was Yitzhak Shamir.
During 1946 and 1947, the Zionist terror campaign reached a crescendo.
Hundreds of British soldiers were blown up, shot while they slept, and ambushed.
The British referred the problem to the recently formed United Nations.
On November 29, 1947, the Un.N voted to partition Palestine into two independent states, one Jewish and one Arab.

The plan was accepted by the Zionists but rejected by the ARabs who had no intention of giving up possession and control of a land which had been their homeland for close to 2000 years.

With Zionist terrorism increasing, the Security Council backpedaled and the Truman administration proposed a suspendment of the partition proposal and the British mandate replaced by a 'Trusteeship' that the U.S would be heavily involved in.

With their dream of a Jewish State about to collapse, the Zionists struck at once.
Time magazine reported on it:
"Jewish terrorists of the Stern Gang and the Irgun Zvai Leumi stormed the village of Deir Yasin and butchered everyone in sight. The corpses of 250 Arabs, mostly women and small children, were tossed into wells."

The Palestinians recognized that it was a warning of what would happen if they stayed in their land.
Most of them fled to neighboring states, which is how the Palestinian refugee problem began.

Over the years multiple billions of American tax dollars have been poured into Israel to bolster its sagging economy and keep it afloat!
In 1980 Israel's inflation rate was running at 120 percent and expected to go even higher.

In 1962 in Look magazine, the then Prime Minister David Ben-Gurion said among other things that the Zionists plan to make Jerusalem the adminstrative capital of a One-World government, which as you can see would be the Illuminati's New World Order and the Rothschild's dream of power unimaginable.

And here I'll stop since my fingers hurt.

Laz

Sometimes I think that such posts should be relegated to a personal blog, but usually I just let it ride. I tend to survive these flame wars simply by ignoring them -- I think I can count on one hand the number of Warsong's threads that I've replied to -- I just find myself getting frustrated with them more than anything else, and I find it hard to post anything useful.

Perhaps mods should move these threads into the political discussion category so that at least they don't get posted on the front page of CCN -- that really is the proper category for them.

But perhaps not -- I mean, while I'm sure many of us wouldn't choose Warsong to represent our Christianity to the rest of the world, I don't really believe we need to pull out censorship in this case either.

It's a tough call, and so I've sortof just been ignoring it. There are trouble-makers in any group, and it's good exercise for us to learn how to deal with them.

--clint

...I hope

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
Lava if you want to be sarcastic and it makes you feel better by doing it knowingly out of spite then he aren’t you being bad or worse that what you are arguing about which even the bible mentions?

---

Out of spite? No, you never did anything to me

I want you to realize when I am being sarcastic I am just kidding around and I don't mean anything by it, honestly. I don't have a vendetta against you, nor do I let myself get insulted by you.

------------------

[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 20, 2006).]

quote:

---

Originally posted by D-SIPL:
It's an interesting thing war. It baffles me that even on a predominatly christian site is filled with people who back war. I must have missed the section where Jesus says if someone attacks you to attack them back, or this bit where he says that vengeance is ours not the Lords. Or he section that says repay evil with evil??? Ahh right yeh becuase it's not there. For a country thats run by a "christian" his decisions are slightly confusing? misguided?

---

Do you as a Christian believe America should went to war against Nazi Germany?

Though Faith_Warrior puts it extremely rough I agree.

C.S. Lewis has a balanced perspective on war IMO.

[This message has been edited by fearless (edited October 20, 2006).]

quote:

---

One morning he received a visit from Admiral Wilhelm Canaris, head of the German SS. Canaris told Earle that the Soviet army was the real threat in the war(which later turned out to be so true, Eastern Europe completely subjugated), and also this: That the Germans would agree to an honorable surrender to the American Forces and then help them defeat the Soviet onslaught into Europe.

---

Back to the matter at hand: bombing starving countries with loads of genetically-engineered super-potato-seeds. My reasoning is that most people would rather eat french fries than kill each other. Mutants for the win!

------------------
that post was really cool ^

|
[|=D) <---|| me

Politics brings out the worse in people or maybe who they are. Pretend people in this post were talking to you and weather you are right or wrong does it show how they act back as proper? What I do is bring out peoples personality and I sometimes warn them before I do that which they think they can handle it but in the end show they are not who they say they are.

My posts are not for everyone as I stated since even the nice post that you mention is hated and considered bad by others outside of this forum. People that agree think it’s a breath of fresh air, people that done find it as a bitter taste in their mouth. Again I disagreed with you and we found common ground but when I posted the same thing in here others attacked it and called me names like the part about music and where it comes from since they don’t want to hear truth that is not present. It’s like people not wanting to see a chicken getting its head cut off and seeing it run around with no head but love to eat the chicken. It’s like they want only others to know about the dirty job and want things presented well. If society persists to keep acting like this then going to the bathroom might be considered bad. Half of the disagreements are because of lack of communication it seems since people assume they are being attacked or something.

LAZ----
Did you write that? I don’t think most people read long posts, especially when it is in the middle of a post. Also did you read the PM about honesty vs insult? You would probably find it funny.

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

---

You know what freedom of speech is? It’s to protect unpopular/unflavored speech. If we attack people that we don’t like what they say they attack freedom of speech.

---

remember, freedoms apply to everyone, not just you.

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

Warsong:
Why yes I wrote it . Quoted it actually, but I typed out the whole post, I assure you.

Now on to the new topic, freedom of speech.
Here's something strange:
My Dad says that it is an unBiblical concept and is wrong, we shouldn't have it in this country.
He also says that we don't really have it since
1. You can't pray in schools
2. You can't say anything bad about certain people or you are charged with hate crimes(example homosexuals)

I disagree with him about the first part but the second part is true.

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
[B]HAN--------
You know what freedom of speech is?

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by CheeseStorm:

Back to the matter at hand: bombing starving countries with loads of genetically-engineered super-potato-seeds. My reasoning is that most people would rather eat french fries than kill each other. Mutants for the win!

---

quote:

---

1. You can't pray in schools
2. You can't say anything bad about certain people or you are charged with hate crimes(example homosexuals)

---

2. the hate speech of hate crimes is shaky ground. People cannot be charged for hate speech alone, unless it can be found that they are trying to incite a riot, and such. again, shaky ground, but we do have to right to say bad things about people. just don't try to get a riot going or don't make slanderous defamations.

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

Thank you Arch . (and parents will hate you for stirring up rebellion, lol) j/k

Laz

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
How can everyone say they are so right and others so wrong? I am just as right as everyone else.

---

I know you're probably not a moral relativist (which is what your second statement there sounds like), so I'll try to not take you out of context and go by what I know about you instead of nit-picking at your words.

You asked, "why do people attack me so much?" -- you're right about one thing -- you certainly are in an unpopular position on these boards (Orthodox Christianity as well as being fairly openly anti-semitic). I think it's more than that though -- there are a wide array of beliefs on these boards. We have Christians who are pro-war, who are anti-war, who are full-out pacifists in the Mennonite tradition. We have those who accept abortion, those who are against it, we have old-earth creationists, evolutionists, and literal 7-dayers. And we have had most denominations roll through here at one time or another. So why are you that different? There are plenty of other people who have very similar views of the Jews as you -- why are you attacked and they aren't? I honestly don't know how your heart is, but I don't remember you often being very humble in these discussions. I don't get a feeling that you're wanting to debate so much as you're wanting to soapbox. That lack of appreciation for other people's views often breeds hostility, and it's hard to have a good discussion.

When you said, "I am just as right as everyone else", I'm guessing you meant something more along the lines of "We're all trying to figure out truth, and none of us can be completely sure that we have it all figured out." If that's what you meant, then I think you're completely right! We're all on this road of life together, and guided by scripture, by other people, and by the Holy Spirit, we seek to know Truth -- the ultimate Truth that is God. I find it helpful to take more of an attitude of "comparing notes" rather than trying to blindly spout one's opinion.

I often try to ask myself, "If I'm not willing to honestly consider someone else's point of view, how can I reasonably expect them to consider mine?"

quote:

---

Originally posted by warsong:
How come when I present another site which I may or may not agree with and many attack the messenger? How come so many say their side and intentionally say false information with no evidence but by what they feel or want and I have to sit their and try to correct lies that are spread which is insulting and inflammatory. Why some are calling out derogatory comments which are not true and if I defend I am wrong for defending some feel.

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I don't like that you get flamed on here, and I feel bad that you feel so wronged. In all fairness, many people would claim that you do some similar things to them. It's tough, because both sides of the fence are in the wrong here in many ways.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
You disagree with me and I disagree with you at times but I don�t recall us killing each other over an issue, do you?

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No, I don't. I've posted a few long and emotional responses to you at times, but it hasn't gotten terribly flaming. I'm glad that you and I haven't resorted to insulting each other.
"He who slings mud loses ground."

I have been gotten frustrated with some of our discussions in the past though -- I have a hard time feeling like these conversations are all that productive, so in general I've just thrown up my hands and gone off to spend my time doing something more productive than pointless discussion for the sake of argumentation.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
Great leaders are great because they can BS talk well and not because they talk honest since people need to be lied to, just like an honest lawyer can not defend against a BS lawyer that lies.

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Wait, are you saying Abraham Lincoln was a great leader because he was a lying sneak? Or were you referring to George Washington? King David perhaps?

Sorry, that was a pretty open target for me to hit you there -- I know you didn't mean that. Please consider that more of a friendly jab than a serious attack. I bring this up though because this is a pretty classic example of the kind of sweeping generalization that gets people attacking you in your posts (like the example I just gave of people easily being able to point out examples of Godly leaders). This sort of thing often lends itself to people not taking you seriously, since there are blatant logical fallacies like this spread throughout many of your posts (for a longer analysis of this, you can refer back to BlazeQ's analysis of one of your posts -- I'm not saying that BlazeQ had a kind heart in his reply, I'm just saying that he and other skeptics have some valid reasons for feeling justified in not taking you seriously).

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
What I do is bring out peoples personality and I sometimes warn them before I do that which they think they can handle it but in the end show they are not who they say they are.

My posts are not for everyone as I stated since even the nice post that you mention is hated and considered bad by others outside of this forum. People that agree think it's a breath of fresh air, people that done find it as a bitter taste in their mouth.

---

This is hard. Scripture (especially the New Testament Pauline Epistles) talk about the necessity of good doctrine, but it also talks about the value of cooperation within the body of Christ, and not making our brothers stumble unnecessarily -- even going out of one's way to get along (such as not eating meat if it offends your brother, and things like that). So while I understand the value of being honest, I see in scripture that we (as Christians), must also carry with us some measure of tact as well.

Thanks for your reply -- I appreciated it.

In Christ,
clint

I do admit, the anti-Semitic tone steams me though. Call it what you will but what I’m referring to is the anti-Israel stance and all that. Honestly I don’t recall such a view when I attended the Greek Orthodox church, my buddies were definitely not anti-Semitic or anti-Israel at all. This is more often something I catch from liberal or even RCC at times. It frankly baffles me.

I don’t know, this thread does not seem very harsh to me. Flaming is often another nature than what I’m seeing here, though some is boarder-line, but generally this thread, or replies to be more specific, have been focused on correctness in hopes of repentance and growth. For some though, even disagreeing with their views is an act of flaming; discussion not wanted. But this is certainly not a discussion thread, or at least the original post wasn’t, but yes a soapbox thread. Soapbox and bull horn in your face and children need not reply. War, you should invest a little money into a jar of honey and dab it on your tongue before pattering your fingers across that keyboard. The judge, jury and executioner mentality is alarming. Such as with the Bereans, they searched and reasoned from the scriptures, not clime upon a soapbox and belittled the crowd into submission. I’ve seen far far worse though, but I hope you don’t find yourself further down that path, it’s a hopeless one.

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 21, 2006).]

As for figuring out the truth, yes that is what I mean. I even stated a few times the quote by Socrates that is considered the smartest man and says that the only thing he is sure of is that he knows nothing. Every day people learn something new and should be humble to let any discussion go to find is and not labels people negatively, or attack the person than the message like some do here, or give no proof, assume the worst, protest a post, etc like some have done. You see me back down from a debate or tell others not to post? What I get is people that ignored my points and nit pick that they can semi fight without facts and I have to defend that too and they ignore the points and just go attacking the person instead of the argument mostly then when I attack back slightly they complain like hypocrites as if they didn’t start it.

You say that some feel I do bad to them first but to be honest I don’t see it and even if you saw it that way then I didn’t even think negative and they don’t like my comments since they feel offended. If you look at my signature in what Christ said to people that come under his name doing good, he calls them evil since many come under Christian name and have done more evil despite them believing in Christ so badly that it hurt. I feel bad that Christ is far more blunt and I am holding back since I feel I am not better than Christ and so I call a spade a spade but if they disagree let Christ judge them. I say my side and if people don’t like it then they can not read what I say or boot me. When I moderated a Christian site I let anything go to see what will happen to hear the other side while other moderators booted other quickly without talking it out. If find that it brings more problems in many ways.

Pointless discussions? I find it more interesting than a game to be honest since this is like a chess game to have your move my move and so on and sometimes other quit the match and say it’s a draw which that isn’t true, or sometimes I am busy and took me a month to reply like the orthodox post in the religious forum which Simon and Brandon tried to debate. Hey I am outgunned here and I am holding my ground and maybe its like what Laz said I am the lone ranger lol. If the majority of Christians are wrong then I guess I can say I am glad that I am not part of the majority just like taking the long hard narrow path. Obviously you might disagree but that’s the point of I to exchange views and make the other thinks of another side, hoping that the other will think.

Many great leaders are great since they are like salesmen, they are good at talking despite they don’t know what they are talking about or know the issues well. Lincoln said negative things about Jews and blacks but many things are taken out especially the part about him not wanting blacks in the US but wanted them free. Now if anyone says what Lincoln said then they would attack the messenger and freedom of speech is out the window. Kind of like Clinton how he can talk and people like him and bush cant and people don’t like him as much. Clinton blows up Christian churches and Christian are happy in how Clinton explains it, but attacks a Muslim place he cant defend it. Clinton can sell ice-cream to an Eskimo while bush cant sell cold water to a starving person. Well those are extreme examples that some are not true but I am emphasizing. Ok I see now you didn’t mean it since I am replying paragraph by paragraph. I don’t get what you mean that I should say things in more details since if I say things broadly I get more attacked? But another thing is you see how you replied and you know how others would reply, and so which is a better reply the ones that see things negative or others or positive of others? Obviously your reply was good.

Explain your last statement more.

Arch
No to attack people when they say something is against freedom of speech since if you attack someone for saying something than the thing he says then you encourage others not to speak and so you restrict it. Your comments are a double standard.
Faith
The ones that acted I said acted good did not usually agree with me but they replied well.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

quote:

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Arch
No to attack people when they say something is against freedom of speech since if you attack someone for saying something than the thing he says then you encourage others not to speak and so you restrict it. Your comments are a double standard.

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alright, let me expand upon what I said before.

first of all, freedom of speech, as addressed in the consitution, is rules placed on the government, not the people. I don't need to respect freedom of speech, because it's a freedom secured from the government, not from people around you. now, coercion has it's own issues, so one party trying to limit another has it's own consequences.

now, "attacking" someone's view, or as we like to say in debate, a rebuttal, is protected under the freedom of speech. it is speech, no? I'm not preventing you from speaking, am I?
frankly, the only person asking for a limiting of speech is you, when you ask that an entire brand of speech be stricken out.

frankly, you should be the last to complain about attacking people. I don't complain about it, because I know I attack people, namely you. Do unto others. People like HanClinto don't get attacked because their peace-makers, but people like me, we live by the sword and die by it.
the thing is, you are swing your sword widely, hitting people like max, lava and me. You don't seem to realize that the things you accuse others of, you are clearly guilty of yourself.
I have posts back there where I just quote you just to point out your hypocrisy, where you insult me, tell me I shouldn't attack people, then insult me again. now, if you want to insult me, insult me. but telling me not to do it in between insults (not even before or after) is rather ridiculous.
Are you really incapable of seeing your own actions?
well, okay, in all fairness, a person doesn't get the mental capacity to look at themselves objectively until they're around 8 years old.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by Faith_Warrior (edited October 21, 2006).]

I apologize for that, Warsong. It was innappropriate for me to be so negative.

However, I do feel that I agree with both Han and Arch. There is nothing wrong with a good debate, but you can see how hitting a touchy spot can start people's emotions going. Some people feel very deeply about things. I personally tend to get a little emotional. I don't know if I consider it a fault, and I definately don't consider it a sin.

OK, I finally had to humble myself and step back a bit and look at what I was doing. I realized I didn't like the flaming I was doing.

Can you try it Warsong? Just take a step back, and look at your posts a little objectively. I'm not asking you to change anything, just to try and see if you understand what we are saying. If you don't even try, then it simply perpetuates what we think of your posts.

Well, enough out of me.

BTW, Freedom of speech is a scary thing. Try saying bomb on an airplane.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

[This message has been edited by max (edited October 21, 2006).]

And yes, I am being sarcastic haha.

Wahoo 1300th post!!!

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 21, 2006).]

If your parents say your clothes don’t look good you take that as a hint to change, if I say it then you take it as an insult despite I am not gloating or making fun, but if I said it while laughing and making fun then it would be an insult. The rest of your comments seem to be again a lack of communication and you interpreted it wrong. Even your comment about the 8 year old was rude and you are just escalating and instigating for your to be intentionally attacked and to cause problem.

Max
I have seen you as a not so nice person lately despite you mean well and I am very surprised you apologized.
********** Politics affect people’s lives and they get more heated about it, a video game is pointless and affects no one since it’s not that important to get heated up about. Politics/news is a touchy issued since you can see people getting pissed off at the TV and curse since they feel offended since the future look back, while you don’t see people cursing or as much at a video game since its just a game and you play again for fun. Politics brings out the worse in people at times if they are not ready and when I was debating in class to go against the other side it was hard and we attacked the view but didn’t go after the person. If you look at politics on TV how candidates attack the other person than the view that are playing dirty and how they act influences others to act the same way. If anything I think people should not vote in the ballot and vote with their wallets since both sides lie but money doesn’t and gets more results.

As for my posts if you feel I am rude, quote what I have said in my actions and say how I am wrong, it’s simple enough, right? I may defend it sometimes since I don’t think anything bad but the other took it bad, and I hope it’s not like how the pope said he is sorry Muslims feel offended on what he believes about the Muslim religion. No harm no foul. But generally point it out that way you have a clear conscious and stated your post without feeling bad and you look like the good guy.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

The information contained within it has been plucked from various sources from books I've read.
I am not saying I believe it(I think I already said this), nor that you should.
This is just a compilation of many "conspiracy theories" that some of the far-right people tend to believe and throw out at you.

Laz

quote:

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It shows you are one sided since you do not want to hear an opposing view

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quote:

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Arch this one is for you and your one sided view.

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quote:

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The point of freedom of speech it to talk about issues to find the truth, not to use that to attack the person that is trying to talk, but what would you know.

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quote:

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Did you get it? Restricting information for one side? Does that sound familiar on your end since they don’t want the other side of the story said? Then you want both sides of the story but when you only get one side then what do you know? Or do you want to hear what’s pleasing to you?

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quote:

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Are you a DJ to twist the turntable? ... ...it’s just that you want to see things negative to attack.

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again, I do dish out the heavier, more blantant insults, when I care to. But, these quotes are messenger-centric and most of the time fail to answer the actual points I have made. Ask people on this board, many have been put off by the nature of your posts.

as I said in my earlier post, and you missed it, I don't care if you attack me. just don't complain about me attacking you. if you want it to stop, stop and so will I. I'm merely playing your game. atleast I know what my posts are like and not asking others to prove them to me. I gave that up years ago after being publicly embarassed by it. yes, I was under 20 back then.

quote:

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I did very well in political science debating classes and my professor from Colombia University knew it.

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basically, if you want to have a real debate with me, you need to step off your soap box and gain some respect. Cheese has my respect and we disagree on many issues, but I will debate the points with him because he makes them AND responds to them. As in one of our first debates... I believe something about dogs and church(don't really remember) you carried yourself like you were trying to teach me. I am surrounded by people who want to teach me and I need to put them to the test. a test through debate. you couldn't respond to my points and all you said is that I wasn't going to listen. you're not my parent or my pastor.
I'm not going to debate unless the other party is also. Even with this little foray we're in, you have hardly addressed my points on how attacking people isn't limiting. for Slander, I agree. but for other cases, like criticizing government and government figures, it's very well protected.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

Haha

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[This message has been edited by LAVA (edited October 21, 2006).]

Your opinion is that you are not one sided, but in my opinion you are since you mostly don’t want yourself or others to hear the other side. Even you come on my posts with no helpful talk about the topic and just say things like
“your wrong and ignorant if you disagree with warsong's priest”
or this post how you come in and say silly thing
“If I wanted a biased opinions, I'll take a poly sci class. “ “we eat our steaks raw, and have unbridled horsepower” etc
As you see you quickly come on and the first thing you do is attack the messenger than the message. And then when I try to push you away to make you stop ranting off topic you complain and you play around distorting what I say which I guess you haven’t noticed it yet.

You talk about for you to stop but you should not come off if all you will do is flame and have nothing to contribute to the post. The only thing I see you do if come to others post then you want them to stop first after you start which is odd. You come on you say your junk, I rebuttal your attacks on me then you say you will stop when I stop about you? Do you see the contradiction their? It’s like a kid throwing rocks at windows and I tell them to stop and they say they will after I stop complaining to them throwing rocks in the windows in the first place.

Your university? A reward from a liberal school? Then that explains a lot if you get honored by liberals to jump over freedom of speech and get rewarded. As for the first debate about dog’s people here wanted to treat dogs like people and even dog psychiatrists say that’s the best way to mess up the dog since the dog and the main problem in what people do it to elevate the dog to human status. People like that make them rich and he is baffled how something so logical escapes peoples minds. I didn’t say that in the post but that’s the truth of the mater from experts. Even expert on the show Dog whisper says the same. Let people step on S@#$ and find out the hard way, I said what I had to say. Some listen and benefit some don’t and always wonder why things are as they are.

If you have any complains about news around the world that you don’t want to hear then you want to hear a biased view despite you don’t feel that way. I hear one side of the story so I present another side no matter if they are Muslims, Jews, Christians, Hindu, etc. if you got a problem and call it biased then look up the word. Facts are facts so go complain to God that you only one to hear one side. Do you complain to the butcher that he only sells you meat and not water since you need water to survive? The same thing with the news you got the regular water so if you don’t like the meet then go to a vegetarian store and quit picketing in front of the meet market! I answer your all your points, its just that you don’t listen or there is a breakdown of communication since you think negative of others.

LAVA
What? You are being a clown now. You have been warned and you are being rude.

Laz
Have not heard most but how do you know that some are not true? I seen some from official news papers like from NYT, POST, etc. Even arch got a link on the first page about restricting information even though arch is for freedom of speech and thinks highly of the Jewish religion despite the obvious contradiction that the Washington post or first hand accounts from priests from other countries, or official government records which you can read since we have the freedom of information act. The problem is that many read one sided source than all to compare and validate. News sites have to validate information or else they get fined or shut down.

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

------------------
"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

Oh, and for anyone posting posts longer than five or ten lines, please make smaller paragraphs and hit enter before writing a new sentence, otherwise it is very hard to read and I probably won't bother to.
(Not to mention anyone else who tries to read it)

Laz

laz
Information from news or books have to be verified or else they will end up on the fiction section just like the book Da Vinci Code. Hence the references they have so that you can check them out for yourself. It is odd how 30% of Canadians think that the Da Vinci code is the truth despite it having no real evidence.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

A "FICTION" book, remember? I never understood what all the fuss was about. There are many books that are bad that never receive such attention.

And to apply your own logic, warsong, where do you get that statistic about 30% of Canadians?

Laz

All 30 million of us Canadians were lined up and asked how historically accurate we found the book/movie. We decided that nobody cared, and then we went to see Jet Li's Fearless. It is currently my favorite movie and I think you would enjoy it.

quote:

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Originally posted by warsong:
LAVA
What? You are being a clown now. You have been warned and you are being rude.

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Dude that aint right.....

....It's not my fault I work for the circus.

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We all oughta just stop posting. This really isn't productive in any matter. None of Warsong's posts have been productive, he's always attacking something.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

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Maybe I'll make an avatar. Smiley it will be.

Christ would not have failed because he did not fail.

So what's your point? That the world is screwed up? Nothing has changed since Adam and Eve's first bite except that rather than us looking forward to Christ's (first) coming, we look back....and, of course, all the corresponding differences of how we interact with the Holy Spirit.

Ultimately:
Ghandi's precepts didn't "fix" the world when he was alive, and they won't "fix" the world now that he's dead. Did some mortal temporal "good" come from his being alive? Perhaps.
Rather, Christ is the answer and your brow-beating and chest-thumping isn't going to do anything to help.

For the sake of thread-hijacking: Gandhi helped a lot more people than you or me. I suppose if he were a Christian, but with the same accomplishments, he would suddenly not be a failure in your eyes?

<Ar0uNd> Mahatma Gandhi, as you know, walked barefoot his whole life, which
<Ar0uNd> created an impressive set of calluses on his feet. He also ate very little,
<Ar0uNd> which made him frail, and with his odd diet, he suffered from very bad
<Ar0uNd> breath. This made him.... what?
<Ar0uNd> (This is so bad it's good...) --a super-callused fragile mystic hexed by halitosis.

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Kiwee Stuff Website:
http://kiwee.gibbering.net

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

quote:

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Originally posted by CheeseStorm:
Warsong was saying that the media is more restricted by the government these days, so Gandhi's mission would not have got much attention (and international support) in modern times. This thread was meant to be about whether or not people know what goes on in the world.

For the sake of thread-hijacking: Gandhi helped a lot more people than you or me. I suppose if he were a Christian, but with the same accomplishments, he would suddenly not be a failure in your eyes?

---

The gist of the original post (and subsequent posts) seemed to be less that of media restriction now vs past but rather people's attitudes now vs past.

Re Gandhi: Thus the -> "failed" <- bit.

Whether or not I think Gandhi failed is not the point. Some of "Gandhi's methods" might have had some good, but the good was not that of Gandhi. Rather those were principles already established in the Bible and by Christ.
Gandhi was a flawed human being (just like you or me) combining some Biblical principles with some non-Biblical principles (or his own take on the former) and presenting it as "the way", when The Way was already presented (and, by accounts, rejected by him).

Setting up Gandhi as a "wise man" is somewhat like seeing a well-trained dog and setting up the owner as this oh so wise person without any recognition of the author of the book this "wise person" read to learn how to train this well-behaved puppy.

Should I spurn learning about Gandhi? Hardly, learning history is not a bad thing.

But if Gandhi was to have failed today, he already failed when he started.
The question would be, "What was his goal?" If he could "succeed" then, he could "succeed" today. If he can't "succeed" today, he would have "failed" then.

The only thing new now is the speed of information.

People are no different. The world otherwise is really no different. There are still hateful spiteful people. There are still loving caring individuals. There are still growing Christians. There are still stagnate Christians. There are still "moral" athiests. There are still "immoral" athiests. We get information faster, we might have more information at our fingertips, but that's it, and that's not *that* big of a change in the long run. People still have to make their own choices, live their own lives. And they basically still make their decisions based on the same thing they've always made them...emotions. Something that is totally non-fact oriented if there ever was.

If Gandhi would "fail" today, he already did.

p.s.

quote:

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Warsong was saying that the media is more restricted by the government these days,

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[This message has been edited by NetCog (edited October 30, 2006).]

quote:

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Originally posted by NetCog:

[QUOTE]Warsong was saying that the media is more restricted by the government these days,

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[This message has been edited by NetCog (edited October 30, 2006).]
[/QUOTE]

Seriously, back then you could have genocides in any third world country you wanted and none would be the wiser. Today if some kid gets hit by a stray bullet, they'll mount a webcam in the wound. The only difference is that today, instead of just getting the associated presses approved opinion, you get the opinion of everybody and their dog.

[This message has been edited by Cohort X (edited October 30, 2006).]

Gandhi was raised a Hindu but respected all religions as leading to love and kindness bla bla bla. If he got his good methods from the Bible, then he also got them from many other religions.