Btw, I know there are quite a few homeschooled teenagers here, so why do you guys do homeschool? Is it the same reason as mine? (hmm... maybe I'm just weird and antisocial )

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

(see Girls thread)

*takes cover*

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[This message has been edited by Lava (edited October 02, 2006).]

"INCOMING ARTILLERY! TAKE COVER"

*drives tank to stratigic position and returns fire*

Whoo boy dude you have let loose all of the bad stuff here.

Many people argue for Homeshcooling, and against one guy (not naming names... because i don't remember* really went pshco on homeshcoolers, and I got kinda pissed.

BOTTOM LINE: You decide for yourself. Some people do good in the public school system, some do bad and do better in the homeshcooling system. Then there's your reason of being protected from culture: MY 2 cents, not gonna work. You have ot face your problems and not take cover (though that's not really the smart thing if your probelms have weapons, then taking cover can help you face your problems). Through your computer, your friends, and through any type of media, culture, though sometimes sickingly depraved and sinful, will find you. If its not for educational reasons, you can homeschool if you want to. But not to protect yourself from the outside world. Face it, rebuke it, be prosecuted in some manner, but eventually know that your the toughest of the tough and that nothing can change you. or you can go into the Marines and learn the same thing. whatever. I'm not saying anything more (Okay, that was probably a lie, but nothing more in this post.

"CONCACT!"

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited October 02, 2006).]

Some kids like being homeschooled, some like public school.
Each has upsides and downsides.
Why did I get homeschooled? Well my parents made me...

Your Dad may be right about your "social life". He probably just doesn't want you to be become a shy-introverted-anti social teenager like me .

I must say mine(social life that is) is dismal to say the least, if not nonexistant.

Now, RM...

*Shell hits and blows up dozens of soldiers*
"MEN DOWN, MEN DOWN! NEED SOME BACKUP NOW!"
*As dozens of men pour over the hill and charge*
"MAN THE MACHINE GUNS! STOP THE ENEMY!"
*Is shot*
"MEDIC! MEDI.........."
*Gasps, chokes, and flops over dead as Captain Realm Master sobs over the body of his commander. "Goodbye... sir...I'll miss ya."
*He charges the enemy, holding only a slinky.*
"Take that, and that!" *Soldiers go down everywhere under the onslaught.*

Lazarus

what... is... a... slinky?!?!

Gaa! I can't remember what a slinky is!!!!!

DANG IT WHAT'S A SLINKY AND WHY CAN'T I REMEMBER!??!

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

It's that long coil that bounces I guess you were choking them to death with it or something...

Lazarus

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+---------+
|steveth45|
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Anyway, homeschool vs. public or private...

Exposure to "the world" is not a bad thing. You're a Christian so you should be familiar with the whole "be in the world, not of it" thing. Don't cringe every time somebody swears, don't say how bad "R rated movies" or porn are. Don't criticize the music people listen to. Dont say anything if it isn't positive. You will only alienate yourself further. The right way to approach it is a)dont swear, b)dont watch stuff you feel is bad, c)dont listen to their music if you can help it.\
Its really not that hard to be a Christian in a public school for the most part.
All this "our kids are being corrupted" stuff is conservative propaganda. There is a murderer, pervert, and blasphemer is us all- the challenge is to overcome those tendencies, not hide in a cave.

If you are honestly uncomfortable with being in such a large group of people that are nothing like you, find one person who is. Make one friend who has roughly the same values as you, and you will feel much better.
It may seem lame and geeky, but it sounds like your current situation is worse.

Dont preach!
If you want to start an afterschool Bible study, have at it. But don't preach to people. If they are going to be curious at all, it will be because you are a good example. One of the things most people think about Christians is that they're hypocrites. Give them evidence otherwise, and they will ask honest questions.

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Signature, Yes, signature. Ahh signature. Yep.

quote:

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Exposure to "the world" is not a bad thing.

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quote:

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Don't cringe every time somebody swears, don't say how bad "R rated movies" or porn are.

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quote:

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Don't criticize the music people listen to.

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quote:

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Dont say anything if it isn't positive.

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quote:

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Its really not that hard to be a Christian in a public school for the most part.

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quote:

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All this "our kids are being corrupted" stuff is conservative propaganda.

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sheltering has it's uses. I have my own argument towards those who over do it, but, well, that's not issue that's sticking out now.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
You don't know what a slinky is, Captain RM?!
"Demotion! Dismissed to the ranks! Stripped of officer's uniform! Drummed out of the service! Ridicule and scorn heaped on head for the rest of your life!"

It's that long coil that bounces I guess you were choking them to death with it or something...

Lazarus

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OOOOOHhhhhhhh THAT. Now i remember (I aslo googled slinky XD)

And to back up Crazishone's "speech"

A man once said "Preach the bible constantly, and occasionally use words"

Shouldn't be that hard to dechiper.

I try to do that, but only have 1 period of public school, I don't have much to be an example to (And I've blown it a couple times =(. NOTE: NEVER put someone down behind there back to make somebody or a group laugh. I've done that when I know i shouldn't have. next time I'm in a group, I'm not going to do that. Or I'll make a point not to.

GAA! I'M SUCHA BAD EXAMPLE!!!

And to place my own POV: The world is evil. Men are evil. Women are Evil. Your mother-in-law is evil. Its just that some men, women (and mother-in-laws) rise above their evil, or at least accept Christ and are forgiven (though thats not going to make your mother-in-law any less condoning if thats their nature) People are just trying to survive. If they don't have God they try and fill the void with some nasty stuff. People can be corrupted, its just how you choose your friends, and hey, if you hang out with druggies, maybe you can "corrupt" them into a christian (not as hard as you would think, I know a lot of people who have had questionable pasts. One of my young life leaders was an Aloholic, and he's the coolest Christain ever!)

Think about it. Its your life, not ours. Just remember: God is with you, always. Even in the bathroom.

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited October 02, 2006).]

I had at one point almost become a mormon because my friend and his family were such a great example. They never once "witnessed" to me. They didn't have to.

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Signature, Yes, signature. Ahh signature. Yep.

[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 02, 2006).]

quote:

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I'm just telling him how not to become the stereotypical Bible-thumping exile of a Christian that I see all the time.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:
but a what good is a "social life" if it just influences you in a bad way?

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Hmm...don't really see the logic in this. I believe it's the *people* that will influence you, not nessicarily having a social life. But that's why you don't hang out with the "wrong crowd".

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:

Besides, I'm an extremely intraverted (is that even a word?) and I don't feel like I'll ever like being surrounded mostly by total strangers almost the whole day.

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Yes it's a word and I understand being intraverted. There are a few in my family, its just that your energy level is drained when around alot of people, you could like people, but you just need to zone out by yourself after being around people for long periods of time, unlike extraverted people (like me) who get their energy level from people. Many famous people are intraverted and its nothing to be ashamed of.

But-- even intraverted people need to get out in the world and survive (take Steven Speilberg, intraverted, but he had to go out and make a living). Will the real world be no different? When you get out of school and get a job, you will be surrounded by totaly strangers. Not speaking from experience just basic logic, so what is the difference now? And I am not talking about the moral aspects.

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:

Btw, I know there are quite a few homeschooled teenagers here, so why do you guys do homeschool? Is it the same reason as mine? (hmm... maybe I'm just weird and antisocial )

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My parents felt that the influences of private (my sister was in a private school and they tried forcing the stuff of the public schools) or public schools were bad for me.

And oh yeah, not sure what if you implied this, but being anti-social is not being intraverted, too different types of people. Anti-social people don't like people, intraverted people do.

I am not against your argument, it's up to you if you want be homeschooled. I am trying to understand your thinking and clarify things

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[This message has been edited by Lava (edited October 02, 2006).]

1 Corinthians 15: 33 "Bad company corrupts good morals."

I really should find some different people to be around, these far-right conservatives are corrupting my morals with their talk of killing Kofi Annan and Bush and throwing a con-con(constitutional convention)
j/k. There's more than one side of the coin.

Lazarus

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Signature, Yes, signature. Ahh signature. Yep.

The whole arguement about never saying anything negative? BS! No one likes a suck-up either. If everything you do is agree or nothing at all you won't be successful in developing social skills. If you behave that way it'll become a habit and you'll be unable to express your true feelings on a topic. You'd always be pausing to wonder if it's what the other people want to hear you say.

Public school > Home school in that manner alone. Interaction with the 'druggies', 'emos', 'preps', 'jocks', etc. is all part of the fun. Heck see if you can play with them for some personal enjoyment.

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"The only people on Earth who do not see Christ and His teachings as nonviolent are Christians". - Mahatma Gandhi

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Signature, Yes, signature. Ahh signature. Yep.

Yea, bad stuff exists, guess what? IT EXISTS IN THE REAL WORLD TOO!

Pretending that it doesn't exist by homeschooling is basically socially crippling a kid.

Don't get me wrong, homeschooling has its ups, like kids being smarter, maybe learning more. I wouldn't trade my social skills for any more learning, considering I'm at a prestigious college studying a professional program where I'll have the label Dr.

I was a kid, yea, it happens, I swore, tried to fit in. I was a good wholesome person for the most part, I was an example for Christ, just by living. Sure, I did some unsavory things, but I'm human, I'm allowed to screw up.

That's my speal.

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To err is human--and to blame it on a computer is even more so. - Robert Orben

Blind belief is dangerous. - Kenyan Proverb

Computers are useless. They can only give you answers. - Pablo Picasso

Do you know what it's like after you answer the question "what school do you go to?" If you answer that question with any bit of hesitence, the "questions" and the judging starts.

I've been homeschooled for almost my entire life, and when I entered college, I was always thought of as a junior or a senior for not acting like a freshman. apparently, my social skills were superior to the generic highschooler. Literally every person I thought I was upper graduate. no joke.
Apparently, making friends was a good deal harder when people knew you were homeschooled than not.

... and to get back on topic.
I liked being homeschooled, regardless of my issues state above. I had a good amout of friends, ones I still keep in close contact today; some of which I would have never met if I went to school. I don't know about brazil, but in America there are over a million schoolers and co-ops and different groups are set up.
Not only that, but I was in charge of my own education. I got to choose what I wanted to do and when. I had to cover the essentials, obviously, since I reported to a school adminstration, but I got to go at my own pace.
and you know what else I got into? sleeping in till noon.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

1/4 Jocks and Sluts
1/4 Goths and Emos
1/4 Regular kids
1/4 Smart kids and Browners (teachers' pets)

So, you will interact with a variety of people. Aside from your own circle of friends, there is no real benefit to this other than realizing early on that the world is largely full of idiots - and adapting the "social skills" to restrain from going insane as the teacher explains a simple concept for the 12th time. Like city traffic, public classrooms move at the pace of the slowest person. If public schools had some take-home classes (internet or book), coupled with some teamwork-based classes, then everybody could save time.

*Edit* Actually, the weirdness of goths made it seem like there were more around than there really were. Add on some regular kids.

[This message has been edited by CheeseStorm (edited October 03, 2006).]

I remember my first day at Secondary School (high school for you americans). There were a bunch of kids round the corner from the school gates smokin a dooby before lessons. After a few years you kinda become decensortised to those things... that can be negative.

I went on to do drugs later in school life towards the end. Eating shrooms, smoking weed and doing amphetamines. I don't regret it, cause i can associate with those kids out in the world involved in all that. So you see you can't be shelterd and naive, but it's not neccesarily great to become decensortised either.

my 2 cents...

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler
"I believe in freedom... not freedom like America, freedom like a shopping cart"

To wrap it all up, the reason I think most people view homeschoolers as social crippled is that they're not like their control group (most public schoolers). However, closer observation usually shows that this is because they have learned, at least to some extent, how to observe for a problem or opportunity and catch it ahead of time rather than walk right into it. They've learned to gauge their surroundings and respond to the changes rather than have to flat-footed react to it. Yes, this makes them usually more sober and less quick to open up or do stupid stuff just on their own whim (or the whim of someone else) to, as some people refer to it, "have fun" or do something "just for the fun of it", but, to my mind, it's an advantage, not a handicap. The way I look at it, I'm going to have to handle all this stuff sometime anyway, and I'm grateful that I had the opportunity to take my time and develop and strengthen myself, my resolve, and my relationship with Christ before I had to encounter the full force of issues that still lie ahead of me.

Once again it's just between you and your parents, trust them and pray with them, and God will speak to you too. If you do head to public school, then stay back a bit, not hurl yourself flat out into the tide without observing the ebb and flow, be careful of your descision and work hard to make yourself exceptional, even if that means waylaying a few friends or friendly acquaintances along the way. Plug in with one or two excellent, exceptional, and trust worthy friends and build each other up, learn from each other and develop each other, and keep in constant contact with your parents, let them know what's going on, no matter how bad, keep feeding them data, do that they can gauge what's going on and help you handle the events or step in if need be.

If you head to homeschool, then the advice is still essentially the same. Word hard, strive to be exceptional, get one or two good friends (real friends, the kind you can talk to on the telephone or go to their house for the weekend) and stay in close contact, usually there are homeschool co-op or homeschool groups in many towns, if you haven't found one already you might want to talk to your parents about poking around seeing if you could find someone to hook up with who could help you and your parents get set up and connected. Homeschool co-ops are great places to find friends, and they usually offer extra classes as well that you can take. When problems do pop up though, or the outside world creeps in, don't run from it, meet it head on. Use wisdom and descisiveness and use it as an opportunity to hone your skills and learn to deal with the problem quickly and efficently. Oh, and just a little post scriptum, when you homeschool you might find that you have alot of free time, I suggest you try your best to apply it to something as useful as possible like reading or independant study (studying and intriguing extra subject or facet of a subject on your own time by yourself), sure, six straight hours on the Xbox or computer is tempting, but you'll grow alot more and get alot more done in the scope of life if you take that six hours and do something more useful with it.

Anyhoo, hope that help out, let us know how it goes.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:

then again, I live in California.

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HA! C.A.! its an... interesting state to live in... especially with "the Govenator" running it. Bah, politics, I could care less.

EDIT: Man I missed a lot of posts.

Well...

I can't add on, my posts WAAAAYYYYY up there ^^^^^^^ somewhere in the "sky" of the topic. ITs ovbious that we all have diff. oppinions.

@ Capn' Stank: What "personal enjoyment" Do you get from druggies? Or sluts or emos or whatever? *SCRATCH THAT* You can have a clean simple fun with any folk. I see it done all the time and Young Life. They bring in kids like that, and many times it either changes them, or at least lets them have a real good time, instead of getting high.

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited October 03, 2006).]

quote:

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To wrap it all up, the reason I think most people view homeschoolers as social crippled is that they're not like their control group (most public schoolers)

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heh. no, I'm not gonna let this one go.
I beat the public schooler at their own game, you bet I'm gonna gloat.

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the world is largely full of idiots

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Rm, it's not Arnorld that make is "interesting," it's every single politician.
If your state sues the top 6 car companies for "polluting" even though cars emit 99% pollutants than they did a generation ago... you know you live in the wrong state.
man, I so wish I can pull out my cat and put in some headers.. but no...
...man, they're totally pushing their beliefs on me...

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

Hmm....

I'll pick the hord of ravenous and vicious tazmanian devils to be placed in a dark small cell with me.

At least then I have a chance.

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited October 03, 2006).]

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:
brings back memories of 3rd grade when I was homeschooled...I would start at 9:00 in the morning and finish by noon sometimes and then play Commander Keen for half of the day, lol.

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Dude! So did I! (Basically) I love Commander Keen!

Currently I am working on a 3D demo of it.

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[This message has been edited by Lava (edited October 03, 2006).]

Lazarus

I didn't ride a 2-wheel bike until I was 8. And my friends would point it out, like saying "well I have been riding one since I was 4". When I told my dad that, he said "well you go tell them that they may have been riding a bike since they were 4, but you've been writing excell spreadsheets since you were 2" lol.

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Lazarus

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

quote:

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Originally posted by Lava:
Dude! So did I! (Basically) I love Commander Keen!

Currently I am working on a 3D demo of it.

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Sweet...... that'll be cool when it's done . Apogee Software said they would make "Commander Keen 2000" but they never did get to it........ too bad.

quote:

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Originally posted by Lazarus:
You guys had computers in third grade? Whoa. I didn't get one till about 3 or 4 years ago.

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I used my dad's computer too....that old, decaying Pentium (300 GHz? 500? I don't remember)
I learned how to ride a bike when I was 5 or 6.....I don't remember exactly--but oh, do I remember those many bruises and band-aids

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

yeah... I don't recall a thing. Must 'f hit my head too many times.

Well... The memories are dim, save for when my brother was learning and he ran smack into a poll like the first time w/out training wheels. seems like good times NOW, not so great when it acutally happened.

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yeah, im a little crazy

Awaiting Avatar Image Size rechange...

quote:

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
[QUOTE]
I beat the public schooler at their own game

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Thats pretty pathetic arch. Do you realize people in public school don't sit down and say "oh, aren't homeschoolers so <i>lame</i>?! They will never be able to function in society!" I know you're aware that not all students at a public schooler are the same, so why go ahead and lump them together anyway?

People from different sides of the fence almost always put eachother into generalised groups, make stereotypes, etc. Its natural, get over it. Funny that you should complain about this "socially inept homeschooler" stereotype, then turn around and say you've beaten "the public schooler". Like any of them give a damn.

And before you jump on me with some self-righteous argument, know that I've gone to more schools than I can remember right now, public and christian/private. I've also been homeschooled. (Oh my holy crap no way!)
I'd like to think my opinion is a fairly educated one.

dXter
Waking up late, doing school, and screwing around the rest of the day seems like it would be fun. But trust me, its not. You get bored after the first few days, and go to sleep feeling like you've accomplished nothing. You'll feel this way for ten months. Don't get me wrong, you'll still go outside and get to visit people most likely. But for the better part of your waking life you will be in your little house, doing the same thing over and over like a rat in a cage.
I didn't mind it so much, but sometimes it gets depressing. Just remember, there are other people with moral values at public schools, people who like the same things you like, etc. And if you're worried about it being too "easy", and you want to learn on your own... then you can get ahead. Nobody is going to say "hey you kid, stop that! no more homework before everyone else!" You can theoretically go at your own pace, as long as it isn't slower than everyone else. Also, the things people say about how bad public schools are is complete crap. Every district is different. It comes down to where you live. People often make house-purchasing decisions based on the quality of the school district. The point is, a bad public school is like homeschooling in a messy house with a bunch of loud siblings and a parent who lacks the education to help you.

Either way you'll be on your own, teaching a good deal to yourself, and dodging stuff flying through the air.

A good, well-funded public school is like a clean home where your dad or mom can help you with your math work, and the meals are good.

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 03, 2006).]

quote:

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Thats pretty pathetic arch. Do you realize people in public school don't sit down and say "oh, aren't homeschoolers so <i>lame</i>?! They will never be able to function in society!" I know you're aware that not all students at a public schooler are the same, so why go ahead and lump them together anyway?

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the only ounce of seriousness in it is to serve as a counter to the most commonly used arguement that public school's advantage is social skills. After a couple years, yes, it gets old. Why? you ask. because:
A) it's a direct implication that you do not have social skills
B) they claim they do, while the average highschooler does not have great social skills. All they know is how to operate in their subculture, which, generally, will amount to nothing. Learning how the emos act will not help me with my future career nor to be more of a man.
C) it's asked almost every time they find out your homeschooled
yeah, I have a bone to pick with that argument. frankly, why they may not be in a competition with the homeschoolers over social skills, they use it as their leverage for superiority.

and yeah, I've had people pretty much come up to the point of saying what you stated. There are degrees.
and no, they don't think about. They never do, they just say it.

quote:

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People from different sides of the fence almost always put eachother into generalised groups, make stereotypes, etc. Its natural, get over it.

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oh wait...
[quote="crazishone"]I know you're aware that not all students at a public schooler are the same, so why go ahead and lump them together anyway?

People from different sides of the fence almost always put eachother into generalised groups, make stereotypes, etc. Its natural, get over it.[/quote]
there we go.

I don't have the time or the patience to write out "public schoolers who think homeschoolers are inferior socially" everytime. I expect those readin g my posts to have enough intelligence to realize I'm referring to those who act condescending and hold that point of view (hich, frankly, comes out to quite a large percentage). Perhaps that was too much to ask. So, I will clarify what I meant before and I am referring to those who act condescendingly toward homeschoolers and think that homeschooling is socially crippling.

and crazishone, I was also in public school before I was homeschooled. this is not an argument about who's more of the expert. how about let's prove our stances through points and premises, rather than credentials, yes?

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:

Sweet...... that'll be cool when it's done . Apogee Software said they would make "Commander Keen 2000" but they never did get to it........ too bad.

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Hmm, never heard of that, I know there are alot of fangames with similar names. Plus Apogee (publisher of Keen, now known as 3D Realms) doesn't own the rights to make Keen games, only to sell them. ID Software (creator of Keen) was going to make another Keen series called "The Universe is Toast" but games like Doom and Quake were on the high of their popularity so they lost interest in Keen but still hold the rights to make Keen games and sell them.

But Tom Hall, (co-founder and former employee of ID), he basically created Keen (main idea anyways) and wants to make another Keen game, but he isn't with ID so he doesn't own the rights and ID hasn't given it to him.

quote:

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Originally posted by dXter:
I used my dad's computer too....that old, decaying Pentium (300 GHz? 500? I don't remember)

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Ouch, you had it good, my dad's computer (which he gave to me and my sister before we and my dad got our own computers), was a Pentium 166 mhz with like 16 mb of ram, and it was a 386 before we even got that. We upgraded that thing so many times, I think the only thing that was original was the monitor and the case.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

Lazarus

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

quote:

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Originally posted by Ereon:
Frankly Crazy, I've seen more people warped by public schooling thant by any other institution, with the possible exception of home (which most people won't let you observe, they tend to slap you with restraining orders and such ). It's not like a home environment at all from all reports I've recieved or discussions I've had, noone cares about you, with the rare exception of a kind and caring teacher or the occasional true, close friend. The defining aspect of homeschooling to me is being taught and instructed about people who care about you, who want nothing but your absolute well being, who are willing to instruct you to the best of your ability, not for a paycheck, but because they love you and want you to succeed. The only occasions that anything becomes boring is when you deprive yourself of challenge. They goes for homeschooling and public school, sure you can excel, but it's much easier to excel when you've got 6 hours of free time on your hands versus a set quota of homework that usually burns whatever free time you have about 3:00, or whenever you get out, after which the only energy that tends to remain is just for "winding down". Yes, homeschooling can get boring, but only if you allow it to, only if you choose to be lazy, take the easy road, and fail to discipline your flesh to do something better for you than play video games or lay around. Whichever way you go school is what you make of it, it's what you put into it, and it's defined by how much you choose to discipline your flesh, beat down your rebellion and what you want to do, and do what you NEED to do to forge yourself into a more powerful person in body, mind, and spirit. My only observation is that public schoolers who end up that way are far fewer and farther between than, and there ends up being a much higher washout rate of people who just plain give up, most importantly, on their faith, and end up making mistakes that effect them for the rest of their lives.

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sooooo...............

who likes Bacon?

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

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sooooo...............

who likes Bacon?

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who likes Trichinosis?

Lazarus

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Originally posted by Ereon:
My only observation is that public schoolers who end up that way are far fewer and farther between than, and there ends up being a much higher washout rate of people who just plain give up, most importantly, on their faith, and end up making mistakes that effect them for the rest of their lives.

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I think kids succeed whose parents care enough to be involved in their lives. Now, of course, almost all homeschooled kids fall into this category, while only some public school kids do. I think homeschooling is a symptom of caring parents, much like academic success and strong moral character are. I did fine in public school, because my parents cared. I have many friends who were homeschooled, and many that were not. They are all successful Christians, and they all were raised well by their parents.

I just don't see the correlation you are talking about, when you compare only those people who had good parenting, in general. The only differences I have noticed is that the homeschoolers are slightly better academically and the public schoolers are better adapted socially.

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|steveth45|
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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

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Originally posted by Lava:
Hmm, never heard of that, I know there are alot of fangames with similar names. Plus Apogee (publisher of Keen, now known as 3D Realms) doesn't own the rights to make Keen games, only to sell them. ID Software (creator of Keen) was going to make another Keen series called "The Universe is Toast" but games like Doom and Quake were on the high of their popularity so they lost interest in Keen but still hold the rights to make Keen games and sell them.

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Yeah, that's what I was thinking, The Universe is toast. I just got mixed up with Jetpack (another old-time game), cuz the creators said they'd make "Jetpack 2000" but never did.... <sigh> so many false hopes and dreams falling to pieces. I got mixed up with Apogee Software and ID too.....I always mix up publishers and creators. But yeah, I guess it would be kinda weird if there were a modern Commander Keen game.... it would either be really lame and kiddish or completely different from the original Keen games.

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Originally posted by Ereon:
Yes, homeschooling can get boring, but only if you allow it to, only if you choose to be lazy, take the easy road, and fail to discipline your flesh to do something better for you than play video games or lay around.

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I agree. I have plenty to do here on my own, since I started learning programming. Besides, I think whether or not someone will get bored depends partly on the kind of person; a really social and extraverted person is more likely to get bored doing homeschool. I'm a very intraverted and exclusive person, so I probably wouldn't get bored just because there wasn't anything to do with a friend at the moment. Besides, I'm very close to my parents and siblings. I'd never heard of homeschool cooperatives, so now I know that I won't be socially isolated or anything if I do homeschool.

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

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Emo music sucks and the people who listen to Emo music also suck.
it's really that simple.

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You can say that again!

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http://www.jeremysouthard.org

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Originally posted by dXter:
I got mixed up with Apogee Software and ID too.....I always mix up publishers and creators.

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You're not the first one to mix up ID and Apogee, 3D Realms says they still get emails from people asking them if they made Quake.

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Originally posted by Ereon:
people warped by public schooling

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Warped hm? I'll take warped over brainwashed any day.

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Originally posted by crazyishone:
Warped hm? I'll take warped over brainwashed any day.

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Originally posted by mastallama:

You can say that again!

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uh, wait. no.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

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so, no public school for you either, huh?

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To clarify my stand on the debate, I think most education systems are flawed in some way. The best form of education is really self-education, but most people won't do much for themselves at all. Also if you read my first post, I didn't say "home schooling sucks", I told him the best way to get along in a public school, from my perspective. I wasn't the one who dug up this old debate.

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 04, 2006).]

anyhow, point of my little bright statement that I pondered hours over before posting was that public schools also brainwash. see, it is clever, isn't it?
...man.

now that I attend a public university, which is a sight better than a public highschool, I am still very disappointed with many facets of the system. especially if the professors have the time to talk about their own beliefs *coughpoliticalsciencecough*. most of them are trying to propagate their own beliefs and it's annoying. idiot students just soak it up.

don't feel bad, crazishone, I have nothing personal against you. I just like to argue. that is, if a person can argue. if not, I'll just incite them and walk away laughing.

yes... it's wrong.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited October 04, 2006).]

Any time you are exposed to anything and you don't reject it, you're being "brainwashed" in a sense.

If something becomes institutionalized, from religion to education, you face problems. People aren't perfect, so you get a few together and have them make rules, and what do you get?

We have to be careful not to become the brainwashed drones of any "machine". That includes organized religion, walks of life, an education system, etc.

There are so many circumstances where you have to repeat and accept what others say. For example, you probably can't conduct many complex nuclear physics experiments in your basement, so you can only repeat what you've learned, secondhand knowledge if you will.

But- any time you can see something for yourself, go to the primary source. Everyone is brainwashed to an extent, which sucks. It is incredibly annoying to look at yourself and realize you're acting like the embodiment of some cliche'.

Self-improvement is a goal that can't quite be met, and consequently lasts forever. Take it too seriously and you have a nervous breakdown, neglect it and you will never be truly happy.

Homeschooling is a great idea that is often poorly executed. The same goes for public schools.

The argument for me here is not homeschooling v. public schooling, and you can see that if you read my posts closely. My stuff is all "anti-brainwashing", against opinionated extremism, etc.

That goes for leftist kids who can do nothing but repeat the bush-hating crap the see and hear, and a guy who thinks his parent's opinion on a matter is the end-all for any debate.

What fun would we have if every time an issue arose we said "well brethren let us just agree to disagree". lame

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 04, 2006).]

Well that was lame, wasn't it? Yeah...

And on the one side we have Archangel, defender of the Order of the Homeschooling.
And on the other side, we have Crazishone, Knight of the Round Table of anti-Brainwashing.

Meh, I don't care. I hate the way I've been homeschooled, but at least I can read. And I'd probably hate public school too...

Lazarus

Rom 12:2 And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

Transforming and renewing of mind....sounds rather like brainwashing to me... You're going to have to stand for something sooner or later, or you're going to fall, so it's my resolve to seek out the truth diligently, to "prove all things", to "obstain from all appearance of evil", and "hold fast to that which is good" (I Thess. 5:21-22), and to stick to my guns and rely on the author and finisher of my faith to forge me into something of his design, his maturity and his execution.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

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Jesus looked at them and said, "With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."
--Matt. 19:26

"Time is an excellent teacher, but eventually it kills all of its students."

first of all, the argument that kids should be exposed to the world to learn how to deal with it... seriously.. you might as well argue that we should all go to porn conventions so that we can learn to deal with temptation better. The idea that kids should be exposed to a wicked environment so that they can some how grow stronger is unwise. The whole reason children must be "educated" and "raised" is because they are not capable of dealing successfully with the temptations, pressures, and dangers of the world.
They may survive being thrust into the fire, but they will almost certainly be burned and harmed.

Kids absolutely should be sheltered and protected during their upbringing. This is a basic truth throughout everything in nature. Putting any organism in an environment which it is not mature enough to deal with, or prepared for always results in harm to the organism.

Granted there are always points at which kids must be given more exposure to the world, but thats the point as well.. As they mature, they should be given more and more exposure.

From the stand point of raising your kids as christians, tossing them into the world as a form of teaching them to cope is about like tossing them to the lions, hoping they'll learn how to hunt.

Secondly, a large percentage of the "socialization" kids recieve in public schools is bad and they'd be better off without it. The idea that homeschooling produces sheltered, shy, introverted kids is a complete misconception. If you want your kids to learn to interact with people there are FAR FAR better ways to go about it than public schools. Most of the homeschool kids I know are very socialized, and very active in their communities, far more so than most of the public school kids I know. Homeschooling is much more time efficient than public schools as a result homeschool kids are able to have time to devote to community service and volunteering in charitable, political, religious, or community organizations. While in public school the kids can get their socialization from picking on each other, and from peer pressure to conform or be hated.. they can get it from volunteering at a hospital, or a food bank, or a church where they actually dealing with different kinds of people, learning to tolerate and even appreciate the differences.
further, most communities of any size have homeschool cooperative organizations which offer the same programs that public schools do, such as choir, band, dance classes etc.. the difference being homeschoolers have more time for them.

Lastly, the public school system, in general does a terrible job of educating. The educational philosophy underlying the public education system (in the US at any rate) is fundamentally flawed and as a result it has been in a continual state of degredation since it was instituted over a century ago. You might be interested to know that literacy has decreased at a steady, constant, rate since the institution of public schools in the mid 19th century. Prior to that time literacy rates in the US were in the high 90's percentile. For a hundred years prior to public schools in the US the literacy rate among men was nearly 100% and in the hundred years prior to public schools the literacy rate among women rose from around 50% into the 90's percentile. Since public schools both have fallen steadily. Right now, only about a quarter of the US population is considered proficient in the areas of reading and writing with only about a third of college grads achieving proficiency in those areas. Around a third or so of the population is functionally illiterate. The rest of the population hovers in the spectrum in between with more than half of the population functioning at or below the level of reading skill necessary to follow a newspaper editorial.

Further, public education has outright killed the study of classics in the US. Areas of education considered essential to the formation of well rounded human beings for hundreds of years have been neglected into oblivion. Whats worse the basic reading, and reasoning skills necessary to grasp those topic areas have, for the most part, ceased to exist in american education.

The truth is that american public education is much more about indoctrination than it is about education.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

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Originally posted by Ereon:
Frankly Crazy you're going to get brainwashed no matter what. If you resist resist something for the sake of being not brainwashed, then you automatically become a brainwashed anti-brainwasher.

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Everyone is brainwashed to an extent, which sucks. It is incredibly annoying to look at yourself and realize you're acting like the embodiment of some cliche'.

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See?

Simon_templar, I'd like to see where you got those numbers.

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wicked environment

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picking on each other, and from peer pressure to conform or be hated..

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How am I supposed to take you seriously when you throw around statements like that.

@Ereon: The Bible has no legitimate place in a debate anymore. Maybe before, but it is no longer accepted as a factual standard. Even if you believe it is, that doesn't qualify it. You can't base an argument on an arguable source

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[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 05, 2006).]

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@Ereon: The Bible has no legitimate place in a debate anymore. Maybe before, but it is no longer accepted as a factual standard. Even if you believe it is, that doesn't qualify it. You can't base an argument on an arguable source

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

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however, if you think the verse being quoted doesn't have relevance to the argument, or doesn't serve as a good support for an argument, you can point that out.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

As for the Bible not having any legitimate place in debate, for me it's one of the primary pillars of my life and any debate, discussion, or conundrum that I embroil myself in. If others choose to negate it however, that's their affair, their descision, but I'm sticking to my guns. You can cook up as many reasons as you like that the Bible isn't true, that it's not relevant, that it's an "arguable source", but if you live by it, you trust it, and you put it to the test, I garuntee that it has everything you need and are searching for right inside those pages. You can say it's an arguable source all you wish, but I've lived almost sixteen and a half years now, and I have yet to see any serious, solid evidence to the contrary.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited October 05, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited October 05, 2006).]

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for me it's one of the primary pillars of my life and any debate, discussion, or conundrum that I embroil myself in. If others choose to negate it however, that's their affair, their descision, but I'm sticking to my guns.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

I suppose I need to word my posts better to my audience or something, I'm having to explain myself alot lately....

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

The Great Jumblore wrote my evidence - the Jumblore Holy Book. And how do I know that's true? Because it says in there that he wrote it!

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Originally posted by ArchAngel:
wrong. the Bible, here on Christian Coders, is still held as a valid premise for arguement.
in a debate, you need to understand which premises can be accepted and which need to be proved, depending on who your talking to.

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[This message has been edited by Lava (edited October 05, 2006).]

I know you're just messing around, and it's not you I am replying this to. But the whole argument I have seen people put up against Christians.

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P.S. If you want to continue the discussion it might be better to us PMs, that way the whole thread doesn't get hijacked.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited October 05, 2006).]

The Jumblore Holy Book prophesized that the sky would be yellow until humans were created, at which point it became blue. There was a Great Flood of chocolate milk which is backed up by the same Flood arguments you guys use. The chocolate milk was later turned into ice water, but you can still find calcium deposits in the soil here and there. Some further evidence is that I have met the Great Jumblore. Like you, I have not met Allah so I too can ignore the Koran's so-called "evidence". Anyone who claims to have met Allah is wrong.

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How far that little candle throws its beams; So shines a good deed in a naughty world.

Portia The Merchant of Venice

But, let me point this out:
Islam. Mohammed created it after supposedly having visions.
Buddhism. Students of an atheist saying he is a god, I'd assume for monetary reasons, but look what happened.
Hinduism. Similar to the ancient Greeks' religion. Pretty much all of it is unsubstantiated and/or written up by some guy who was probably quaffing the ale a bit too much. Hey, there goes the Sacred Cow! Bow before it's omnipotence! (over here in America I bite into a juicy hamburger). So where's the power of the cow, huh?
Mormonism. Joseph Smith claims to have been visited by an angel and creates this screwy religion(sorry, that's just my opinion of it after reading about it a lot). Again, followers are totally basing it on one guy.
Jumbloresianism. Founded by some guy named CheeseStorm who claimed to have been given the Jumblore Holy book by the Great Jumblore. Lol .

Whereas, with Christianity the power of God is and has been visible all through history and today.
Some guy didn't just write up the Bible and say, "Everyone follow this."
It's a collection of history from the beginning of mankind.
It really happened, all of this stuff.

Unlike the Jumblore Holy Book:
Sasternas chapter 2 verse 1. The first commandment.
"You shall not eat Mozzarella cheese."
The second commandment.
"Buy Febreeze every day! This is the greatest commandment, and there is a second. You must eat two apples at each meal."
Some random verses I picked out of the JHB, New American Standard Version:
"He stepped toward the cliff, squinting in the bright sun. Far below the rain lashed rocks steamed and cracked, the clouds of hot air blowing toward the sky. She rolled the motorbike onto the ramp and gunned the engine. As Dave parachuted down toward the dirt below, he reflected on what his wife had said that morning.
"Get out of the car now!", the agent screamed, lunging toward the limo. As her eyes widened in horror, Jerry lifted the gun."

So profound...

Wow, I've never been so eloquent before.

Lazarus

I'm really not trying to troll here, although you might find my persistence annoying. Even if you know you're right, you can't use that fact alone as evidence. That's why all holy books are on the same footing. They all say they're right but can't prove it.

As for public schools, I'm way LESS sociable after finishing them. In most cases, if you want to learn anything interesting you will have to home-school yourself.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

only problem is hes wrong cuz hes an atheist (im pretty sure, dont like, go medieval on me if im wrong and youre like agnostic or something). =D

plus you end up eating him eventually anyways. (i know i said name puns aside, but i just had to)

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[This message has been edited by buddboy (edited October 06, 2006).]

Lazarus

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hes like, a living, breathing, homosapion. plus he's smart. and he doesn't 'troll'. plus he doesn't make comments like, 'deh, dats so sutpid and g*y... f*** you, im gonna go play some Oblivion'

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
-Sydney Carton, Tale of Two Cities
Soterion Studios

[This message has been edited by simon_templar (edited October 07, 2006).]