General Discussions

Ouch, The Mark? – certordin

CertOrdin

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: 06-17-2004
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17834

I dont know anything about worldnetdaily but this came up when i was looking up something totally unrelated. Its very scary sounding. Quite Tribuation peroid sounding stuff. We maybe very close the coming of Jesus.

CO

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Wow.. I remember Glenn Beck talking about that last year. He was joking around making a fake advertisment, bringing out all the satanic things he could make up (version 6.66 and stuff like that) And then he would keep saying things like "This is NOT the mark of the beast!" I only read the first part, but thats enough for me. I just hope it dosent move on very far very fast.. I still have alot to do down here! Sometimes I hope I get to stay here, and catch up after bringing people in. But then agian the Bible doesent ever say that its a pre-trib rapture... I just wanna be able to help people out during that time.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
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Yahoo: namerobbedagian

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
haha, I had to write a paper on that.
and... I referenced that article too. lol.

man, it comes back to haunt me.


ID tags are an interesting idea, has advantages, but is dangerious and should be not taken lightly. but, it's not as dangerous and some make it out to be.

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"Patience, my good citizen, patience. It's bad enough to rob a man of his dream"
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goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
It dosent seem like it.. but imagine what could come of it. I dont see anything wrong with it now, its actualy a neat idea, but it is matching up a bit. At the moment its definatly not a mark of any kind, but its quite possible that could happen.
Illegal aliens can come into the USA, then be given citizenship, and not having to pay taxes. On the other hand, Legals could go to prison for doing things illegals get away with. If the government can get away with that, why not force everyone to use a chip for money information? At Best Buy cant you buy stuff with your membership card? I may be wrong.. But if thats the case, it would be very possible to use a chip in your wrist (yes, thats where they put it) to buy stuff with.

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Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited June 01, 2006).]

Tonnyx

Member

Posts: 140
From: Indiana, USA
Registered: 08-02-2005
I don't really like the idea of an implanted chip, but that has more to do with my opinions on privacy than on eschatology.

A friend of mine pointed out that the whole "mark of the beast" thing is not all that important in and of itself. The thing to worry about is whether one worships the beast or the living God. Being a Christian, and one who worships the true and living God, and him alone, the other stuff is not what we should be worried about. I thought that was an interesting point.

I'd like to also point out something else: I haven't really studied Revelation in depth, but I noticed something the last time I read through Exodus. In chapter 13, the Israelites are told twice that observing the Passover "will be like a sign on your hand and a symbol on your forehead", a reminder that the law of the Lord is to be on your lips, and a reminder that the Lord brought them out of Egypt with his mighty hand. Deuteronomy also talks about tying God's word as symbols on your hand and forehead in conjunction with keeping his word fixed in our hearts and minds.

As far as I know, those are the only three books that talk about symbols or marks on one's hand & forehead. I am guessing, therefore, that we should understand Revelation in the context of Exodus & Deuteronomy: that something more figurative than literal may be in view (although I realize that some Jews interpret the passages literally, and wear phylacteries).

How one "forces" people to take the mark, as Revelation states, I don't know. <totally irresponsible speculation>Who knows? Forcing kids to go to government-run schools wherein kids grow up indoctrinated with atheism or paganism? (hold on, that sounds like certain Communist countries)</speculation> That may not be specifically what's in view at all, but I suspect that it's something more subtle than we might normally think.

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it's pronounced "tonics"

[This message has been edited by tonnyx (edited June 05, 2006).]

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by tonnyx:
but I suspect that it's something more subtle than we might normally think.

yeah..like the the next gen iPod!!! If you flip the 'p' around in ipod, you get -> igod!! YIKES!! Everyone is going to fall for this, be carefull!!!

seriously, I make a joke but to think of a time (maybe in our lifetime) were we must choose between taking a 'mark' that indicates in some why our rejection of Christ, whatever form this might be, - or starving or seeing our kids starve and being hunted like criminals is definitely NO JOKE! scary!

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
um... you catch them, take hold of their arm/head, and go *kachunk* and put it in. lol.

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Realm Master

Member

Posts: 1971
From: USA
Registered: 05-15-2005
Lol, i read about that stuff in Cosumer (spell check) reports! (of all things for a 14 yr. old to read!)

and if so, then its so.

ITs bound to happen sometime, but lets not worry untill we know forsure (Not like, God;s not coming so lets do bad stuff worry, but say-the-government-is-satanic worry)


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RA Games

Member

Posts: 93
From: Sacramento, Ca., USA
Registered: 05-22-2006
"Big Brother gets under your skin"

Yes, yes yes! , Ahaa!!! This type of technology is absolutely perfect for those who choose to disobey Allah and the false prophet yet to come from europe. Yes, we can monitor those who disobey the prophet, and then kill them.

What would old Ayatolla Khomeni say?

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

[This message has been edited by RA Games (edited June 05, 2006).]

[This message has been edited by RA Games (edited June 05, 2006).]

Thegpfury
Member

Posts: 53
From:
Registered: 03-23-2006
Whoever said that the mark of the beast would be a computer chip? Every generation has its own idea of what one would be...

It could be something as simple as a tatoo, or something as complex as a chip.

I wouldn't worry until we see a definite antichrist figure ruling most of the world saying we have to take this chip.

Besides, as a pre-trib, I won't be here for that, so bring it on.

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[This message has been edited by thegpfury (edited June 05, 2006).]

luke

Member

Posts: 311
From: I use your computer as my second Linux box
Registered: 10-30-2005
Well, my position on privacy is this: its OK if a responsible entity (ie the Government) has data like your location, vital signs, etc. The catch is that the Government shouldn't be able to access any of it. Hospitals only should be able to access your vital signs and well search n rescue your GPS. This is a somewhat simple and probably nieve example, so don't go around saying I support Big Brother please. =D

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"Do not condemn others for their ignorance, use it against them."
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CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by thegpfury:
It could be something as simple as a tatoo, or something as complex as a chip.

..or a underskin microchip wafer w/ an rf antenna tattoo, like this(3 spiralling 6's would probably make a good antenna layout)...
Read the description's of the three images, pretty convenient:
RF Tag

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by thegpfury:
Whoever said that the mark of the beast would be a computer chip? Every generation has its own idea of what one would be...

It could be something as simple as a tatoo, or something as complex as a chip.

I wouldn't worry until we see a definite antichrist figure ruling most of the world saying we have to take this chip.

Besides, as a pre-trib, I won't be here for that, so bring it on.


Whoever said it wouldent be permenant marker? xD The antichrist wont be as easy to pick out as that. ALTHOUGH I wouldent take that chip anyway. Or do anything Im forced to with everyone for that matter. (atleast when it comes to apearance related things ) Who says the mark isnt a shirt, or a hairstyle?

And as an anti pre-trib, I think Ill look out for such things, and keep my life straightened out. The Bible says nothing about timing of the rapture, although by what Ive read, I would have to asume its NOT the popular "pre-trib" belief (Thats ok, I wanna be able to help new christians in those tough times)

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[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited June 06, 2006).]

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
#1 I don't think the government is a resonponsible entity
#2 the government, if it gains too much power (which it is/has) is the greatest threat there is to the freedom of the people.
#3 hopefully this won't pissoff too many people, but the pre-trib rapture is a bad teaching resulting from taking scriptures grossly out of context.

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Lazarus

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Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Yes, I agree with S_T, where in the Bible does it say anything about a rapture?
Some Christians think the Tribulation has already happened, or that it is happening right now, as well.
If you ask me, it was mostly created so people could write best-sellers about it and make a ton of money .

Lazarus

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Lazarus

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by Lazarus:
Yes, I agree with S_T, where in the Bible does it say anything about a rapture?
Some Christians think the Tribulation has already happened, or that it is happening right now, as well.
If you ask me, it was mostly created so people could write best-sellers about it and make a ton of money .

Lazarus


(1 Thessalonians 4:13-18)
But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

Many Christians describe this with the term 'rapture'


dictionary.com definition (look at # 3):

rapĚture ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rpchr)

n.
1. The state of being transported by a lofty emotion; ecstasy.
2. An expression of ecstatic feeling. Often used in the plural.
3. The transporting of a person from one place to another, especially to heaven.


Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Yes, but most people including some Christians tend to think of the "Rapture" as some mysterious world event where all the Christians disappear.

That verse would contradict the approach above. But in the context it is there, I think yes, there will be a rapture.

Lazarus

nfektious
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Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18 speaks of the dead who were believers being raised to life and also those living who are believers all joining Christ as he returns to this earth to do all the things spoken of in Revelation. If this is the "Rapture" so many people have come to believe in, then there has to be a second return of Christ to Heaven *and* a third return of Christ to this earth. Remember that Revelation also tells us that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem. If Christ is coming to get us and takes us to Heaven to escape the "Tribulation" then he has to come back to earth again to establish His reign, right? So where in scripture is this second ascension to Heaven and this third return of Christ to earth prophecied? Also, we have plenty of examples of the "Tribulation" throughout scripture, but what basis is there in scripture for the "Rapture" - of God removing all his followers from going through a period of trial and tribulation?
One short passage of scripture is hardly enough to build a solid theological conclusion on. Forgive me if I come across arrogant, but I try to apply 2 Timothy 3:16 to every so-called biblical concept when I evaluate all the religious philosophies that exist or come to exist. I firmly believe that all of scripture works together and build my faith in that way.

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited June 07, 2006).]

Lazarus

Member

Posts: 1668
From: USA
Registered: 06-06-2006
Isn't the New Jerusalem going to be in heaven?
Jesus said that His kingdom was not of this realm, where do you get that He will reign in some New Jerusalem on earth?
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
New Jerusalem: Refer to Revelation 3 and Revelation 21.

Yes, Christ did say that his kingdom was not of this earth. But what was the context of him saying that?
As is the case with many of the prophecies, they are repeated and sometimes one prophecy on some topic comes with slightly more detail than another prophecy on the same topic. Revelation - like many other prophecies before it - is not a chronological account, many people make that mistake.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
The new Jeruselem is going to be on the new Earth I think.. Im not sure weather this earth is gonna be replaced, or if the new earth is talking about heaven. In revelations it talks about the dead going to a new place to watch whats happening on earth during the 7 seals. Firstly, the 7 seals, as far as I know, have not been opened Secondly, the dead are not still alive, therefore the living, not having been mentioned, I would asume would still be on earth while this is happening. All it takes is a bit of logic

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CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
If this is the "Rapture" so many people have come to believe in, then there has to be a second return of Christ to Heaven *and* a third return of Christ to this earth. Remember that Revelation also tells us that Christ will reign from the New Jerusalem. If Christ is coming to get us and takes us to Heaven to escape the "Tribulation" then he has to come back to earth again to establish His reign, right? So where in scripture is this second ascension to Heaven and this third return of Christ to earth prophecied? Also, we have plenty of examples of the "Tribulation" throughout scripture, but what basis is there in scripture for the "Rapture" - of God removing all his followers from going through a period of trial and tribulation?

I never mentioned it being pretrib or posttrib or midtrib. I just indicated why people believe there will be a rapture, as also supported in this verse:

(Luk 17:34-37)
I tell you, in that night there shall be two men in one bed; the one shall be taken, and the other shall be left. Two women shall be grinding together; the one shall be taken, and the other left. Two men shall be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left. And they answered and said unto him, Where, Lord? And he said unto them, Wheresoever the body is, thither will the eagles be gathered together.

However technically you could possibly view it as Jesus doesn't 'come down to Earth' at this time, he just meets us in the air!

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I never realy got the 'two men in one bed' part.. It seems a bit gay. Whatever, I guess things were different back then...

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CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by Goop2:
I never realy got the 'two men in one bed' part.. It seems a bit gay. Whatever, I guess things were different back then...


close family eh?

houses back then probably didn't have the 8+ rooms we have now, probably more like 1 room studio apts.

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Most homes back in the time of Christ and before Christ were very simple one room dwellings...the exception being the Roman architecture that was developed and integrated into parts of Jewish society when Rome took over the area.
However, looking at it from a future prophecy perspective, the scenario indicates hard times for those living - being forced to share a home with another family, make food instead of buy it, etc.

On the issue of the New Heaven, New Earth, and New Jerusalem:
It is interesting to note that Isaiah has something to say on the subject in chapters 65 and 66. The translation is a bit different than what we have in Revelation, and I think Isaiah represents the concept in a more correct way than Revelation does - that is, the Hebrew of Isaish is better in conveying the message than the Jewish-influenced Greek of Revelation. I find it interesting how the phrasing is in Isaiah about the past being forgotten and never again thought about versus the phrasing in Revelation that the former has passed away. Certainly can lead to vastly different conclusions.

Another interesting observation about the supposedly utopian notion of eternity: Read Isaiah 66:15-24.

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited June 08, 2006).]