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Islam will rule? – warsong




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I use to say 5 years ago that the Muslim religion is not good and I get attacked by all sides and say I judge, I am this and that, and other bad things. Now after 5 years some people turn around after they get a reality kick in the head to agree. Some understand by listening to other popular people that talk about the religion, they see the actions in what they do, etc. I get treated the same ignorant ways with other thing I have said but people will only understand since it is too late, since many want to learn the hard way always.

Anyway "Islam will take over Europe without violent"
http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50020
Libyan Leader Moammar Gadhafi actually said "The 50 million Muslims of Europe will turn it into a Muslim continent within a few decades."

Well the US must be proud since they help air, fund, train, and attack/bomb people like most Christian nations to bring Muslim in. Non EU members are pressuring other Muslim countries to go into the EU.

"Europe is in a predicament, and so is America," Gadhafi said. "They should agree to become Islamic in the course of time, or else declare war on the Muslims."

You can’t blame them since they are playing by the rules and it is the Christians that are failing since it is not a growing religion like the Muslim one. This is what happens when non Christians do not do anything and let others walk all over them. They know that they can not win a way so another way to do it is by taking advantage of silly rules that the countries put in. Some countries refutes to allow Muslim mosks so that they do not come into the country while other make many and more keep coming in. The ones that do not allow Muslim mosks they are forced to or else they will face problems with the UN, EU, and US which Christians do not have full control over any of them.

If things persist their will be no "French" people, "Spaniards" or many other to see their cultures and traditions within 25-50 years from now. Even your grand kids or kids might concert to Islam and cast away Christianity.

You see how every Muslim nation is a 3rd world country and the poorest country in Europe is the only Muslim one. The rest of Europe will follow if they keep ignoring and giving so many social liberal programs to them. Well what else you expect from the Muslim religion where it took many of its influence from its fellow non Christian cousin's ideology the Talmud/Torah. But yet some will disagree with that too, I guess I will wait another 5 years.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
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luke

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I agree that Europe will become Islamisiced, but not in the same fashion as you are. The 'take over' of Europe by Muslims is much akin to the *possible* 'take over' of America by Mexicans. I don't mind Mexicans, most of them in my opinion are good people that are desparate. The problem with Muslims is that well... they're the people that chop heads, hang bodies, use suicide bombs, and are very irrational. But there is a difference between European Muslims and 'arab' Muslims. Many European Muslims assimilate into the culture successfully (We only here about those that *don't*) and basically we will have a Muslim Europe, but Muslim Europe should probably be pretty much like current Europe, but Muslim. Thats my two cents too many

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

Ereon

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So you're saying that Europe and the US should become a theocracy? Isn't that, taken from previous historical refrences, a bad idea? Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely. If you put Christianity at the head of government, and give even the strongest of Christians too much power is it not likely that it will corrupt said persons and end up causing even more pain and suffering and damage to Christianity itself?

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

luke

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Europe being 'overrun' by Muslims != Christian theocracy
EBOBM == Muslim Theocratic Rule

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

Ereon

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EBOBM?

English please

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

crazyishone

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europe being overrun by muslims.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

Tonnyx

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I would like to note that part of Islam's success in Europe has to do with the fact that Islam is absolutist. They believe that their view of reality is truly reality. They have a purpose to fulfill, and a reasonably well-defined value system to boot.

Mainstream Europe and America, on the other hand, are becoming more and more relativistic, even existential. No view of reality is real, and any meaning in life is, at best, a set of working assumptions that make life easier to deal with.

Is it any wonder that the birth rate of native Europeans is shrinking? Why bother creating more meaningless things that are expensive and a big bother anyways? And is it any wonder that Muslims, who have a high view of the family, a clear notion of the purposes of the family, and a purpose to fulfill on the earth appear to be on track to take over Europe? How much can a person or a nation or a sub-continent really care to oppose an ideology when it believes that you're not allowed to analyze, judge, and potentially criticize anybody else's beliefs?

Will America fare any better? Only by the grace and intervention of God. The culture and public school education have, in decentering education from the traditional emphases of Western history and philosophy, caused us to forget our roots, and to forget how Christianity shaped and strengthened Western culture. This could prove a fatal weakness.

I say "us", because I'm still struggling with the fact that I do not know historical Western thought all that well, and I would like to have grown up with an education and a worldview such as Francis Schaeffer advocated. It's hard to play catch-up, but I would like to slowly work at it, and hopefully raise my kids that way. I am currently reading a book by his son, Franky Schaeffer - [u]Fake Pearls for Real Swine[/u], and it totally rocks. Everyone should read it. I don't agree with everything he says, but it's fabulously thought-provoking and everyone should read it.

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it's pronounced "tonics"

luke

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Yeah, another example of strong moral beliefs are the Mormoms. I know several Mormans myself and although they have some very *strange* beliefs, they also have very strong morals. At any rate at least they are way ahead of us PC westerners.

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

Ereon

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PC?

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

luke

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politically correct ie all cultures/religions/countries/sexual orientations etc are equal...

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

nfektious
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It should not come as a shock that the propaganda of the Islam extremists is being denied as part of the Islamic system by Muslims and non-Muslims alike. It should not come as a shock that several prominent "Christian" people help spread this denial of extreme Islamic propaganda as being totally disassociated with Islam. And yet the question remains - why are the Imams and various Muslim clerics that speak these falsehoods in power if they do not speak the truth of Islam, and why has the majority of the (true, peaceful, tolerant?) Islam nation done nothing to resolve the problem? What we have here is the right hand and left hand of the same beast.
Anyone who knows the roots of Islam and has studied the history of these people is aware of the truth of Islam. "Infidels" is a term that applies to all non-Muslim people, even those same non-Muslim people that herald Islam beside the well-mannered and well-dressed Muslim. Unfortunately many people do not understand the ideology of thought within the Islamic system. There is only peace within the Islamic society when everyone is Islamic. It is a serious crime - against the person and Allah - for a Muslim to steal, rape, kill, etc, against another Muslim. It is not a crime to do so against any non-Muslim, even if they are supportive of Islam. There are two sets of rules - one for the Muslim-to-Muslim reality, and another for the Muslim-to-Infidel reality. Islam is not the only religion with two sets of rules (Mormonism comes to mind, since it was mentioned).
Islam is gaining sentiment, spreading like the cancer it is across the face of the globe. The mainstream press won't reveal the connection between the ethnic cleansing we hear about in Africa and Asia with Islam (hard to speak out against the people that pay your salary). With all of this sentiment and disinformation and propaganda over Islam, is it any wonder why Israel will be attacked by the nations surrounding her? Is it any wonder why those who believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob will be slaughtered, and those who escape will be forced into hiding? Is it any wonder why Islam has been understood as a religion about a relationship with the true God when it is nothing of the sort? This is intentional...but fortunately the true God, not some false god, will prevail. We must maintain our faith and fortitude through the righteousness of Christ, the risen LORD.

I intended to ask a simple question, but was impressed to post all the above first. I wanted to ask: How does a person have true morals if their system of beliefs is based on false information?

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited May 19, 2006).]

Ereon

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Like Warsong is so fond of saying, the road to Hell is paved with good intentions. It seems to me that the only intentions that we can know for certain won't go awry and cause pain nad suffering are perfect intentions, and the only perfect intentions are those that are in direct line with God's intentions. Similarly it seems like the only morals that can be called true morals are perfect morals, those that coincide with God and His set of morals. I base this conjecture off of these two verses.

Joh 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

And

Joh 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

If Satan is the father of lies, and Jesus (and therefore God, since they are one) is THE truth, then anything that is a lie (not true) would lead to destruction, death, and pain. Therefore, unless a set of morals is perfectly true (a feat only accomplishable by is being based on God himself, who is THE truth) then however good it was it would still contain lies, and therefore cause hurt and sin. Therefore, drawing from this, my answer would be no, you can't have true morals without God, and even with God it takes a constant connection with God's morals and renewing of your mind to be Christlike and therefore maintain that system of true morality. That's just my take on the subject, what do you think?

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

luke

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By morals I mean 'good behavior' It won't get my friends into Heaven, but if your take the (probably false) Dante version of Hell; they will be on a better level then say a nonbeliever murderer.... but since God equates a lie with murder with bad thoughts, it doesn't matter beyond this life...

Well Mormanism is still false, im just praising their comparitively high public morals.... I don't have a clue what they do in those temples, probably nothing good, but as far as the public is concerned I think that Mormans have 'good' morals..

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

Ereon

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So why are you only trying to get them to a "better" level?

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

Tonnyx

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quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
How does a person have true morals if their system of beliefs is based on false information?

Rom 1:20 says, "For since the creation of the world God's invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that men are without excuse."

Rom 2:14 says, "Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law...."

I'm interpreting "true" morals as things we would agree with, e.g., not lying, not stealing, etc. As opposed to a set of morals that think that adultery is good, lying is okay, etc. Since we are human, we are all created in God's image, albeit a defaced image, and it seems that these things are written in people's hearts.

An interesting related topic to note is the doctrine of total depravity. I'm loosely quoting from a systematic theology I was reading a few weeks ago: total depravity does not mean that everyone is *as corrupt* as they could be -- we are not all literal murderers, thieves, adulterers, etc.; total depravity means that everyone the corruption extends to every part of a person's being. Emotions, intellect, desires, etc., are all corrupted by sin.

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it's pronounced "tonics"

Simon_Templar

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One of the great differences between Christianity and all other religions is that Christianity is not fundamentally about a moral code, or ethical behavior, it is about Jesus Christ.

Don't get me wrong, the morals, the ethics, the obedience are all necessary and true parts of the religion, but at the center its not about a moral teaching, its about having the life of Christ within you.

If you take Christ out of christianity you might as well have budhism, or islam, or judaism, or hinduism because they all teach ehtical behavior and codes of morality.

Christianity teaches Christ.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

luke

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^What Simon Said^ Morals w/o Christ = nothing... Christ w/o morals = enough
Christ w/ Morals = preferable.

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Omnia Vos Estis Cordatis

CheeseStorm
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nfektious, I don't see many of your posts but they are always full of wisdom.

To all: Why do you believe in a vengeful God? "Getting even" is a problem for people and animals with easily hurt feelings.




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I didn’t want to reply but o well.

Nfektious
I agree. Also the same can be said about the Talmud which inspired Islam.

Simon you said
"If you take Christ out of Christianity you might as well have Buddhism, or Islam, or Judaism, or Hinduism because they all teach ethical behavior and codes of morality."
No they do not teach proper morality. Everyone interprets "good" in their own way, which is why there so many sects and religions. If you call the other views moral then that is a scary view on what you find as moral if you really believe it. Everyone has their own interpretation of peace and morals. You make it sound like Christianity bring morals or more morals than the other. The morals the others you mentioned got it from the same place Christianity did which the post in the religious forum indicates a few point about it. Also you learned a lot since last year but still a lot to know so keep it up.

Luke
You need morals and Christ and to say you can do without morals just goes against Christ. You can talk the walk but you are not walking the walk in other words. Saying you have faith without acting on it is useless. It is like someone saying they have faith in you, and they go do bad things under your name like kill, torched, and help make things worse for future generation. Do you say they are good people? Like the saying as Ereon pointed out the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Faith alone is nothing without action.

Muslim Europe will not be like current Europe, it will be a 3d world country. Look at many places Muslims have taken over that use to be non Muslim and now the country looks like a war zone. The places that do look fine is because of a lot of non Muslim blind Christian and secular aid went to help them and build it.

As for Europe being run by Muslim or secular views that Christian views is insane. If you feel that Christianity is the best religion then you should want that to spread and not be taken away by people that use the system to spread their evil ways. Just because Europe has been influenced with liberal views to bring more Muslims doesn’t mean that is a good thing. Maybe some should go to a monastery and see how things run.

cheese
Vengeance cause more vengeance, and makes the victim be just as bad as or worse than the one that started the problem. Other religions find it ok but it doesn’t grasp the logical consequences of it. If you hit someone then they will hit you and you will also want to hit them back since you don’t want to be even or they hit a little harder, and so on until big problem come after it. You generally can not do good with negative actions.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodox Info

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited May 19, 2006).]

CheeseStorm
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I was talking about your God, since Hell is eternal punishment, so God gets even. So why does he need to?
Simon_Templar

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warsong,

its true that there are fundamental differences between the moral teachings of Christianity and the other religions which do necessarily produce different results. What I was referring to is that on the surface they are very similar. Budhism teaches selfless compassion for all mankind, Islam has virtually an identical moral code because its based on the same ten commandments etc. Judaism, of course is the closest of all having almost no difference morally.

Cheesestorm,

God is not vengeful in character, because his vengance is tempered by mercy, love, and justice. God does, however, take vengance. We often equate vengence with 'getting even' which is not particularly just, but primarily selfish in nature.. ie I'm going to hurt you, because you hurt me.

God's vengance is not like this. It is not about getting even, or selfish retaliation, but about giving people what they have earned. It is justice. One of the promises of scripture is that when Jesus returns he will "trouble" the people who have "troubled" his people. In otherwords, those who have persecuted God's people will recieve in like kind, what they dished out. This is not because God has a burning desire to hurt people who hurt him, but rather because God's nature is to render unto everyone, what they have earned, especially judged by what they have done to others.

God's vengance is not emotional in the sense that we think of it. The bible says "God takes no pleasure in the death of the wicked but would rather that they repent and come to righteousness" (paraphrased).

This is one reason I'm of the opinion that many christians who take pleasure in condeming even the wicked, and are gleeful in pronouncing God's hatred on people (according to their view) are probably in for a rude suprise. It is likely that they will find God renders unto them what they desired for others.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

nfektious
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On the Talmud:
When abused - that is, used for what it is not intended - yes, it can lead people away from what it was meant for...like anything else abused. Think about it. I mean, really...why would an Arab care about a bunch of writings and commentary by Jews, much less build a religion practically plagiarizing it? How much nonsense has to be piled up for people to see it? Even more, how much fact? Sigh. "It's the end of the world as we know it, and I feel fine." Shame, shame.

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited May 19, 2006).]

Simon_Templar

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From: Eau Claire, WI USA
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I don't believe that Islam will be the "big bad guy" at the end of the world as we know it, simply because I believe Islam will be severely put down by major military defeats prior to that time.

I believe the crisis with Islam will infact be the catalyst that begins the end game scenario, but Islam itself will be severely diminished.


It is an interesting note that Islam despite its obvious historical links to Judaism, and Christianity, has never been hated by the same people who hate Judaism and Christianity. The nazi's you would expect would hate Islam and Arabs as much as Jews and christians, but just the opposite is true.. the nazi's were closely allied to islamic leaders.

The theosophists and the current new agers who descend from them view Judaism and traditional christianity as obstacles to world peace and the advancement of mankind into the next golden age... yet they have never really had a problem with Islam.

I believe that the islamic nations will usher in the end game by starting a massive war with Israel in which they will be severely defeated. At that point Islam will become yet another part of a global new age humanistic religion proposed by the UN or whatever successor to the UN holds sway at that time.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

CapnStank

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From: Sask, Canada
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So are you saying that Islam will sort of be the Austria (WWI Reference, I think it was them) of the "end game scenario?" That technically they won't end it, but others will use their excuse to rage war on others. Sort of how Germany went for France using the Austrian incident as an excuse.

See the problem I have with many wars is that countries stick their noses in where they don't belong, hence WWI. If there is a massive Islamic war I wouldn't doubt that major powers take sides and it escalades into something much worse.

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"The only people on Earth who do not see Christ and His teachings as nonviolent are Christians". - Mahatma Gandhi




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Simon
Obviously the others are different but to say Judaism is close to it morally would be a far distance second and it is more similar to the Muslim than Christian. Cheesestorm asked about vengeance and you obviously know that both Muslim and Jewish religion are similar in that moral issue, and a big list of other things which shows how similar they are but the protestant sects to wan t to mix that opposite religion as the same which only brings problems and they don’t want to see the vast differences. Judaism’s view of morals and justice are different and anyone else that says otherwise is trying to sell you their religion. This is what happened when church fathers get pushed aside for people’s opinions swayed by political interests. You can find similar in everything but the big thing is the differences. Some might say people are people and that gay should marry since men and women are the same, then they will keep denying the truth till they say mammals are all the same, as one article I posted once how a Jewish woman married a dolphin. In other words we have to look at it as a whole and not just one side.

In your comment when you talk about Gods people, who are gods people? I hope you answer that everyone is. But your answer was good Also the people that condemn others are the ones that help hurt Christianity and push people away from it just like the protestant and Catholic Church have done for centuries. Also the facts that some people confuse condemn with judge or preach which tries to prevent Christians from explaining what is improper. We can’t be the nail in the coffin of where someone will go but we have to point out what they are doing so that we help them go to the right place but if they don’t do what is right then that is their choice.

Nfektious
Your comment has been said about the Muslim religion. In the end actions speak louder than words and what their religious leaders say to each other which they cheer for what goes on than what they tell us. In other words you are falling into the same trap that many others that think Muslim is a peaceful religion and use that point of view. But even if you did know it all, it’s not like you or anyone else can do anything about it.

To continue what ereon said which he excluded which some could misinterpret and not see it for what it is.
8:39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Jesus saith unto them, If ye were Abraham’s children, ye would do the works of Abraham.
8:40 But now ye seek to kill me, a man that hath told you the truth, which I have heard of God: this did not Abraham.
8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have one Father, even God.
8:42 Jesus said unto them, If God were your Father, ye would love me: for I proceeded forth and came from God; neither came I of myself, but he sent me.
8:43 Why do ye not understand my speech? even because ye cannot hear my word.
Joh 8:44 Ye are of father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do.

In the end all christians are “Heretics” and Anti semitic (well the muslims are more semitic now lol)in the eyes of those 2 religions. The big religions that do not have a big problem with Christians seem to be Hinduism and Buddhism, even though they have a problem with Catholicism and the Protestant sects since they tried to force them to convert and did bad unchristian things to them.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodox Info

CheeseStorm
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It's just ridiculous. If they had nukes, they'd use them on us in an instant. They should thank Allah that we haven't decided to wipe them all out in a single afternoon.
webmaster

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quote:
Originally posted by simon_templar:

Cheesestorm,

God is not vengeful in character, because his vengance is tempered by mercy, love, and justice. God does, however, take vengance. We often equate vengence with 'getting even' which is not particularly just, but primarily selfish in nature.. ie I'm going to hurt you, because you hurt me.


Romans 12 says "Vengence is mine, sayth the Lord, I shall repay" ... I get your point though.

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The ojbect of war isn't to die for your country, but to make the other guy die for his...
-George Patton

If practice makes perfect, and no one is perfect, then why practice? -Yours Truely

nfektious
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quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
Nfektious
Your comment has been said about the Muslim religion. In the end actions speak louder than words and what their religious leaders say to each other which they cheer for what goes on than what they tell us. In other words you are falling into the same trap that many others that think Muslim is a peaceful religion and use that point of view. But even if you did know it all, it’s not like you or anyone else can do anything about it.

Warsong, either I misunderstood you or you said something to the effect that I think Islam is a peaceful religion? I do not think Islam is a peaceful religion. I think Islam is a farce...a scam...if any religion in the world is a fake, it is Islam. Think about it. A so-called deity, manufactured by a so-called prophet, called by one name but based completely on a god from another religion...so-called scriptures and prophecies and such based on that of another religion (and that being of Islam's eternal nemesis, none other than Judaism, present in the knowledge of the world for several thousand years at the time Muhammad penned his al-Qur'an)...Islamic extremists and "pacifists" alike herald their existence and history above that of a civilization that has been in Jerusalem for centuries preceding their own claims...it is all so matter-of-fact to them, despite the truth, that it is scary to even fathom how much power these people have in the world today.
I'm not out to declare I am all-knowing...on any subject. I chimed in here to add to the discussion. And honestly all I am trying to do is help reveal the truth as often as I see that the truth needs to be revealed. There are people here who don't know much about anything spiritual and who at least sometimes strive to understand more about such things. I would hope that anyone with important factual information would be willing to share it, without any agenda or ulterior motive. What else do you suggest? Your comments caught me by surprise and came across as quite callous, especially for one who cries out for people to open their eyes, or take action over any given thing. What you said just flies in the face of your motive, and that is something that I can't comprehend. Either you want people (one would assume just Christians of any degree) to stop resting on their laurels and do something, or you do not. If you do not, why contribute what you do to this community? Please explain yourself, at least so I can understand your behavior...maybe others will benefit as well.

[This message has been edited by nfektious (edited May 20, 2006).]




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Nfektious
I was just saying that the thing you said about Jews is what the Muslims say as well since the Muslims say we misinterpreted and the Jews say we misinterpreted, but both of their actions and what their leaders say is the same negative actions.
Muslims and Jewish heroes are warlike, and they want a warlike god. Mohamed lied, forced conversion or killed non Muslims, had many wives, use terrorist actions, etc, which some consider him holy or many don’t know about the history since the religion is fanatical. The same with the Jewish religion how they didn’t want Christ since they wanted Christ to start a war and kill all non Jews since they want to be the only people to go to heaven and resent Christ as a heretic and find anyone that follows him as a heretic. Famous Jewish heroes like David, Solomon, etc killed their people and best friends for power to take their wives as their own, killed others different form them etc. The old and new testament is full of examples and so is history.

Muslims power is in numbers and they make money working with their cousins (Jewish) as they call them. They have a sibling rivalry but most work together despite popular belief. They are not each others worst enemy since Christians are since there are more Christians than Muslims and Jews.


????
As for your question I don’t think people can do something to make it better, but for people to know and look out for danger so they can avoid them. The more information people have the better Christians they can be. We can not blame Muslims, Jews, atheists, etc since the worst enemy for Christians are and have been Christians that do not follow Christianity properly. We can not blame the wolf that it eats the sheep but the shepherd for not doing its job. If Christian sects unit as one to mix them all it would be like mixing $hit with ice-cream and many sects have mixed already, the point is to find what is pure/original, and many sects give people an short wide easy which offers less and give people less. Many don’t care or fall short as the bible says the long hard narrow path is the right one and many sects have hurt Christianity and helped other violent illogical sects thrive. Even some like simon_templar which he was looking for a new religion and has learned a lot of religious history to find some truths still falls short in my opinion and ignored many basic points to miss the big picture. Religion is a big business since they get a lot of money, don’t pay taxes, get respect, get power, and it is appealing to many to make their own and have done so for the last 500 years with forcing people to convert, lying to people, making them convert for food, etc and then they have kids which are brought up in that system which is crazy how many have done it and how many have followed it. Even recently Ereon didn’t know about the origins of Christianity in how it was paved and many do not and I don’t like that people do not know the history which shows that they choose and believe what they do by the lack. Non Christian Orthodox Christian sects benefit from people knowing less about history and truths, and some intentionally lie and say they are the first despite not having apostolic succession or the original Christian nation having that religion. I am suppressed how many lies flat around within the Christian sects. One of the main reasons why other sects thrived was because Orthodox were attacked or put into slavery for close to 500 years with the help of Catholics, Jews, and Muslims working together as an unholy alliance to do so. When that happed many sects came and the original church could not do anything. Orthodox countries know what kind of animals Muslims are like but non Orthodox countries don’t know as well which is they bring them in blindly and Orthodox courtiers do not so easily, and others like the US, UN, EU try to force them to bring them in or they will bomb them just like how they did the Christian orthodox country Serbia which many “Christians” praised that which helped Muslims against Christians which is madness as stated in another post. People wont go to heaven if they don’t show they believe.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodox Info

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
Famous Jewish heroes like David, Solomon, etc killed their people and best friends for power to take their wives as their own, killed others different form them etc. The old and new testament is full of examples and so is history.

David did do wrong and commited adultry, then had the womans husband killed. But he wasn't regarded as great for that. This is what God had to say about David, "He is a man after my own heart." David repented and God forgave him. But there were still many tragedies that occured because of David's sin. But when it is all said and done, David is more than a Jewish hero. He is a real hero of the faith, mentioned in Hebrews 11.

Was Solomon a violent king? I think God didn't allow David to build His temple because of all the blood that he had spilled in his life, but Solomon was allowed to.


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Your love, O Lord, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep.
O Lord , you preserve both man and beast.
How priceless is your unfailing love!

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited May 21, 2006).]

RA Games

Member

Posts: 93
From: Sacramento, Ca., USA
Registered: 05-22-2006
The big difference between the holy koran and the Holy Bible, is that at least in the bible, the Jews like David knew WHO to attack. Therefore the bible is just a historical reference.

Not so with the Koran. When it talks of violence, then you do not know WHO it is talking about. Look at the verses below for example.
----------------------------------------
"Let those who would exchange the life of this world for the hereafter, fight for the cause of God; whether he dies or triumphs, We shall richly reward him. ... The true believers fight for the cause of God, but the infidels fight for the devil. Fight then against the friends of Satan ..." (Koran 4:74,76)

"The believers who stay at home––apart from those that suffer a grave impediment––are not the equals of those who fight for the cause of God with their goods and their persons. God has given those that fight with their goods and their persons a higher rank than those who stay at home ..." (Koran 4:95,96)

"Slay the idolaters wherever you find them. ... lie in ambush everywhere for them. If they repent and take to prayer and render the alms levy, allow them to go their way ..." (Koran 9:5)

------------------------------------------------

Well, with generic terms like THEY, US and THEM, this world is going to hell faster than satan wanted, huh? lol

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13




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But both have changed in some ways but generally the same. Even a Jewish Rabbi admitted that the Koran and Judaism are similar but that one is more extreme. At least with Muslims you can convert to be a Muslim, to be Jewish you have to marry one. Muslims say they believe in Christ, Judaism find Christ a heretic and everyone that follows. But we have to be Politically Correct and say that the bad is good, and that the good is bad.

Brandon
They talk about themselves which is a bias view, but besides the point is that they are a war tribe. And they wanted the messiah to kill non Jews since that’s what they know, and not the way Christ did it. The problem is that now people think that Christianity and Judaism is the same which is actualy like day and nigh, black and white, or right and wrong. I just gave 2 examples but there is a long list of many heroes to their own definition but not to ours. Everyone has their own form of justice from communism, fascism, capitalism, Judaism, atheism, etc which we sometimes mix it together to be fair to everyone but unfair to the real form of justice.

Ra gamer
There are many differences but you also have to also look at the many similarities. As Christ said out with the old in with the new, so let’s not go with what the Koran and the OT say about an eye for an eye since it doesn’t apply to Christians. The old help bring the news and it was for them back then. To mix black and white we will get grey, like from right and wrong, from Christianity and those 2. Only problems come when we mix Christianity with other views.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodox Info

Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
Warsong, is it not also true that many pastors and priests have admitted that the Koran and the Bible are similar? On your statement to Brandom, may I ask why you choose to take the Greeks, who were pagans and idoliters, and place them above the Jews, who worshipped the one true God? It seems odd to me that you would look down so much on those who were God's chosen people, and whose violences and combat were the result of God's own orders given through His prophets and by Himself? It just seems like a rather odd outlook to me.

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

RA Games

Member

Posts: 93
From: Sacramento, Ca., USA
Registered: 05-22-2006
Of course the bible and the koran are similiar.
Just read the Koran below for proof:

---------------------------------
Koran 4.157
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:-
-------------------------------


Yep, so the Koran says very plainly that THEY KILLED HIM NOT.
So then, the whole concept of the Christian faith is a lie. There was no death or resurrection, so we should all just convert and bow to Mecca perhaps? Either bow to them or they will kill you lol

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God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

[This message has been edited by RA Games (edited June 01, 2006).]




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Why do you ask questions that you can answers yourself of have already been answered? Anyway...
The ones that admit that are similar are not looking at it as a whole. As for your comment about Greeks and Jews I answered that in the religious forum and before.

As for your other comment some would consider it blasphemous. Jews are not chosen and have not been seen that way thought out most of Christianity but lately in the liberal form of it. The protestant sect mostly sees it that way which is why they keep distorting thing allow gay and women priests, ignore saints, has many false doctrine, etc. People may say they are not protestant but their actions say more than a label. They mix Christianity with Judaism and they wonder why it doesn’t work. The Orthodox Church makes a clear claim that the baptized are the people of God.

Christ made a new covenant which many ignore. What better way to attack Christianity than to Paris the people that attack it. If they are chosen then we should go to the synagogues (synagogue of the Satan Rev2:9 but some translate it to adversary which is a distortion) basically a separation from church and synagogue. Maybe people misinterpret what they were chosen for. “Christ shall be slain, and the people who shall deny Him shall not be His.”Daniel 9: 26” “Be it known to you, therefore, that this salvation of God is sent to the Gentiles.”Acts 28:28 “If God were your father, you would love me… You are of your father, the devil… because I tell the truth, you don't believe me”john8 Real Christians are Gods chosen people, so let’s not be PC to say otherwise and make a big issue of it. As Christ said “No man cometh to the Father but by me.”And that includes Jews and non Jews, and no one is greater but god only.

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)
"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US, and 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
... At least with Muslims you can convert to be a Muslim...

but if you change your mind or want to no longer be a muslim what happens to you not so nice.

quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
...to be Jewish you have to marry one.

This is incorrect. You can convert to Judaism. Likewise, if your mother is Jewish, you are born Jewish.


Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
It seems to me that those who admit that they are similar are those that look at it as whole, and choose to stay that way, without looking at the "small" but vitally important differences between them, what do you think? I
'm not taking these things from some "view", I'm taking them from the Bible. God calls himself the God of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob again and again in the Old Testament, He refers to the Jews again and again as His people and himself as their God. However, I do no see anywhere that He called Himself the God of Alexander, Aristotle, and Plato..... As for my words being blasphemous the only thing I truly care about is what God thinks of them, his opinion is alot more important to me than what "some people" may think about them.

As for the Jews, I agree with you explicitly that a very large majority of Jews are not Christians, and that noone is greater but God, however there are many of Jewish descent that ARE Christians. But, if the Jews, because of actions of those of the past, are competely to be held as evil or perverse, them why all the prophecies in the Old Testament about God gathering his people (meaning the Jews) back to himself? Prophecies that were made after any Biblical or historical events that could have been such a gathering, and as such have yet to be fulfilled.

To lay it all out flat I find it odd that you would hold so much stock in Greek traditions, and Greek ways, and the traditions and ways of the past, and choose to set these priorities off of no scriptural background, and hold them to be of such importance that you fiercely defend them with superhuman knowledge that all of us are apparently supposed to know but are totally ignorant of. And many times you do not give an explanation, you simply jump out at say something to the equivilant of "you stupid idiot, you're destroying Christianity and you don't even know it". Whenever we talk I attempt, to the best of my ability, to answer all your points, and it feels like you answer by putting up a smoke screen on certain things and then throwing in several more points to compensate. You throw these things out as indisputable law, and yet offer no explanations for why you think that, or, more importantly, why WE should think that. Frankly, there are very few people I trust enough to take their word solely on the fact that they say it, and none of those are less than 19 years older than me and none of them are online relationships. It's just I'm getting weary of arguments that spiral on and on and on, and change shape everytime one of us posts.

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited June 01, 2006).]

RA Games

Member

Posts: 93
From: Sacramento, Ca., USA
Registered: 05-22-2006
Warsong
---------------------------------
"As Christ said out with the old in with the new, so let’s not go with what the Koran and the OT say"
---------------------------------

How can the OT and Koran be compared? The Koran was written about 600 AD or 600 years after Christ, but not so with the OT.

Therefore the Koran can be consider another gospel with the latter over-ruling the former?

Consider the Korans words below of hostility towards Jews and Christians.
----------------------------------
Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low. And the Jews say: Ezra is the son of Allah, and the Christians say: The Messiah is the son
of Allah. That is their saying with their mouths. They imitate the saying of those who disbelieved of old. Allah (Himself) fighteth against them. How perverse are they! They have taken as lords beside Allah their rabbis and their monks and the Messiah son of Mary, when they were bidden to worship only One God. There is no God save Him. Be He Glorified from all that they ascribe as partner (unto Him)! ...

The Quran, Sura 9:28-31
--------------------------------

It plainly tells them to FIGHT us.
Btw, have you ever read the words of Mohammad Attah? I posted them in another forum.
He was the lead hijacker on 911 and was a very serious religous dude man!

Click on the link below to read Mr Mohammad's words of islamic wisdom of both prayer and of the Koran.

http://www.christiansongwriting.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=208

------------------
God said to Noah, "The end of all living beings has come before me, for because of them the earth is filled with violence. I will destroy them along with the earth.
Genesis 6:13

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
They talk about themselves which is a bias view, but besides the point is that they are a war tribe. And they wanted the messiah to kill non Jews since that�s what they know, and not the way Christ did it.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was more like they wanted the Messiah to free them from the Roman Empire? That probably would have some killing to it. Also, I'm aware that there were people who chose to do evil in the Jewish culture just as there in any culture. And that they could be the people that you are talking about. But there are also Godly Jewish men, women, boys, and girls, from the past, present and future, that have and will continue to do mighty things for the Kingdom of God.

Actually there is a pretty good book written by a Jewish Christian named "I Have a Friend Who's Jewish... Do You?", it's here: http://www.prophecyrevealed.com/page1.html The entire book is online there, it's really good

------------------
Your love, O Lord, reaches to the heavens, your faithfulness to the skies.
Your righteousness is like the mighty mountains, your justice like the great deep.
O Lord , you preserve both man and beast.
How priceless is your unfailing love!




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Coolj
Yeah I agree about the Muslim part you said but the Jewish part is not true which many Jews in person say and Jewish information site says. Still a Jew that converts out of Judaism is seen as a heretic and ignored to be not treated as kindly. The ones that say it’s ok to convert they are not considered that Jewish, which many people have a misconception about it.

Ereon
(lol sometimes I wonder if you really read what I say sine it’s like I say things again)
The ones that think are similar do look at the whole in particular parts and but ignore the many other parts. I can say we are both the same but in reality we are not the same. As a whole we are all equal but we do not equally the same.
They are the chosen people for Christ to be born from the, so as u see his people but not of the same spirit. Just like Christ said about a sick going to the hospital, and he is there to help the sick in soul. You are right he didn’t call himself the God of the ancient Greeks but take the same ideologies form them than the Jews, and when the Greeks went to see Christ, Christ said that the time has come for Gods name to be glorified and it spread like wile in the Greek region since even the apostles admitted that it was similar which is why they embraced Christianity and help make the main churches in Greece.
http://bible.cc/john/12-23.htm “One cannot help but recall the words of the Lord when Philip and Andrew came to report that some Greeks wished to see Him: "The hour has come for the Son of man to be glorified" (John 12:20).”
Some say he Greeks are the official messengers of God since the original and official NT and the official OT are in that language and was the main language that intelect spoke then and that still can not be translated well which is why their are so many translations since all languages are not as advanced. Even Brandon is learning Ancient greek to understand things better. The link in the religious forum explains this. So maybe I should ask why why should I help you out when I have already directed you to the information?

As another site says
“We would not have the fullest understanding of Orthodoxy if we did not consider the adjective, "Greek." Greek, not in the narrow ethnic, or geographical sense, but in the sense of the immense formative influence of Greek thought, and to some extent of the Greek language, which pervades the whole life and consciousness of the Church. It is precisely in this sense that the various Orthodox bodies - the Russian, the Romanian, the Syrian, the Serbian - may quite properly be referred to as Greek without gainsaying their obvious national character and traditions, or their geographical and cultural identities.” Also they were the original church before then west decided to make its own for profit which is why Orthodoxy and eastern part of Europe is not mentioned since the less people know the better it is for non orthodox sects to get more power. One main reason why non orthodox Christian sects got power as I said before was because they enslaved Christian Orthodoxy, with the help of non orthodox Christians, Jews, and Muslims combined. People are not other Christian sects because of what they know but because of what they don’t know.

I know Jews that converted to Christianity, many for wrong reasons and few for right ones. The OT also says that their messiah when he comes will live with them, and Christ said that their father is not God but you know who in what he said. But this is not our concern to deal with them, but we should not encourage their anti Christian actions as many Christians do. Also if you complain so much you can also look for the information yourself and not look for one sided views. Always look for opposing views to see the other side and not only your side. You did not even try to look at things it seems since you ask the same obvious questions and you want me to answer you in different ways it seems. You don’t want to look for yourself then what else can I tell you. I gave you plenty of links that answer your questions and you come straight to me to object and want proof when you have it. Its like I give you a book if you want to know about something and you don’t bother to look and ask me all the time to point things out in the book and then complain to me that I dont have time to look for you, which is not right to do that all the time and kind of rude of you.


RA games
The OT and other Jewish books inspired the Koran, and you know that the people lived close to each other. I am not saying that the Muslim religion is good.

Brandon
Jews do things for God you say but as Christ said that people have to pass by him first so that excludes many. I would not hold much stock in other non orthodox Christian views since they bring their own culture in and mix the religion as I have stated to Ereon. Read other things to see what they say but don’t place so much value in them since everyone has an agenda, you know like the pope to say that he is infallible, has a private army, own brothels and says it’s a necessary sin, and the other sects that spun off of it etc. Everyone wants to make money and a person making their own religion is a good way of doing it. If you tell an atheist to swear on the bible to uphold what the bible says for them to be a priest they will tell us everything we want to hear, but their heart will not.

------------------
"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

[This message has been edited by warsong (edited June 02, 2006).]

Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
On John 12:20: The word used for Greeks in that verse also means Gentiles or just "ones who speak Greek". It's the same word used for Gentile all over the New Testament. So, these may or may not have been Greeks, they may have only been people who spoke Greek, or they may have simply been Gentiles, just like the other Gentiles throughout the New Testament. And if my computer Bible serves me right then the Bible also says this.

There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus.
Galations 3:28

Apparently the Greeks (or Gentiles) and the Jews are simply human names pasted on what we all are, Christians. Why glory in the title of Orthodox or Catholic, or Medodist, or Baptist, and of these things that are man's titles for seperating what we all are, Christians. The only reason I ask the questions that to you are so obvious, is that I do not know the answers, and the reason I often do not take the links that you give me as infallible answers, is that they are very often based off of man's words, and tend to be biased highly in favour of your arguments. In addition, upon searching, it is equally easy to find just as many words of men AGAINST those arguments. Frankly I want what God holds to be true, not just what someone tells me to be true. So, if I may suggest, let's throw of all this Othodox/Protestant junk, and be what we would be in the first place if it weren't for these paper labels we slap on ourselves and each other, Christian, brothers and sisters in Christ, one.

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

nfektious
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Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
If there is any simple method of discerning who is of God and who is not, it can be put in these words, written in 1 John chapter 3, verse 10: "This is how God's children--and the Devil's children--are made evident. Whoever does not do what is right is not of God, especially the one who does not love his brother." (from The Holman Christian Standard Bible) Unfortunately, too often, we - human beings - tend to make things more complicated than they need to be or were ever intended. (Look at how God's laws have been interpreted since the days of Moses.)

The New Covenant (as it should be called, instead of Testament) is what brought all of mankind into a place of having a relationship with God. Yes, most of the Jews failed in understanding their role as God's witnesses to the rest of mankind. However, the entirety of scripture is about God's love for us - regardless of race, sex, national origin, etc. God continued to love the Jews even after they continually rejected him - and God still loves them to this day. Another example of this can be found in the story of Jonah with the people of Nineveh - a group of people living in complete lawlessness with extreme disrespect for anyone and anything, worshipping the worst god they could be worshipping. Yet God wanted to have a relationship with them and wanted them to know about Him, that they would turn away from their wickedness and destruction. If God were to stop loving any people, what does that say about God, since God is love? God does not change; we are the ones who change.
Yes, it is our responsibilty to let others know when they are wrong, especially those who call themselves Believers. But we cannot do this without the righteous love we have in God, no matter how upset it makes us to see people do wrong things. We are responsible for our own actions - our own words, our own thoughts, our own deeds. God will hold us all accountable for what we do and what we do not do. It is not enough to tell someone they are wrong without being willing to take the time to show them what is right. It reveals something about a person's character when they are quick to show a mistake, but disinterested in helping to fix it. The greatest thing we, as Believers, can do is invest the time in others to let them know that the God we worship loves them and wants to keep on loving them...whether they already know God or not.

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ereon:
Why glory in the title of Orthodox or Catholic, or Medodist, or Baptist, and of these things that are man's titles for seperating what we all are, Christians.

RIGHT ON!!!

What's God's definition of a good religious group?

James 1:27 "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, and to keep himself unspotted from the world."

Wow pretty simple, I strongly feel this is about as much religion as the early Church had, and surprisingly it was the most 'pure'. Can we really better it with required rituals, customs, and laws?

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
Coolj
Yeah I agree about the Muslim part you said but the Jewish part is not true which many Jews in person say and Jewish information site says. Still a Jew that converts out of Judaism is seen as a heretic and ignored to be not treated as kindly. The ones that say it’s ok to convert they are not considered that Jewish, which many people have a misconception about it.

What Jewish Site? Orthodox and Reformed Jewish belief is that you can convert to Judaism. There are different requirements (much like Orthodox Christian vs. Catholic) Unless you can give me a source, your view seems to be the exception and false. For sources pro-Jewish Conversion, just do a search or read history or modern day Jewish beliefs. I would recommend a good book 4 u: 'To Be a Jew' You seem to enjoy reading, I know you will enjoy reading this book, it gives you a good look at Jewish belief from a Jewish perspective, not a hate biased perspective like a lot of anti-Jewish websites and books would.

Would you be surprised to learn that conversion to Judaism takes a similar process to conversion to Orthodox Christianity? no way!!




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"In this age of ecumenism, one is hard-pressed to argue with the "givens" of the religious world: "We all have the same God," or "All religions are good and are equal." If we apply these notions to science, it is immediately apparent that they are absurd: All observations are valid and equal," or "Alchemy and chemistry are both sciences and are equal."

Non orthodox sects put their own interpretation because of their lack of understanding, mix it with their own culture views which contradict, self interests, and other misguided methods. The orthodox church's language is the only one to have the official and original inspired words of God. Orthodoxy” accepts the Septuagint as the sacred and inspired Word of God. This version of the Bible circulated in the synagogues around the Mediterranean world where Christianity flourished." http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/scripturesinthechurch.htm

"JESUS FELT THE GREEK INFLUENCE" and to take away credit where credit is due is not right. The link explains John 12:20-23 it was not in the general gentile language that it took off and the inspired word of God is still not translated well which is why to know it best you have to read it how it is originally since many words that they have has been narrowed down to 1 word to sum it up which distorts the meaning and if it did not then we would not have so many bible versions with different interpretations.
http://www.gordonmoyes.com/sermon_archive/ministry/tra/2005/050605.html

"The stricture against joint prayer with heretics is that such prayer falsely legitimizes their prayer, it raises their heresy—which is an attack on Christ's Church—to a level of perceived equality with Orthodox Christianity."
http://www.orthodoxinfo.com/praxis/praynonorth.aspx

"The most famous name in Jewish allegorical thought is Philo, the son of a wealthy Alexandrian merchant, who lived from about 20 B.C. to about A.D. 50. A man of great erudition, Philo mentions sixty-four Greek writers, including Homer, Hesiod, Pindar, Solon, the tragedians, and Plato. To Philo, these Greeks were not heathen. They were men of God, on a par with Israel's prophets"
http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1300777

You can not deny that that the Orthodox Greeks did a lot of the work to spread Christ’s words in their language and transform their entire nation into the only Christian nation which inspired the eastern European to be Orthodox and other. Other sects can not do the same and place their cultural view and their lack of knowledge of the language to not show or act out the true word of god. The church should be one Christ said and to watch out for false doctrine including sects, since they make their own rules than remain with the original church. You have to look at the facts and see them add up. If you see a car accident, and the next day on the news it says no car accident then you have to add up everything to make your decision. The facts I have shown back the information up which you persist to say there is no car accident.

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"Thirdly, Christ prophesies that in the New Testament Greeks will glorify Him (John 12:20-23). So, if I were not a Christian and suddenly wanted to find out about Christianity for the first time in my life where would I go to? Reading the Bible (c.f. John 12:20-23 or the Old Testament) I would either go to a Greek or to a Hebrew. Hebrews in general do not believe in the New Testament and therefore did not "update" Judaism into Christianity, there is "only" the Greeks left to start with my investigation (since they are still Christians as a nation and they have always been Christian from the beginning; Orthodox Christian, in fact). This way, a complete stranger, knowing nothing about Christianity, would be led first of all to the Greek Church which belongs to the Orthodox Church,"

So to say that the part means gentile then it would say it, but it did mention they were Greeks. It is simple things like that that people translate differently. Next thing they will say that good means bad, or day means night, since Greek doesn’t equal Greek. It says gentile 99 times in the NT and Greek around 25. So they were not afraid to use the word gentile or that they didn’t have a word for it so that’s not the excuse. If it was not for them we would be Muslim or Jewish and we would values non Christian ideologies, but people want to stick with the very far second option go outside of Gods chosen words. But thats my opinion.

"in either the Hebrew or the Greek, there is NO word equivalent to today's English language term "gentiles" (or "gentile")." "Actually, it depends on your frame of reference. It is all dependent upon what anyone has been "indoctrinated" to believe!"
We also have to look at the history of the word in how it changed like so many words that mean something else. Just like the word leisure time use to mean time well spend learning and now has the opposite meaning. one old term for gentile means ""belonging to the same gens, the clan, or family" (as defined by the grammarian Sextus Pompeius Festus, in A.D. 150). Then, things changed somewhat: "in post-Augustan Latin, gentilis meant 'national', belonging to the same race. Later still, it meant 'foreign', i.e., other than Roman..."" "there is NO word equivalent to today's English language term "gentiles"" http://home.i-plus.net/pilgrim/twl-G9a2-gentile.html
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A heretic is the person that holds false doctrines, and is not in the Orthodox Church. Every sects was helped spawned form the catholic church which many protestants agree it is wrong as well, but for them to spawn out of bad will not bring good which is a contradiction. Just like Christ said to cast away a tree a rotten tree since it makes rotten fruit. People listen to the metaphors but they always go over people’s heads. Apostolic succession can trance its roots back unlike other churches that have a person’s opinion than a united agreement which has been around for 2000 years. It is like saying Tag you are it, and others are jealous or play by other rules since they are not it no matter how hard they try. That is not being humble.
http://www.eastern-orthodoxy.com/religion.htm

What the other sects have done to the Orthodox church and its people and to other non Christians and Christians make Islam look peaceful, so as (1 John 3:15) says “no Christian can be a murderer” hence they are false doctrines and such not Christian by spirit but by name.

Coolj
Read what I said to ereon also but “blasphemy which is supported by ignorance, and which gains social acceptance, is one of the most destructive forces in society."
The Holy Scriptures Were Preserved by the Orthodox Church “The meaning of Tradition in the early Christian Fathers refers to the Revelation made by God and delivered to His faithful people through the mouths of His prophets and apostles. Thus, it does not mean something "handed down" something delivered. The Greek word for Tradition, or its corresponding verb, is in a similar way used in the New Testament and applied in the same manner to the betrayal of Christ our Lord by Judas to the Jews (delivered), and to the delivery (paradosis) of Christian teaching by St. Paul to his converts.”
http://www.serfes.org/orthodox/scripturesinthechurch.htm

So you say a Jew is anti Jewish when they say that? I can not remember every news site and Jewish person that says it. Many types of Jews and the more liberal types allow conversions and the more strict ones do not. No real blood line and you know a Semite has dark skin and not how Da Vinci paints Christ to be with white skin and blond hair. Its ok to disagree with a view/ideology, but many confuse the ideology with people and embrace and endorse the wrong ideology to grow.

Nfektious
Yep

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
Ok Warsong, only one question this time . What are the fruits of the modern Orthodox Church?

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind




Posts:
From:
Registered:
You replied too fast which shows you didn't read it fully to think about it.

As for your question I will be just as cheap as tell you to ask any Orthodox priest.

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"The conversion of a savage to Christianity is the conversion of Christianity to savagery." George Bernard Shaw (Hence christian sects)"Hell is paved with good intentions, not with bad ones"
"Matthew 7 21. Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven;... depart from me, ye that work iniquity."
Orthodoxy=best kept secret in the US. 2nd largest Christian communion in the world

Ereon

Member

Posts: 1018
From: Ohio, United States
Registered: 04-12-2005
If you could ask one for me and relay the answer that would be great I actually did read your post twice and prayed over it, I'm just a really fast reader, and I read it just a few minutes after you posted it. I don't think there are any Orthodox churchs in my town, so that's why I was asking you about the subject.(It's a REALLY small town).

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"I am very good at hiding, so if you don't see me, that's where I am." Orc Outlaw, TES III Morrowind

[This message has been edited by Ereon (edited June 06, 2006).]

CoolJ

Member

Posts: 354
From: ny
Registered: 07-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by warsong:
So you say a Jew is anti Jewish when they say that? I can not remember every news site and Jewish person that says it. Many types of Jews and the more liberal types allow conversions and the more strict ones do not. No real blood line and you know a Semite has dark skin and not how Da Vinci paints Christ to be with white skin and blond hair. Its ok to disagree with a view/ideology, but many confuse the ideology with people and embrace and endorse the wrong ideology to grow.

No, I'm saying that what you made as a blanket statement about the Jewish religion I can only find from one anti-Jewish and one pro-Islamic writer(not much of a surprise, you can see why they would tell their followers this). If you have a reference to even ONE source, I would be interested. As you know, there is A LOT of stereotypes, misinformation and ignorance( and pure hatred toward Jews as the Bible prophesied). This doesn't sound like a big deal, but if you add this with all the other stereotypes, you can see how this hatred is spread. As far as I can tell Orthodox, Conservative, and Reformed (definitely not just liberal) all offer paths for converts.