bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
my cousin and me went war driving today. well, we went around with 2 laptops and netstumbler to see what all was around here. we found a few networks, but eveyrone was pretty secure. i didn't have the intent of leeching off of some businesses internet access, but i was just curious to see if we could find something. now it's time to get linux, and a program to crack wep encryption...but i don't know if i should, because eventually i might have to use it  ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
HanClinto Administrator Posts: 1828 From: Indiana Registered: 10-11-2004 |
Nice.  A friend of mine and I went warwalking in the subdivision behind his house a few months ago -- kindof a yuppie neighborhood, found a *lot* of unsecured, wide open networks, quite a large number of them still with the default SSID. |
c0oL l33tZ Member Posts: 26 From: Registered: 09-15-2005 |
actually, I just need to walk upstairs with my laptop and i found 3 other networks... 0.o ------------------ |
QuestLeader Member Posts: 629 From: My house, Va, USA Registered: 04-20-2005 |
c0ol l33tZ, I can do the same thing, lol. I could walk down the street and pick up like fifty unsecure networks. It's funny, if my mom drives really slow i can get a decent connection in the car while were moving, lol. ------------------ |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
its like some people don't KNOW that their connection can be used. I went for a year using neighbors' wifi connections.... (then i moved). I had a thought the other day...wouldn't it be soooo easy to go through one of those hotel/motel laden sections of a town? they are all offering free wi-fi to customers, but who said a guy conveniently parked on the side of the road nearby couldnt get a little..... ------------------ |
firemaker103 Member Posts: 643 From: Registered: 07-13-2005 |
actually, crazyishone, most of those hotels(where I live anyway) have secure networks. ------------------ |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
interesting. you think they supply visitors with a usr/pw? if so, that should not be too hard to find. I have seen it where a Super8 using satellite internet had a sign at the counter telling the usr/pwd. it should be fairly easy to find it out even if there is no sign. just a little social engineering. @benny: did you guys chalk the hotspots for future wardrivers? (at least until next time it rains, lol ) [This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited October 30, 2005).] |
Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
how did you do it? (i got no laptop, for the time being anyway.  )i need to learn as much as a can! ------------------ Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right. PM ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF ME! ILL PUT IT HERE! |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
basic (very simple) explanation- connecting to wireless networks.
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
I've been around and seen quite a few unprotected networks. It's surprising how many people have created wireless networks with zero protection. In my own neighborhood, we're like the only secured network around (although I've recently been seeing another). "how did you do it?" It's insanely simple. Turn on laptop, wait a couple minutes. Windows pops up a notice saying it found some unprotected wireless networks. The legality of wardriving has never been tested too much in the USA, so you might want to keep an eye on it. It can unethical if you do not have permmission: You are essentially stealing bandwidth. The best way to secure a wireless is through WPA or VPN; MAC address and WEP are less secure. ------------------ |
CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
Here in guatemala it's pretty easy to "bum" wifi off of someone. A fast food restaurant is offering free wifi to people. I wanna try it out and use a download manager... if you can do more than browse. ------------------ 4096 bit GnuPG Encryption... you can't go wrong! |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
its just so easy. when you are a "geek" you can use knowledge that most people wouldn't even dream of (to your benefit...lol)/ not because it is so "high level" or "1337" (God, I hate that crap.), but because it would never enter their mind. how many of your classmates and colleagues do you think ever wonder , "hey, I wonder what Jimbo's IP is.....it would be so awesome to leave him a nice little message....on his Desktop!!!" so, i think if we have the knowledge to do something, and it doesnt hurt anybody, we should do it. Slightly off-topic: the other day something strange happened. I was rude to somembody ...in a way. We probably had alot of common interests cuz he was wearing a "Nintendo Rehabilitation Clinic" shirt and I was wearing a "Guns DOnt kill people, kids who play video games kill people!" shirt. So, there is a high chance that he coulda been a pretty interesting person or w/e. so, I felt bad for calling him a poser, considering the fact that im no uber-anything myself...I just couldn't help it. he said leet..... ------------------ |
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Realm Master Member Posts: 1971 From: USA Registered: 05-15-2005 |
i think im gonna LOVE beeing a geek! ------------------ Blessed are those who suffer for doing what is right. PM ME YOUR DESCRIPTION OF ME! ILL PUT IT HERE! |
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CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Auugh stupid 1337s! Can (maybe) barely program... and only in some of the worst stupid sucky languages that are around (or so I've seen). That's why I try to get shirts that can't be confused with that stuff. I also don't wear game t-shirts either for that reason. ------------------ 4096 bit GnuPG Encryption... you can't go wrong! |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
welll, the thing is, to an actual "geek" all those shirts with 1337 crap are sarcastic, and wear is for the SARCASTIC humor. its not meant to be taken seriously. also, whaddya mean sucky languages? i think any programming skills are admirable. most posers and "warez d00dz" and all that crap dont even know where to start....in any language. ------------------ |
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CPUFreak91 Member Posts: 2337 From: Registered: 02-01-2005 |
quote: Yeah but 1337s and sarcastic humor don't go too well together. ------------------ 4096 bit GnuPG Encryption... you can't go wrong! |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
we used netstumbler, and a laptop with wireless card. we haven't hit the residental areas yet. don't make fun of us non-programming people!!! i know about programming, and i understand it...but i don't know any languages...kind of sad. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
hehe. well, im sure you can write Batch Files. i think anybody who knows what DOS is can.... could you call that programming? ------------------ |
Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: Take the moral high road. WEP cracking is wrong. If I found an intruder on my network, I would make sure they suffered. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
that's taking the high moral road? granted, I would be doing that also... ------------------ |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
well, in my mind, an unprotected network is fair game. if its encrypted, just keep yer hands off of it. if you have to break in. its wrong. .....not that that would stop me. ------------------ |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
i know it would be wrong, but it would be very tempting also. i think i'll just get someone to set up the wep encryption on our router than try to crack it. i want to know how it all works, and of course how to do it...umm...it's purely "intellectual curiosity". ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
a like-minded person? odd..... ------------------ |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: I don't see anything wrong with that. |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: A good friend of mine just had his ISP shut off his broadband connection, as someone had pumped a few million spam emails though his WIFI connection. I am sure it is only a matter of time before we hear of a little old lady getting Federal time in prison for hosting a child porn site because she didn't know she was suppose to have wpa encryption enabled to keep others out. |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
This is weird thread, I'm not sure what wardriving is but it sounds like you are talking about abusing/using something that isn't yours. ------------------ string LordAndSaviour() { return "Jesus Christ"; } // [VoHW] |
MastaLlama Member Posts: 671 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
From the Wikipedia: Wardriving - Wardriving is searching for Wi-Fi wireless networks by automobile. It involves using a car and a Wi-Fi-equipped computer, such as a laptop or a PDA, to detect the networks. It is also known (as of 2002) as "WiLDing" (Wireless Lan Driving), originating in the San Francisco Bay Area with the Bay Area Wireless Users Group (BAWUG). It is similar to using a scanner for radio. I don't think it's wrong to search for the networks or use them for just menial web surfing, but if you're going to use another person's connection for illegal activities, that's different. For example, I'm currently about 35 miles from my house waiting on my friend to show up at his. I obviously don't have a key to his house, so I'm sitting in the car with my laptop. I plugged in my WiFi card and 3 networks came up from the surrounding houses. 2 of the 3 are secured, but the other is not. That's how I'm making this post. I've got 2 networks setup at home and I have my personal computer and my wife's computer on Network A and have the wifi wide open, i don't care if anyone uses it. All my work stuff is on Network B and I have it secured. ttyl, friend is here. ------------------ |
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Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
Can using some one's network cause problems or noticeable load in the service? In the Bible we have law that if you are walking in a some one's corn field it's ok to eat the corns until you are full, but it's wrong to gather the corns in a container. ------------------ string LordAndSaviour() { return "Jesus Christ"; } // [VoHW] |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: Wardriving is just listening to the radio signals that are broadcast by wifi network devices. |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
i don't know if i would use someone elses wifi connection or not, but i would at least try to open google.com or some other site to see if i actually had a connection. i don't plan on cracking anyone's encryption either, unless i also notify them of how it was done and how to fix it(which i'm not skilled enough yet for that). but i doubt i'll even do that, unless i'm getting paid by them to secure their network. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
well.... I think there are some "unwritten rules" to using somebody else's wi-fi. 1)No cracking while using their connection. 2)No other illegal activities while using their connection. 3)No "hacking"/cracking their computer. 4)No overly-bandwidth-consuming activities. Im sure there's a few others you can think of. I think that it can be hard to follow those unwritten rules, esp. #4. In these days, almost everything seems to be fairly bandwidth-demanding. Just don't be inconsiderate. ------------------ |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: OK, so you have definate bounderies that you won't cross. |
luke Member Posts: 311 From: I use your computer as my second Linux box Registered: 10-30-2005 |
i just crawled out from under my rock but what is "1337" and "poser"? ------------------ |
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firemaker103 Member Posts: 643 From: Registered: 07-13-2005 |
quote: ------------------ [This message has been edited by firemaker103 (edited November 07, 2005).] |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
So these activities may be legal (uncertain) and certainly are tempting - but which Christian here can honestly say it is ethical? Would you be happy chatting about it to a church elder how you are able to use other people's internet connections? You can't use the 'intellectual curisity' excuse - you might hack into a bank or defense system just "to see if I can" but if you get caught you are in big trouble. So it's a temptation, but so is getting drunk and being sexually promiscuous. Unless your conscience honestly tells you that this is acceptable, view it as any other temptation that you try to fight against. |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
d0000hg...i wouldn't honestly jack into someone's connection. the only reason i could think of to is to let them know about it, and how to secure it, like i said earlier. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
I did some wardriving with a GPS system and netstubbler. I ran across many unprotected networks. One of them belonged to a member of my church. I told him of the risks of having an "open" network. He didn't care... Instead he asked me how I knew he had a wifi network and why I was driving with the equipment in my car. (Looking at me suspiciously.) Oh well. - You can't save them all. He'll get his passwords and credit card numbers stolen, then he will think, "Maybe I should have listened to that geek?" |
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QuestLeader Member Posts: 629 From: My house, Va, USA Registered: 04-20-2005 |
Dude, netstumbler doesnt seem to want to work right on my computer. ------------------ |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
maybe your wifi card won't work with netstumbler. if i became more knowledgable and started my own security business, that would be a good way to get your name out ...do it to one or two business and you could either end up with some jail time or a nice contract  ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
Seeing if you can get onto someone else's network to tell them it's unsecure is like trying every car door in a carpark to see if you can open it, then leaving a note. While it seems you're acting morally, if the police see you opening someone else's car and grab you, they're not going to believe your story. Doing something which is illegal for good purposes is still illegal. You can whinge about it or say it's stupid, but as Christians we are called to live by the laws of the land unless they conflict with God's law. And these things don't! |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
i think some of you are looking at it wrong. its not like trying doors to see if they are open....its more like....you are at a company/church/school/etc.. picnic. there are various dishes out on a table. some of them are covered, sealed, and set apart. those are to be left alone! some of them are open, with a spoon in them. those are fair game. but, its always nice to inform the person who "brought the dish"....even if its after you are done with it. abd also, like i said ** , be considerate. dont spit in the bowl. ------------------ |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
I supose the first question to ask should be "Is it illegal?" I have talked to two police officers where I work. -They did not know. But they told me they would not arrest me if I were sitting outside someone's house in my car with my laptop at 3:00 am. I wonder how the other 200+ officers in my town feel? I've been sited for J-Walking here, so I know if the wrong one finds me I will wish I had never tried it. Does anyone know if using unprotected WIFI networks is realy illegal? |
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QuestLeader Member Posts: 629 From: My house, Va, USA Registered: 04-20-2005 |
Well, my uncle works for US Robotics, and he told me it was not illegal. He is an internet security specialist (and a pilot and he goes looking for networks and tells the people how to secure them. On the ther hand, when I called tech support once with a problemactic wireless card, they told me it was illegal. Then my uncle said that they just discourage it, but its not illegal. So... whatever you choose to think, i don't think it's illegal. ------------------ |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
legality doesn't really matter to me, well, by the man made laws anyway. how many people here actually stay under the speed limit the majority of the time? i don't think just becuase i'm doing 56mph in a 55mph zone that i'm sinning. no as far as breaking the commandments of God, i do care, and i feel like crap after/during the process, and i have to repent afterward. i don't think it's right to crack someone's encryption and jack into their network. would you say there's something wrong with scanning for wireless networks, if if you find one wide-open going and telling the person about them? ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: Scanning, wardriving, or just listening any radio signals is always leagal. - I could be wrong. Telling people that their network is unprotected is noble. I'm talking about unauthorized access to a computer network, a third-degree felony. [U.S. federal computer crime statute, Title 18 U.S.C. 1030] |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: US Robotics also says, "we strongly recommend that you enable wireless security to prevent unauthorized connection or someone from eavesdropping to listen in on your network traffic." Read more at: http://www.usr.com/support/5430/5430-ug/five.html |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
Hmm. Scanning for networks sounds OK - you could easily be in a situation where you want to find your own network to connect to, and can't help seeing others. But as soon as you actually test the security of a network by trying to access it you're being naughty IMO. How is it like a bowl with a spoon in? That implies somebody deliberately set up their network unsecurely to let you access it. If you walked past a house with loads of bowls of food inside an open window would it be OK to take some if their was a spoon in the bowl? No. In that situation you could knock on the door and tell them. Not climb through the window to do it! |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
the thing is that its OPEN. the analogy was directed at whether the connection was open to the public or not. IF it's open to the pbulic, its fair game. This is far different then walking into their house moving their wireless router closer to your house, and saying "Thanks man." If its there, its open, and nobody is asking payment for it, its not wrong to use it, as long as you are considerate. Breaking into a protected network, no matter HOW weak the security, is wrong. d000hg, u took my example and messed it up. If the bowl is "inside their house" (i.e. the connection is encrypted) and you attempt to gain access, it is breaking in, and it is wrong. Well, thats just my opinion. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited November 11, 2005).] |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
i'm thinking about setting up our router as an access point...right now it's just wide open, but i'm talking about setting it up to be a little secure, or at least the computers in our house secure, and limiting the bandwith people connecting to it have. i might be able to set a bandwith to a certain ip address range, and set the dhcp server to issue ip's from that same range, and make our computer static ip's with full access. don't nkow for sure what our linksys router is capable of yet though. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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MastaLlama Member Posts: 671 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
yeah, depends on the model. If it's one of the newer wireless-G routers it can do what you're talkin' about and more. ------------------ |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
i still need to get a switch to set things up like i want. i'm aiming to set up a smoothwall firewall between our computers and the router, even if it has one built in. i'm trying to make the set-up as business/professional like as possible since network administrator is the career i'm working toward. ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
Use WPA or WPA2 as WEP is easily crackable! I found smoothwall very easy to setup. -I don't trust my Actiontec router firewall ether. |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
well, here's another way to protect your connection::::::
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: Hee hee hee |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
quote:So if I spend $thousands on setting up a network, and $100s every month to get an ultra-fast internet connection then it's OK to use it if I don't protect it? What if I pay for my connection by the megabyte - you are stealing from me. Making something easy to take doesn't make it OK to take it - just very tempting. It doesn't matter if you complainthat it's my fault to protect it - if you steal from my house that's wrong whether I ledt the door wide open or had a huge steel door with 9 locks. Plus, how do you know a network's connected without trying to connect? If it is secure then you're trying to break in. |
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crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
well, about yer last point- most network detection programs, even the windows one, tell whether it is protected or not. about the rest of them...u r kinda distorting what i meant, but either way, this is a dead thread and most people can never agree on gray areas like this. ------------------ |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
Not only is accessing someone else's network potentially illegal -hence wrong. It is often illegal for even those who open their Internet connection to others as well. Some ISPs say this violates acceptable use policies... violates Federal Law 47 U.S.C. 553 ... maximum penalty of $50,000 and two years in jail. I hope these laws change. |
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bennythebear Member Posts: 1225 From: kentucky,usa Registered: 12-13-2003 |
jachin, do you know where i can get more info on the legality of making an access point? ------------------ proverbs 25:7 www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs |
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MastaLlama Member Posts: 671 From: Houston, TX USA Registered: 08-10-2005 |
IMHO the most secure way to set things up would be to dedicate a computer with OpenBSD on it and set it up as a router/firewall/virus scanner/email filter. the configuration can get hairy at times though. There was an interesting (yet somewhat misinforming) segment of the news last night about WiFi hostspots and hackers stealing info off your computers while you're using the hotspots. ------------------ |
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Jachin Member Posts: 113 From: Independence, OR, USA Registered: 01-03-2003 |
quote: I would first contact your ISP, and maybe read the contract and acceptable use associated with your service. I suppose you could also google your state laws and wifi access cases too. |
