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Linux – CobraA1

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
This started out as a reply to the "windows vista" thread, but I realized it would be way off topic, so I just started a new thread.

I'll probably switch to Linux before XP's support drops. I've been trying out different distros, looking for a good one.

My BIGGEST problem is getting Wine to work . It always seems ready to throw me errors and stuff. If I am to switch from Windows, I will need Wine in order to help with the transition. I've yet to find a distro that will give me a running Wine out of the box. All I want is to have an icon on my desktop that will give me something that I can use to get me some sort of Windows program manager (and/or file manager) like thing that I can use to launch the Windows apps from - that too much to ask?

Full NTFS support would also be nice. Right now, it's read-only.

Gonna try Fedora next.

Already tried:
-Gentoo, but all those recompiles are tiring. I also don't like trying to figure out which package has the application I want. It needs a GUI to manage packages.
-Debian, but its packaging system consisted of scrolling through millions of junk to find what I wanted, with no apparent way to collapse all those categories I didn't want to scroll through.
-SuSE, which is nice, and I forget why I stopped using it . . . probably the Wine problem I mentioned, plus I think it wasn't good at staying up to date with the latest versions of all the software.

Actually, a big problem I have is staying up to date. Upgrading one app will require upgrading others, some of which may need to be compiled (and of course just my luck it will require extra steps other than the standard "./config, make, make install", or I will need to go to a subfolder to run the config script), etc. The online packaging system on a Linux Distro may not have the correct versions of everything and so on. It gets messy sometimes, and I really wish there was a better way to stay up to date.

Some apps (such as GAIM) update practically weekly, and let me be honest, most distros don't keep their online packaging system up to date. If I download it manually, I take my chances and have to deal with finding the correct versions of all the dependencies. It's like Windows .dll hell all over again . . .

I think the whole "packaging" idea needs to be re-thought . . .

But I still think I'll switch to some form of Linux before switching to Windows Vista, simply because Linux is stable and has a lot of cool stuff . Especially internet stuff like Apache.

Now all I need to do is to figure out how to set up Linux's built-in firewall capabilities. I can't for the life of me figure out how Linux does it. Something to do with IP chains or something like that, and I get lost really easily.

I also need a text editor where I don't have to memorize all the keys. VI and Emacs make me feel like I'm playing a hyper-realistic flight sim . . .

Sorry if this sounds like a rant againt Linux. I really love the Linux concept, and I have full intentions to switch someday, but I can honestly say that I'm having better luck with XP. I'm actually being productive in XP. If I can get to the same level of productivity in Linux, I'll switch in a heartbeat.

------------------
6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
This started out as a reply to the "windows vista" thread, but I realized it would be way off topic, so I just started a new thread.

I only just noticed this

quote:
I'll probably switch to Linux before XP's support drops. I've been trying out different distros, looking for a good one.

My BIGGEST problem is getting Wine to work . It always seems ready to throw me errors and stuff. If I am to switch from Windows, I will need Wine in order to help with the transition. I've yet to find a distro that will give me a running Wine out of the box. All I want is to have an icon on my desktop that will give me something that I can use to get me some sort of Windows program manager (and/or file manager) like thing that I can use to launch the Windows apps from - that too much to ask?



Firstly i can already tell that Linux really isn't for you. It's not at a place where everything just compiles and runs first time out-of-the-box. What are the errors? Have you attempted to fix them?

You will only get the best out of Linux by learning from errors and just getting things sorted rather then the Windows approach "lets just reformat and start again".

quote:
Full NTFS support would also be nice. Right now, it's read-only.

Incorrect. There is experimental write support that works fine in the 2.6.12.3 kernel.

quote:
Gonna try Fedora next.

Check out reviews of the latest erm offering from Fedora... seriously not worth it.

quote:
Already tried:
-Gentoo, but all those recompiles are tiring. I also don't like trying to figure out which package has the application I want. It needs a GUI to manage packages.


Gentoo is a fantastic distro if you have the time. It's very streamlined but also very high maintanence.
quote:
-Debian, but its packaging system consisted of scrolling through millions of junk to find what I wanted, with no apparent way to collapse all those categories I didn't want to scroll through.

Did you try the Synaptic Package Manager? Or maybe just compiling the packages yourself? :P
quote:
-SuSE, which is nice, and I forget why I stopped using it . . . probably the Wine problem I mentioned, plus I think it wasn't good at staying up to date with the latest versions of all the software.

SUSE is great just i find it too bloated, but wouldn't be a bad place to start.

quote:
Actually, a big problem I have is staying up to date. Upgrading one app will require upgrading others, some of which may need to be compiled (and of course just my luck it will require extra steps other than the standard "./config, make, make install", or I will need to go to a subfolder to run the config script), etc. The online packaging system on a Linux Distro may not have the correct versions of everything and so on. It gets messy sometimes, and I really wish there was a better way to stay up to date.

There is no simple solution. Each package manager has it's strengths and weakneses and using those does make your system get messy. You don't know all the individual dependencies that have been installed and possible conflicts that they will cause with other apps.

quote:
But I still think I'll switch to some form of Linux before switching to Windows Vista, simply because Linux is stable and has a lot of cool stuff . Especially internet stuff like Apache.

I really don't suggest you switch. Unless your willing to take the time to learn it really won't suite you.

quote:
Now all I need to do is to figure out how to set up Linux's built-in firewall capabilities. I can't for the life of me figure out how Linux does it. Something to do with IP chains or something like that, and I get lost really easily.

IPtables my friend

quote:
I also need a text editor where I don't have to memorize all the keys. VI and Emacs make me feel like I'm playing a hyper-realistic flight sim . . .

Have you tried Pico or Nano?

quote:
Sorry if this sounds like a rant againt Linux. I really love the Linux concept, and I have full intentions to switch someday, but I can honestly say that I'm having better luck with XP. I'm actually being productive in XP. If I can get to the same level of productivity in Linux, I'll switch in a heartbeat.

If your willing to take the time to learn it's well worth it. But don't just use Linux because it's cool or the "leet" thing to use. Your choice of OS is based on your needs. I've been using Linux since i was like 10 because i wanted something new to learn and windows 3.11 was boring. I had to adapt and learn how to use it, I suppose this is why im against people using a GUI only, you miss out on so much power.

I've tried to be constructive so please don't take it as criticism. Remember it's all about choice and what you get on with best. Not about which one is the coolest OS to use.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Try:
Slackware
or Ubuntu. Installing Wine on slackware was a breeze. You also gotta Read the README and INSTALL files. In Wine you run .tools/wineinstall and it's will do the rest and ask you for your root password. As for NTFS write support there's a program (i think) that enables you to have NTFS write support.... but I don't remember what it's called... I'll let you know as soon as I remember.

As for a text editor use Joe, Nano or Pico very easy to use.
Oh and you may want to sign up at www.linuxquestions.org and USENET (www.groups.google.com) and you'll get lots of help

------------------
Learn How to Use Linux
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[This message has been edited by CPUFreak91 (edited August 02, 2005).]

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
There is no need for a third party app. The kernel supports it now.

Go into your kernel source folder (for instance /usr/src/linux) and run make menuconfig and then compile in the NTFS file system support ([*]< make sure its compiled in and not a module).

I would suggest using Slackware or Archlinux. Ubuntu is ok, it's one of the trendy introductions to Linux, which discourage you from using any console functionality. Anything with KDE as the default front-end deserves to be avoided! :P

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
What are the errors? Have you attempted to fix them?

It's been a while since I last had a Linux distro on my computer, I forget what they are.

------------------
6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
If you use an instant messenger program and want any help along the way then let me know.

Alternatively you can post here. I really wanna encourage people to learn Linux rather then just use Linux. There is so much functionality there once you get under the hood.

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:

Now all I need to do is to figure out how to set up Linux's built-in firewall capabilities. I can't for the life of me figure out how Linux does it. Something to do with IP chains or something like that, and I get lost really easily.



Try RedHat!!!, I just had to push redhat why I am here . Ok now about that firewall/ipchains stuff. Yeah it can be a killer when you are just starting out learning about the ipchain. If you need any help with setting the firewall up or using ipchain just let me know, I will help ya out with that. Also, there are 2 features there is ipchain and iptables. Iptables is the newer one of the 2 features and it is intended to replace ipchains for configuring Linux firewalls. But either way if you need help with this I will be around here. God bless you.


D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
No don't use Red Hat. You will learn how to everything the wrong way, because they do it their own quirky way. Coupled with the fact RPM is just plain wrong and would have been a great idea had it actually installed and configured stuff correctly rather then generically.

Seriously once people get out of Red Hat mode they never go back. It's only popular due to marketing, i can't imagine why else anyone would ever use it.

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
Don't fear the RedHat....embrace it!!! For it is the FUTURE!!! hehe. Oh with redhat you don't have to use RPM but RPMs are nice and makes installing packages very easy. You can also install software in gzip/tar format if you like or any other way. I have only used RedHat so I can't tell you much about the other Linuxs out there, but I have to say GO RedHat cause ever since I have used it I have liked it. Only thing I have disliked about Linux is it can be a pain to get a win modem to work on a Linux os, that is if you can get it to work. Some times you have to go out and buy a modem to work with Linux. Another thing is with printers... When I first started messing with Linux it was a pain trying to get my printer to work with Linux. But over all its a cool os, no matter what distro you use I think. With all this linux talk I think I am going to go an install Linux on this 60 gig hd that has win xp on it. By the way, nice meeting you D-SIPL. God bless you all.


[This message has been edited by cwc (edited August 02, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by cwc (edited August 02, 2005).]

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
RPM's are nice indeed for a linux noob like me. It's not hard to compile apps manually but RPM's can save lot of time when you don't have to hunt all the depencies. But I'm not saying it's the perfect solution - far from it. They give easy start but you it's not always so simple with them... well that's just my opinion and experience from couple months using mandrake.

Mandrake is easy to get started with but I have re-installed mandrake about ten times when something went wrong after installing new software and it booted in single user mode only. Maybe I should try some other distros but the thing I hate about linux is that it requires lot of knowledge to install drivers and other advanced stuff and if something goes wrong I'm completely lost.
Well I quess linux just requires time to learn.

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Well, no fear, I already have some experience with Linux .

Fedora core is installing nicely on my desktop.

The biggest problem is System Commander seems to be having troubles with my harddrive recently. Which has nothing to do with Linux except System Commander's problems affect the boot sector . . .

------------------
6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
ahh man Fedora *smacks head against the desk*

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005

Wooo!

------------------
Learn How to Use Linux
Geek Your Vocabulary

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cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CPUFreak91:

Wooo!


Lmbo, now that is funny, I don't care who you are. Even if the person who is reading this is a windows lover, you got to admit, that is a GOOD BURN!!!

God bless you all.

[This message has been edited by cwc (edited August 03, 2005).]

[This message has been edited by cwc (edited August 03, 2005).]

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
what's a good distro of linux to set up a media machine. by media machine, i mean playing movies, burning cd's, and possibly burning movies(not likely going to happen). i have a mini-itx 1ghz celeron motherboard i'm setting up, i just have to get the case made for it, and a find a good linux distro to set up on it.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i've got to get linux installed on something...i was checking out fluxbox, and it looks great. i like the minimalist approach, plus saving memory space is always a plus. i dread d/l over a 56k connection though, that going to be horrid.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
maybe u should get one of those books on linux that comes with a distro on a cd...i am thinking about getting linux and CPUFreak told me this was a good way to do it and leanr about linux too. And since you only have dial up, u shuld seriously consider. I hated dial up soo much.....those were dark times...

------------------
globalrant.tk

btw...its crazy-ish-one

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I think there are a few media orientated distro's. Maybe if your juststarting out and just want a cheap media station, then MEPIS might be worth a look. I think it has a book in the stores called Point and Click linux or something.

Fluxbox is nice, just dont even attempt to use it unless you know your way around your console.

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i have linux for dummies. it comes with a few different distros but some of them don't work. like the mandrake distro. it will boot from the cd, but then the installer says there isn't a cd drive! this happened on 2 different computers, with 2 different cd drives. it said it had fedora, but i think it's one of them "compile yourself" deals...which makes no sense for a newbie book. now that i think of it, i don't even know where the dvd is at! oh well...i've gotta go scrounge up some money to ship a cpu i sold on ebay...later

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Fluxbox is nice, just dont even attempt to use it unless you know your way around your console.

I strongly disagree... I rarely use the console... guess how.

I use kde components but not the KDE window manager/whatever.

------------------
Learn How to Use Linux
Geek Your Vocabulary

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CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
. . . and Linksys doen't make, support, or develop drivers for Linux . . .

. . . so again, Linux goes back to "toy" status on my machine .

It likes my GeForce video card, though .

------------------
6 "This is what the LORD says --
Israel's King and Redeemer, the LORD Almighty:
I am the first and I am the last;
apart from me there is no God.

7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it.
Let him declare and lay out before me
what has happened since I established my ancient people,
and what is yet to comeó
yes, let him foretell what will come.

8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid.
Did I not proclaim this and foretell it long ago?
You are my witnesses. Is there any God besides me?
No, there is no other Rock; I know not one." -- Isaiah 44:6-8, NIV

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
I strongly disagree... I rarely use the console... guess how.
I use kde components but not the KDE window manager/whatever.


The whole point of fluxbox for me, is that I have a streamlined distro without all the KDE bloat. I could use KDE to create a user account for example, but whats the point cluttering up my hard drive when adduser in Slackware has lots of configuration options.

I don't think you will ever appreciate Linux fully unless you start getting used to the console, maybe write some shell scripts of your own.

Maybe i'm just an old skool linux zealot. There is nothing like hacking away late at night with VIM and Python syntax highlighting

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'd like to to what d-sipl just talked about...but first i have to get comfortable with linux, then start tearing into it. right now i can install it, and run stuff through kde or gnome, that's about it. i've got ot learn the file system, learn all the commands for the console, and possibly write some scripts later on...if i can think of a reason to write a script.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:

The whole point of fluxbox for me, is that I have a streamlined distro without all the KDE bloat.
[/B]


Well i disagree again a few things in kde are usefull I just use them and the library. If I type xinit /opt/kde/bin/startkde... well /opt/kde doesn't even exist. Konqueror is in the /usr/bin and /bin folders... oh. Konqueror is about the only thing I use. I don't really like emelfm. Ofcourse that has kept me from learning how to uncompress an archive by console... oh I also love konsole that's the main console I use (i don't like xterm)

------------------
Learn How to Use Linux
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D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Each to their own. CPUFreak you really don't know what your missing out on
Say for instance you and I were working on a project together and I needed you to setup some source control like subversion, you certaintly won't find a decent GUI for it. There are so many cases were the console is so much quicker. At the end of the day, the GUI is a good front end if your new to it all, but as soon as you start to learn about Linux you'll have to start digging deeper. If you like your GUI's and Unix go and buy a Mac :P

Oh yeh and i use bash for my console if thats of any interest

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Oooh I just found what I was missing out on!!! The best windows manager I've tried yet is Enlightenment!!! Well you're right each to his own... the UNIX wars let Microsoft get a good hold on the computer market.. we don't need any more wars of any kind (in the computer industry. Fights on terrorism are ok with me).

------------------
Learn How to Use Linux
Geek Your Vocabulary

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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
There are so many cases were the console is so much quicker.

You know... I'm beginning to like Slackware... except I'm stuck with the 2.4 kernel... I could upgrade it.

Yes on slashdot there was a study and they found out that vi is quicker than emacs because emacs uses the mouse so much.


Bash rocks!!! I have 3.00.

------------------
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cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
Yeah I have to say that I like the command line/console myself. I have my linux where it starts up in text mode. If I want to use gnome(which that is the gui I use) all I have to do is type startx and up comes my GUI. But I have to say that working with a linux GUI is better cause a GUI will allow a person to open up 10 consoles if they need them. So that is why I would say using a linux GUI is better then just working in text mode.

God bless you all.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Thats cool CPUFreak, i also get bored of the OS wars. Everybody has their fave OS and thats fine with me, I can't stand people who use Linux just because it's "teh leetest OS!!!111oneoneone" as they put it.

Enlightenment is nice (haven't used it for 2 years), it's no were near as nice as XFCE though

As far as multi-tasking in console, I have 40 virtual consoles open on my LFS box. I just switch between screens. I have VIM with the python syntax highlighting on one, I have irssi as my irc client on another, and various other things like subversion and stuff like that on the others

To upgrade the kernel in Slackware CPUFreak, download the latest tarball linux-2.6.12.3.tar.gz. Open up a console and type

tar -xzvf linux-2.6.12.3.tar.gz /usr/src
rm linux (in your /usr/src directory)
mv linux-2.6.12.3 linux

then go into the directory
make mrproper
make menuconfig

make sure when you are in menuconfig that you at least use the ? on mudules you dont understand and it will explain them to you, otherwise things will fall apart when you reboot.

Don't forget to configure LILO with the new kernel as well

Happy Hacking :P

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Well you forgot a few things... makemenuconfig (or make gconfig or make xconfig), then make then make modules then make modules_install then some command for the initrd.gz... make initrid (i think)..

I tried that and the booting just sticks on loading udev... I have GCC 3.4.3 which is required for the 2.6 kernel.... grr.

------------------
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CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Sorry for posting twice but something went wacky..,

I don't use LILO i use GRUB... just some more info.

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1. Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new features.
2. Expect the output of every program to become the input to another, as yet unknown, program. Don't clutter output with extraneous information. Avoid stringently columnar or binary input formats. Don't insist on interactive input.
3. Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and rebuild them.
4. Use tools in preference to unskilled help to lighten a programming task, even if you have to detour to build the tools and expect to throw some of them out after you've finished using them.

-- Programming guidlines from the early UNIX developer community.


Learn How to Use Linux

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D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
ok well dont forget to configure grub then lol.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
Well i got past my udev problem and it's stuck on SCSI.. I'll just remove SCSI support... for now. Is that bad?

By configuring GRUB do you mean to load the initrid.gz file? If so I've been doing that

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1. Make each program do one thing well. To do a new job, build afresh rather than complicate old programs by adding new features.
2. Expect the output of every program to become the input to another, as yet unknown, program. Don't clutter output with extraneous information. Avoid stringently columnar or binary input formats. Don't insist on interactive input.
3. Design and build software, even operating systems, to be tried early, ideally within weeks. Don't hesitate to throw away the clumsy parts and rebuild them.
4. Use tools in preference to unskilled help to lighten a programming task, even if you have to detour to build the tools and expect to throw some of them out after you've finished using them.

-- Programming guidlines from the early UNIX developer community.


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D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Well i got past my udev problem and it's stuck on SCSI.. I'll just remove SCSI support... for now. Is that bad?

By configuring GRUB do you mean to load the initrid.gz file? If so I've been doing that



Well disable SCSI support if your mobo doesn't support it. Also go through and make sure that everything you need is either compiled in or a module and everything you don't need is taken out. Your .config file was generated by Slackware and is very generic, and therefore bloated, so streamline that kernel.

After you compile the kernel are you making a bzImage of it? Because you will need to get rid of the old image and point Grub to the new one, then add another entry in your grub.conf for the old kernel just in case the first one fails.

Then be sure to run xorgconfig after you have built the kernel to make sure you have X setup correctly.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Well disable SCSI support if your mobo doesn't support it.

I did.

> Also go through and make sure that everything you need is either compiled > in or a module and everything you don't need is taken out. Your .config > > file was generated by Slackware and is very generic, and therefore
> bloated, so streamline that kernel.

I did that too

> After you compile the kernel are you making a bzImage of it?
Yes

> Because you > will need to get rid of the old image and point Grub to the new one, then > add another entry in your grub.conf for the old kernel just in case the
> first one fails.

I had that during my compile testing. It would be very stupid to not have a backup wouldn't it? but you can edit the boot command.

> Then be sure to run xorgconfig after you have built the kernel to make
> sure you have X setup correctly.
No need. It worked fine.

Kernel boots fine now (after 7 compiles) but I get this message:
Attached SCSI generic
sg0 at scsi0, channel0, id0, lun0, type0.

It sticks for exactly 2 minutes 14 seconds (I timed it) and then
continues booting. Do you know why this does this?

Thanks for the help D-SIPL.

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Programming is a computer related thing. If you can't use a computer you'd better stop programming.

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Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Anyone ever tried Mandrake? I have it setup to duel boot with Windows. It seems neat. Only thing is that I can't seem to get it setup correctly with my video card...

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I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
Yeah I have mandrake and windows dual booting as well. What video card you have brandon? I managed to install new drivers to geforce but installing ATI's drivers seems to be harder.

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Do you mean "Mandriva"? It's one of those hold your hand distro's which is great for the beginner, but gets a little irritating after a while.

quote:
> Because you > will need to get rid of the old image and point Grub to the new one, then > add another entry in your grub.conf for the old kernel just in case the
> first one fails.

I had that during my compile testing. It would be very stupid to not have a backup wouldn't it? but you can edit the boot command.



The amount of stupid people out there though is shocking

quote:

> Then be sure to run xorgconfig after you have built the kernel to make
> sure you have X setup correctly.
No need. It worked fine.


Any generic xorgconfig works fine out of the installation, but you won't get the best out of your graphics card without editing this. Up to you though.

quote:
Kernel boots fine now (after 7 compiles) but I get this message:
Attached SCSI generic
sg0 at scsi0, channel0, id0, lun0, type0.


Go into: and make sure it looks like this...
Device Drivers -------->
SCSI Device Support --------->
[ ] legacy /proc/scsi/ support
< > SCSI disk support
< > SCSI generic support

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Cool Jari! My video card is an: "NVIDIA GeForce MX 440 with AGP8X" It seemed I had installed the driver correctly at first, but now it crashes whenever I try to launch a game, or try to shutdown...

Hey D-SIPL, I see that it was called Mandrake but is now Mandrivia! I haven't been on the site in probably longer than a year :| Yeah what I like most about it is the installation and setup. 'Twas smooth and simple. Cause I remember trying to install Peanut Linux. How gruesome the process was. I never really had the time to properly fool around and install it... Linux does look interesting in general though...

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I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God for salvation of everyone who believes: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Nice one Brandon. If you need any help give me a shout.

I used to have a copy of Peanut Linux but i preferred Tiny Linux, fitting on 11 floppies in total. That summer i got very comfortable with gcc
I'm so glad the GUI wasn't around in them days, i spent so much time learning the command line and shell scripting, which was pretty fancy for an 11 year old. We had a really cool teacher who still ran Unix on one of the school mainframes, he taught us so much.

It really makes you appreciate the Linux kernel a lot more, to see how it actually works.

I've been doing some modifications to Minix if anyone is interesting in seeing it in action and wants to test it out. You'll need Bochs and some unix knowledge.

--D-SIPL


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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

[This message has been edited by D-SIPL (edited August 10, 2005).]

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by brandon:
Cool Jari! My video card is an: "NVIDIA GeForce MX 440 with AGP8X" It seemed I had installed the driver correctly at first, but now it crashes whenever I try to launch a game, or try to shutdown...

Hmm I dunno about that, have you configured it by editing the conf file?

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Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1

And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
run xorgconfig and select the nvidia driver. Also make sure that you have Nvidia support compiled into your kernel.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Any generic xorgconfig works fine out of the installation, but you won't get the best out of your graphics card without editing this. Up to you though.

oh the vesa driver... he he. That's got deleted about a month ago when I figured out how to configure X properly (with accelerated graphics). The new 2.6 driver seems to work great.

Ok. I'll remove everything related to SCSI (I learned it's pronounced 'scuzzy' not 'Ess-See-Ess-Eye'.

------------------
Programming is a computer related thing. If you can't use a computer you'd better stop programming.

Learn How to Use Linux

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
I've been doing some modifications to Minix if anyone is interesting in seeing it in action and wants to test it out. You'll need Bochs and some unix knowledge.

I'd like it... if I can download it. How big is it? Does it have documentation? One more Q. Is minix still under development?

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Programming is a computer related thing. If you can't use a computer you'd better stop programming.

Learn How to Use Linux

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Well Andy Tenenbaun the creator says he works on it "when I have nothing to do" but there are lots of people still contributing to it. The thing is since he made it public domain in 2000 the off-shoots of it have all stemmed into their own projects. It's been in version 2.0 for some years now.

I might contribute some code, if it's good enough. I can make an iso image of my version, it would be around 10mb i guess. Have you used bochs before?

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Invincible_777

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Republic, WA USA
Registered: 03-29-2005
Man, I am SOOOO happy to find a Christian place to discuss such an awesome topic!! I would say that that Gentoo is the funnest distro of them all. But it does have some learning curve. But you always have the most updated versions of ALL apps!! I also think Fedora/(redhat i hear is similar) is the worst with the RedhatPackageManagement. SuSE 9x is really nice, It is what I am using now, but I am going to go back to Gentoo. Actually, FreeBSD is a possible option too, really stable, secure, but again, some learning curve.. I forget who had the delema, but Stay with it! God Bless guys.

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Show your true Potential in whatever you do.....

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Hey Invincible_777, welcome to CCN! Very glad to have you hear!

I haven't done much with Gentoo, but it sounds really neat.

I just got into Linux recently with Debian, and I must say that I *love* Aptitude, and the whole Debian packages thing. I really don't like Fedora, and RPM's confuse the heck out of me. Debian makes it so easy for me to get into Linux and install just what I want.

Oh yeah, and Fluxbox rocks too.

For development on Linux I use Mono, and it works *really* nice.

--clint

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http://www.includingjudas.com/christiangame.html

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
Hi Invincible_777. Welcome to CCN!
Sorry for not stopping by to say hi earlier, I forgot and now came back to say something about ubuntu...
I'm starting to get tired of mandrake because it's unstable and wide range of the libs and KDE which came in the 10.1 CD are out dated so I decided to try another OS and this time select one with the latest libraries and apps.

So I decided to install ubuntu because it was ranked as best linux (after suse) in one magazine and it has the newest libraries. Getting wine working in ubuntu was easy, just had to set the repositories for wine packages like guided in winehq and install the wine. Ubuntu also had drivers for my ATI card but I had to change one line in conf file to take them in use. In mandrake I never got ATI working (hardware accelaration that is) because the installation soft didn't find some kernel modules and I don't know how to install them. However sounds didn't work and I had to install some alsa version of the drivers to get them working which was easy to do because there was instructions in ubuntu FAQ.
So I would recommend to any one who is considering to install a new OS to try ubuntu. Especially if you are new to linux.


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And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. - Col 3:17

Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1

[This message has been edited by Jari (edited August 15, 2005).]

CPUFreak91

Member

Posts: 2337
From:
Registered: 02-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
it would be around 10mb i guess. Have you used bochs before?

Ok. I can handle 10mb. Never used bochs

------------------
Programming is a computer related thing. If you can't use a computer you'd better stop programming.

Learn How to Use Linux

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
quick question...how good of a distro is suse? i'm working on getting it d/l (will take around a week ). i've tried mandrake(it was mandrake then), and redhat...i never could get fedora to install/work right. oh, and how hard is it to set up a dial-up connection for a service such as wal-mart connect, or america online through linux? i don't care about having the memory wasting programs, i just want the connection. i wish i had dsl still...those were the good ol' days...

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

Jari

Member

Posts: 1471
From: Helsinki, Finland
Registered: 03-11-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
i wish i had dsl still...those were the good ol' days...


May I recommend ubuntu, it's 600mb. But you can also request a CD for free.

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And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God and the Father by him. - Col 3:17

Unless the LORD builds the house, they labor in vain who build it; unless the LORD keeps the city, the watchman stays awake in vain. - Psalms 127:1

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
cool, i ordered some cd's right after i reade this thread. i'm fixing to go look up more info on it.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
oh, and how hard is it to set up a dial-up connection for a service such as wal-mart connect, or america online through linux?


Not that hard as long as you have a modem that works with linux, alot of win modems are a pain to get working on linux. Some times you can get the drivers for them and sometimes you can't.Some drivers are free and some drivers you have to pay a extra fee. Anyways you can try it with the modem you have and if it does not work just get your chip set number off of your modem and do a linux driver search on the chip. If that fails go and buy yourself a modem that will work with linux. Also you prob have to manually set up the walmart connection cause I don't think they have software for the linux os(could be wrong), as for aol I am not sure.

God bless you all

[This message has been edited by cwc (edited August 17, 2005).]

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Dial up is no troube to get setup. If you have a win modem, then use ndiswrapper and get the windows inf file for it.

compile ndiswrapper
$> ndiswrapper -i blah.inf

then check to make sure its been installed

$> ndiswrapper -l

it should say driver installed, hardware present or something. Then type

$> modprobe ndiswrapper

and your done. This is how i get my wireless up and running in Slackware, it's fairly straight forward.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

cwc

Member

Posts: 121
From: USA
Registered: 07-30-2005
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Dial up is no troube to get setup. If you have a win modem, then use ndiswrapper and get the windows inf file for it.

compile ndiswrapper
$> ndiswrapper -i blah.inf

then check to make sure its been installed

$> ndiswrapper -l

it should say driver installed, hardware present or something. Then type

$> modprobe ndiswrapper

and your done. This is how i get my wireless up and running in Slackware, it's fairly straight forward.

--D-SIPL



Cool D-SIPL, I have to try that. Sweet and thanks.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
no worries. Looking back, where i say compile it, i mean ndiswrapper.

Just the usual make distclean, make , make install

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler