Posts: From: Registered: |
Atheists like to distort the bible and they use this site which I find weak. http://www.skepticsannotatedbible.com/ Before a atheist attacks the bible why not be ahead of the game. this site is about skeptitcs which attack the bible. Well most are from the Old Testament which does not apply to us since Christ said not to follow the old but the new. They can not explain how a common bee or another human thinks but they think they can explain God which is far more complex. I call that delusional. |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Yeah the Old Testament is too easy to diss... I mean God wipes out the whole world. Poor innocent Velociraptors, living alongside the humans in harmony. Those things you listed are in there, though... if your son is disobedient you can take him to the authorities to be killed lol. |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
I belive your being ethnocentric. hmmm.. I belive that's a mortal sin in the liberal code of ethics... ------------------ |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
I've seen it - it's good for laughs, not much more. They're not very credible, IMHO. It's too bad some people actually take them seriously .
quote: LOL. I seriously doubt it. After the fall, I'm sure the Velociraptors were quite dangerous. Don't you believe that dinos and humans didn't live together anyways? You're so easy to diss . The Christian ThinkTank explains the more difficult issues quite well . Tektonics has a whole section debunking the SAB.
quote: That's what most of what the SAB is anyways (the rest is usually misunderstanding what they've read) - they want to judge the Bible according to their own ethics - who is to say their ethics are any better? Why should we trust them with ethical issues? ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited July 28, 2005).] [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited July 28, 2005).] |
Jari Member Posts: 1471 From: Helsinki, Finland Registered: 03-11-2005 |
Good that they have "good stuff" page in there, might make some to understand that Bible really is good stuff. And the Contradictions page just shows their ignorance... *sigh* ------------------ And the work of righteousness shall be peace; and the effect of righteousness quietness and assurance for ever. - Isa 32:17 |
d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
quote:Which of these that they claim are in the bible do you dispute? |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
First off, I see no reason why I should "dispute" half of the junk. Seriously, why should the Bible be, say, free of "sex"? There is no law saying the Bible can't mention sex! The "sex" section seems to be mostly the author of SAB having some obsession . . . Even when he's not getting his cheap jollies, the points he makes are mostly ethical - so, the question remains, why should we take his view of ethics & morals? And even in his "contradicions" section, one of the few worth looking at, because I'm sure a lot of skeptics use it, his brain cell doesn't quite seem to be working very well. Take a look here:
quote: Correct my math, but 12-1=11 ! Where in the world does he get 10?! Or is he confused by the appearance of "Thomas, . . . called Didymus" - which indicated that Thomas had a nickname? And if the skeptic had cared to read John 20:24-29, his question would be answered. Jesus first saw the 11 (w/out Thomas), then a week later he saw all 12. There are two events where Jesus meets his disciples. ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited July 28, 2005).] |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Well the Nephilim were much too large to use horses as their mounts, and were often seen riding into battle on Triceratops. It was only natural that the smaller, faster dinosaurs became allies with the regular humans. We can only assume that their alliance broke down... as is clearly seen in Jurassic Park, the raptors and that dude with the shotgun understand one another's hunting patterns. So did they become enemies before, or after, Noah neglected to bring them on board the ark? |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: The turning point for animals becoming mean & cruel was the fall, not the flood. The fall, BTW, was before the flood. And if they were not extinct before the flood, I'm sure Noah (with God's help) would've bought a couple on board. Their extinction was probably due to the harsh climate changes that happened during & after the flood. Cute stories in your first two paragraphs, lol. Too bad they're just fiction. ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. |
Max Member Posts: 523 From: IA Registered: 09-19-2004 |
I liked the dinosaur story... ------------------ |
d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
Wheras Noah putting dinosaurs on the Ark is a factual account... it has to have been that they were extinct before the flood (if the flood literally covered the Earth, and if fossils really formed in just a few thousand years, and all that other tired stuff...) |
kiwee Member Posts: 578 From: oxfordshire, england Registered: 04-17-2004 |
man, that must have taken ages to make too bad it is a bunch on cruddy lies! ------------------ |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
What took ages to make? I'm lost. Basically, God is Professor Oak, and Noah is Ash Ketchum. You can tell him to fill up the Pokedex, but do you really think he's gonna catch every single creature? Now, the dinosaurs, obviously frustrated and ashamed at It's unknown what caused the first disagreements, although it is possible that the raptors' skill with ice-magic was envied by their Muggle pals. |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
Ah, I see - CheeseStorm has been watching Pokémon again - that explains a lot . . . Try reading your Bible next time, and not your Pokédex . . . Noah is not Ash . . . he didn't have to "catch them all" - Genesis 6:20 says they will "come to you" ("you"=Noah), and Genesis 7:9 says they "came to Noah" in my NIV Bible. He also had about 100 years to accomplish the task (a lot longer than Ash did ).
quote: Indeed. We're extrapolating quite a bit of stuff from a science that is still quite young. Creationists do indeed have their own theories about the layering of the fossils, BTW. ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. |
CapnStank Member Posts: 214 From: Sask, Canada Registered: 12-16-2004 |
quote: Why should we take yours? ------------------ |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
"What is this, amateur hour?!" - Ron Burgundy I'm no geologist or archaeologist, but that site you posted was a joke. I'll go on if you want me to, but how can you take that crap seriously? The fact remains: We don't find dinosaur skeletons with human ones. |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
what if human bones are composed slightly differently and decompose faster???? Just a thought. ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
my little problem with the dating systems is that it assumes that the environment remained relatively constant. however, is it not a tenant of evolution that the environment changes? just my little skepticism of the day. ------------------ |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: I didn't ask that you take mine. I asked why I should take his.
quote: I see you've mastered the Ad Hominem.
quote: I'm not sure I get your point here. Of course they're talking about the whole world, the Grand Canyon was just one example.
quote: And why not? They are, after all, young earth creationists (they believe the age of the Earth is in the 6000-10000 year range). I'm sure any old-earth creationist/evolutionist/etc is suspicious of anybody who claims that the Earth is young.
quote: Well, they claim to have evidence if you look at their website. Whether or not you believe their evidence is another matter.
quote: Maybe. Are you an expert on animal pschychology? Do you know exactly what a Triceratops would do? Did you read enough of the article to know that intelligence was only one possible factor in the sorting of the fossils anyways?
quote: That's part of their theory, yes.
quote: Go on with what? This stuff? #2 = Ad Hominem, ridiculing their beliefs. #3 = Failing to read more of their website. #4 = Possible valid point, if you knew how a Triceratops would react. Even then, though, you ignore the other possible methods they list for the layering/sorting of the fossils. #5 = Well, you just restated a portion of their theory. Thanks, but no thanks. I'd rather not waste our time and have you go on then . . .
quote: The fact remains: Yes, they do attempt to explain it. ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited July 31, 2005).] |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
i have read in a science books (from christian school) that they have found fossils of human feet prints. this in itself is not all that spectacular, but the other thing they found was quite interesting. There was, in the footprint, the fossil of an isect like creature that secular scientist had considered "prehistoric".... point is...a long time ago a man stepped on a bug that secular scientists say shoudlnt have been there.
[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited August 01, 2005).] |
CapnStank Member Posts: 214 From: Sask, Canada Registered: 12-16-2004 |
I always look at the existance of certain bugs in a very skeptical way. Since they remain so tiny there's pretty much a 99% chance that we havn't come close to discovering the potential number of insects that exist. Just look at the idea of deep rainforests for example. I'm sure there's a vast number of undiscovered bugs within there. We all know bugs have been around for a long time, but dating them is probably one of the harder things to do. Correct me if I'm wrong but from a look at cheese's posts they seem to be quite a bit on the lines of a joke for the most part. His most recent post accepted that they were trying to explain a evolution point of view but he rejected a lot of the comments on there as stupid, which you of course are doing as well. Somehow, as you share the same view, you find a way to argue on it. Once again, I could just be very tired (it is 2:45AM) and I just completely misread the whole conversation. I still think it looks like Cobra is looking for an arguement more than anything. ------------------ |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: You're thinking of the the Laetoli prints, which are identical to modern human footprints. The only reason paleoanthropologists claim they were made by A. afarensis (aka Lucy) is the dating: they are too “old” to have been made by modern man. That’s why artistic renditions in magazines like National Geographic show the tracks being made by a family of evolving creatures with an upright gait, human feet and ape-like faces. The problem is that if you look at the anatomy of the foot bones of afarensis they were highly unlikely to have made the Laetoli footprints. |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
It was an Anchorman quote, not an attack. The Grand Canyon does not represent the whole world. I mean real evidence about dino-dragons from human times... can't believe I just said that. No, I'm not an expert on animal psychology, let alone dinosaur psychology. But let's use common sense: Triceratops were herd creatures, they protected the young (and elderly?) on the inside of the herd with the tougher ones on the outside. Raptors were pack-hunters, like wolves. What would a wolf do if the water was rising on one side? Lie down, take a nap? Wade in deeper until it drowned? Let's give the dinos some credit here, people. So entire cities were drowned, supposedly alongside dinosaurs, and yet there's no humans skeletons with them. Those fish ate all our bones too? Fascinating! What sort of bone-crushing fish are we talking about? Oh wait it's a guess with no evidence to back it up. Please, post some of your own thoughts, or go read and report back. Otherwise I'll keep track of how many Christian sites you've thrown at me and return with... an equal number of hampsterdance versions. *edit* Dunno how you think the consistent results we get from dating methods are 'wrong' but, what about fossil fuels? Hell those alone have been forming for millions of years... ACCEPT DATING METHODS, DAMNIT. Fossils take a long time! [This message has been edited by CheeseStorm (edited August 01, 2005).] |
crazyishone Member Posts: 1685 From: Registered: 08-25-2004 |
quote: hmmm.nvm...we are talking about fossils and less so actual bones....i feel dumb. ------------------ [This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited August 01, 2005).] |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: You don't have time to do much of anything when a towering wall of water, silt, and debris moving at supersonic speeds hits and buries you under sendiment. Oh, and everything you mentioned in regards to behavior is not facts, they are extrapolations. If you're under the impression that the experts all agree on this subject then you're wrong. For example, with the T. Rex there are competing camps of those who believe it was a super-predator and others who point to certain facts that indicate it might have been a scavenger.
quote: That logical fallacy you just employed was called the strawman argument.
quote: Bloated bodies that weren't buried would float along the surface. As the flesh deteoriated or pieces would randomly fall. To be buried alongside a dinosaur you would (1) need to be eaten by one and then fossilized while still partially digested or (2) need to domesticate the dinosaurs...both scenarios are unlikely.
quote: Try taking your own advise.
quote: Oh, really? I've been following the research related to H. floresiensis since the find was first announced last September. The dating by radiocarbon (14C), luminescence, uranium-series, and electron spin resonance (ESR) methods indicated that H. floresiensis existed from before 38,000 years ago (kyr) until at least 18 kyr. However, if all of the sectors that were excavated are included, fragments date from the oldest being dated at 95,000 years ago and the youngest being dated at a mere 13,000 years ago. The stone “tools” found at the site were dated at around 800,000 years old. In contrast, anthropologists dated the find at 1,300 to 1,800 years ago. "Certain people" had determined H. floresiensis was a "missing link" MONTHS BEFORE they had even analyzed the sample! They had even begun to weave a complicated story to fit the new scenario before knowing the empirical evidence. The original researchers, who had the sample for months, determined it was not a new species, instead classifying it as a sub-species of Homo sapiens under the Austrolomelanesid race. After it was released to other scientists I was "surprised" when a lab in Europe declared within a week that the original researchers were wrong and they had "verified" their original hypothesis/story. About their story, let us use a smidgeon of common sense. Against the objections of the original researchers (who are so nicely barely mentioned, if at all, as "critics" in most of the articles I've read), they're stating that xxx number of years ago this hominid species must have traveled from Africa and then evolved their intelligence AFTER being on the island. This a remote island off the chain which includes Indonesia. Unintelligent animals wouldn't know how to build boats, would they? I checked with a geologist friend of mine and land bridges that would allow them to reach this remote destination would not have existed at the time. Funnily enough, this past May scientists found a community of Pygmy people on the eastern island of Flores, a mere 1KM from the village of Liang Bua where the Australian scientists had discovered the dwarf-sized skeleton last year and subsequently declared it a new human species. Considering they'd already declared this "new species" to be extinct it just doubles the irony. As to your other assertions... Fossilisation can occur in several weeks depending on conditions. The formation of "fossil fuels" can also occur in a short amount of time. I'm not a hardcore YEC but neither do I let utter nonsense pass if I know it to be dogma falsified many a time. [This message has been edited by Gump (edited August 01, 2005).] |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
My bad, didn't know the water was moving at supersonic speeds... it's just the expert sites Cobra posted said that the smarter animals would have time to seek out higher ground. I heard about that T-Rex thing too... can't decide on it... maybe it killed when it was really hungry and scavenged whenever it felt like pushing around the tinier carnivores? I'm just guessing... my only research is watching Jurassic Park 900 times. So wouldn't our bodies float with the dinosaurs if we were all killed at the same time? Oh I take my own advice lol... all I post are my thoughts! Maaaaha, it works it works. What I was saying is (to Cobra), stop just posting links, gimme your argument and I'll give you mine, not a 100+page of FAQ. Hey, that's cool, then we could have like super-fast growing of fossil fuels somehow but by that time we'd have like fusion or something but still, anything that makes the Arabs less rich is good good good. [This message has been edited by klumsy (edited August 01, 2005).] |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: There are multiple Flood models. The versions that include the break up of a single continent would produce Tsunamis of monstrous scale.
quote: Depends on the creature. Also, even if 2 bodies floated close to each other and sank at the same time in the turbulent waters they could easily get separated by hundreds of feet to miles. Not to mention, this line of discussion is kind of pointless since in those conditions the bodies would be unlikely to fossilise. The bodies would need to be encased in a sedimentary matrix quickly in order for them to be very close to meet the conditions you desire as solid evidence.
quote: There are actually several companies that have methods to produce oil out of leftovers from the farming industry. Then there are companies who make oil using soy beans. Problem is, even after the recent price hikes it's still more cost effective to go with natural oil since last time I checked they could produce a gallon of gas for around $3+. Even if gas prices rise beyond $3 they're still not capable of producing enough quantity to provide for the nation. Oh, and oil can be naturally produced in a short time scale given enough pressure. Unfortunately I do not remember the variables off the top of my head...and you just said you weren't interested in reading posted links. |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Heh all this flood-talk is sweet, it's baking hot out here. God used rain in the flood, right? Don't you need to move a lot of earth to stir up tsunamis or is that a different model? Mowww I still don't get it, lots of dinos, no humans, WUHGIVES, dare I scroll up DUDE they should make a movie about the Old Testament stuff, but pissed-off God would be so awesome on Imax, with meteors and stuff, and didn't they Moses fight the giants in Numbers or something? All we need is that 'chaos' engine or whatever that they used for lotr, and then some deleted scenes like Moses changing God's mind whenever he gets choked, what other cool stuff, well mostly just battles and miracles/explosions. Hard to make the creation deal, with God designing stuff, I was thinking it could start off all gray, and then he splits it up into dark matter and .. normal matter, or dark/light energy or whatever, then he slaps some people down and the plot takes off, also Satan trying to take over, there'd be this big angel vs. angel brawl. before i go to watch signs, klumsy, do u check out all the new posts or did someone/thing tell u when a pic gets added, just wondering, cause it wasnt offencive, u must've laughed also gump sure i'll read links as long as i dont have to hunt around thru several more before finding the stuff |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: I guess a class in critical thinking, a little bit of participation in debate competitions, and several classes involving formal logic (foundational stuff for processor & software design - the programmer's version of mathematics) did that to me . As I've said, BTW, they do have other theories other than running away from the water to explain the fossil sorting, so even if you knock that point down, it does not knock the whole theory down. The effects of water would have a definite effect on the fossils - after all, some things tend to sink better than others in a fluid.
quote: Ask your local shark. No, wait, they didn't say the bones were eaten by the fish anyways! They just said they would be scavenged by fish, and that the bones would break down rather quickly, and not be preserved (fossilized).
quote: The supposed original, but I digress, the music doesn't sound right . . . Besides, what is wrong with using people who are more qualified than I as references for a discussion? IMHO, the logic and the reasoning are more important than the source of the discussion. Your hatred of using links is interesting, but illogical.
quote: Oh, the creationists have explanations for the fossil fuels also - plants & stuff buried during the flood. And what dating methods? Radio dating? Tree ring? Radiohaloes? There's quite a few dating methods, and I have to disagree with "consistent results." Usually, the agreements arise because one method is used to calibrate the other, which forces them to agree. Otherwise, I'm not seeing all that agreement.
quote: Most scientists on both sides of this discussion would have some bones to pick with Jurrasic Park. It's hardly a good source of information if you're looking for scientific accuracy.
quote: Many flood models include massive amounts of tectonic movement, in addition to the rain.
quote: I'm getting the feeling it won't matter if we have an explanation or not, you just like to keep harping on an issue we've already explained. Did you even bother to read Gump's posts? ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. [This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited August 01, 2005).] |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Alright so the fish ate the human flesh only, letting our bones disappear (!). I had no idea scavengers were so picky. Oh I would ask a shark, but they've evolved to be so dangerous.. er, the older extinct models were replaced by more efficient ones... those poor old-school sharks must've drowned in the flood! Or maybe a wall of mud going mach 5 hit them, while today's sharks used their Matrix skills to... oh who am I kidding? They came later. Yeah my internet was too slow to get the whole hampsterdance song... I had to let that mini-version load for a bit. "Did you even bother to read Gump's posts?" And watching JP 900 times was a joke... I should've simplified my argument a bit more, perhaps... flash cards? But no, Velociraptors were half the size of those in the movie. Aha! So debate classes are the key to your power! STRAW MAN AD HOMINEM STRAW MAN AD HOMINEM STRAW MAN AD HOMINEM "He's charging up, quick, use logic!" "It's no use... he took logic classes!" |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: Bones becoming fossilized is actually quite rare - most of the time they do decay (although more slowly than the other parts) or are chewed on by scavengers.
quote: Just a second ago, you were whining that the bones were eaten ("Those fish ate all our bones too? Fascinating! What sort of bone-crushing fish are we talking about?"). So, do you think it's reasonable to say that the bones were or weren't eaten? Make up your mind!
quote: Your "beef" is noted. You did not win brownie points with me by whining. Yeah, I read your post. And I responded to it: quote: Thanks for not answering my question . . . Not that I should, but I guess I'll give a couple (of the several) links that may answer some of your questions more directly fom that "table of contents" you so very despise:
quote: LOL! OK, I guess I can let a little humor in . ------------------ 7 Who then is like me? Let him proclaim it. 8 Do not tremble, do not be afraid. |
CheeseStorm Member Posts: 521 From: Registered: 11-28-2004 |
Baaah submitted without 'completing all fields' or whatever, now I have to start over cause it didn't save the deal for some reason. Hampsterdance=robin hood theme (animated fox version), couldn't they sue Pixels didn't carry my sarcasm over well enough, I meant if scavengers somehow ate up all the human bodies+bones, they'd eat up the dinos too, then we wouldnt know about them and there'd be no jurassic park, and then behemoth would be king of the giraffes yay My beef is over the border in your Burger King,but, if my beef was 'noted' how come you say it didn't answer your question, cause that was my answer: im not reading that much, i forgot what i was looking for after five or so random pages, Behemoth thing was cool though, yes, yes i despise the table of contents anyways, was reading your good book again, how come someone who is damaged in the "stones" cant be in the government? either god has a sense of humor, or history would have to be re-written if moses had an accident on the belt sander i honestly cant remember what the original topic of this thread is, i gotta scroll up, well, we're pretty much on topic, i helped a crippled fly on his feet, thats gotta be a few years off eternity in hell, so did u hear the one about the perfect being and the imperfect world, i guess he released a patch for it called hell, da boom tch its 6am and time for waffles [This message has been edited by CheeseStorm (edited August 02, 2005).] |
CapnStank Member Posts: 214 From: Sask, Canada Registered: 12-16-2004 |
Hahaha you should've learned by now. 99% of the posts are about the humor with a sprinkle of opinion and mabye a tiny bit of fact slipping in. You really gotta read our (mostly cheese's) posts with a stupid sence of humor to realize what we're getting at. I just blab and rant while cheese addresses points. Why don't we like links? Well I'll say that I don't like them because I'm not too involved in this extreamly informal debate/discussion to want to spend extra time reading sites which really won't have a useful impact on me. The same goes for me posting links, I understand that I'm too lazy to read yours, so why should I post mine and force you to read them? If I can't even read them, why would I go on google long enough to find something of use to post anyway? Now about the whole BONES things. Cheese is trying to get the point across that FISH SCAVANGING ALL DEM BONES is the closest thing to impossible you'll probably get in this conversation. Really look at it, every single bone which could've been used for evidence is gone? Convenient. Oh oh I want to post some pics too! ------------------ |
GUMP Member Posts: 1335 From: Melbourne, FL USA Registered: 11-09-2002 |
quote: Strawman argument++ |