Rithkil Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Registered: 05-10-2005 |
I've heard several different sides to the movie Kingdom of Heaven so I don't know if to see it or not. So what are your guys opinions on it? ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
I personally want to see it. Interested on how they'll treat the crusades. ------------------ |
goop2 Member Posts: 1059 From: Registered: 06-30-2004 |
never heard of it ------------------ I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :( |
fingolfin Member Posts: 197 From: IL Registered: 03-19-2005 |
I've heard it wasn't very acurate as to why the crusades were fought... ------------------ |
Rithkil Junior Member Posts: 6 From: Registered: 05-10-2005 |
That's what I heard Fingolfin. However I heard the overall movie was pretty good from some people too. Goop2, check out the site at http://www.kingdomofheavenmovie.com/ ------------------ |
fingolfin Member Posts: 197 From: IL Registered: 03-19-2005 |
yeah, the setting was accurate, and it still looks like a good action flick... ------------------ |
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
well the crusades are one of my historical areas of interest, and I've seen the movie, so I'll give ya all the run down.. I'm going to talk about the characters and plot etc, so if you don't want to know.. don't read... however there aren't any big plot twists or anything so
On the Muslim side: Saladin and two of his generals whose names I can't remember, but are fairly small roles. The movie focuses mainly on the counter-play between those on both sides who were fanatical, wanting to kill all infidels etc, and those who wanted to live in peace, and let the others live in peace as well. The movie does not really address at all the reason of why the crusades began but basicly deals with the question of the crusader states in the Holy Land (some 100 years old by the time the film takes place) living in peace with the muslims and vice versa. A strong theme in the movie as well is the ideal of knighthood protecting the down trodden and what not. Basicly the movie is a bash on extremism and teaches a message more of simply living rightly rather than worrying about doctrine or religion.
Baldwin maintained a series of truces with the Muslims both in the interests of peace but also in the interest of practicality of preserving his kingdom. The first crusade succeeded largely because the muslims were divided and fighting each other at the time. By this time, however, Saladin had come on the scene and forged the muslim states into an empire. He could easily field an army vastly larger than anything the crusaders could hope to put together. On the side of the crusaders there were a number of people that looked very dimly on Baldwin's policy of making truces with the muslims. The Templars for one were often opposed to truces with the muslims on religious grounds (though they themselves did occasionaly make such truces) The master of the Templar order at this time was Gerard de Ridefort and he was opposed to peace with the muslims. Eventually Saladin delivered an ultimatum to Baldwin IV (the leper) telling him to deal with Reynald and to pay reperations but Baldwin essantially was unable to do so, as a result Saladin went to war with Jerusalem (in 1182). Baldwin IV was dying as a result of his disease and so succession in the kingdom became a hot issue. Baldwin had an older sister, Sybil, who would be the most important factor in how the succession of the throne would be determined. Baldwin and Sybil's mother, Agnes, married Sybil to a knewly arrived crusader lord named Guy de Lusigan because Agnes was concerned that Raymond of Tripoli (tiberius in the movie) was gaining too much influence and wanted to counter him. Guy quickly began working with Reynald de chattilon and together they caused outrages against the muslims in despite of the King's policies. Sybil had been married before and had a infant sone named Baldwin. The council of lords of Jerusalem rightly recognised that Guy de lusigan was basicly a pretty boy idiot who didn't have sense enough to be allowed to do much of anything, so when Baldwin IV (the leper) died in 1186, they changed the rules of succession to stop the crown from going to sybil and instead gave it to her young son who became Baldwin V. Baldwin V however died within a year (he had always been sickly and in poor health). Having now no other option the council of lords allowed Sybil to come to throne but they forced her to annul her marriage to Guy first to prevent him from becoming king. (through this whole time Raymond of Tripoli and the Baron of Ibelin had supported Humphy de Toron and Isabella (half sister of Baldwin and Sybil) over guy.) Sybil agreed to annul her marriage to Guy on the condition that after taking the crown she could marry whoever she wished. This was agreed and Sybil took the crown then promptly remarried Guy (once again the pretty boy idiot gets the girl to the dismay of the Lords of Jerusalem. By this time Saladin was invading the kingdom and laid seige to Raymond's castle at Tiberius, with Raymond's wife inside. Raymond counciled the king not to go out to attack Saladin because he knew that it was basicly a trap and he also knew that he could simply ransom his wife back from Saladin should she be captured. Gerard of the templars reynald de chatillon both accused Raymond of being a coward and demanded that king Guy lead the army out to attack Saladin. The problem was lack of water.. the route to attack Saladin had no water supplies until an area arond a double hill known as "the Horns of Hattin". It was about a two day march just to get to the water supply. Raymond knew that this was exactly what Saladin wanted and was waiting for. Raynald and Gerard basicly goaded Guy into marching out to attack and the end result was an epic defeat that wiped out the entire army of Jerusalem. The defeat probably cost the lives of somewhere around 25,000 crusaders. Raymond of Tripoli (tiberias in the movie) was one of the few who escaped the battle (he had actually been friends with Saladin before). He did die later in the year however. Balian of Ibelin through all of this had been a friend and supporter of Raymond in his struggle He also escaped the battle of Hattin and fled back to Jeruslem where he together with the Queen Sybil and the Patriarch of Jerusalem defended the city against Saladin. Balian negotiated the surrender. In defending Jerusalem Balian had broken an oath he took to Saladin not to raise arms again (afer hattin) but Saladin apparently understood that Balian had little choice in the matter and again allowed him to leave in the safe passage with his family.
the movie basicly follows all that I said above... except for the following. Reynald de Chattilon and Guy de Lusigan are depicted as templars in the movie. In reality neither one of them were templars. Reynald did however ally himself with Gerard the master of the templars in supporting guy.. and supporting war. In the movie both Reynald and Guy are portrayed as senselessly violent, basicly desiring to start war and slay muslims for no particular reason. In reality they did violate the king's truce, but Reynald was all about doing it for money and power. They essentially took no thought for the good of the kingdom and thus brought war down on Jerusalem. It seems in the movie as if Reynald is kind of a composite of Reynald and Gerard (master of the templars). In the movie Sybil does not like Guy and she is a friend of Raymond and ibelin (and has a romance with Ibelin). In reality she stuck to Guy (apparently because he was handsome etc). She deliberately made him King against the wishes of the rest of the Lords and when she did not legaly have to, nor was there any practical reason to do so. Lastly, Balian of Ibelin didn't have a romance with Sybil, he infact had a wife and family of his own. He also was not, that I am aware, an illegitmate son. So all in all, the movie was fairly accurate in the overview. The disappointments in the movie is that they portray almost all religious people as fanatics and hypocrits. There are only a couple of positive religious figures in the movie. ------------------ |