God could make a copy of himself to make the job easier, but then he'd be breaking a commandment or something, and he'd have to fight himself in an epic battle that Ebert would describe as 'riveting'.

If souls probably aren't made of matter, and instead appear in the form of some kind of cool glowing energy blob, could they be of any size, and then heaven could fit in a matchbox, and yet if you were a soul inside it, you would think it was huge? I guess our whole universe could fit in the matchbox of a bigger universe.

Could God go back in time to witness himself creating himself? Then if he stayed in the 'past' with his past self, there would be two Gods, which breaks that whole 'only one God' thing.

Soooo... if God went back in time... would creation like fail... cause there'd be like, utter madness, with two Gods, and like the old God was obsessed with plagues and that whole flood thing, maybe the cool friendly one of modern times who doesn't give a flying fart would be like
"Dude chill out, if they sin, they go to Hell, it's a nasty system, but it works."
"Lmfao man, can't I just flood them a wee bit, then we can piss off the Devil, because first he'll get TONS of souls and then no more, cause everyone will be scared straight."
"Dude, I tried that, they're still messed up, and Lucifer isn't pissed."
"Why, have you talked to him lately?"
"Saw him round at the Starbucks the other day, seemed quite content with himself, if you ask me."
"Lmfao, sorry to change the subject, but look at that little atheist on that internet forum, I think I'll smite him in the middle of his next sentence."

These are just some of

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

and for the other presupersitions and interesting ideas.
First though God is everywhere inside the universe, he exists outside the universe, and that includes outside time.. science clearly shows that time is a physical dimention, one that is relative, affected by such things as velocity and gravity. God cannot be contained inside his own creation, He exists outside of the space time continium, and was there before creation (getting a human mind around this is mind boggling, since we can't comprehend things before beginning , especially when before that time as we know it didn't exist.

so here is a question, one that i don't know if the bible answers specifically, but i have my own theory of it, and there is MUCH in the bible that points in the direction of this logic: when is God right now? Is he follow along right now in 2004? or could he possibly be interacting with all time 2004, 2004 bc or whatever all at the same time? since He exists outside of time? i think that is the case, and it ties in well also with the predetermination and free will paradoxes as well. If God was stuck in 2004 the same as the rest of us, then he would be inside the universe soley and restricted by it, also restricted by gravity and speed,so he's definately outside of time.
as well as jesus dying once for all time, sins past present and future. When you delve into physics, quantum theory and lots of things its amazing that it backs up a biblical worldview more than anything (unless of course you come prebrainwashed with evolution and have to try to mold every hypothesis and theory and explain any observation in its terms)

its hard to get out head around more physical dimentions than the 3 we normally observe with our senses (and time which we are bound in on a one way train)
but its easier if we reduce it to 3d/2d etc..
lets say that the 3rd dimention is time (so a 2d plane , and along its way are marking like a ruler, but instead of inches, it has hours.. and then there is 2d YOU in a 2d car, and you are cruising along this dimention called time, you can't go back, nor stop, just go along at the same speed (*give or take effects of relativity )however an observer who can see the whole 3d world can see all points on the ruler.. or lets say the rule of time showed the light spectrum , a nice rainbox of colors, each of those color shades a different day, well in the 2d world somebody moving through it at once can only see and interact wit hthe colour of the moment, but a 3d observer can see the whole thing.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

quote:

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As the population goes up, there won't be enough guardian angels to go around, seeing as half (or probably much less than half) of the souls make it to heaven, and even fewer would sign up for the less than desirable task of guard duty.

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The idea that people become angels is a popular misconception, and shows me how little you really know about Christianity, despite your pretending otherwise . . .

I'd say you really don't know enough about Christianity to make any good judgements about it. If you're going to be discussing Christianity here, we expect you to know what it's all about.

A good place to start learning what we really believe is the Bible.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

As amazing as all that is it still doesn't add up to predestination (in the strictest sense). Knowing what someone will do, is not the same as making them do it. You could say it is deterministic in the sense that the future is already set.. in a way your lif is already lived, your deeds already done.. and they can not be changed.. however, that does not mean that you did not do them, or choose them.
then take another step back and realize that all our concepts of determination and predestination that we just talked about are themselves bound within the concept of time.. and outside of time may well have no significant meaning.

As much as I like wandering through that maze for the fun of it, in practical terms, we are creatures of time.. we were created to exist within time, and from what I see in scripture I think it is likely we will always exist within time. its fun, though, to conceive of "outside of time" and I believe that any pursuit of knowledge about God and seeking God is profitable, and I think when we sit around and talk about God like this, He enjoys it.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

I'm actually kinda amused that people would argue against that, considering it's so full of suppositions. both religious ones, concerning christianity, and scientific ones, concerning the nature of time.

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Soterion Studios

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

quote:

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Originally posted by simon_templar:
Knowing what someone will do, is not the same as making them do it.

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i had the hardest time explaining this to my mom, and she still don't get it. i told her i believed in predestination, that is God knows what we're doing before we do it, He knows whether or not we're going to make it to heaven, or whether we're going to go to hell. but she kept saying God wouldn't make people just to send them to hell. He wouldn't, but He makes us, gives us the choice, and He knows what we're going to do, and uses the choice whether right or wrong for His purpose. like judas, God used him for His purpose, but i also believe judas had the chance to do right but he chose to betray Christ, and God already knew he would. do y'all get what i'm saying here?

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

[This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited December 16, 2004).]

quote:

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Romans 8:29  ¶For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.
30  Moreover whom he did predestinate, them he also called: and whom he called, them he also justified: and whom he justified, them he also glorified.

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That is being predestined to be comformed to the image of Christ. I think that foreknowledge and predestination are two entirely different things. What I get from the scripture above is that God predestines all of those that He foreknew to be comformed to the image of Christ. We have the choice whether we're in Christ or not.

As for the angel thing. I think it's to bad what western culture has done to the view of angels. It's not even close to being Biblical, basically the thought of angels is like a fairy tale (like Santa Clause) to the average secular mind... And a funny thing is that they try to make angels out to be little babies or mothering women, when in fact they are amazingly powerful and awesome, fierce and noble warriors, and protectors of God's people. But look at how they portray demons, they make them out to be strong and vicious. I'd say that this hasn't happend by mistake, it sounds like a clever tactic to me.

It's clear from scripture that there are an inumerable amount of angels, "myriads times myriads" of angels, in english we'd use the word googolplex, so there are googolplexes times googolplexes of angels. Which would mean there are also googolplexes of demons...

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If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited December 16, 2004).]

After the trial, you will either be in Heaven, Hell, or Purgatory (It's like the mental institution that you would go to after pleading insanity in a mortal courtroom). In Hell, you are trapped in a small cell with no windows or doors, obviously, and you must scratch at the walls for all eternity. To keep you busy and desperate, carnivorous fire ants slowly seep in through the wall, searching out your tender eyeballs. There are other punishments, obviously (some less intense, others worse), but that's the only one I've had the pleasure of experiencing. A word to the wise - destroying the ants' eggs seems to enrage them, but strangely enough they will temporarily retreat before returning, once their moods are better.

Ah, Purgatory. It is like a long, boring day at school. During my rather lengthy stay, I realized that all the magazines were the same, but they had nice colorful pictures, so I guess it was alright, but not like, entertaining. There was a surprisingly small number of people there, and they all talked very slowly. I felt kind of numb the whole time, like I'd just woken from a nap or something.

Now Heaven is the ticket! Upon my arrival, I was quickly garbed with golden robes and a crown, and sent to a huuuuge hotel, where all the good souls lived. The room service was exceptional, and the waterslides were undoubtedly the best I've ever come across. One evening (yes, there is time there) I was watching a do-it-yourself television show about grooming one's wings, when several angels entered my room, followed by the big man himself. God encouraged me to join the Seraphim Strike Squadron, a battalion of the most fearsome and loyal angels ever to exist. I eagerly accepted, and the next morning we battled demons until lunch time. As I was digging into me Louisiana Chicken Sub (the only food in Heaven), a huge figure loomed over me, and I realized that it was the Alter-God who had struck me down while I had sat typing on a certain forum only days ago as I had lived. There was a most unpleasant smirk upon his beard, and he laughed at what must have been a rather pissed-off expression on my face. After a brief skirmish, wherein I failed to land a blow with my Divine Blade (think of it as a sort of glowing katana, with a nice comfy handle), but certainly kept him on his toes, we cooled down.

Anyway, it was obvious that we weren't gonna get along very well, so he sent me back here, and the bus driver was quite relieved when I rose to my feet. A man yelled at me for holding up traffic with my dead body, and he flipped me off when I didn't respond, so I told him to keep his mouth and eyes shut when the ants came for him, but he simply screamed a few unintelligible insults and drove off. I don't think he took my message to heart.

I apologize for the long post, but I felt it was necessary for the edification of this forum.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

Pergatory is where dead babys go if they aint sprinkled with water. Sprinkling came when some queen didnt want to get her hair wet. After that, all catholics did sprinkling, and at some point they figured that to go to heaven you needed to be baptised (dont ask me, I have no clue) After that they realized that made it so babys didnt go to heaven because they werent getting baptised, so they made pergatory.

If Im wrong tell me. Im not the best at these things. I only know this cause my dad used to be catholic. He told me about these places, but I always get them mixed up.

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

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Vita sine Ieso est mors.
Life without Jesus is death.

quote:

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Originally posted by CheeseStorm:
Le no.

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--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

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I dont like siggys. They are to hard to think up :(

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=jebus