Klown Member Posts: 78 From: baraga, mi , united states of america Registered: 11-10-2004 |
Okies. Now that all the hoopla over the elections and all the proposals are being worked out and going to become state laws. I'd like to read y'alls oppinions on the Wedding Amendment that passed in every state that had it on it's ballot. Me personally. I dont like the amendment. I see nothing wrong with a gay couple marrying. They're not hurting me or bothering me in any way. ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
well, a couple years ago California voted down gay marriage. ------------------ |
goop2 Member Posts: 1059 From: Registered: 06-30-2004 |
Does this mean its finaly being stopped? Why didnt they do this when it all started?? ------------------ I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together. |
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Nomad Member Posts: 63 From: Registered: 06-29-2004 |
As for arguments that "it doesn't hurt me"... A lot of things don't hurt me. Children starving in Africa. Political corruption. All that stuff. Does that make it right? There can be arguing until faces turn blue over this, but the Bible indicates that God made marriage for one man and one woman. If society wants to turn away from this, see examples like Sodom and Gomorrah for the consequences of extreme cases. As for "what's done in the privacy of the home" arguments (surely inevitable), God obviously sees all. Beyond that, "non-traditional" marriage arrangements can only hurt the participants, whether they ever realize it or not. Consider, if you will, the idea of "gateway drugs", where doing one drug leads to more and more dangerous drugs. So it often is with sin/depravity - giving into one particular level of sin often leads to others. Looking at Sodom and Gomorrah, people went from "consenting" situations to seeking outright assault. As always, seek the Lord and His peace. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
those judges didn't care too much about the will of the people. they gone around doing there own thing. claims that the law is "discriminating;" besides the fact it applies to all. anyhow. Why I'm against Gay Marriage. ------------------ |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
They always have the possibility to have a civil union. IMHO, marriage is a church-created tradition, and the state should stay out of it. ------------------ Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
same sex marriage aka civil unions (but with a few other bills making it very similar to 'marriage' ) is being rushed in in my own country (New Zealand), but the interesting thing is hwo the media (and even the prime minister (who herself is lesbian) talks about christians and those who oppose it, they label us completely as fundamentalist weirdos,and that our ideas are dangerous.. http://www.maxim.org.nz/main_pages/current_page/ri.php?issue=138#138.1
in the last 4 or 5 years in this country, i've seen a HUGE change in it, evil getting more entrenched. My town has one of the highest rates of suicide in the world, as does this region have one of the highest rates of abortions, where abortion rate is higher than the birth rate. before hard drugs were not readily availible (because of our strict border control), but in the last few years the drug P has been introduced (and can be made locally, and is made locally by the gangs - which have more members than there are police by far, and we have lowest per capita of police in the developed world), P is crazy, and everywhere in the under 25 age group, sadly so many pregnant women taking, what is P, it is Pure methanphetamine, (speed is about 5 to 10% methanphetamine).. ------------------ |
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Klown Member Posts: 78 From: baraga, mi , united states of america Registered: 11-10-2004 |
This came out of a local paper ... taking the names out. This is not my paper yet I agree with what is being said. A comment made by Pastor Bruce Cargile stated, "More people would choose to be homosexual ..." We feel that homosexuality is not a choice. Why would someone choose a lifestyle that is not widely accepted throughout the nation? Discrimination, as defined in the American Heritage Dictionary, is to make a clear distinction; differentiate or to act on the basis of prejudice. How is saying who can or cannot get married, based on sexual orientation, not discrimination? We, adults in the younger generation, were raised to fight for equal rights, not to prevent them. For many Americans, the ban on homosexual marriage will keep the bond of marriage between a man and a woman sacred. When has the bond of marriage ever been sacred? The divorce rate between men and women in America is approximately 42 percent. That means almost half of all legal marriages end in divorce. What about the many husbands and wives who commit adultery? What about morals, loyalty and commitment to your partner? We have always been taught that love is the most important building block to a healthy, sacred marriage. We believe that as long as you love someone unconditionally and want to be with that person "until death do you part," you have every right to marriage. Sexuality, race, ethnicity and religion, none of these factors should ever prevent someone from their equal rights. We did not write this letter to criticize those who voted for Proposal 2. We wrote this to give ourselves peace of mind because we were able to get our opinion out to the people in the community. We realize that this may forever be a battle with no victory because no one will ever see eye to eye. "Everybody's journey is individual. If you fall in love with a boy, you fall in love with a boy. The fact that many Americans consider it a disease says more about them than it does about homosexuality." - James Baldwin ------------------ |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
that worldview of that article shows clearly a worldview influenced mostly by humanist society, and not having ones mind transformed and renewed by Christ. there is a good point though, about divorce, divorce inside the church, mostly out of selfish reasons between immature people who walk after their own flesh, lusts and understanding, and not committed to following Christ and loving their spouses like Chirst loves, that does more damage to soceity than 'homosexual marriage'. the problem of homosexual marriage is more as the result of a greater cancer on society of a whole, and historically indictive of the last stage in a societies decay and fall. also homosexual realtionship has nothing to do with true love, maybe to with all the feelings, but true love would love the person enough not to be involved in a homosexual relationship with them, which is harmful to the soul of both of the parties. as for choice, people do have choices, sure people can be born with a tendecy towards homosexuality - but most of it, documentated situations in peoples lives are a huge factor such as an absent father, or dominating mother, however a curse of it can be passed down from sins of parents, grandparents yada yada, but Jesus can set people free. People may be born with a tendency towards homosexuality, of course, we are ALL born with a sinful nature, and some of us have genetic or whatnot tendecies towards different sins (and in general women and men have tendencies toward different sins than each other, yet we each get ensnared in our respective sins), but somebody born with a tendency towards loosing their temper doesn't excuse them being violent and killing people? (or is it OK just because they were BORN that way?), or somebody born with an incredible sex drive, does that give them an excuse to rape somebody? because they were born that way? a question? can you be a christian? yet claim homosexuality is not a sin? and willingful practice it? klown, on a seperate note, in a couple of threads, i've written posts completely FOR you ones that touch on heart issues, which you seem to have ignored, have you just missed them or are actually ignoring them? ------------------ [This message has been edited by klumsy (edited November 29, 2004).] |
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Klown Member Posts: 78 From: baraga, mi , united states of america Registered: 11-10-2004 |
Am I ignoring any post's. No. The war topic as with Abortion. I've stated my views and why I feel that way. I'm very pationate about alot of things and I may be bullheaded in my views. Yet I know that some of my views arent welcome or even mainstream. I'm also not a very open person. It takes alot for me to open up and go into my past unless I absolutly have to (like i did in a couple of posts here, specially when I was personally attacked by goop2). As I've said, Is war wrong? Yes it is, yet I also know that we will never be with out war. Some wars just have to be fought and started. I know that. Abortion, I've beaten that dead horse long enough. My views may not go along anyone here or many people at all. Yet I know alot of christians who agree with me on the 4 points and questions i've asked. Abortion is wrong yet as I've said there are times when abortion may be good. Yet I know I'll be told different and even judged by them, as I have been here. Now as with this Marriage amendment. I dont agree with it and I feel that if any two people want to get married and love eachother enough to make that plunge. So be it. Let them. I also believe that being a homosexual isnt a choice. It's how they was borne. Their soul and essence is just in the wrong body and yet they're going by how they feel and work. Will I judge them or discriminate against them. NO, because as I've said, they was borne like that and no matter how much people may not like it. That's just the way they are and how they was created. Now on to feminism. I just feel there is to much testosterone (sp .. sorry, rushing this so i'm not late for work) flowing and as an aunti said when I showed her that thread, Male chauvanism at it's best. We have to learn to take of the blinders and not just black or white. Butt he whole box and all the grey areas. Use the brain between your ears and actually put away how one feels and sit and think things out from all points of view. ------------------ |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
in my post - in the abortion thread etc, as even in the war thread (for i also agree war is wrong but..) i am not so much interested in the arguements and points (even with homosexuality, it is definately a sin, the bible says so clearly, but so is all sexual sin, and all sin, and we are all sinners, equally in need of God's grace and forgiveness, and homophobia (true homophobia) has no place in the church (though christian love in confronting the sin is often called homophobia when its not), for example if you love somebody - say your best friend, and they are HIV positive, but you know the cure for aids, and actually have it, you'd passionately share that cure with them, even if you get ridiculed or whatever. Christians need to LOVE homosexuals, because GoD's loves them, we need to deal with any feelings of 'uncomfortability' and such, however we cannot tolerate the practice of it within the church, or the acceptibility of it (that it is ok, and its not a sin etc)) but anyway what i am saying, is these arguments, sides points etc are not are what are interesting me in the posts, but rather the avenues of God healing your hurting and broken heart, making you whole, and growing you in in Christ into the person God created you to be. Karl ------------------ |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: no, not really. show me the gay gene. and if it was... it's a gene that needs to go, because it provides no advantage to biology. even gay activists will admit it, the most logical and rational explanation is that it develops in childhood. ------------------ |
Brandon Member Posts: 594 From: Kansas City, Mo, USA Registered: 02-02-2004 |
I don't believe that people are born gay. But even if they were, then just cause something comes natural doesn't mean that it's good. We could say the same thing about obesity. Yes obesity comes natural for some people, but it's not good. But anyway, people can decide to change, so it is a choice. I've seen many people who have been set free by Jesus Christ. Habits are hard to break, especialy when the person keeps thier eyes on the problem. Or worse, when they don't even acknowledge that they have a problem. And to stay on topic, I am for the amendment. I believe that marriage is to be between one man and one woman. Even if homosexuality doesn't affect me personally, it is a sin, it is rebellion against God. ------------------ |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
quote: I agree with one, maybe two of those. And the horse is only dead because you don't like to talk about it - we're still covering new material there. But save that for the abortion thread.
quote: First things first: Souls don't have gender - bodies do. I lean towards the dualist view - that humans have a physical body and a non-physical soul. Second of all, we must distinguish between homosexual tendencies bought on by factors such as genetics, and actually participating in homosexual behavior. Homosexual tendencies I can understand, yes. But having homosexual tendencies does not make participating in homosexual behavior to be desireable. In the animal world, homosexual behavior is usually quickly weeded out, as animals that do not participate in heterosexual behavior will not produce offspring. As far as marriage goes, IMHO that should stay in the church. If you force the hand of the churches, I'm afraid that will probably result in a bitter battle between state and church, and many pastors being punished for refusing to do the marriage - something I'd rather not see. I'd rather the couple be able to choose a different church, or go with a civil union. As far as rights go, I'm all for equal rights, it's just that I see marriage as a church tradition, ordained by God to help raise a family. I do not see marriage as a right. I do, however, believe that most workplaces should be blind to sexual orientation. ------------------ Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here |
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d000hg Member Posts: 144 From: Durham, UK Registered: 07-27-2004 |
There is no 'gay gene' but that doesn't mean it's not genetic. Last I heard scientists were sure sexuality was at least partly influenced by your genes (though it's harder to get a good sample of a gay person's family tree...). But having a propensity to violent behaviour can also be brought about by body chemistry which brings it down to biology there too. Whih doesn't make it right, but something people have to live with. Many would claim these as fallout from orginal sin, no? On gay marriage - the church I believe shouldn't allow this and should tell people why. However there ARE other religions; while they are false they still have legal rights. So you can't just tell the government to force other religions to act in line with us - that's state oppression of religious freedom. BTW don't Islam and Judaism also condemn homosexual behaviour as sinful? |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
by the government not allowing gay marriage isn't telling other religions to bend to it's definitions, it's merely saying that it won't give gay marriages. any gay couple can go to some liberal church or some drugged out hippy and "get married," so to speak. they just want tax benefits. ------------------ |
Simon_Templar Member Posts: 330 From: Eau Claire, WI USA Registered: 10-25-2004 |
I don't agree with "legalized gay marriage" for several reasons. There are obviously the moral issues from scripture, as a christian etc. Those have been covered very amply so I won't go into them. First, marriage is a religious institution first and formost. I pretty much every culture marriage has been a tradition and ritual with religious overtones much more than it has been simply a political institution. This is easily demonstable simply from examining the rituals surrounding marriage, and the fact that marriage in every culture predates the current political institutions (or pretty much any of the historical political institutions as well). Thus for government to legalize gay marriage is, in my opinion, government directly interfering in religion. This is even more true in the "christian" west as marriage is a sacrement of the church. Secondly, the reason marriage is recognized by the state (and has always been recognised by states/political bodies, is it is entirely essential to society. The union of a man and woman to produce offspring in a family unit is the core of all human society and no society ever has been, or can survive without it. A union of a man and a man, or a woman and a woman is not essential to society, it has no benefits to society and thus there is no reason it should be recognised by the state as a legal entity. Society has to protect heterosexual union and the family produced from it in order for society to survive and function. Homosexual unions on the other hand produce no tangible benefit that society needs. This is born up by history as well. No society has ever legaly recognized homosexual unions, EVEN societies that glorified homosexual relationships, never legaly recognised them as marriages. The clearest example of this are the ancient greek city states. Particularly in Sparta. There was nearly a 100% homosexual population and yet homosexual marriage was never legaly recognized. In fact, quite the opposite, heterosexual marriage had to be legaly mandated by the state as a civic duty encumbant upon all adult males. The reason for this is that, while it offers no benefits to society, homosexual unions, particularly promoting them, can harm society.
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