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Feminism – warsong




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Feminism
Many say it is good many say it is not good. In the end it did more bad than good in many ways that people can not imagin.
GUMP

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Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
The people and women who started the feminist movement were (a lot of them are dead of old age now) horrified at what it has become. The feminist movement of the early 1900's is not the same as the feminist movement today.
bennythebear

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From: kentucky,usa
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women trying to do what GOD made men to do...very bad thing. men trying to do what GOD made women to do...also very bad.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

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ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
feminism now is women trying to be like men. BAD THING! horribly bad thing. girly women rock!

men and women are equal, but not the same.
feminism back in the day: equal.
feminism now: same.

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Max

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Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
I think people should just be what they are. I am a guy - so I'll act like a guy. I'm not gonna try to be something I'm not, and neither should women. I think if you wanna be a stay at home chick, than do it. If you wanna be a business women and deal with that stuff, go for it. Whatever God is leading you for.
God Bless,
Max

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goop2

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Those women think they are over men. Very very very bad thing.

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ArchAngel

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From: SV, CA, USA
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lot of those women think they are men. worse.

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goop2

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lol... They cant do what men can do! oh, sorry, there are girls here

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

Brandon

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From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
I think that God formed woman from man's side because she doesn't belong at his feet, and she doesn't belong over his head, but she belongs at his side. What a pretty picture :')

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Max

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From: IA
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Wow, great way to put it Brandon! What is your guys' opinion on the whole, transgender or changing gender thing? There were people at my school who literally, changed their gender. Kinda creepy if you ask me, it doesn't seem natural. On the other hand there are cases where they are supposed to be one or the other and chemical imbalances cause them the be one thing and think/act like another.
Max

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ArchAngel

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From: SV, CA, USA
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yeah, one of my classes is talking about that. and third genders.
there "reasons" saying that this person should have been a girl or boy or whatever was really not substantial.
they don't like my "old skool" views. ha. I'm always running against the grain in that class. love it.

yes, brandon.. that's an awesome picture.
I also remember a part where they pointed out that the rib was close to the man's heart.
who here agrees with the view that men are our women's protectors?

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goop2

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I dont think its creepy, just sick. I dont remember the rib being close to his heart though.

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

Klumsy

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From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
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i personally was in a church cell group , where one of the new christians, a guy who had had a sex change into a 'girl' in the past. It was a very position experience (being in the small group, not his getting a sex change), to see the issues he now faced in identify, finding his worth and identity in Christ alone, and having to rediscover his masculinity (without the appropriate attached peices), there were people that held him accountible , so that he would have people to support him if he had tempations to go back to his old lifestyle etc.

it really challenged me, for it is very easy to label all these people are freaks, and be uncofortable, and actually hate homosexuals at the like (as we turn a blind eye to our own peers fornication or whatsoever), God worked in my heart challenging me, that could i accept this guy and God does, getting off my 'better than thou' judgemental platform and humbling knowledging that my sin is as foul to God as this guys, but also that God's grace and forgiveness for me , can cover up his sins, and santcify him just as much as it does me and my sins.

it was only when i learned to love this brother in Christ, as i should , with the Love of Christ, with grace and mercy, and friendship that i had any legimacy to speak into his life into say regards as to whether he should now live as a man or woman (since the deed was already done etc),and such things that confused him etc (which in our minds we'd all think is a very easy answer- of course, God created you as a guy, you are a guy), and that is true, but i discovered that unless we choose to live and love like Christ does with a firmness, conviction, yet great grace and mercy, any interlectual truth, given in judgement, or just amusement hinders the gospel , i suppose that is why the bible says to 'speak the truth in love', but its so easy to fool ourselves that we do that sometimes, when really the Love of Christ isn't in it, and we just want to correct them or are frustrated, or maybe we do want to help them, but all we are willing to offer is some quick words, not a commitment of loving them like Christ would, of choosing to spend the time to actually pray for them, ask God for wisdom and the right words, of sacrificing and showing that we care for them more than just as an object to correct.
(b.t.w this isn't a rant against anybody). just sharing an experience.

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Klown

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From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
Quote, "They cant do what men can do!"

Men cant do half if not all what a woman can do. If it wasnt for the Female's man kind wouldnt have gone far eh?

So what I've got out of this thread Feminism is bad. All women should stay home, raise the kids and keep the house.

*shakes head*

So women's right to vote is wrong? Right to hold equal jobs and equal pay is wrong? The woman's right be an idividual and be equal to their counter part the males is wrong?

I'm sorry but every thing i've read here makes me wonder. A lot of closed minded response's here. Even if it was joking, it's still wrong. The female speceis is equal if not better then the male species. The male counter part has done more wrongs and evil's then the female counter part.

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
HAHAHAHAHAHAH! I love this arrogant stereotypical behavior. it's so awesome! it's funny.
do yourself a favor, shut up and try understanding what we're saying.

we've said nothing about restricting rights. we never brought up voting, equal jobs, pay or anything.
we weren't talking about forcing anything on anybody.
where did you get any of that? lose the stereotypes. they don't look good on you.

and what kind of point are you making with:

quote:
Men cant do half if not all what a woman can do

so what if a guy can't get preganant? so what if women have better homeostatis than men do?
and granted, a shortage in women is worse than a shortage of men. and yes, men are more expendable. why do you think it's better for men to go to war than women? we're more simple(rugged) and expendable. one man can keep the human race going, becuase he can impregnate many women, and one woman cannot do the same.
besides, men's upperbody strength is greater. and we don't have periods.

quote:
The female speceis is equal if not better then the male species

we're one fricken species. geez. we live in coexistence, not in competition. where are you from?

quote:
The male counter part has done more wrongs and evil's then the female counter part.

equality at it's best. care to give a reason? no, correlations aren't reasons.

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CobraA1

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quote:
I think that God formed woman from man's side because she doesn't belong at his feet, and she doesn't belong over his head, but she belongs at his side. What a pretty picture :')

Ditto. We should coexist - we are, afer all, "one fricken species" as ArchAngel so eloquently put it .

I agree with equal treatment under the law. But I'm very wary that in your attempt to equalize, Klown, that you may have slipped too far - when you say "The female speceis is equal if not better then the male species."

I'm sorry, I do not like discrimination, be it forward or reverse. That's why I - and probably the other members of this board - are so wary of some of the junk that hs come out of the feminist movement - sometimes they go too far, and say that women are better than men. As far as t law is concerned, IMHO, we should be equal.

All that being said, we must not forget that all people are individuls, and have differences. We must be treated equally, but we must not be forced to be equal. There is a short story I've read about where people were forced to be equal - the intelligent were given devices to distract their attention, the beautiful were given masks to hide their beauty, and so on and so forth.

Therefore, people must not be forced to be equal, but they should be treated equally. And in the eyes of the law, people should be treated equally, but their individuality should not be stifled.

And we should love all people, and treat everybody with respect.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
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Klown

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Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
What has come out of the feminist Movement that is so wrong?

The feminist movement gave women the right to vote. The right for fair pay and treatment in the work place. which still isnt where it should be!

I see nothing wrong with what the feminist movement has done.

You havent shown me ONE bad point of the feminist movement.

ArchAngel = feminism now is women trying to be like men.
holding jobs and earning the same pay, being nurse's doctors or in the military. Is that trying to be like a man? Or are you talking about them shaving their heads and being an individual?

goop2 = lol... They cant do what men can do! oh, sorry, there are girls here
Sorry, Women can do just as much as men, if not a lil more.

Back to ArchAngel. Where am I putting any "stereotypes"? I'm just going by what i'm reading here. Not hard to see where i'm coming from if you're reading the same post's. Yes there are a few here who said correctly. Women and Men are equal and should be. Yet they're not sadly. Women are still being held and judged as a lesser.

CobraA1

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Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Perhaps you should read me for a change. It's when they create inequality and they go too far when we have problems, it's not when they create equality.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

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goop2

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Posts: 1059
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Ya, they can do what a guy can do... With a sex change! LOL!

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HanClinto

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Hey Klown -- glad to see you're still posting!

quote:
Originally posted by Klown:
goop2 = lol... They cant do what men can do! oh, sorry, there are girls here
Sorry, Women can do just as much as men, if not a lil more.


I realize that Goop2's post was sarcastic in poor taste -- I'm not going to argue that. I'm curious to know exactly what you mean by "women can do just as much as men, if not a lil more". I've never met a mother who could be a good father. I've never met a father who could be a good mother. Have you ever noticed how Mother's day is so much more honored in the US than Father's day is? Of course people appreciate their mothers -- they fill a role that the fathers just can't do. That's an area that men aren't meant to fill.

One problem with the ideals of the current hardcore-feminist (VERY different from classical feminism -- which isn't a bad thing) movement is that they preach that women are above men -- women can do anything that men can do, and they can do it better, and they can even do more things. They don't see why men are necessary other than for their sperm. It's the same problem as male chauvenism, just in the other direction.

quote:
Yes there are a few here who said correctly. Women and Men are equal and should be. Yet they're not sadly. Women are still being held and judged as a lesser.

Often, this is true. From your other posts on war, I trust that you know how women are treated in Islamic culture (though I don't know if you know any women personally from there -- a good friend of mine is from Saudi Arabia and his mother has had a hard time over there as she was born in the states and wasn't used to such things). I'm glad that you say that there are a few here who said correctly, however I think you might have misinterpreted what they said.

One shouldn't say that men and women are equal. Men are definately not equal with women -- otherwise we wouldn't have a distinction between men and women at all -- we'd just be genderless people. If this is the issue you want to discuss, we can continue along that line.

What I would say is that men and women are on an *equal level*. Men are not above women, and women are not above men. We're complementary, we compensate for each other's shortcomings, and we do things differently. It's not a mistake that women are better mothers than men are -- that's the way it's designed, and it's a beautiful thing.

I love my wife very much, and I don't consider her below me. It is an honor to be blessed with her, and I don't take my duty as her protector and provider lightly. However, just because I am responsible for her wellbeing does not mean that I am above her in any way.

I hope this helps you see what I (and several others here) are saying.

Respectfully,
clint

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ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
holding jobs and earning the same pay, being nurse's doctors or in the military. Is that trying to be like a man? Or are you talking about them shaving their heads and being an individual?

not being an individual. hey, if they want to shave their head to be an different, fine, but move in the direction of a man, out of the possible choices out there.

quote:
Where am I putting any "stereotypes"? I'm just going by what i'm reading here. Not hard to see where i'm coming from if you're reading the same post's. Yes there are a few here who said correctly. Women and Men are equal and should be. Yet they're not sadly. Women are still being held and judged as a lesser.


if that's true, tell me where we said women shouldn't vote, women shouldn't be treated equal in the work place, or women are beneath men?
I don't know what posts your reading, but it's not the ones we wrote.

quote:
goop2 = lol... They cant do what men can do! oh, sorry, there are girls here
Sorry, Women can do just as much as men, if not a lil more.


k, let me correct both of you. physically speaking, women cannot develop muscles as much as men without use of steriods and stuff. testerone is needed for large bulky muscles. in short, men are generally stronger than women. in addition, we're built with a larger upperbody frame. this might be politically incorrect, but it's scientifically accurate.
however, this is not to say that women can't do what men can do. well, okay. women cannot impregnate somebody. but, women are in a way capable of a wider variety of tasks. like pregancy, breast feeding, etc.
women are also more emotionally developed, etc. their brains also have more neurons between the two hemispheres.
basically, women and men are different, not better than eachother.

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bennythebear

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Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
women are the weaker vessel, but God also said we should honor them as the weaker vessel. i'm not the type to be like "women should shut thier mouth and know their place!". i just believe it like the bible says it. women shouldn't have authority over a man, that would be like the church(the bride) having authority over Jesus(the bridegroom). i believe they should be able to vote, they should be able to speak, and they should be able to make decisions for themselves. if my post doesn't seem to make any sense, let me know, and i'll go through and look up the scriptures and go into more detail.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

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Like I said the feminist movement did more bad. Studies have shown this time and time again. Feminist assault reason in many ways
Women have been used more than before in negative ways. Schools have catered to how women learn which is why you have a decline in males scores not doing well which I had a link for it but the article is long anyway.

Feminist lie to get statistical results like this one "85 percent of employed women are sexually harassed, the feminists have defined it so broadly that it is trivialized to include behavior that is merely annoying."

About equal pay LOL
"The longtime feminist goal called "comparable worth" is a major goal of this President's Interagency Council. The feminists think it's unfair that jobs held mostly by men, such as plumber and prison guard, have higher pay than clerical jobs held mostly by women. The feminists allege that paper credentials are "worth" more than unpleasant or dangerous working conditions. Although nobody is stopping more women from becoming plumbers and prison guards, the feminists say "pay equity" requires freezing the wages of male-dominated jobs in order to increase the wages of the jobs women prefer."

"jokes are not allowed because feminists have no sense of humor. Nearly 400 colleges and universities have these anti-First Amendment speech regulations" lol

"all heterosexual sex should be considered rape unless an affirmative, sober, explicit verbal consent can be proved." lol

"The feminists' longtime, self-proclaimed goal is an androgynous society"
This goes on and on what twisted feminists want.

Here is a book from well educated independent women that says that the feminist movement is wrong.
"The feminist goal is not fair treatment for women, but the redistribution of power from the "dominant" class (the male patriarchal system) to the "subordinate" class (nominally women, but actually only the feminists who know how to play by rules they have invented)."
Read the link which is shocking what the feminist nuts
http://www.eagleforum.org/psr/1996/dec96/psrdec96.html

Check out her books, and then you will say feministís nuts lol.
http://www.eagleforum.org/order/book/index.html#feminist

A few books are: Feminist Fantasies, Who Will Rock the Cradle?, Equal Pay for UNequal Work, Pornography's Victims

"Phyllis Schlafly confronts the left-wing assaults on women and families with arguments built from logic, statistics, and wit."

"Schlafly's latest book, Feminist Fantasies, provides an excellent resource for understanding the feminist agenda. She doesn't concern herself with the philosophy so much as the practical applications, particularly the policies that govern the lives of every American."

"Mrs. Schlafly's recurring focus in this book is the contribution of the left-leaning media to feminist causes during the past 40 years." The left are blind

"In fact, her significance goes far beyond the conservative movement to American politics generally, where it must be said she is one of the two or three most consequential women in American history."

After all she did stop the "Equal Rights Amendment"

Spare me the BS. More women first against the womenís movement than men it seems, since if a man talks in public he would be categorized as discriminating. Saying the truth should be said and liberal men should have balls and not have a chain around their neck while a woman dominates him with a whip.

goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I was going to post this 2 days ago, I think now is a good time to post it though. My mom has said many times that woman should NOT be treated equal with men because they ARENT equal. I hope this helps a little.

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Things that are bad that have come out of Feminism

well, first off, feminism has attacked the very foundation of society on a few points, and done its best to destroy it.

the most fundamental foundation of society is the family unit. Feminism since the 60's and 70's has repeatedly attacked the very concept of family, going so far as to equate marriage and children with slavery. It has also degraded and derided women who stay at home and raise their kids. If you doubt that, I have 4 sisters and 3 sisters in law you can talk to.

another aspect of this is that the differences between men and women really are essential to society. The different capabilities we both posess and the different roles we were meant to fulfill. Feminism has done everything in its power to destroy the idea that there is any difference at all between men and women, and certainly to destroy the idea of men's and women's roles. This has created a situation in which both men and women are beginning to loose their sense of identity. It has also created rediculous situations in which both men and women are doing jobs they are not well suited to, or even incapable of, and they have tob e allowed to fail at them because to say they can't do it is politicaly incorrect and thus forbidden.

An extension of both of these is the inclusion of women in the military.. which many people argue isn't a big deal. However, it is going to become a big deal before long. As I already pointed out, the family unit is central to society, and particularly the women's roles in that family unit. The truth is they are probably more essential than the men's (which is not to say the men's are unimportant). However, the great problem women in the military creates is that our constitution requires equal application of the law, which means that if there is a draft, or something of that nature, and women are allowed in combat roles, women would, legaly, have to be drafted just like men. In fact, some of the feminist leaders in the last decade have actually called for this to be put into effect. At that point its not a matter of one or two women who want to be buff and go rambo.. its a matter of your mother or your wife being drafted and sent to war wether she likes it or not.

That leads me to the final problem I have time to address right now.. feminism has stopped representing the interests of women, and become an ideological crusade of a few rabid bitter people. They don't care what women want anymore, because they think they know whats best for all women.

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Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
If a woman wants to get a job - good
If a woman wants to stay home and raise kids - good

I don't give a flippen hey doody do which any woman chooses.
A woman wanting to physically be like a man can be considered wrong.
Woman wanting equal rights is good.
Most feminist things want more rights than men to counteract what we already had.
Look at scholorships, there are many that are female oreinted, but hardly any male oreinted.

Basically, a woman should be what she is called to be.
If a woman has a burning desire to be a prison guard, let her pursue it. But realistically, would you rather have a man guard a prison, or a woman?
If it is a woman prison than that would make more sense.

I am rambling a little, I'm sorry.

Scientifically we are different. DEAL WITH IT!!!
In society, people treat them differently. DEAL WITH IT!!
Is it always right? no. DEAL WITH IT!!!

Sorry everyone, but thank you for hearing me out.
Max

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
no problem, we're dealing with it. lol


quote:
My mom has said many times that woman should NOT be treated equal with men because they ARENT equal.

I think the better term is "same". women aren't below men, but they aren't men.

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goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
She used the word equal.

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
He did not say that that is not what she said, he said that the better word for it would be same. I think that moral and socially, they should be treated equally and the same. In regards to different situations, they will not be trated equally always. If a heavy piano needs to be moved, and there is a man and a woman in the room, the guy will probly do it. It isn't fair for him to have to do it, and its not fair for her not to get to. I hope you understand my meaning. It is very contextual, but as I said before, social equality is a good thing.

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Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
this is klown's sister..

i feel that women can do just as much as a man.. we can lift a heavy piano.. we are not trying to be something that we are not, we want other people to see that we can do what a man can do.. we can take a car apart and put it back together.. we can gaurd a prison.. i want someone to tell me why we cant do what men do??? u know what we can have a strong upper body too and we dont have to take steriods.. all u have to is eat right and lift right and we can have a good upper body too.. we are not weak in anyway.. we can take a hit and give one right back too..

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
all u have to is eat right and lift right and we can have a good upper body too

as good as men? care to prove this? I'm not saying women are incapable. they can be very capable. and they have a wider range of tasks they can perform. but when people make a factually inaccurate statement, I'll disagree. Testorone is required for making very large muscles. Men also have a larger upperbody frame. people can tell the sex of a person merely by looking at their skeletons. Women cannot build the muscles mass a man can. they can become very toned. but the large muscles are for Power and Speed, both things necessary for giving hits. toning is for endurance. now, A woman cannot give and take hits like a man can. for one, they are lighter, giving less support hits and less weight to counter them. and I already mentioned the muscle bit.
now, I've seen women hold babies for a long time, while I'll be shifting constantly. but that's a different kind of muscle. white, not red. it is, as I said, endurance, not power and strength.
in my weight training class, not a single women, not even the instructor, can come close to my bench-weight. and I'm not like a beefed up guy; I just finally benched my weight. I also cannot think of a single woman in that class who can match a man in upperbody strength. I'm not saying women will always be weaker than a man.
I know women who are stronger than some men, atleast I think I do... I'm sure I do... but given the same work, fitness, etc, Men will develop larger muscles.

the strongest woman will not be stronger than the strongest man.

quote:
all u have to is eat right and lift right and we can have a good upper body too.

sure, of course women can have a good upper body. but not one like guys.
I hope not. that'd suck. okay. that comment is taking this down a wrong path....

so, tell me, truthfully. how much do you weigh and how much can you benchpress?

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HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Welcome!

Thanks for joining us here on the boards -- I hope you don't feel antagonized by all of us here -- we really don't want to make you unwelcome.

quote:
Originally posted by Klown:
this is klown's sister..

i feel that women can do just as much as a man.. we can lift a heavy piano.. we are not trying to be something that we are not, we want other people to see that we can do what a man can do.. we can take a car apart and put it back together.. we can gaurd a prison.. i want someone to tell me why we cant do what men do??? u know what we can have a strong upper body too and we dont have to take steriods.. all u have to is eat right and lift right and we can have a good upper body too.. we are not weak in anyway.. we can take a hit and give one right back too..


I don't have any problem with women going out for these things. The only problem comes when feminism because female chauvenism -- the counterpart to male chauvenism. Male chauvenists degrade and devalue the importance of women, while female chauvenists degrade and devalue the importance of men. God forbid that we disrespect women or devalue them for any reason just because they are women -- that's definitely wrong. Men and women are on an equal level. However, men and women are not the same -- we are very different. As a husband of a wonderful wife, I can tell you that my wife's strengths are definitely not my strengths, and vice-versa. It's a beautiful thing of marriage how a man and a wife complement each other -- as I said before, my wife is not below me. I honor her and cherish her and do my best to protect her and provide for her, but that doesn't entitle me to trample her underfoot or disrespect her -- she is a child of God and a co-heir with Christ.

Does that sound right to you?

Respectfully,
clint

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[This message has been edited by HanClinto (edited November 27, 2004).]

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Hey Klown's sister,

your post raised another problem I have with feminism. It has made women obsessed with judging themselves based on their abilities. A person's abilities is not the measure of who they are or of their worth as a person. Yet feminism totaly defines the value of women based on what they are able to do. "We're as good as men because we can do anything a man can do" "we can do this, we can do that,". The truth is women aren't as good as men because they can do anything a man can do.. they are as good as men because God made them in his image and likeness. There is only one standard of human value that has any real meaning and that is simply that we are all human.
think about what feminist arguments of value because ability do to handicapped people.
Drawing your value from your abilities will make you proud and arrogant, and it will leave you unfulfilled. That is what feminism does for women. It robs them of their real value and gives them a sham substitute that leaves them unfulfilled and only increases problems with self image.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
I still disagree that womem are as good as men. Yes even ArchAngel in the weightroom. I've seen my sister bench press 250lbs when she was a sophmore and playing football on our team. I also know a couple women in Detroit who not only can bench more then I can, also squat. And I know for a fact that they dont take steroids. Nothing wrong with taking protien shakes and creotine. All legal and even male's take them to help them beef up.

Now down to the skeletons. There is no difference my skeleton to yours. Maybe the height factor or the obvious tell tale signs of the broken bones i've had over my life time. Yet one can tell alot from a skeleton that's true. Like if they were over weight or what not.

I will still argue with everyone here that says feminism is wrong. It started out and is still working to be where every women need to be. You can say till you're blue in the face that feminism is wrong. Yet are women being treated as equals in teh work place? 7 out of 10 times when a promotion comes up the male will get it even tho the woman is just as qualified if not better then the he is. Still a horrible fact we have to live with. And yes I'll admite some of the new age feminist's have brought up some bad points to over shadow all the good but they're no bad then saying a women can't do this or cant do that like i've seen some here on the boards posted.

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The most dangerous person is one who believes they're a "Pretty Good Christian" = Mel Odom, Author of the Left Behind Apocalypse Book Series.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I think women should be given an equal chance on the workplace. I think they should have the rights that men have. and I'll give support for that too. we're not talking about that, so stop bringing it up.
we don't have a problem with old skool feminism.
it's the new movement saying women are like men. they're not. they deserve the same rights; they're human. but it became like so fet-- quest to be like men. and they have that right. it's just a bit depressing to see.

250lbs, eh? very impressive. I must admit, it's more than I can. I'm at 200. your sister should really consider being a body builder. the unoffical woman's max is 440.
unfortunately, the man max, at the olympics was 1000, I believe. and many bodybuilders get over 700.

and there is a difference in skeletons. you think a man's pelvic bones can support a baby going through?

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Soterion Studios

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
and there is a difference in skeletons. you think a man's pelvic bones can support a baby going through?

ouch

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If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

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Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
So you believe that when people say they're big boned they're not over weight?

Come on ... There is no difference between one skeleton from the next besides height and the former broken bones or skeletal disorder.

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The most dangerous person is one who believes they're a "Pretty Good Christian" = Mel Odom, Author of the Left Behind Apocalypse Book Series.

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
you guys are just bickering now. Listen to this. If a woman and I applied for a nursery position, because we both loved children. Equally qualified and all that, they would 99.999999% of the time pick the woman. That's not equal, is it? I think feminism should be eliminated. There should be no womans rights movement. For crying out loud, we should just make us all equal. But you know what, its not gonna happen. Women in general are always gonna be better at some things, and mens at others. Its the way God made us. There are exceptions, there are always exceptions. Why does anyone care in the first place? I don't care about any of it, its all nonsense and bickering about who is better. Neither is better or worse. PERIOD.

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* Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked in jet engines.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
This has been an interesting discussion. Well, here's my view:

-In nearly all workplaces, I'd say treat men and women as equals. The same requirements, the same standards, etc.

-Women should of course be given the same rights also: Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness/property.

-Of course, when there's kids, somebody has to stay home and raise them. Usually the mother, but I can understand the father, if he's fine with changing diapers, cooking, washing dishes, etc.

-To say we are identical is to ignore biology. Yes, there are exceptions to the rule, but in general there are differences. You can't completely ignore them, that would be a mistake. In general, treat everybody as equals, but I can understand that there may exist some circumstances where that may not be desireable.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

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ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
So you believe that when people say they're big boned they're not over weight?

um... that was slightly random. I judge according to each case. bring me a person with a large bone structure, but low fat percentage. I'll be more entitled to believe it.

quote:
Come on ... There is no difference between one skeleton from the next besides height and the former broken bones or skeletal disorder.

oh come on! you can't believe that? I are serioursly referring to all skeletons? everybody has variations, and skeletons are no exception. variation is essential to survival of a species.what's natural selection without it?
I even did a quasi-study on it. it was on the forearm length and hieght. believe me. the points fell all over the place. there were people who were shorter and had longer forearms. and the charts for males and females also differed.
but there are differences between the male and female skeleton.
ever wonder why they sold Mr. and Mrs. Skeleton instead of just Skeleton.
Females: larger pelvic bones, larger opening.
Males: larger rib cage, broader shoulders, thicker and longer limbs, more funnel-shaped pelvis.
these are mostly tendencies, but they still hold as differences.

quote:
PERIOD

funny choice of a word.

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Soterion Studios

GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Actually, Klown, the skeletal differences between the sexes are used all the time in forensic science and anthropology. Differences in adult male and female skeletons are reflected in differences in size (although absolute size is not a good indicator sex because of the tremendous overlap in size between male and female humans), shape and architecture. In general, non-metric methods of sexing the skeleton are very accurate, some would argue they are as accurate as metric methods. However, metric methods are an additional tool that simply provides additional data that will hopefully add accuracy to visual assessments of the sex of the skeleton. Also, there are some bones whose sex is best, or perhaps can only be, assessed metrically (for instance, the vertical head diameter of the humerus is virtually the only accurate indicator of sex for that bone). Conversely, non-metric methods are very important for verifying metric assessments because of the overlap in size in human males and females. And, as pointed out by ArchAngel, the pelvis in general, but the os coxae in particular, is the best bone to use because of the need of females to give birth to large brained neonates.
Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
the differences between men and womens skeletons and muscles is fantastic.. even the way they heal, men's muscle mass heals much faster after a cut, than a womens, while women heal internally much faster and better than men, due to our biological roles,

men and women ARE equal in value to God, but we are different, there however are many women who would be stronger than I in this world, and could be used in such arguements, but then there would be a thousandfold more men stronger than those men.

if our physical strength is equal accross par, the olympics and other such competitions should have every sport and challenge competed accross the board, with no seperate male and female categories. Guess who would complain in that case (other than the very strong and amazing women who does have a change to come in the top 10), it would be the women athletes - many who would consider themselves femenists, but they would complain that it was NOT FAIR to have to compete against men. actually you don't actually have to put them in competition to do the comparisions, just compare the times and weights of all the different competitions to prove this, but does that deminish those women athlets abilities? NO.. it is still amazing, and sometimes even more amazing..

but Christianity (compared to christian history, and 'religion' which has often distorted) is true feminism, Christ makes all equal, and we are equally valuable and worth, where GOd's plans and purposes for us are of both noble value.

Galatians 3:28
"There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."

and God is definately a "HE" is scripture, he is our Father , not our mother (or devine Godess or whatever else people come up with), human males do not contain the full reflection of 'being created in his image', women, distinct from men are also created in his image and reflect attributes and values of God in a wonderful way. there are many references to God in the scriptuer that show the more 'womenly' attributes, like compassion, such as in God gathering his children up in love and protection under his wings like a hen.
(staunch femnists would bite my head off for that, for they so often want to deny their own feminine idenitity and worth, and they look down on the female side of their characteristics, and only give themself value if they suceed in the more masculine attributes - which really is a bizzarre paradox for antimen feminists - that they would belittle their own feminity and strive for male characteristics while at the same time, its crazy in my mind. ) a true feminist, is secure in their idenity and worth of being a female.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
Right on Klumsy, I think this has been an eye-opening post. We can all pick something up from this for future use. It is great that so many ideas are shared and things cleared up. I learned a few things myself.
Fantastic everyone!

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* Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked in jet engines.