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Conservative or Liberal? – warsong




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If Christ had to choose I do not think he would choose either one. But what most religious people are lean towards conservative. Many rules in society that hinder religion lead towards the liberal view since many liberals come out with books and information and laws.

More conservatives are republicans but there are many democrats that are conservative. Many republicans are liberal in their view too. But some conservatives are that for other reasons like social conservatives for political reasons like California governor Arnold, or you have ones that are religious conservatives like Pat Robertson. Even Bush is in each and not a true conservative in his acting which he acts in many ways like Kerry.

Well more conservatives fought for moral decency in society. Even liberals were like the conservatives 50 years ago but now both have gone far away from the original values. The thing is that you can not anymore give your money to a group since both generally go against what the part use to stand for.

One person that fight for true conservative right is this http://www.eagleforum.org/ the women that made the site wrote a book about how judges change the law and do not enforce the law. She also stopped the equal rights amendment which one law from it was to take away men and women bathrooms so that both men and women go in the same room. The reason why conservatives use the eagle is to represent that the eagle has 1 mate for life and does not fool around.

I think no matter what conservatives do the society is going down the drain since many do not act but only talk about it. Even a Jewish conservative that helped Bush in his campaign said this about many bad conservatives http://www.jtf.org/xxx.phony.conservatives.part.one.htm

The news media, music, and the entertainment industry mostly lean towards liberalism. You have shows like Penn & Teller on Show Time saying how they are atheists how they attack Christianity.
You have the ACLU that the president is an atheist liberal that demands that the religious view is bad and the atheist view is right which they also helped pay for pedophiles cases against Christian parents.
Many actors, directors, musicians make immoral entertainment and no Christian stops them like they use to.

Even colleges are liberal which Yale or Harvard has a sex week and classes about sex. One class said for the students to get a video camera, find a partner, and then have sex with them and record it to be graded on how they perform. Or how about how a Christian club in some school are not allowed to discriminate against other beliefs, and that they must allow atheists to join and have a chance to be president of their Christian group. I don't know what odd thing they will do next. I do not have the site but it was online somewhere.
Well like one person said that people are going to hell in a hand basket.

CobraA1

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From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:
Or how about how a Christian club in some school are not allowed to discriminate against other beliefs, and that they must allow atheists to join and have a chance to be president of their Christian group.

K-State (the college I'm going to) actually had this happen.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
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Brandon

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Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Yeah definatly some crazy stuff going on for sure. It's kinda funny how these people grow in knowledge but shrink in wisdom at the same time.

ACLU = Anti-Christian Liberties Union (heheh)

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3rd Day Studios

"So many laughing at Jesus,"
"Well the funniest thing that He's done,"
"Is love this poor stubborn rebellious world,"
"While the hate for Him just goes on."

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited September 24, 2004).]

GUMP

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Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Shouldn't that be Anti-Christian Liberals Union?

I've actually met one of the original founders of the ACLU and even she said it's gotten out of control.

CobraA1

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From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Oh, yuck, Just went to the ALCU website, and I saw their info about some of their issues. It's absolutely appalling. They even support abortion, a practice that kills millions of individuals every year.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
They even support abortion,

um... hmm, let me think about that.. Yes. of course they did.
not as bad as Planned Parenthood, tho
now, PP... they're evil. they sold shirts saying "I had an abortion"
I wonder what they would say if someone came up with a shirt that said "I shot an abortion doctor"
it'd kinda be funny to see their reaction...

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Klumsy

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Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
yeah the world is pretty messed up
sad when the ACLU has turned into such an 'anti' organisation with evil agenda all in the name of 'liberty'

but i think its dangerous to class people as conservatives and liberals, and then write off all who claim to be liberal of any nature, like 'how could a christian be liberal', sure i as a christian don't align to the typical 'liberal' stereotype, but i won't allow such extremeists to steal a perfectly good word and biblical concept from me. in Christ i have liberty, but its in the context of absolute truth (which is unchanging and thus 'conservative' in value), its when liberty is taken out of this context, that evil has teh change to breed in it, and sin is at the door..

so what am i? a conserative liberal? a liberal conversative? or maybe a preservative libarian? just a christian.

Conservative in truth
Conservative in doctrine
conservative is understanding of sin, and its dangers, and the fallen nature of man
conservative in values
conservative into holding onto the bible
conservative in knowing my bibical purpose and plans for my existance and what i am to do in the earth
conservative in acocuntibility
conservative in testing all spiritual things
liberal in loving
liberal in mercy
liberal in giving
liberal in stepping out in faith into my God's plans and purposes for me
liberal in following a God who does thinks in unexpected and mysterious ways, above and beyond my reckoning.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz




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I agree klumsy on what you say and Christ would not side with either. But in this society you have to preserve than give more liberty to more perversions things have been liberated enough with love/lust,
they give too much mercy on the wicked and give no mercy to Christina values,
liberty to give you do not see in either party which is sad so liberals are symbolize it, and the same goes to the rest since they do not show it.

The thing is the lesser of two evils and more immoral people are taking control of the liberal party. Personally I am in the middle and neither does true Christian things. Also the church is in the middle but side with the conservatives more it seems since the liberals are not helping the cause.

Torial

Member

Posts: 73
From: Cedar Rapids, Ia, USA
Registered: 07-23-2002
I've actually been loaned that Supremacists book.. haven't started it yet.. but probably will soon.

I saw somewhere just today that conservatives are yesterday's liberals. And I've heard various teachers say similar things, that our society during a reformation aligns itself. But there is a foolish / sinful element that pulls to an extreme. The general public reacts against it, and culture settles somewhere in the middle... but no longer at the center of Biblical teaching. This happens multiple times, and the culture continues to slide away from being a Biblical culture.

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb01112002.html

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by CobraA1:
K-State (the college I'm going to) actually had this happen.



In the UK a church put an ad in the paper for an employee and turned down an applicant because they were atheist. They were taken to court and lost, and now it is illegal to turn down someone because of their faith.

I wondered why the Church of England was full of homosexual vicars etc.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
interesting... so it seems that the UK owns all businesses now.

Sidenote: to relate this to the US, that athiest was not protected under the first amendment. the first amendment applies to the government.

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Brandon

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Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Wow D-SIPL that's pretty bad. Yeah here in the US, that would be a reason that the "Seperation of Church and State" was created. Ha, well knowing the courts today I kinda wonder how that would play out tho'...

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3rd Day Studios

"So many laughing at Jesus,"
"Well the funniest thing that He's done,"
"Is love this poor stubborn rebellious world,"
"While the hate for Him just goes on."

Skynes
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Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
Seems to me these days that Separation of Church and state has had a reversal. Instead of church being involved in Government but Government not messing the church, the Church isn't allowed anywhere NEAR government and Government can dictate what the church can and cannot do....

It's so saddening...

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
seperation of church is not in the constitution.
it's a myth. what is in the constitution is that the government cannot restrict the free excerise of religion, or endorse a religion.

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GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Exact wording:

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"

Considering that the Supreme Court declared Secular Humanism to be a religion it could be said that judges are breaking the first amendment by "establishing" those beliefs as the only ones allowed into the public forum.

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
a very good topic and good posts all


Seperation of church and state was not formalized in any foundational government document of the US except the amendment posted by Gump, which, taken in its original context, means that the federal government can not establish one church or religion as the state religion and require people to be members of it. (and persecute people who are not memebers of it).

the phrase "seperation of church and state" is actually taken from a private letter written by Thomas Jefferson to a friend of his in france. When you take a close look at both the public statements of the founders, and the actions they took in government, it is obvious that they regarded christianity and christian morality as the foundation of american culture and american government.. whats more, even those of them who were not overtly christian, such as Benjamin Franklin clearly recognised the necessity of christian morality to sustain a free society.


I would also like to point out that our usage of Conservative and liberal today is fairly inaccurate. Liberal originaly meant someone who was in favor of liberty and the things pertaining there to, conservative simply means someone who wants to maintain the status quo. American "liberals" today are not about liberty at all, the closest you could get is that they are about liberteenism, they generaly support freedom to do evil and oppose freedom to do good. As for conservatism.. being conservative is only good if the traditional values of your society are good. In our case they are pretty good (for the most part) so being conservative is generaly good.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
considering that the Supreme Court declared Secular Humanism to be a religion

They also declared Atheism to be an officialy religion too.
funny, isn't it?

quote:
Jefferson to a friend of his in france

actually, he sent the letters to Anabaptists, who were concerned about government involvement with religion.

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Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
it should also be noted in this conversation that the public school curriculum in most cases follows verbatim the secular humanist worldview, which is both by the admission of humanists and by the recognition of the US government, a religion. (for many years they have even had religious tax exemption.. something many of them were fighting to give up because they purposely want to disguise themselves). So really, its not about having no religion in schools, its about having the religion they want in schools.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
[QUOTE]They even support abortion,


I wonder what they would say if someone came up with a shirt that said "I shot an abortion doctor"
[/QUOTE]

ROFLMAO!!!!!!

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

goop2

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Posts: 1059
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Registered: 06-30-2004
Everyone knows that we conservatives are evil.

www.EvilConservatives.com

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

Flamers23
Member

Posts: 30
From: gilmanton N.H U.S.A
Registered: 11-16-2004
I couldent even read all those long posts guys srry lol (if someone came out with a shirt that said that id order 10 )

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Im looking down the road of life and.....all i can see is CRAP!!!!

CobraA1

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Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
That evil conservatives website - LOL! I haven't seen a website so thick with sarcasm . We conservatives are evil, and we're conspiring to take over the world!

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
the liberals hate that site

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
in that case...


Favorites->Add to Favorites...

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goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
lol

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

Chickadoo

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Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
quote:
Originally posted by skynes:
Seems to me these days that Separation of Church and state has had a reversal. Instead of church being involved in Government but Government not messing the church, the Church isn't allowed anywhere NEAR government and Government can dictate what the church can and cannot do....

It's so saddening...


You hit the nail on the head, skynes. i'm glad that someone has finally stated that.

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sory bowt mi speling

goop2

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Posts: 1059
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I live in a church so I know what thats like... The building inspector thinks hes got supreme power and wants to get rid of us all together.

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

ArchAngel

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Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
ha! we all know the game developers pwn the building inspectors.

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goop2

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Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Huh? pwn?

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.