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Place your spam and complaining HERE – Goop2

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo, moo,

You Have Been Mood!

Thank you for listening.

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AAARG! My pik wont show? Whats going on???

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
what... the....?

lol.

a thread for spamming. haha. well.. actually, I have one on my forum too. haha... oh man...

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Soterion Studios

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
lol

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

Dranorter

Member

Posts: 19
From: Michigan
Registered: 07-08-2004
Look at my shiny avatar! I drew it myself!

Oh, and also my signature. What a wonderful thing understanding is... To quote the whole passage,

"Somewhere in my mid-thirties I stumbled upon evolutionary biology, particularly in the form of Richard Dawkins's books The Selfish Gene and The Blind Watchmaker, and suddenly (on, I think, my second reading of The Selfish Gene) it all fell into place. It was a concept of such stunning simplicity, but it gave rise, naturally, to all the infinite and baffling complexity of life. The awe that it inspired in me made the awe that people talk about in respect of religious experience seem, frankly, silly beside it. I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."

I'd say Adams has found God in his own way but not exactly admitted it. All truths are true, thats what I'd say. Well, not exactly what I'd say, I think I'd be more cautious, and take some time to figure out what I meant before I spoke. Or typed. Or whatever. But this is a spamming thread, is it not? Anyway, I like the quote.

So in the interest of spamming, heres some theory.

1) All religions are basically true, although they get so tied up in human language that they look different than each other.

2) Christ was a really smart guy, who happened to be the Son of God. How Cool! And now he still lives and all, but... well I can't get that far without losing the 'how cool' and jumping to 'sounds good' or 'well I gess so'... ... ........ .anyway,

3) The book "Stranger in a Strange Land" had its good points. Even the Fosterites in said book had some things right (i.e. God wants us to be happy, therefore we should be!). "Thou Art God" is a very twisted around way of saying "Amen", which is right next to saying whatever it was that was meant by this odd phrase. I get it, almost.

4) Prayer can affect the past, so if we would all pray about the past our lives would instantly shift over to being better without us even noticing 'cuz history would change. I bet it happens all the time. After all, normal prayer works.

5) As the Fourth Way (which is by the way not a book written with the exact goal of enlightening the readers) puts it, "You can not DO anything." The truth is, our consciousness has very little control of our moment-to-moment actions, and we are only rarely conscious to a very full extent, almost never completely so. I just fugured out today, however, why this is so. The fourth way says that we are all sleeping. Perhaps the guy knew what he was talking about more than he implied-- I think whats actually going on while our brains are hardly applying conscious effort is that we dream, all the time, without remembering it hardly. Daydreams of the most mundane sort- little 'simulations' of what might happen, always based on what has happened before, that are stored away as instructions so that we know what to do when the time comes without applying conscious effort. We constantly are subconsciously figuring out what we will do later on, when we get to it.

I have observed this phenomenon in two ways: A) I have caught myself making decisions without thinkng about them, and always the exact way I did it in a daydream/'simulation'. Try asking yourself why you did something after you do it; something really, really trivial. B) I have excercised what I call 'undeterminism' for a while- I watch my own mental processes and regulate them, whereas most people just let there mental processes watch their physical behavior and regulate it. That explanation wasn't very well written, but moving on... every so often while my brain is watching itself it sees a glimpse of one of these 'simulations' going on in the background, remembered hazily exactly like a dream is a few minutes after waking. However, when I catch the simulations running mid-stride they are remembered perfectly, almost exactly the way a dream is when you wake up in the middle of it but keep thinking about it.

6) I am going to make one more point for the purpose of ensuring that I am still spamming rather than hijacking a spamming thread and turning it into a discussion: All people are exactly the same at the heart of things. All disagreements are misunderstandings, but unfortunately sometimes people misunderstand themselves. Be careful to look at the person that exists, not simply the person you see through their words.

7) Wait! Wait! I'm not done yet!

8) God has absolute control of the Devil, and the Devil is God's tool for making things work out right. Its all part of the Plan. You can't see Light without Darkness.

Point in Case: Exodus 7, verse 3: "But I will harden Pharaoh's heart, and I will multiply my signs and wonders in the land of Egypt." Exodus 7, verse 14: "Then the Lord said to Moses, "Pharaoh's heart is hardened, he refuses to let the people go.""

Later on it talks about the magicians of Egypt and everything. Clearly the magicians works are evil, but they serve God's purpose.

9)Well, I think I'm done, but to make it official:

Moo.

Thank you for listening.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
-Douglas Adams, atheist

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:
AAARG! My pik wont show? Whats going on???

Goop2, your avatar isn't showing because your host no longer has it. Please also pick another format for it (like gif or jpg), bmp isn't very 'net friendly.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Zzzzzzz... Evoluzzzzzzzzzz. Huh? What?? Oh! The avatar! I made that one and freewebs hosts me,... and they dont hotlink...

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I drew my avatar myself. it's the middle of my old avatar.
I also drew Bennythebear's. haha. I didn't draw D-Sipl's. or Krylars. they have cool avatars.
yup.
spam.
yup.

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Soterion Studios

Turkwoyz

Junior Member

Posts: 4
From: harwell,oxfordshire,ENGLAND
Registered: 05-26-2004

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Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
http://www.godcentric.com/download/GODCENTRICAVI2.AVI

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
^ That looks awesome

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
that...

...was cool

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Soterion Studios

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Looks tight guys. God job!

Just out of interest how long did it take?

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:

So in the interest of spamming, heres some theory.

I'll just spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam back with a reply.

quote:

1) All religions are basically true, although they get so tied up in human language that they look different than each other.

Yeah, they all have a guy that died on a cross to save people from . . . .

-1 point for improper generalization . . .

quote:

2) Christ was a really smart guy, who happened to be the Son of God. How Cool!

-1 point for not realizing what the "Son of God" means, another -1 for not realizing its signifigcance.

3) 0 points because I never read those books . . ..

quote:

4) Prayer can affect the past

+1 for realizing that God is not limited to time.

quote:

The truth is, our consciousness has very little control of our moment-to-moment actions, and we are only rarely conscious to a very full extent, almost never completely so.

-1 because this is almost denying free will. Another -1 for believing in some random book over God's word.

quote:

The fourth way says that we are all sleeping. Perhaps the guy knew what he was talking about more than he implied-- I think whats actually going on while our brains are hardly applying conscious effort is that we dream, all the time, without remembering it hardly. Daydreams of the most mundane sort- little 'simulations' of what might happen, always based on what has happened before, that are stored away as instructions so that we know what to do when the time comes without applying conscious effort. We constantly are subconsciously figuring out what we will do later on, when we get to it.

Another -1 for getting lost in metaphysical "reasoning" . . .

It's been my opinion that metaphysical "reasoning" is rarely reasoning at all . . .

quote:

I am going to make one more point for the purpose of ensuring that I am still spamming rather than hijacking a spamming thread and turning it into a discussion:

TOO LATE! MUHAHAHAHAHA!

quote:

All people are exactly the same at the heart of things.

The "heart of things"? This sentence means absolutely nothing, AFAIK. Perhaps I will find this "heart of things" someday. Is it in the USA?

quote:

All disagreements are misunderstandings, but unfortunately sometimes people misunderstand themselves. Be careful to look at the person that exists, not simply the person you see through their words.

True.

quote:

Wait! Wait! I'm not done yet!

Well spam spam.

quote:

God has absolute control of the Devil

I agree.

Anyway, the points mean absolutely nothing (just like this thread), there's no prize or anything, just my not so humble opinion.

spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam chicken spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam spam

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited July 20, 2004).]

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
[quote]
4) Prayer can affect the past


+1 for realizing that God is not limited to time.[/quote]

ahhh.. time... how interesting. one scientist said the only thing about time that is different from the other dimensions is that our consciousness travels along it in one direction.

so... who says time envolops as we go? I personally believe it's all written out already. and we're just living moments of it.


quote:
[quote]
The truth is, our consciousness has very little control of our moment-to-moment actions, and we are only rarely conscious to a very full extent, almost never completely so.


-1 because this is almost denying free will. Another -1 for believing in some random book over God's word. [/quote]

ahh.. free will... who says we have free will? both from what I've seen in science, logic and the Bible says we do not have a free will. I never read free will in the bible. The idea of a will, free of the enviroment or any other influence is, well, stupid.

people have less sway over their actions than they think they do. The environment does shape people.

but, really, I do want to see a good verse supporting free will.
I do believe in a will, but by no means free.

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Soterion Studios

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
I do agree that we currently live in a quite limiting environment. I do not deny that there are many things we cannot physically do. This is not what I mean by "free will". By "free will", I mean the ability to make choices freely.

quote:

who says we have free will?

So people are just destined to be Christian or non-Christian? Our attempts to bring the good news to other people is in vain? What does Jesus mean when he says "Yet not as I will, but as you will" in Matthew 26:39?

Also, what about the existence of a soul? This ties in with other philosophies as well . . .

http://www.christian-thinktank.com/hmosoul.html

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
actuallllly.... Paul refers to christians as the Elect, and Romans 9:22-23 says that some vessels are fit for destruction and some for mercy.

quote:
Our attempts to bring the good news to other people is in vain?

well, that depends if you can see the future. as I said in my view of time, it's all written out, and we're just experiencing it. we never know what's happening next. and, besides,what we will do is also written out. so, it would be written out that sharing the gospel with so and so would lead them to Christ.

quote:
By "free will", I mean the ability to make choices freely.

I don't quite understand the concept of choices freely. for example, your choosing to buy a blue ball or a red ball. well, blue's your favorite color, so you go with blue. in previous experiences, you have classically conditioned to like blue; saying you have related good experiences with blue, like your room when you were a baby was blue, or it was held in society that blue was the color for men to like, etc. there are a lot of factors. okay. I'm really explaining behaviourism badly.
okay, let's say in order to make 5 bucks, your friends dare you to spend 10 minutes in a tight closed space. Unfortunately, your claustrophobic. when your a child, you were locked in the closet and connected a sense of fear and desperation with small and tight spaces. so, you turn them down. or, let's say, you really need that 5 bucks, cuz.. um... you really need a vanilla creme frapachino at starbucks (try it, it's really good. not coffee) so, you go in. in both cases, you did not make a choice freely, but influenced by factors in your environment. and of course, I explained it really badly, but it's alot more scientifically based than I made it seem.

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Soterion Studios

Dranorter

Member

Posts: 19
From: Michigan
Registered: 07-08-2004
quote:
-1 point for improper generalization . . .

Well, I guess, but I still say that God works through just about all religions. How is it that many of them are right at once, do you think? (Please someone answer this question! Otherwise I'll be talking to myself!)

quote:
-1 point for not realizing what the "Son of God" means, another -1 for not realizing its signifigcance.

Hey now, Christ was Son of God and he WAS God. If I don't realise the significance, someone explain it to me. I'd saw that the significance is that he gives us an example.

quote:
Another -1 for believing in some random book over God's word.

Once again, please correct me where I'm wrong rather than just telling me I'm wrong.

quote:
It's been my opinion that metaphysical "reasoning" is rarely reasoning at all . . .

Yes, metaphysical reasoning is often meaningless. That is how the Fourth Way scam tries to pull you in. However, it has real truths behind it, and the idea that we are all constantly running simulations is not a wishywashy metaphor, I really mean it. Its how our minds work, or at least how mine works. The system in place does not allow us ot make decisions at the moment we think we do, thus free will is not really right there. The moment we made the decision was the moment in which we 'simulated' what we would do, probably weeks or years or decades beforehand. And even that decision was based on previoius observations of how things usually go. (In fact I think that fear of death might be a cultural phenomenon.)

quote:
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All people are exactly the same at the heart of things.
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The "heart of things"? This sentence means absolutely nothing, AFAIK. Perhaps I will find this "heart of things" someday. Is it in the USA?

Very good point. People like me make meaningless sentences when they think that they have their audience hanging on every word and decide that they therefore don't have to actually explain what they mean. Let me try to wrap my mind around what I meant by "heart of things".

People are exactly the same at the heart of things. Therefore the heart of things automatically becomes the place where all people are exactly the same (USA, lol). What I meant was the fundamental centre of decision making that collects information from the point of birth. If everyone went at things from the same point of reference, then other than a slight difference that is undefinable and makes people individuals, they would all be exacly the same; I should know because I have a twin brother so I can figure out how much difference there is between people despite similar viewpoints. So what I mean is that if people communicate fully enough then they will begin to find that they agree. Communicate with themselves as well as others. However, I might be completely wrong about this, and in fact am not sure I believe it myself. But now I've explained my meaning better.

quote:

ahhh.. time... how interesting.

I choose not to believe any particular time theory (time theories- 1) It is already all written out 2) All possibilities of the future branch out before us in different dimensions, and our consciousnesses choose wich path to follow for no known reason 3) all the other time theories I can't think of currently), but instead believe that they are all possible. I don't have any evidence for any of them yet, so I choose to accept that any of them might work.

quote:
but, really, I do want to see a good verse supporting free will.

Does anyone know if the "God has no control over our free will" stuff is biblically based? I've heard from many sources that God controls everything except human will. Wierd.

And about free will. Yes, I'd say our decisions are already going to be however they are going to be. It just makes sense to me. But I don't really think that anyone is not saved; God's plan allows for everyone to find truth. So maybe trying to save people is in vain because even if we decide not to God will find a way, but that doesn't really make sense, does it? Otherwise Jesus would have jumped when Satan told him to and been saved by angels. Sure the angels would have saved him, just like God will find a way without our help, but its not the right CHOICE. (Hello, free will.) Choices like that are made by the circumstances, not by us, but we still make the choices better if other circumstances cause us to. (Great, so we have no freedom...) God decides what the circumstances are, so don't sulk about not having any freedom, every decision is made on the basis of God's gifts.

If you know what I mean.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
-Douglas Adams, atheist

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
quote:

I don't quite understand the concept of choices freely. for example, your choosing to buy a blue ball or a red ball. well, blue's your favorite color, so you go with blue. in previous experiences, you have classically conditioned to like blue; saying you have related good experiences with blue, like your room when you were a baby was blue, or it was held in society that blue was the color for men to like, etc. there are a lot of factors.

I don't think anyone disagrees that external factors (like preference, memory, etc.) *influence* choice, but it goes to far to say it determines choice. If we don't have real choice, the ability to override external influences, than we really have no more "choice" than a software program, branching on "if/else" statements bases solely on current conditions - our "choices" are illusions, and are really predetermined. If you say we have no choice, I literally have no choice but to disagree with you.

Brian

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Brian
miserere nostri Domine miserere nostri

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I'm still working it out, so I don't have a definite theory.
but I do believe that everything is predestined. (God knows all, after all. and it says in the Bible that He predestined all. (Eph 1:11 - In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will))
I think alot of our choices are illusions. people think they're deciding something, but they're going along with what their experiences as formed for them. I do know that we can determine an animals behavior by controling it's environment. I'm open to a different explanation for a human, being made in God's image.

to me, the Bible and Science both point away from free will (after all, they coincide). however, common sense (which can be worth squat in my situations) says free will.

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Soterion Studios

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
whoops, sry. forgot this one.
quote:
Well, I guess, but I still say that God works through just about all religions. How is it that many of them are right at once, do you think? (Please someone answer this question! Otherwise I'll be talking to myself!)

easy. they're all wrong. I don't remember them being right. I mean, how confusing would that be? no reincarnation and reincarnation both being true? wow. that's enough to drive a man crazy. maybe enough to implode the universe. well, okay. maybe not implode the universe.

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Soterion Studios

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:

Well, I guess, but I still say that God works through just about all religions. How is it that many of them are right at once, do you think?

I believe ArchAngel answered that, and I agree with him.

BTW, ArchAngel: I'm looking into the logo issue on my forum. Thanks for the suggestion.

quote:

Hey now, Christ was Son of God and he WAS God. If I don't realise the significance, someone explain it to me. I'd saw that the significance is that he gives us an example.

Yup, you've missed his significance completely.

John 14:6

quote:

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Not only is Jesus claiming to be God, he is claiming to tbe the only way to the Father. This creates problems with other religions, especially those not related to Christianity, for they do not have or recogize Jesus.

Also, the Bible is very clear about worshipping false gods - so much so, that it's the first two commandments!

BTW, I'm not familiar with the "Fourth Way" . . .

As far as the free will thing goes, I'm still trying to work it out myslef. I lean towards free will, mostly because of the garden of Eden: Why would God knowingly create the garden and the tree, knowing full well that it would lead to all the evils in this world? Why even create this earth for us to live on? The whole story of the Bible does not make sense to me if there is no free will, so I lean heavily towards free will or compatibilist views.

Science, BTW, gets wierd at the quantum level: The Heisenberg Uncertainty Principle states that the exact position of an particle and its velocity can't be known. Not only that, but some theories go as far as to say that this is inherit to the universe, not just a limitation of our way of measuring them. Things get a bit fuzzy when we deal with stuff like Schrödinger's Cat and other quantum wierdness . . .

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

Orion

Junior Member

Posts: 9
From: Reed City, MI, US
Registered: 07-14-2004
About free will: choices follow rules. If this were not the case, trying to spread God's word would have absolutely no effect, because nothing can effect a choice someone has made. How does determinism contradict change? You can't change the future, but you can change the present into the future. If you refuse to, then you've already made your choice. And that is that.

quote:

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

1) All religions are basically true, although they get so tied up in human language that they look different than each other.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Yeah, they all have a guy that died on a cross to save people from . . . .

-1 point for improper generalization . . .

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I guess, but I still say that God works through just about all religions. How is it that many of them are right at once, do you think? (Please someone answer this question! Otherwise I'll be talking to myself!)
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


easy. they're all wrong. I don't remember them being right. I mean, how confusing would that be? no reincarnation and reincarnation both being true? wow. that's enough to drive a man crazy. maybe enough to implode the universe. well, okay. maybe not implode the universe.


<WARNING: opinions ahead>

Yes, some other religeons DO have a guy who died on a cross. One that I know of. It's the whole greek thing. Zues had a son with a human mother, when the son came of age he started wandering around claiming to be a new god, a god of Wine, he performed miraculus miracles, talked about Zues as if he was the only God, the One God, he was persecuted and killed, he was ressurected, and he caused generations of Greeks to beleive that each and every person had an immortal soul.

I'm not up on my Buddhism, but i think Buddha is somewhat similar. He holds an importand position close to that of God, and I'm pretty sure Buddhism has One God, the same One God that we have.

In fact, many religeons have One God, although the Hindu religeon also has many lasser gods, which might instead be called "angels" to make then fit with our ideas better.

Christ did have better teachings than the Wine God of Greece, and has effected world history a lot more. But I find it difficult to beleive that Christ's death for forgiveness of all sins and his Ressurection are limited to one time and place. Other religeons can be thought of as "preludes" or something; like symbolic re-enactments, but ahead of scedual. God's forgiveness is everlasting, even beforehand.

Comments?

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"True = false."
-Godel

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
About the time thing... it isnt posible to change what has happened before you, it is imposible to change what will happen after you, everything we do is planed. God knows what will happen, and it cant be changed...

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------------------------

True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
If the future is set, then if I commit a sin that means God predestined me to - it is God's will that I commit that sin, and there is no way I could have avoided committing that sin. This contradicts many scriptures. Also, if the future is set, God predestined me to point this out to you.

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Brian
miserere nostri Domine miserere nostri

[This message has been edited by BrianT (edited July 21, 2004).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I didnt say God told you to steal the money from your mom.
I said it was going to happen no matter what. If you steal from your mom it means God knew satan was going to tempt you 300 billion years ago.

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

Briant

Member

Posts: 742
From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada
Registered: 01-20-2001
You said it's impossible to change the future, and everything is planned. Who planned that Satan tempt me, and planned that I give in to that temptation? Who made it impossible for me to avoid it?

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Brian
miserere nostri Domine miserere nostri

[This message has been edited by BrianT (edited July 21, 2004).]

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
time is a dimension, just as height, length, width. now, our consciousness travels along this dimension. it's not created as we go, we're just experiencing it. Essentialy, you can say, anything you will do, you did. it's written out. you did it. your responsible. you just haven't experienced it yet.
it's my theory, atleast. I like it. it fits alot of things together.

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Soterion Studios

Dranorter

Member

Posts: 19
From: Michigan
Registered: 07-08-2004
Yes, God planned for you to sin.

It was a sin for Jesus to be betrayed. It happened because if he hadn't been betrayed then things just wouldn't have worked out right, God's plan wouldn't have gone into action.

We sin because we cannot discern light without shadow. We should thank God for sin, it is a gift just as repentance is. But before we thank Him we must understand... it is a great man who can both truly recognise a sin as a sin and thank God for it at the same time.

God plans our sins, but it is we who must both learn from the sins of the past and avoid the sins of the future. So what if God already has planned rather or not we will avoid them successfully? That has no real affect on the process of avoiding sin.

Thank God for that.

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
"I'd take the awe of understanding over the awe of ignorance any day."
-Douglas Adams, atheist

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by Dranorter:
Yes, God planned for you to sin.

It was a sin for Jesus to be betrayed. It happened because if he hadn't been betrayed then things just wouldn't have worked out right, God's plan wouldn't have gone into action.

We sin because we cannot discern light without shadow. We should thank God for sin, it is a gift just as repentance is. But before we thank Him we must understand... it is a great man who can both truly recognise a sin as a sin and thank God for it at the same time.

God plans our sins, but it is we who must both learn from the sins of the past and avoid the sins of the future. So what if God already has planned rather or not we will avoid them successfully? That has no real affect on the process of avoiding sin.

Thank God for that.



God doesn't plan for us to sin. Otherwise we wouldn't have a free will and may as well be robots.

God knows everything past, present and future. He knows what sins you will commmit before you even do them but he doesn't plan it.

Thank God for sin... God is sinless and pure, he is without sin. If you want to thank someone for sin, go thank Satan and please do on your own and not on here.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:

Zues had a son with a human mother, when the son came of age he started wandering around claiming to be a new god, a god of Wine, he performed miraculus miracles, talked about Zues as if he was the only God, the One God, he was persecuted and killed, he was ressurected, and he caused generations of Greeks to beleive that each and every person had an immortal soul.

Did a google search, found the greek god of wine, Dionysus. And it wasn't death on a cross, it was dismemberment by the titans, not to mention that the fact that he came back to life is the only thing it has in common. There's nothing about forgiving sins, or dying to save us mortals. You're pulling at straws here.

quote:

I'm pretty sure Buddhism has One God, the same One God that we have.

Unless Buddah sent his only son (who was fully man and fully God) to the cross to die and come back to life to save us from our sins and have eternal life in heaven, he is not the "same One God". Not to mention Buddah should also have the same attributes as our God - he must be eternal, loving, just, etc. Not to mention Buddah should've written the Bible . . .

Simply having one god is not enough to qualify. I think the first two commandments are clear about how God views people who worship other gods.

quote:

I find it difficult to beleive that Christ's death for forgiveness of all sins and his Ressurection are limited to one time and place.

They are not so limited. They are not, however, found in other gods.

quote:

God's forgiveness is everlasting, even beforehand.

Which is why we have an Old Testament as well as a New Testament. Of course God offered forgiveness before he sent his son.

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Reasoning with non-believers without encouraging them to read the Bible, I have found, is quite useless. God's word convinces - not our own reason.
--CobraA1

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - Writing object code and GUI.

kiwee

Member

Posts: 578
From: oxfordshire, england
Registered: 04-17-2004
spam!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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I Am Gods Kid!!

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Time is like a rollercoaster. You may have a nice smooth ride, or you might get huge drops, loops, and corkscrews (personaly I like the second one ). But how many roller coasters have you seen being built during the ride? Probabaly not many.

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True = False
False = Goop
Goop = 2
2 = Goop2
Whish I knew what that meant...

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
Quoth the Raven, Nevermore.

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Soterion Studios

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Not much spam lately...

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"Democrats stink"

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
Hey Goop ya moop you can't link *.bmps for your avatar when it's not on the webspace it's uploaded too.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Eeeeeew thats not me!

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"Democrats stink"

en972

Member

Posts: 562
From: NOT TELLING!
Registered: 08-27-2004

MONKEYS!!!!!!! MONKEYS!!!!!!!!! MONKEYS! Hi Arc, haha. you never thought I'd follow you here!

Hi mack, thanks for the info you e mailed me on the game makeing stuff

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Hard work often pays off in time, but lazieness always pays off now.

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
Mack that image you have there of Goop is 10/10 - I love the waterfalls - the whole thing is WICKED !! nice going, top graphics my view

as for SPAM hehe 419eater is incredible, that bloke deserves a medal for sure, I just spent HALF AN HOUR totally engrossed on that site - there is some great info there, not just about spamming either

419eater is like the Indiana Jones of the spam world, check him out, he is superb

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Do you live or work in Surrey? Why not JOIN the Surrey.CO.UK premier website then? It's all about Surrey places and people, join up!

en972

Member

Posts: 562
From: NOT TELLING!
Registered: 08-27-2004
We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teacher, leave those kids alone.
Hey, Teacher, leave those kids alone!
All in all it's just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
We don't need no education.
We don't need no thought control.
No dark sarcasm in the classroom.
Teachers, leave those kids alone.
Hey, Teacher, leave those kids alone!
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.
All in all you're just another brick in the wall.

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Hard work often pays off in time, but lazieness always pays off now.

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
i didn't realise i got replies to my post to the AVI..

how long did it take..

maybe about 2 hours, though the software code that makes up the program that made it took alot longer. also i only captured 10 or 20 seconds so the avi would be 'small' ish

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

en972

Member

Posts: 562
From: NOT TELLING!
Registered: 08-27-2004
And I'd give up forever to touch you
Cuz I know that you feel me somehow
You're the closest to heaven that I'll ever be
And I don't want to go home right now

And all I can taste is this moment
And all I can breathe is your life
Cuz sooner or later it's over
I just don't want to miss you tonight

And I don't want the world to see me
Cuz I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am

And you can't fight the tears that ain't coming
Or the moment of truth in your lies
When everything feels like the movies
Yeah, you'd bleed just to know you're alive

And I don't want the world to see me
Cuz I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am

And I don't want the world to see me
Cuz I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am

And I don't want the world to see me
Cuz I don't think that they'd understand
When everything's made to be broken
I just want you to know who I am

I just want you to know who I am
I just want you to know who I am
I just want you to know who I am

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Hard work often pays off in time, but lazieness always pays off now.

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
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carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey.

You want me to stop, dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? So puny and insignificant compared to my awsome POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@################################## ###################################################################$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&************* ********************************************************************(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((heh eheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe - crazy ish one

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
yeppers....he did draw mine. i'm going to fill up my 7 remaining post to topping out my stars. anywho......

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

HeardTheWord

Member

Posts: 224
From: Des Moines, IA
Registered: 08-16-2004
Wow! I thought maybe there was a limit to the amount you could type in a post.

I think spamming the boards would take too much effort. So here is my simple message to you all.

SPAM

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
dont u jus luv copy-paste hotkeys. hehehehe

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

en972

Member

Posts: 562
From: NOT TELLING!
Registered: 08-27-2004
doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey doug and carey.

You want me to stop, dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? dont you? So puny and insignificant compared to my awsome POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! POWER!!! RAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@@################################## ###################################################################$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&************* ********************************************************************(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) ))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((()))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))(((((((((((((((((((((((((((((( ((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((())))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((heh eheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheheh ehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehehe - en972

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Hard work often pays off in time, but lazieness always pays off now.

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
u.u.u. i dislike u to an exteme, disproportionate, point. u.u.u. thief. u. u. u. evil thingamajig.!!(@*#(!!(*@*!!*&!#&! Arg! everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeve rybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesr aymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeveryb odylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraym ondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybody lovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeve rybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesr aymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeveryb odylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraym ondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybody lovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeve rybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesr aymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeveryb odylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraym ondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybody lovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeve rybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesr aymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeveryb odylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraym ondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybody lovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond
everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymond
everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond
everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymond
everybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylov esraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeve rybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesr aymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeveryb odylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymondeverybodylovesraymond

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
IhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymond IhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymond IhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymond IhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymond IhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymondIhateRaymond


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"Democrats stink"

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
COW DOG!
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
...
okay, let's say in order to make 5 bucks...
...

how does being afraid of being locked in a closet as a child relate to being claustrophobic? Two different things my friend. If you are claustrophobic you are automatically afraid of being locked in such a space as a closet. But, being afraid of being locked in such a space as a closet does not make you claustrophobic - it just makes you afraid of being locked in a closet. Claustrophobia would make you avoid crawl spaces under a house, or narrow staircases of multiple stories, etc.

A recipe for those with excessive amounts of time and nothing significant to do:
Spam is good when baked with a coat of maple syrup, in a pan with pork flavored beans mixed with maple syrup, ketchup and mustard to taste, and topped with cheddar cheese. Mmm-mmm. Of course, you can substitute ham for spam if you so desire.

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
HAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!


NICE Dow errrr... Cog? heheheh

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3rd Day Studios

"So many laughing at Jesus,"
"Well the funniest thing that He's done,"
"Is love this poor stubborn rebellious world,"
"While the hate for Him just goes on."

Rooth

Junior Member

Posts: 5
From: Finland
Registered: 09-14-2004
Check our site
www.west-coast-entertainmet.com with our new game!
Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
sit Ubu sit!!!

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I never thought my post would be so popular

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"Democrats stink"

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
How do you like the funky avatar I made myself?

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
you got it from the RPGMaker.. huh... didn't you?

I like it.

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Soterion Studios

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Well I uh... Yep. But I did the writing myself!
Do you like this one better? It isnt mine but it looked so good that I had to atleast save it.

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

[This message has been edited by Goop2 (edited November 16, 2004).]

Flamers23
Member

Posts: 30
From: gilmanton N.H U.S.A
Registered: 11-16-2004
Strange ive seen dat 1 too somewhere hmmmmm i wonder where well since the is a spamm place umm hehe
blablablalbblalbalbalbablablablablablaballaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaabblalbalbalblabalblablabalblablalbalbalbalbalbalbalbablalbalbalbalblbalbalbalbalbalbalbalbalbalbablalbablbabll abblablablalbalbalbalbalbalbalagtenbiuvsjkg,kfrhbnvfckldxnhvjkn clkfbuivwdkxlnv cjsdfkbgoklxnviufsdgbnvj czbvhjsdnvjzbgvjdzxcuivjbsdn kvjjkldsbchjxdfdgxcgjhdghvfgsxrhgvfifgbihysadgbfvsdcfhdbvhcsbhvcnbshidfbsrhcuhsdbjvfjkcdfybfuvgyusdibgfhsdgfkjsdgbfsjfgbedbshkgfcudjkbvfusdigbvjkgbfvcujkdsbcusdhybgcfjdsbfusdjkbfeh ckewagbfiweklagbftauilwghyiudsghfjksdghfjekbgfiuedbtfjdgbfrejkdbfgiuewgbhjuigewuightuweig4tuiegwr4tfju3hwecnweucfyewrfhsnfsdjkhfwcnhysuzfdnvjkeghuidfwergtfbcabhfrweugrbdjsebfruiwef rhnwqlhre89e3gtbfrjekdhwrfweuihfrnejklhrweuigbfuasehnfrweiyahdeoiyhrfwauhfcjewhtrf9834jnu5yr89 rucbjshcjcnhsahnxdsgfsjihklrfnuihfnjkweguyefbesgbjkefnorugbherjkdgjkewgvbyuhgrbugfbfwakejugfuwegbtfryuhwefujgiftuiwergftrbuiefgbsdjkfiuwjkffjksdgfsjdlgheruihfjkughdsfjkebgiufkgejbg fiuguedbfjgsdbiukrfnlksbfhuaiwbjkfbgeuifbkwhegfebwagfrgbwakjfbgtiaukbgfiwaughbfrjkfbgfbhicjbhucwkjebhuwefjcbendgfrweughfjegbwuifbjebgfrejhfncdbuwejbfcjdsgftrweknbfrgaufrhwlkahfuawg hfuawghbfjbcuiwgfcbjksdbfkewgfbfbdsjgrebkgdskfjwebsdgfiubgfsacrauicfbncffcbgcfkdfguyfsdhbjdggfdghdfcbgjbhfccyurhdydherbjhcdyhurehnjchyuherwchufgvwejkfcbeisgbfj43ewkgdfyuh34brfiyfvg btrjffg2b3yrjkwgfbutjegfbj3k4mefvhkj23rgbjk4twergubjl432etguo45ej6tyh45oiljkhgtnoklrfsdbvgijk4nm5,rbgjfsdy89hunkl34wefsodhiklgnviustgholk3erdbicughngkjrdsuihnbhjsdfbgiuwfegds87gub3 4kewgbijk3rrgdyibjkwefcdxbgjkfwedyhbjftr4debgkn3rfdugjbhnwfsdgbjasdoilkhewgfivbujkewbfgciybfhjdegfjkbdvgfucjkugehwiubvsdrugh ftuery7tfuigrvcnh43876cfcfcfcfc4eryivnurtgnuvfevtrhcuihyuwefhdgbfujrgfiwerbgfiugfbhgfryirywebjugfwiehnfkjowehfrwuiefhnjfbhuisdbfweuhbfjcndbfuwerihnfjkwehfuweifbjdsnfuijjdksnfoiwehn kfjbksdbfhubgjkashguigbreugfybuahuygbfiwjabguyfebjaegdbryufcyugrfbyuegyufgfyuherwhgeruigygtruirehuiogaerifhurefhiuorewgfuwiherfuyghiwuefrhweuigyefgftryeiwgfycgeygfcywehfiuwgitfwegh iytf3otrfgo4yirfgoirhuewrghygfywr6yfgtuigyrt76g4efhgx8z7t632rbejhvgbtrfwejsdy5hu2regbjkewg7gyu4bhjewiugkjbfc87ui5br4jeygbrjkwegbuijkt4egoihklfyiuwefiugt4jwaubwjfgiuewgbuifwgbfewuig bfikwsgblwefgufwgufruiwrigulrewugreguigurgurewwregiulrguiguiweugiwerguwerggu4ugewgewtr78wuhut4herwh4o78ry8uhreihjerwhyt4herwhtyrehjt34rtfhuy34u89 yvfrhvfruiwbhlkgjbhosudtygierjskbfhoiyreoitfcny4witvu eycn7t5vubcnmn5t8rej vjvdfcnitrvcmsriuvnuchrseacnytwevmweytncyrnyweuiycnvu4ynyreucnyrevcyu

phew wow ok u guy wont believe me but that was not copy paste that was typing all the way ya no wut? theres atleast 3 words in there and i did not put them in on purpose lol good luck finding the though phew im done bye

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Im looking down the road of life and.....all i can see is CRAP!!!!

Flamers23
Member

Posts: 30
From: gilmanton N.H U.S.A
Registered: 11-16-2004
Oh and by the way how do u put an avatar on ur thing????

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Im looking down the road of life and.....all i can see is CRAP!!!!

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
on the homepage, bottom right, there's a link called "update your profile" click it. follow directions.

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Soterion Studios

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I can do the whole thing for him. lol

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I took the road less traveled and now WHERE THE HELL AM I?????

Flamers23
Member

Posts: 30
From: gilmanton N.H U.S.A
Registered: 11-16-2004
ok bro if u can do it for me GET OVER HERE AND DO IT!!!!!!!!! thank you that is all


moo

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Im looking down the road of life and.....all i can see is CRAP!!!!

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
The idea of a will, free of the enviroment or any other influence is, well, stupid.

people have less sway over their actions than they think they do. The environment does shape people.


Can Anyone tell me ONE choice they mad absolutely free of influnce?
*grin*

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sory bowt mi speling

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
I'd love to see someone answer you and claim they were uninfluenced by the environment.

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Soterion Studios

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
I'd love to see someone answer you and claim they were uninfluenced by the environment.


I know; that's why I put it in there.
Also, since this is also a complaining thread--- THIS PLACE IS TOO FULL OF SPAM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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sory bowt mi speling

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002

I mean sure.. why not?

so, you're from europa, eh?
not a bad place after the terraform.

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Soterion Studios

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
#1What is the terraform and number two what do you mean not a bad place its the best place in the galaxy!

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sory bowt mi speling

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Saying people are influenced by environment is true, but its also kind of meaningless. Take two people who grew up in the same environment, to make sure its really the same environment, make them brothers, say with an alcoholic father, one of them ends up becoming an alcoholic, just like his father, the other refuses to ever touch an alcoholic beverage his entire life. Same environment, the environment influenced both cases, yet the influence was exactly opposite.

Environment does infuence, but we decide how. Environment doesn't determine choice, or outcome. It provides fuel, or raw material, we decide what to do with it.


And for the complaining aspect, to stay on topic, it really annoys me that people like oprah and dr. phil who sit around spewing trite cleiche'd nonsense develop huge audiences of devoted followers. It just goes to prove theory #3... people are dumb.

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-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking Religious people do not have chained thinking

I'm getting sick of the idea that religious people are not "free thinkers" and the "holier than thou" attitude coming out of the mouths of "free thinkers", especially at my college . . .

Well, I haven't met them personally yet (although I probably will when I move on campus), but they have a website that reeks of the idea that religious people follow their religion without ever doubting it, which is not true. It's especially targeted at Christianity .

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
Saying people are influenced by environment is true, but its also kind of meaningless. Take two people who grew up in the same environment, to make sure its really the same environment, make them brothers, say with an alcoholic father, one of them ends up becoming an alcoholic, just like his father, the other refuses to ever touch an alcoholic beverage his entire life. Same environment, the environment influenced both cases, yet the influence was exactly opposite.

That's not true. each of those brothers experienced slightly different environments. enought to set off a butterful effect. one classical conditioning causes a different reaction to another situation, etc.
now, if your situation actually possible, they would be the same. but of course, they would have to be one person in order for that to happen.

quote:
people are dumb.

no arguement here.


quote:
#1What is the terraform and number two what do you mean not a bad place its the best place in the galaxy!

Terraform means "to form like Earth." basically I was talking about when the modified the planet. warmed it up, melted the ice, etc.
No, sry. Alpha Centauri is the best place in the galaxy.

quote:
I'm getting sick of the idea that religious people are not "free thinkers" and the "holier than thou" attitude coming out of the mouths of "free thinkers", especially at my college . . .

I hear ya. they've have no idea what they are dealing with.
oh well, these "free thinkers" are just tossed around by their environment. what can I say?

one guy on campus gives me flak by telling me what I believe and then proceeds to argue against it. it's pretty funny to watch him go. we can hold a debate without me saying a word. it's usually best for me to catch up on my naps then.

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Soterion Studios

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
The influence of environment on someone is a classic example of presumptuous theories common in philosophy today. Its a set of assumptions that are at best inductive in nature, not deductively verifiable and yet people hold them at the level of a scientific proof.

Another good example of this is the idea that everything people do is motivated by self interest, or selishness. Even self denial is selfish because the person believes that they will be better off in the end, or in the next life or what have you, if they deny themselves here.

These kind of assumptions are bandied about as though they are undeniable and the ultimate in reasonableness, when in fact, they are not only unprovable, but in many cases amount to little more than arrogant prejudice.
Particularly this is true of the second example, it presumes that you can know without doubt what everyone thinks, what their ultimate motivations and hopes are and then presumes that every human being is ultimately and supremely motivated by selfishness. It is, essentially, racism against the entire human race.
Even in the case of the "environment" argument this is true. It assumes that you can know exactly how a given environment affects someone and determines their choices, and it also assumes that it can know people's inner thought process and why they do what they do, and it assumes that people are incapable of independant thought or choice. None of which are good or terribly reasonable assumptions.

------------------
-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
i agree with you totally about the enviromental element, as i believe God created people uniquely different in substance despite the enviroment, though of course enviroment has its factoring, one of the big "enviroment" thinking workoff though is if we just work out how to manage the enviroment we can create a society agreeable to "our" goals (whoever our is , and another one is an excuse for accountibility to our actions, its no longer "the devil made me do it " , but "my enviromental programming" made me do it - poor me, look i've been just as much a victim or more so a victrim in my life than the victim of my crime..

as for the selfishness thing, i think however it is true, however humans do not know the hearts of other humans and cannot judge them and their motives as such, only God knows teh heart of men, and many marriages and other relationships have been ruined by one assuming the worst about the others motives, when the situation is often innocent and maybe a coincidence or ignorance at best, However following our human sinful nature, i think it is true to a point, that in our humanity that even in our most gallent bravery and self sacrifice , we cannot truely love selflessly, even our loving God in the beginning is mostly a response to how he maded us feel, what we get from Him, BUT with Christ in us, changing our heart, our motivations, we can live by the spirit and love with pure motives and selflessly - its a miracle of salvation, a gift from God. And i find in my christian walk, i often codemned myself because of real of false ulteria motives, but now i notice that in a decision is often a component of motivation of the spirit, but also of the flesh, when i see the fleshly motives, i now don't get discouraged and discard the spirits part at all, but rather take the fleshly part before God, laying myself again as a living sacrifice before him.

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
um.. humans are naturally selfish...
who says we're not? bible? bible says we are... Science? science says we are. humanists say we're good at heart, tho.

first, the environment argument isn't to say we're held hostage by our environment can't break free of it's influence. that's riduculous, you are who you are, regardless of how you got there; it's a truism. The environment theory is merely a theory to describe behavior. also, when I say environment, I'm referring also to biological factors.

so, tell me, where does behavior come from? no where?
it's not a presumptuous theory. and science is inductive by nature.

so tell me your thoughts on classical conditioning?
a presumptuous theory or an actual behavior mechanism?

I actually consider free-will a "presumptuous theory common in philosophy today." nearly everybody believes it. and yet there is not facts to back it up. atleast environment has decades of research to back it up. and it actually makes logical sense.

quote:
It assumes that you can know exactly how a given environment affects someone and determines their choices

yes, If I knew everything and could process that information. I could predict exactly what would happen, from the roll of a dice, to a person's actions. I mean, people's responses, etc can and have been graphed to a normal curve, to a huge success.

quote:
and it also assumes that it can know people's inner thought

the environment doesn't know anything. it merely provides a situation which reacts with a person.

quote:
people are incapable of independant thought or choice.

um... yes, they are. independent choice? where does it come from? if it's not influenced by any factor, it's random. is our choices and thoughts independent of God? is the way our brain functions independent of the factors that surround it?

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Soterion Studios

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
All this ties in with whether or not non-physical souls exist. If non-physical souls exist, then they can influence us independently of the laws of physics of this universe.

If they don't exist, however, then we're pretty much limited to our own laws and random chance.

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
here's wat i think...

a person is a product of their environment. in the nature vs. nurture argument, i think that nurture is the obvious choice. If you place a healthy baby in an inner city ghetto, chances are he will be in prison by the age of 25. if you had placed that same child in the rockafeller household, he wouyld have grown to be a pretentious snob, had he been pampered. Yes, we have a free will and our chices affect us, but the also affect the rest of the world, and our choices are in turn affected by the world around us.

Example:
I see a pizza hut commercial on tv in the morning.
While sitting in science class i decide that pizza is what i want for lunch.
I get in line. When i finaaly get the the food, there is one slice left.
I take it.
The kid behind me also wanted pizza.
But there is none left.
So he gets a salad.
Because of some bad choices on the lunch staff'e part, the dressing is sour.
He eats it, and begins to feel sick.
He gets food poisoning.
He misses alot of school work, and so his grade goes down.
He's not the kind of kid who catches up easily(due to chooses he has made)
He misses 2 soccer practices, and therefore not eligable to play in the game.


This could go on and on, with the results of that tv commercial shaping events in the world. its quite freaky if you follow a trail like i just did for long enough.

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
Did he have a choice to have salad? Also, you said that he has trouble catching up due to choices he has made
Also, the comercial did not force you to have pizza. so his missing soccer, and failing grades are the direct results of choices that people have made!!!
non-sequitur.

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sory bowt mi speling

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
it's more deeper and complicated than that.

quote:
All this ties in with whether or not non-physical souls exist. If non-physical souls exist, then they can influence us independently of the laws of physics of this universe.
If they don't exist, however, then we're pretty much limited to our own laws and random chance.


only reason why I'm not declaring a sort of will to be totally wrong.
but even with the existence of a soul, which I believe, it's still doesn't mean free-will exists

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Soterion Studios

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
He gets better.
He sees a pizza hut commercial on TV...

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
it has more to do with desires.
say you were at a store and there was a red ball and blue ball, equal price, shape etc, just color variation.
you pick the blue ball. why? because you like the blue better. why? it could possibly be many reasons. your room, etc could have been blue and thus any positive experiences would be classically conditioned/linked with the color blue. maybe you were told that blue is a man color. remember when we were young, we'd choose blue because it's manly. maybe now it doesn't matter, but that classical conditioning is still in play.
maybe your buying the ball for a nephew, and he likes the color blue. so, you want to make him happy, so you go with blue. maybe you choose blue because it was closest to you. in that case, a lack of conditioning caused you to go with the most accessible option around.

now, there could be countless factors playing into this. and also note that the environment is not uniform, factors will counter eachother and conflict will occur. now, that conflict really creates an illusion of choice.

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Soterion Studios

Max

Member

Posts: 523
From: IA
Registered: 09-19-2004
There is an incredible amount of posts in this place!
And I just added one!

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* Eagles may soar, but weasels aren't sucked in jet engines.

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
why do threads that are not game oriented turn to either theology or world news? Why is it nit that simple? also Archangel, europa is the best place in the galaxy; alpha Centuri is in another galaxy!!

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I'm Reformed, but I just don't know it yet.

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
um.. humans are naturally selfish...
who says we're not? bible? bible says we are... Science? science says we are. humanists say we're good at heart, tho.

I agree that humans are, by our fallen nature, selfish. However, Humanity ,in a sense, has two natures, its fallen twisted nature, and its nature that was created in the image and likeness of God. Thus, we are selfish by nature, but originaly, and by the calling of God, we are meant to be, and can be something else. We can be not selfish.
What I was originaly refering to in this comment on selfishness was a very common philosophical theory (held to be fact by many people) that every human action is motivated ultimately by selfishness.. if you worship God you do it out of selfishness, if you give good things to your children you do it out of selfishness, if you give your life for another, you do it out of selfishness. The rationale behind this is that in your mind, though you say you do it because it is "right" what you really mean is that it will benefit you more in the next life, or in some higher sense in this life. Under this view people are utterly incapable of doing anything that is not selfish. It destroys the very concept of righteousness and virtue. This is a philosophical argument I have run into on many occasion, it has single handedly convinced many people that there is no such thing as virtue, and that everything is selfishness.
Ultimately this idea isn't based on any real fact, or any more reasonable idea than a simple prejudice. It is no more logical or right to believe that all humans are incapable of non selfish action, than to believe that all black people are theives, or all mexicans are lazy. Its simple prejudice.

quote:

first, the environment argument isn't to say we're held hostage by our environment can't break free of it's influence. that's riduculous, you are who you are, regardless of how you got there; it's a truism. The environment theory is merely a theory to describe behavior. also, when I say environment, I'm referring also to biological factors.

This is what I have been saying.. you, however, have been saying the opposite.. even in this very response you argue that environment is deterministic which means its "influence" can not be escaped.
Part of the problem, perhaps, is that you are drawing a significant distinction between behavior and "who you are". The reality of it is that you are what you choose to be, you behave how you choose to, ie you are what you behave as.


quote:

so, tell me, where does behavior come from? no where?
it's not a presumptuous theory. and science is inductive by nature.

Where does behavior come from? it can be influenced by many things, all of which you may lump into environment, but ultimately behavior comes from our choices. We do not choose in a vacuum, but as you yourself said, to argue that you can not break free from the influence of environment is rediculous.
The idea that you can determine the source and motivation of even one person's behavior is presumptuous, let alone the idea that you can determine the source of every person's behavior. At best you can study what people are prone to do, and based on that, state a probability. That is a huge distance from determining the source and cause of human choice.

Science is inductive by nature on one side, and deductive by nature on the other. On the "theoretical side" or exploratory side, science is inductive. It seeks to find general principles by using specific examples. However, when it discovers a general principle, it then becomes deductive (which might be called applied science).
In another sense, science uses hypothetical deduction to prove its inductive arguments. It takes an inductive argument "I've observed this phenomenon which may mean this" and proves it using deductive arguments.. "If this concept is really true, then in every circumstance it will necessarily mean that the following is also true" then that deductive argument is tested repeatedly.. if it ever proves false then the induction is bad.
The fact that science relies upon induction is one of science's greatest weaknesses. Inductive arguments are inherintly much weaker than deductive arguments. This is why the scope of science is ultimately limited, because its only really reliable in instances where its inductions can be deductively tested. Otherwise its not really verifiable or reliable.

quote:

so tell me your thoughts on classical conditioning?
a presumptuous theory or an actual behavior mechanism?

classical conditioning is based on studies of how methods of conditioning impact a creatures instinct. Can an instinctive response be induced by conditioning.. the answer is yes. However, to apply this to humans is presumptuous because humans are not simply creatures of instinct. We aren't pavlov's dogs.
Do human's have instinctive responses? yes, can those responses be conditioned, yes.. are we necessarily governed by them? no. Again, conditioning and instinct are only effective on people to the degree that people allow them to be. Most of the scientific community conisders humanity to be nothing more than an animal that has high reasoning capability. The fact is, we are something much more than that. That is why applying ideas like this to humanity are not only presumptuous, it borders on blasphemy. Its likening the image of God to a common animal.


quote:

I actually consider free-will a "presumptuous theory common in philosophy today." nearly everybody believes it. and yet there is not facts to back it up. atleast environment has decades of research to back it up. and it actually makes logical sense.

First of all, I'm not a complete free will advocate. I think God can and does determine things even including people's choices sometimes (note I say God, not environment).
However, to suggest that free will is a new idea while determinism is much older and backed by more research simply isn't correct. They've both been around and been argued in various religions and philosophies for thousands of years.
The free will side of the argument in recent years has suffered because the part of the church that embraces it has largely shunned intellectualism and scholarship. As a result most of the better educated people have been of the determinist view point. However, I reject the assertion that determinism is more logical. In my experience, the logical flaws with determinism are harder to see because they are deeper within the framework of the arguments, but they are also worse.
I was personaly reviewing both sides, within the church, trying to decide for myself which is more correct, I looked both at scripture and at the logical reasoning of both sides. I had to reject a good deal of the reasoning and teaching of the church that supports free will because it wasn't terribly good. However, the logical flaws within determinism and its doctrines and its relation to scripture forced me to the conclusion that it can not be true.

there are too many things in that debate to cover in a message board but consider this. Descarte said "cogito ergo sum" I think therefor I am... I may disagree with much of what descarte came up with, but he was correct in this. The fact that we think our own thoughts is the ultimate proof that we exist. If something does not think, it does not exist as a personal entity. From this view point determinism prooves that no one exists. If determinism is true then your actions are all determined by forces outside of you (either God or environment or both). Our actions, as all of us know, spring from our thoughts. We consider issues and feelings and they drive us to do what we do. Thus if our actions are determined by forces outside of us, then it must follow that our thoughts are also determined by forces outside of us, because it is easily observable from every person's experience that our actions follow from our thoughts. If our thoughts are determined by forces outside of us then we did not think them, any more than this computer is thinking these words, or any more than Aragorn thought the words Tolkien wrote for him, (you can insert any literary or movie character there). If we do not think our own thoughts, we are not personal entities. Hence we (as people) do not exist, we are simply characters in the imagination of something else.
Thats the kind of thing you end up with when you really believe determinism.. I don't consider that to be terribly reasonable.

quote:

[QUOTE]It assumes that you can know exactly how a given environment affects someone and determines their choices


yes, If I knew everything and could process that information. I could predict exactly what would happen, from the roll of a dice, to a person's actions. I mean, people's responses, etc can and have been graphed to a normal curve, to a huge success.
[/QUOTE]

What I meant by this is that in realiy, any one event in a given environment could have a thousand, or a million different possible impacts. The idea that environment determines action relies upon the assumption that any given evironment or event can produce only one given impact/result. Otherwise the entire idea becomes meaningless.

probability of a given action in a given circumstance can be determined simply by observing a large enough specicimen. Determening probability, however, doesn't determine cause, or motivation, and it doesn't mean you understand the causal relationship to probablity.

quote:

[QUOTE]and it also assumes that it can know people's inner thought


the environment doesn't know anything. it merely provides a situation which reacts with a person.
[/QUOTE]

I didn't mean the environment knows.. I meant, in order to have a reasonable basis to theorize that environment determines people's actions, you, the one making the theory, would have to be able to determine WHY people do what they do, That would require you to be able to know what people's thought process was, why they chose one thought over another.

quote:

[QUOTE]people are incapable of independant thought or choice.


um... yes, they are. independent choice? where does it come from? if it's not influenced by any factor, it's random. is our choices and thoughts independent of God? is the way our brain functions independent of the factors that surround it?

[/QUOTE]

God is sovereign, he can always influence, or outright make people's choices for them if he desires to do so. However, the same fact, that he is sovereign means he can delegate that ability, he can allow people to make their own choices. Determinists always argue that God's sovereignty demands he make everyone's choices, which in itself removes God's sovereignty. God is not held prisoner by his sovereignty. Sovereignty means He is able to do what he wants to do. They also argue that in allowing people to make their own choices, God would loose his sovereignty.. this also is a bad argument.. its not even true of human rulers, let alone God. Looking at any governmental arrangement tells us that a person with sovereign authority and power can delegate that power to another and yet not loose any of his own authority and power.. this is even more true of God who is the model upon which all power and authority are based.

Our choices are not made in a vacuum, but we make our choices. I obviously consider my environment when I make a choice.. I consider what I have been taught, what I have read, what I have experienced, My emotions play into it, wether I am hungry or full, everything like that impacts my decision, but when it gets right down to it, I make my decision. I am not my emotions, I'm not what I was taught, I'm not what I eat or don't eat, I'm not what people have done to me. I am what God has made me, and what I have chosen to be.


------------------
-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

[This message has been edited by simon_templar (edited November 29, 2004).]

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
it has more to do with desires.
say you were at a store and there was a red ball and blue ball, equal price, shape etc, just color variation.
you pick the blue ball. why? because you like the blue better. why? it could possibly be many reasons. your room, etc could have been blue and thus any positive experiences would be classically conditioned/linked with the color blue. maybe you were told that blue is a man color. remember when we were young, we'd choose blue because it's manly. maybe now it doesn't matter, but that classical conditioning is still in play.
maybe your buying the ball for a nephew, and he likes the color blue. so, you want to make him happy, so you go with blue. maybe you choose blue because it was closest to you. in that case, a lack of conditioning caused you to go with the most accessible option around.

now, there could be countless factors playing into this. and also note that the environment is not uniform, factors will counter eachother and conflict will occur. now, that conflict really creates an illusion of choice.


This is exactly my point.. there are thousands and millions of reasons why you might choose blue, why you might prefer blue, there are probably thousands of catagories of reasons we haven't even considered.. yet many people will simply say "its conditioning" or "its genetics" or whatever.. there is no real reason to believe any of those over the others. Its simply presumption.

------------------
-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
wow. what a post. sry, not enough time to go through it and reply it.

so... I'll stick to the nature of this thread and say:

quote:
europa is the best place in the galaxy; alpha Centuri is in another galaxy!!

Alpha Centauri is 4 lightyears away from us. it's our closet star. not only are we in the same galaxy, but the same star cluster.
so. Alpha Centauri is the best place in the galaxy.

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Soterion Studios

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
earth is the best place in the galaxy.

and the particular part of it my wife is at at any one given time the temporary best place on a more smaller scale.

b.t.w a very good post simon.

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

[This message has been edited by klumsy (edited November 29, 2004).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by ArchAngel:
it has more to do with desires.
say you were at a store and there was a red ball and blue ball, equal price, shape etc, just color variation.
you pick the blue ball. why? because you like the blue better. why? it could possibly be many reasons. your room, etc could have been blue and thus any positive experiences would be classically conditioned/linked with the color blue. maybe you were told that blue is a man color. remember when we were young, we'd choose blue because it's manly. maybe now it doesn't matter, but that classical conditioning is still in play.
maybe your buying the ball for a nephew, and he likes the color blue. so, you want to make him happy, so you go with blue. maybe you choose blue because it was closest to you. in that case, a lack of conditioning caused you to go with the most accessible option around.

now, there could be countless factors playing into this. and also note that the environment is not uniform, factors will counter eachother and conflict will occur. now, that conflict really creates an illusion of choice.


What happened to the red ball?

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I shall worship you all of my life. Till death do us together.

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
Im just posting here to be annoying!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo ChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadooChickadoo

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I'm Reformed, but I just don't know it yet.

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
[warning]chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo chickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoochickadoo [/warning]

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I'm Reformed, but I just don't know it yet.

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
Well, consider me warned - we've got a hyperactive chickadoo on our hands . Say, anybody know what the Army regs are for handling a chickadoo? (sorry, just watched too much M*A*S*H tonight)

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"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
HYPERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Edit> < I was in caps looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooock!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>

WHY WON'T MY SMILEY FACE SHOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?
------------------
I'm Reformed, but I just don't know it yet.


[This message has been edited by chickadoo (edited December 04, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by chickadoo (edited December 04, 2004).]

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
use a lowercase p

------------------
"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
techno music is da shiznit. listening to some right now.

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It is better to be silent and be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Abe Lincoln

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
NO NO NO! I can't create my own email server because I'll block the SMTP port!!

And now cobraa1.com isn't doing IMAP very well!

And PHP is slow also!

Grr, grr, grr! I think my host's CPU is being killed by some bad users .

I hope I don't have to find another host .

Anyways, I'm probably going to leave this forum for a couple of weeks to concentrate on my studies.

------------------
"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Leaving?! But your one of the coolest guys here!

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------------------------

This is the stupid useless thingy that is underneath my post... It is also NOT my name...

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
"Final Exams" isn't just a couple of words .

------------------
"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Darn... cant you drop out?

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------------------------

This is the stupid useless thingy that is underneath my post... It is also NOT my name...

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
If anybody sees me on during the school week before Friday, please rudely remind me to get back to studying . . .

  1. hmm
  2. hmm
  3. hmm
  4. hmm
  5. hmm
  6. hmm
  7. hmm
  8. hmm
  9. hmm
  10. hmm
  11. hmm
  12. hmm
  13. hmm
  14. hmm
  15. hmm
  16. hmm
  17. hmm
  18. hmm
  19. hmm
  20. hmm
  21. hmm
  22. hmm
  23. hmm
  24. hmm
  25. hmm
  26. hmm
  27. hmm
  28. What's after Z? Just checking the [ list=a ] BBCode .


------------------
"The very idea of freedom presupposes some objective moral law which overarches rulers and ruled alike." -- C. S. Lewis (1898 - 1963), "The Poison of Subjectivism" (from Christian Reflections; p. 108)

Switch Mayhem now available! Get it here
Codename: Roler - hoping to get more done over the holidays . . .

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited December 12, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by CobraA1 (edited December 12, 2004).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I wonder how hight that goes...

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------------------------

This is the stupid useless thingy that is underneath my post... It is also NOT my name...

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
HAD to bring this back >.>

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------------------------
Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
wonderful spam thread. Doug and carey, doug and carey, doug and carey. Oy.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Its not even annoying... imagine that

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------------------------
Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
i feel like spamming

------------------
Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Antonio: True, save means to live!

pigpen98

Member

Posts: 41
From: Indiana
Registered: 03-29-2006
lol...

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"kinda makes ya wanna treat me with more respect, huh?"

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZ...
oh, whozeewha?
Hi, i'm bored.

------------------
Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Antonio: True, save means to live!

Flamers23
Member

Posts: 30
From: gilmanton N.H U.S.A
Registered: 11-16-2004
This is still here??? *shudder*

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Im looking down the road of life and.....all i can see is CRAP!!!!

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
LOL!

------------------
Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Antonio: True, save means to live!

kiwee

Member

Posts: 578
From: oxfordshire, england
Registered: 04-17-2004
wow!
2004
and one of my brother's 4 posts! (he is Turkwoyz, he is well known on Blitzcoder IRC)
firemaker103

Member

Posts: 643
From:
Registered: 07-13-2005
So...
My friend has this Windows 98 Computer. He says it has internet on it, so I go on to show him a game. Little did I know how slow it was. So a proceeded to downloading lynx for him. It took 4 hours. How fast was that? 427 bytes per second... :|

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"Be nice to the nerds because later on, you'll be working for them" - Bill Gates

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
He has 98? WHAT IS HE THINKING? lol... i mean... gosh... THAT'S OLD! lol...

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In the stock market, you must buy high and sell low...Wait! That's not right!
--------------
Yes, I can be intelligent at times!!

ImpactMan

Member

Posts: 25
From: California
Registered: 03-13-2006
I have 98SE. Haha. I really need to get a new computer...

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-ImpactMan

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
death to linux!!! (J/K)

BTW crazyishone, I just might be driven off the forum for that!

and now I can't remember what I was going to say!
------------------
Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Antonio: True, save means to live!

[This message has been edited by chickadoo (edited April 17, 2006).]

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
haha. I personally like linux. I despise all the "M$ is t3h suck! i use linux. i @m 1337!". Alot of people see Linux as some sort of object of pride. Like if you can install it you're something special. I'll only go putting down another operating system when I know it inside and out, and can compare it to another OS that I know just as well.

It's lame.

I'd like to see somebody tell me I was a "n00b" because I use windows (as well as kubuntu linux)... It'd give me a chance to write a long, angry post. (with plenty of pictures :-p)

One last point though, the fact that any of us know what "operating system" means or how to install one puts us a peg above the rest of society. (in a good portion of the job market, it seems).


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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by chickadoo:
death to linux!!!

BTW crazyishone, I just might be driven off the forum for that!

and now I can't remember what I was going to say!


DETH2U!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

huh?! Im above society?! WEWT!!! I IZ TEH 1337!!!!!
I r0x0r5!!!!

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------------------------
Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

Chickadoo

Member

Posts: 75
From: marzukba, europa, milky way
Registered: 10-13-2004
Rofl. I think I understood the first part. Maybe you could translate when you are feeling more sane. BTW crazyishone, I was referring to your sig

------------------
Gonzalo: Here is everything advantageous to life.
Antonio: True, save means to live!

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Oh don't worry. They'll get us eventually. It'll be a dark and foggy evening, the good ol' boys drunk as ever and getting roudy. We'll be off talking about how blitz is a toy and arguing against the whole "linux supremacy attitude".. when suddenly a brick will smash through the window.

"Go away 'mean crazyishone', DETH2U Chikadoo!"

Then we'll hear the crowd, dare I say, the lynch mob. We'd be carted outside, seeing only the torches and the shrouds of our executioners.

The one called "lava" approaches, raises the scythe above his head... and sighs "Guys, what do you have against blitz? It's being used in alot of great games, and i think its a great learning tool."

So, it'd seem that things are turning for the better, but I never know when to shut up. "Because blitz is, and always has been a toy!"

The scythe falls with frightening speed, forever parting my brilliant mind from my body/

Don't mess with the Blitz Boys.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

[This message has been edited by crazyishone (edited April 12, 2006).]

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
Fix that picture!! He cut off your head, wheres the blood??

------------------
------------------------
Its one of those... Goop... things...
hotmail: Grafitiware@hotmail.com
Yahoo: namerobbedagian

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by crazyishone:
haha. I personally like linux. I despise all the "M$ is t3h suck! i use linux. i @m 1337!". Alot of people see Linux as some sort of object of pride. Like if you can install it you're something special. I'll only go putting down another operating system when I know it inside and out, and can compare it to another OS that I know just as well.

It's lame.

I'd like to see somebody tell me I was a "n00b" because I use windows (as well as kubuntu linux)... It'd give me a chance to write a long, angry post. (with plenty of pictures :-p)

One last point though, the fact that any of us know what "operating system" means or how to install one puts us a peg above the rest of society. (in a good portion of the job market, it seems).



There are so many Linux posers its unreal. I hate all that OS bashing rubbish, it gets so old. The true n00bs are those that bash windows all the time (Windows is great at making computing accessible) as well as other OS's.

The signs of a Linux poser....

1. They say Linux is an OS
2. They think that Linus Torvalds is great
3. They spend their lives bashing windows users
4. They can't have a conversation without at least mentioning Linux once
5. They float to the "in" distro, or the distro that makes them more leet

Of course there are far more signs, but this should give you a rough guide. Remember folks, computers are fun, they are made for exploration... try out as many os's as you can, learn new things and share it here. Don't think that Linux is the greatest thing to grace a computer, its not. Try BSD as well, just because it's not as popular doesn't mean it's not good.

Meh enough ramblings. I hate spamming and people boosting posts by having to reply to everything that appears on this forum, even if it's one word or completely useless.


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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Well here's a new experience for me.

I personally agree with everything you say. But I know that by saying so, I am incrimination myself as a poser. I have referred to linux as an operating system quite often. (I know that linux is just the kernel, eh. It depends on who I'm talking to. The the linux-using community, I would tell them I use kubuntu. To most everyone else I just say 'linux")

Eenyway, enough of my hypocrisy.

p.s., I believe it was D-SIPL who 1) told me what linux was 2) told me that if I didn't know how to partition my hard drive, I shouldnt even try to install a linux distro 3) informed me that calling linux an os was wrong. for those things I thank you. Helpfull.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Your not a poser. You have only ever been genuine and honest about your questions and have obviously taken things in. For that I salute you

I like people that ask questions and genuinly are interested

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i'm not even trying to mess with linux for at least another year. i have my general ed to take(i can barely stand it), and all my microsoft classes(working toward mcsa), then after that and hopefully a few other networking certs i'll up my skills in linux, because from a network administrator point of view linux has a lot of potential, plus having it on my skill list will make me more employable. my goal is to have a very broad knowledge in the it field, have no idea what kind of job i want exactly, something in the it management/network admin field, i'll see what happens a few years.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

proverbs 25:7
open rebuke is better than secret love.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

firemaker103

Member

Posts: 643
From:
Registered: 07-13-2005
Anybody seen this?
http://linspire.com/

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"Be nice to the nerds because later on, you'll be working for them" - Bill Gates

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by firemaker103:
Anybody seen this?
http://linspire.com/



Linspire was formerly Lindows. I think MS made them change the name. Not sure what it's like, i think it's meant as an easy intro to Linux. A lot like Mandrake.


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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
Should change it to Lista :P

[This message has been edited by Mack (edited April 24, 2006).]

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
so if Linux isn't an OS what do you call it?

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In the stock market, you must buy high and sell low...Wait! That's not right!
--------------
Yes, I can be intelligent at times!!

firemaker103

Member

Posts: 643
From:
Registered: 07-13-2005
Linux is a kernal.
GNU\Linux is a bare OS.
A distribution is a full OS.

I think...

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"Be nice to the nerds because later on, you'll be working for them" - Bill Gates

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
GNU\Linux usually refers to a distro whose "starting programs" are under the GNU General Public License. (I.E. open source and free of charge).

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

That_Guy

Member

Posts: 30
From: TN,USA
Registered: 02-26-2005
spam in the place where you live
spam in the place where you work
spam in the place where you post
now spam spam spam spam spam now
just spam the place where you am
go go go go forth with some spam
it comes in a can and your email
unless your email is gmail yeaha
gmail gmail gmail gmail gmail it
should be your email your email,
go gmail, go gmail, go gmail.com
today don't waste your life on e
mail, reading spam just get some
gmail at gmail.com spam goes bye
-bye, if you need an any account
,just send me a private message.

don't forget to tell me ur email

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
in the words of archangel:

what... the...?

lol.

[skip some] haha... oh man...

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
char name['B','u','d','d','B','o''y']

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
I sort of wonder when I see a forum using post counts to determine a ranking yet spam topics are allowed to happen...?

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"The only people on Earth who do not see Christ and His teachings as nonviolent are Christians". - Mahatma Gandhi

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
about that whole free will thingy that archangel mentioned... it's like in Jack London's White Fang, he talks about how the wolf (white fang) is clay, and how he gets formed into this monster. also he talks about how Beauty Smith is ugly (lol) and how he's clay and that he was shaped into a cowardly beast that picks on those lesser than him. it's a really good book, just finished re-reading it.

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
char name['B','u','d','d','B','o''y']

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Capn, the ranks don't matter. I don't think anybody cares about them. Most of the people with lives or programming to do only post once in a while anyway.

This is an old site... was supposed to get a nice "remodeling" but it never happened. Oh well.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
well, i have a life(sort of)... and i program... but i still post... and everybody knows that... lol...

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
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firemaker103

Member

Posts: 643
From:
Registered: 07-13-2005
I thiink we should do what CW does: Get rid of post counts. All they have over there are showcase counts, which show who really programs!

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"Be nice to the nerds because later on, you'll be working for them" - Bill Gates

crazyishone

Member

Posts: 1685
From:
Registered: 08-25-2004
Yeah thats a pretty good idea, but at CCN we don't have that whole spamming for post count, do we?

Maybe in the past, but I think everyone here is pretty smart about things.

But if and when they redo this site, it'd be a good time to see the post counts go.

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quit posting on CCN? nope. I havn't been driven off yet.

goop2

Member

Posts: 1059
From:
Registered: 06-30-2004
I actualy find it interesting to see date/post count, just to see how much someone has posted.

I guess you could call me a Linux poser
I like Linux
I hate Windows

I notice more and more everyday how bad Windows can be though. Ive had lots of problems with it lately, that would never happen in Linux.. No, seriusly!

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if(post = 1)
{
signature = 1;
animated_gif = 0;
}
end()

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
SPAM, YOU SAY?!








NUNS WITH GUNS
TIME TO RUN
buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
lol what the fish?

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
char name['B','u','d','d','B','o''y']

firemaker103

Member

Posts: 643
From:
Registered: 07-13-2005

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"Be nice to the nerds because later on, you'll be working for them" - Bill Gates

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
LOL!!

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
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CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
OH SNAP MY NUNS WITH GUNS PIC GOT DISABLED
TODAY'S THEME IS RANDOM NON-THEMENESS
CAUSE I WAS GONNA HAVE A THEME BUT COULDN'T FIND ENOUGH PICTURES FOR IT
WHAT U GONNA DO ABOUT IT HOLMES
WORD TO THE WISE: CHIMP








SPAM IS NOT JUST A PHASE
buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
lol... i know, cuz i

SS TTTTTTTTTTTTTTTT
S T
S T
S T
S T
S T
SS T
S T
S T
S T
S T
S T
SS T


IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
I L
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
L
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL... um, love it =D

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
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buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
dangnabbit it got messed up... it was a big s, a big t, and a big i and two big ll's...

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WARNING:

RADIOACTIVE IE AHEAD!
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#include <spazz.h>

int name()
{
char name['B','u','d','d','B','o''y']

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004

Her pal is fueled with "smart pills" that increase her concentration, focus, wakefulness and short-term memory.

Our minds would probably be a lot more quiet if we weren't so addicted to language.

This body holding me
Reminds me of my own mortality
Embrace this moment, remember
We are eternal; all this pain is an illusion

Webot trimple shifty glance who can save a monkey per day?
NOT I.

That is a fine Earth you might say... ROUND. (neg)

Cultivate your ki!

I'll see you on the other side!

spamspamspamspamspam to avoid homework
Super Angel Steve

Member

Posts: 212
From: Staten Island,Ny
Registered: 05-10-2006
I'm Gonna Work my way up the CCN Ranks and become a veteran member or better.


PORNO SUX,DEATH TO PORNO...sorry,i just felt like saying that.

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# 2 Cammy Fan

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
quote:
Don't mess with the Blitz Boys.

Yeah! Don't mess with us! Life to the Blitz Boys!

quote:

Get rid of post counts. All they have over there are showcase counts, which show who really programs!

I code! Just private programs, and without a file server. Besides, then there would be showcase spamming.

<entry>
.
</entry>

yeah. spam entries, not good.

quote:

I'm Gonna Work my way up the CCN Ranks and become a veteran member or better.

Umm, SAS[s], I've been here way shorter, its not that hard really. Some only become veteran/masters at 10,000 posts, not thats hard. And no, I didn't do it on spam.

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

buddboy

Member

Posts: 2220
From: New Albany, Indiana, U.S.
Registered: 10-08-2004
yeah. Mene-Mene's been here for what, a month? and he's already resurrecting old topics... like I used to. sometimes I still did. do I mean. of course it kind of is did, cuz they're old. whatever. bye.

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that post was really cool ^
|
[|=D) <---|| me

Mene-Mene

Member

Posts: 1398
From: Fort Wayne, IN, USA
Registered: 10-23-2006
Two months! :Sticks chin out:

October (Middle) November, December (Middle). I can count! Wait 1, 2, 4, 8, 16, 32, 64, 128...

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MM out-
Thought travels much faster than sound, it is better to think something twice, and say it once, than to think something once, and have to say it twice.
"Frogs and Fauns! The tournament!" - Professor Winneynoodle/HanClinto

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/ubb-cgi/postdisplay.cgi?forum=Forum2&topic=001092