General Discussions

Music/ICP – WOODY

WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
I have been told by many people that the band ICP or Insane Clown Posse is very evil and bad to listen to. I have been a big fan of them my whole life. They are unlike many other bands, and seem to like their fans. They sometimes even consider fans as family. I know that don't always talk about the best things, but there is alot of truth about the world at least in my eyes in their lyrics. It seems to me that they also hate the devil. Then in their last joker card, they talk about GOD and going to Shangri-La (which is what they call heaven). They even said that they have always been about GOD, and hate the Devil. Their new CD has confused me on what they are really all about. Does anyone listen to them and/or have any input for me. Also I was wondering what OS is better for gaming Windows XP Pro, or 2000 Pro.

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Justin

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
I've never listened to ICP, but I have listened to other music that can be described in similar terms. But that alone doesn't make it right to listen to.
The truth is that any group can talk about a concept of God and a concept of Heaven. What matters is that what they say is truth according to scripture. If someone's idea of Heaven is not based on what the Bible says about it, then that indicates a fallacy in their beliefs. And likewise about God.
Scripture is the authority on the truth of God. Anything that seems, sounds, looks or acts like what it claims but doesn't match up 100% is not true with scripture, and therefore is not of God.
Be careful what you allow to make a presence in your life.
Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
I have listoned to them in my youth and seen their vidios. There is a scripture in the bible...

Matthew 6:24 - No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and will love the other, or he will hold to the one and despise the other. Ye cannot serve God and mammon.

Colossians 3:8 - But now put them all away: anger, wrath, malice, slander, and foul talk from your mouth.

So to be put simply ICP may clame are God kinda people but they have nudity in there vidios, cant controle their mouths, they do not lead people to Christ... so in short no they are not Christians or godly people and thus a bad influnce on your life. Ask yourself 'Are they uplifting God/Jesus or are they simply the fools that will find themselfs on the last day saying "Lord Lord"?'

Here is your proff if you need it.

Matthew 7:21 "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

It is your walk and life and up to you but God deffinitly had a lot to say about people like ICP.

Hope you find peace about this.
~Angel~

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
quote:

Also I was wondering what OS is better for gaming Windows XP Pro, or 2000 Pro.

Although I doubt it matters much if you have the right drivers, XP would be my choice. It's a later version of Windows, and it represents a sort of merging of business and personal use. XP is the latest and greatest (until longhorn comes out).

. . . but I don't see why 2000 shouldn't work, not much different as far as I can tell. Just avoid NT, and you should be fine. Early versions of NT didn't work with DirectX.

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Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
I heard that ICP weren't good to listen to but I don't know anything about them myself so I can't comment. If I come across anything I'll let you know.
Wacko4X

Member

Posts: 92
From: Bellvue, WA, USA
Registered: 08-21-2002
I personally dislike Windows XP or Win 2k (for gaming).
To me, XP, though it has better integration for games than Win 2k, is one dang resource hog. Dont get me wrong, I like both XP and Win 2k (in different respects) but for gaming I would go Windows 98 SE

Anyone disagree with me?

GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
I'd rather spend on my time playing games than fixing Win98's problems or having it crash on me.

Of course, with my PC it being a "resource hog" isn't a problem.

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public class Politician extends Man {public void doSomething() throws UnreasonableException {throw new UnreasonableException(convenientExcuse);}}

BKewl

Member

Posts: 144
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: 07-10-2002
I had class with someone who listened to ICP my sophomore year of high school, and some people in my old church listened to them. I have absolutely no doubt that you shouldn't listen to them. Normally, that would sound legalistic and I would beware of my own advice, but having listened to some of their stuff and heard the concepts and stuff that go on in their music, I know for a fact that it's not edifying.

A vast majority of their songs consist of horrible acts of violence (explicitly described, of course), horrible sexual acts, or a combination of both. It doesn't help that they seem to treat it jokingly (not that it'd be okay if they were serious). Plus, they probably set some kind of record for use of the F-word.

Remember the programming principle: Garbage in, garbage out.

Above all else, guard your heart, for it is the wellspring of life. Proverbs 4:23

zookey

Member

Posts: 1902
From: Great Falls, Montana, USA
Registered: 04-28-2002
Can't say much about ICP--------cept I think they did a parody of Eminiem a few years back I found slightly amusing

But with gaming systems----my parents bought me a Laptop for graduating that had XP on it----after 3 years I was reading to throw the thing through a window and smash it to pieces because XP has so many hick ups and glitches working with older games *including one of my personal favs, Shogo Mobile Armor Division* So...when I bought my new PC earlier this year (from the awesome www.progresssystemsinc.com --the christian alienware practically) I went with Win 2k and have not looked back---I love it and it has no problems---although I never could get WakeBoarding Unleashed With Sean Murray to work-------------but one game out of all the PC ones I have is not so bad ---------but really....the best gaming oS????

[BOLD] PLAYSTATION 2 [/BOLD]

THERE I SAID IT!!!!!! ALL YOU GUYS ARE WONDERING ABOUT COMPATABILITY ISSUES AMONG 98 XP and 2K BUT MY PS2 ROCKS THE WORLD BABY WORLD DOMINATION IS SONYS BUSINESS AND BUSINESS IS SOOOOOOOOO GOOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Ignorance is bad, if you have it you will not have a good time.

Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
I had ME for a few years and never had any problems with it. It cud play older games and newer games without a hint of problem... Sure Yuri's Revenge took 10 mins to load but I think that was more to do with my PC than the OS
WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
Not sure if you will all read this seeing how you have already replied, but I have done a lil homework on ICP. After they put out their last cd, they have changed some. Like they said that now they don't use just blank and white, but instead bright colors for facepaint. "It is because we now have finished what we have promised our fans, and can now do what we please. We also how know that GOD is the one who had got us where we are, and its all because of him," said Violent J. They also said that they are done with all the dissing of people, MTV, and many other things. I know that their lyrics are not good, but I'm waiting to see what thier next cd will be like, now that they have "changed."

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Justin

Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
Revelation 3:16 - So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.

That was seid to a church- becuase it was filled with people who proclamed God but had their hearts far from Him. Many bands mention God but have nothing to do with Him. My wife used to listion to Shinia Twain because she said 'God bless all my fans' or some crap like that. My wife tried to prove to me how great her music was. As dearly as I love her she was wrong. I let her play her music and sing with it- and without even a thought or hesitation she began to sing about going out and shaking her butt for hot guys and that she didn't give a d@m about anything.

I know one band that has changed. Alive Cooper's new cd DragonTown is excelent. It actuly ruffly covers what we are talking about now. People in the church who really dont know God and end up in hell. 'The road to hell is litterd with nice guys with good intentions- but once your there- your there- its much to late.' quote from one of the songs.

~Angel~

Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
My opinion on lukewarmness.

Jesus seems to take lukewarmness pretty seriously.... Ok VERY seriously. I think the key to understanding what lukewarmness is, is understanding Jesus. What was the one thing he emphasised more than anything else?

LOVE.

Love your neighbour, love fulfils the law. Stuff like that. Whats the first fruit of the spirit? Love.

So my idea is that lukewarmness isn't in compromise or zeal, it's indifference in love.

Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
Well what I meant by my statment was simply that your first love should be God. By loving Him a long list of things come into play. Zeal is one of those things. To me zeal means to be exited about or desprit to uphold (something like that).

~Angel~

ICPTHYCARNIVAL
Junior Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: 03-09-2004
HEY YALL I AM 18 YEARS OLD AND I GO TO CHURCH AND I AM A HUGE FAN OF ICP AND I KNOW THAT THEY FOLLOW GOD I KNOW ONE OF THEM PERSONALLY AND IF YOUR EVER READIN REVELATIONS IN THE BIBLE AGAIN KEEP SPECIAL WATCH OUT FOR A CHAPTER WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT 2 PROPHETS THAT SPIT FIRE FROM THERE MOUTHS AND BLOWS THE 7TH HORN AND GODS ARMY WILL AROSE
THE 144,000 I BEILEVE THE 2 PROPHETS ARE JOE AND JOEY (ICP) THE "FIRE" IS THERE LYRICS THEY SPIT OUT THERE MOUTH NOT ACTUALLY FIRE
AND THEY BLOW THE 7TH HORN THEY ARE PUTTIN OUT 6 JOKERS CARDS AND THE LAST ONE HAS 2 PARTS WHICH MAKES THAT 7 I BEILEVE THEY ARE PROPHETS OF GOD SEND BY GOD TO DRAWN IN THE PPL THAT WOULDNT HEAR OF HIM ANY OTHER WAY OTHER T THAN THREW THE WORDS OF CLOWNS SOMETHIGN THAT MANY PPL CAN RELATE TO THERE IS LYRICS ALL THREW THERE MUSCI IN REFERENCE TO GOD MY FAVORITE LYRICS ARE WELL OK EVERYONE READIN THIS DO ME A FAVOR AND LO0OK UP LYRICS FOR PASS ME BY THEY ARE TALKIN BOUT HEAVEN THE WHOLE SONG AND BEFORE YOU LOOOK THAT UP LOOK UP THY UNVIELING IT SAYS "TRUTH IS WE FOLLOW GOD WEVE ALWAYS BEEN BEHIND HIM" WHY WOULD MILLIONIRES RISK THERE INTIRE CARREER AND ALL THEY GOT ON THERE MUSIC WITH SOMETHIGN THEY DONT MEAN MAKE SINCE YET THEY RISKED ALL THERE FAME TO LET PPL KNOW ABOUT GOD WELL IVE GOT MORE TO SAY BUT I MUST GO TO BED
WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
Hey as far as I can tell from their web-site and other sites, also from interviews their will be no 2nd part of the joker card.

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Justin

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by ICPTHYCARNIVAL:
HEY YALL I AM 18 YEARS OLD AND I GO TO CHURCH AND I AM A HUGE FAN OF ICP AND I KNOW THAT THEY FOLLOW GOD I KNOW ONE OF THEM PERSONALLY AND IF YOUR EVER READIN REVELATIONS IN THE BIBLE AGAIN KEEP SPECIAL WATCH OUT FOR A CHAPTER WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT 2 PROPHETS THAT SPIT FIRE FROM THERE MOUTHS AND BLOWS THE 7TH HORN AND GODS ARMY WILL AROSE
THE 144,000 I BEILEVE THE 2 PROPHETS ARE JOE AND JOEY (ICP) THE "FIRE" IS THERE LYRICS THEY SPIT OUT THERE MOUTH NOT ACTUALLY FIRE
AND THEY BLOW THE 7TH HORN THEY ARE PUTTIN OUT 6 JOKERS CARDS AND THE LAST ONE HAS 2 PARTS WHICH MAKES THAT 7 I BEILEVE THEY ARE PROPHETS OF GOD SEND BY GOD TO DRAWN IN THE PPL THAT WOULDNT HEAR OF HIM ANY OTHER WAY OTHER T THAN THREW THE WORDS OF CLOWNS SOMETHIGN THAT MANY PPL CAN RELATE TO THERE IS LYRICS ALL THREW THERE MUSCI IN REFERENCE TO GOD MY FAVORITE LYRICS ARE WELL OK EVERYONE READIN THIS DO ME A FAVOR AND LO0OK UP LYRICS FOR PASS ME BY THEY ARE TALKIN BOUT HEAVEN THE WHOLE SONG AND BEFORE YOU LOOOK THAT UP LOOK UP THY UNVIELING IT SAYS "TRUTH IS WE FOLLOW GOD WEVE ALWAYS BEEN BEHIND HIM" WHY WOULD MILLIONIRES RISK THERE INTIRE CARREER AND ALL THEY GOT ON THERE MUSIC WITH SOMETHIGN THEY DONT MEAN MAKE SINCE YET THEY RISKED ALL THERE FAME TO LET PPL KNOW ABOUT GOD WELL IVE GOT MORE TO SAY BUT I MUST GO TO BED


Prophets sent by God to preach the gospel, by producing songs with obscene lyrics... ok i've heard it all now!

I'm a cut your daddy's neck, you little ****** nerd
I don't give a *** where you're from boy
So don't tell me cuz I don't give a ****
It's all about what's going on in your head
Do or don't you care about the seventeen dead

A snippet of ICP lyrics. Says it all really!

--D-SIPL


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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Seems to me - based solely on the conversation at hand - that there is an element of confusion over who believes in whom. I'm just going to make this statement and let it stand as is:
Satan knows who God (YHWH) is, but in his own mind he wants to be the supreme god and pretends to be that god to those who are ignorant of the truth. You can say you believe in God (YHWH) or you can say you believe in god - there is a big difference in meaning even though the words sound the same and are spelled the same. The truth is that someone filled with God (YHWH) will overflow with the attributes of the character of God (YHWH). If you can't distinguish the Christian from the non-Christian, who is wrong in their behavior?
Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
^ on top of what Nfektious wrote.

The Biblical word believe doesn't just mean 'accept the existence of' but it's a belief you ACT upon.

If you believe in God (YHWH) and ACT on this belief you will like ^ said you "will overflow with the attributes of the character of God (YHWH)."

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
listen up! ok, I have been a juggalo (follower of ICP) for the past two years. ok, and I have been a christan the past 10 years of my life. now, I wont say that ICP has lifted me up in anyway, AND i wont say that they have brought me down in anyway! when I listen to them sing about juggalos, and talk about unity... I relate it to my walk with other christans. when I hear each joker card, I relize that they have a deeper meaning. I suggest to all you haters that you at LEAST listen to "The Unvailing" on the album "The Wraith" before you condem them. they say on the CD that they belive in God, and they dont care what the juggalos/ettes think of them because of it! another point, is that while they bring this message of unity through rap, they also sing subliminaly and backwards CHRISTIAN lyrics.
ok my last point. Jesus said to be friends with sinners, and modled HIMSELF as doing JUST that! He was friends with prostitutes, tax-colecters, and STRIGHT OUT SINNERS! so why is a juggalo any differant. we are all people in this race for life, why not HELP the juggalos? dont condem them!

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Only God can judge me.

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by ICPTHYCARNIVAL:
[b]HEY YALL I AM 18 YEARS OLD AND I GO TO CHURCH AND I AM A HUGE FAN OF ICP AND I KNOW THAT THEY FOLLOW GOD I KNOW ONE OF THEM PERSONALLY AND IF YOUR EVER READIN REVELATIONS IN THE BIBLE AGAIN KEEP SPECIAL WATCH OUT FOR A CHAPTER WHERE THEY TALK ABOUT 2 PROPHETS THAT SPIT FIRE FROM THERE MOUTHS AND BLOWS THE 7TH HORN AND GODS ARMY WILL AROSE
THE 144,000 I BEILEVE THE 2 PROPHETS ARE JOE AND JOEY (ICP) THE "FIRE" IS THERE LYRICS THEY SPIT OUT THERE MOUTH NOT ACTUALLY FIRE
AND THEY BLOW THE 7TH HORN THEY ARE PUTTIN OUT 6 JOKERS CARDS AND THE LAST ONE HAS 2 PARTS WHICH MAKES THAT 7 I BEILEVE THEY ARE PROPHETS OF GOD SEND BY GOD TO DRAWN IN THE PPL THAT WOULDNT HEAR OF HIM ANY OTHER WAY OTHER T THAN THREW THE WORDS OF CLOWNS SOMETHIGN THAT MANY PPL CAN RELATE TO THERE IS LYRICS ALL THREW THERE MUSCI IN REFERENCE TO GOD MY FAVORITE LYRICS ARE WELL OK EVERYONE READIN THIS DO ME A FAVOR AND LO0OK UP LYRICS FOR PASS ME BY THEY ARE TALKIN BOUT HEAVEN THE WHOLE SONG AND BEFORE YOU LOOOK THAT UP LOOK UP THY UNVIELING IT SAYS "TRUTH IS WE FOLLOW GOD WEVE ALWAYS BEEN BEHIND HIM" WHY WOULD MILLIONIRES RISK THERE INTIRE CARREER AND ALL THEY GOT ON THERE MUSIC WITH SOMETHIGN THEY DONT MEAN MAKE SINCE YET THEY RISKED ALL THERE FAME TO LET PPL KNOW ABOUT GOD WELL IVE GOT MORE TO SAY BUT I MUST GO TO BED


Prophets sent by God to preach the gospel, by producing songs with obscene lyrics... ok i've heard it all now!

I'm a cut your daddy's neck, you little ****** nerd
I don't give a *** where you're from boy
So don't tell me cuz I don't give a ****
It's all about what's going on in your head
Do or don't you care about the seventeen dead

A snippet of ICP lyrics. Says it all really!

--D-SIPL


[/B][/QUOTE]

hahaha... thanks for proving my point!
"It's all about what's going on in your head
Do or don't you care about the seventeen dead"
they are asking you! dont you care? DONT YOU CARE? ICP are people too! JUST LIKE YOU! in God's eyes ALL sin is the same! so you are NO BETTER than ICP! DONT YOU CARE?

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Only God can judge me.

[This message has been edited by kramit (edited March 30, 2004).]

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
hey ONE LAST THING!!! this is in a reply to D-SIPL. who is to say that ICP isn't the two prophets mentiond in Revalations?! who are you to judge? what if they are the prophets, and the pope the anti-christ??? I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying YOU DONT KNOW! they very well could be! and untill you are God (witch will never happen) I dont think you have any right to judge anyone!

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Only God can judge me.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i grant you we're not GOD, and never will even come close. but the 2 men of GOD spoken of in revelations will be walking a little holier than most of us here on earth. i'm sure they'll also be bold when it comes to the word of GOD, and right and wrong...that's why they will be killed. i use to own an icp cd, it's far from CHRISTian. that's like dmx trying to pray after he get's done singing about pamela, and angela...and so on and so forth. you're either for GOD, or against GOD. everybody starts out lost, and no man can judge, but your fruits are open to all.
nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
K -
I am amazed at your passion and energy. I think it is unfortunate, though, that your energy and passion are geared toward ICP. Because a person does not listen to a music group you find such great favor with does not mean we hate them. You called many of us "haters". Why? On what basis? Our opinion? It is your opinion just as well that ICP is a "good" thing. You stated they didn't help your Christian relationship, positively or negatively. Does that mean then that it is a fruitless activity? Wouldn't your energy and passion be better invested in growing more in the knowledge and understanding of living as Christ taught us, rather than pursuing debate over a music group? I don't hate you, nor do I hate ICP. I am speaking the facts as you have laid them out before us. If you sincerely believe I have any issues with you or ICP, you need to consider your own ways and ponder what is in your heart. If ICP is keeping you in a stagnant relationship with God, it is a stumbling block for you. I truly hope you understand what I have said and the spirit I have said it with.

God bless,
N

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
quote:
Originally posted by kramit:
hey ONE LAST THING!!! this is in a reply to D-SIPL. who is to say that ICP isn't the two prophets mentiond in Revalations?! who are you to judge? what if they are the prophets, and the pope the anti-christ??? I'm not saying he is, I'm just saying YOU DONT KNOW! they very well could be! and untill you are God (witch will never happen) I dont think you have any right to judge anyone!



I think I'll take D-SIPL's judgement ANY DAY Kramit

Your post is just a laugh but I'll give you one thing, it's WAY BETTER than newbie member ICPTHYCARNIVAL

yeah his first post just kinda caps it all don't it?

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by c h i e f y:

I think I'll take D-SIPL's judgement ANY DAY Kramit

Your post is just a laugh but I'll give you one thing, it's WAY BETTER than newbie member ICPTHYCARNIVAL

yeah his first post just kinda caps it all don't it?


yeah! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! your REAL funny! go ahead and laugh, its not like I care what you think of me. oh.. wait, I'm sorry I had meaning in my post, that may have been against your thoughts, but thanks for LAUGHING at me, instead of giving me YOUR THOUGHTS on the situation! listen, if your trying to win any arguments here... i think you might want to actually POST your arguments not just tell someone they're an idiot. oh, oh, oh! thats right you only want D-SIPL's judgement, eh? sorry, I thought this was a message bored with a TOPIC!

ok... how about acutally READING my posts? it might help! love ya man! byebye

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Only God can judge me.

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by nfektious:
K -
I am amazed at your passion and energy. I think it is unfortunate, though, that your energy and passion are geared toward ICP. Because a person does not listen to a music group you find such great favor with does not mean we hate them. You called many of us "haters". Why? On what basis? Our opinion? It is your opinion just as well that ICP is a "good" thing. You stated they didn't help your Christian relationship, positively or negatively. Does that mean then that it is a fruitless activity? Wouldn't your energy and passion be better invested in growing more in the knowledge and understanding of living as Christ taught us, rather than pursuing debate over a music group? I don't hate you, nor do I hate ICP. I am speaking the facts as you have laid them out before us. If you sincerely believe I have any issues with you or ICP, you need to consider your own ways and ponder what is in your heart. If ICP is keeping you in a stagnant relationship with God, it is a stumbling block for you. I truly hope you understand what I have said and the spirit I have said it with.

God bless,
N


thank you... will conciter!

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Only God can judge me.

WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
WOW guys and girls, I never meant to start an argument, just get thoughts from other people. I guess an argument isn't a bad thing, as long as no one makes fun of each other or puts someone down just cause of their thoughts.

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Justin

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by kramit:
yeah! HAHAHAHAHA!!!! your REAL funny! go ahead and laugh, its not like I care what you think of me. oh.. wait, I'm sorry I had meaning in my post, that may have been against your thoughts, but thanks for LAUGHING at me, instead of giving me YOUR THOUGHTS on the situation! listen, if your trying to win any arguments here... i think you might want to actually POST your arguments not just tell someone they're an idiot. oh, oh, oh! thats right you only want D-SIPL's judgement, eh? sorry, I thought this was a message bored with a TOPIC!

ok... how about acutally READING my posts? it might help! love ya man! byebye



Why are you so quick to anger mate? Have you ever bought a praise and worship CD, put it in your cd player and from the beginning heards swearing all the way through? Maybe at your church you swear quite liberally?

Would you listen to ICP if Jesus was in the room with you? I know i wouldn't. If you would then, i would seriously take a look at your relationship with God. I'm not judging you, as that is wrong, i'm just saying what i believe.

Maybe your right, maybe ICP are the Revelation prophets, or maybe just as plausible it could be two of the Teletubbies?? hmmm...

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
teletubbies...let's not even go there...
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
teletubbies...let's not even go there...


Well ICP lets not even go there!!!!

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Why are you so quick to anger mate? Have you ever bought a praise and worship CD, put it in your cd player and from the beginning heards swearing all the way through? Maybe at your church you swear quite liberally?

Would you listen to ICP if Jesus was in the room with you? I know i wouldn't. If you would then, i would seriously take a look at your relationship with God. I'm not judging you, as that is wrong, i'm just saying what i believe.

Maybe your right, maybe ICP are the Revelation prophets, or maybe just as plausible it could be two of the Teletubbies?? hmmm...

--D-SIPL
[/B]



ok, I think that if Jesus was in the room with me, then I wouldnt play it for Him, I would sing it myself. now, dont take that the wrong way... I mean, if I'm going to do anything for Him, I would do it myself. anyone could just play music for Jesus, thats why YOU sing priase, right? ok, but if what you asking is would I Listen to it, insted of play it FOR Him. than I probly would... because heres why... because Jesus is here with me all the time anyway, right? so if I could PHYSICALLY see Him, that SHOULDENT change who I am. in theroy I am listening to it while Hes here anyway. you DONT want to hide anything from Jesus...

ok... one thing, if I sounded mad, I'm sorry. I just wanted to get my point across. and also, that was my point MAYBE THE TELETUBIES ARE THE PROPHETTS!! we dont know, and thats what I wanted to get across... thanks.. one last statement, look, just because I may have differant thoughts and belifes, doesn't mean I'm a horrable person. and it doesnt mean I think you are, or hate you. we're all christians here (I'm asuming) so this is just a discusion, and I'm sorry if I made it into a fight or whatever. I just displayed my thoughts, then became overwhelmd with people telling me I'm wrong and stuff, but thats what I expected... so no hard feelings, you guys are great! but sorry guys, i like ICP.

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Only God can judge me.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by kramit:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by D-SIPL:
Why are you so quick to anger mate? Have you ever bought a praise and worship CD, put it in your cd player and from the beginning heards swearing all the way through? Maybe at your church you swear quite liberally?

Would you listen to ICP if Jesus was in the room with you? I know i wouldn't. If you would then, i would seriously take a look at your relationship with God. I'm not judging you, as that is wrong, i'm just saying what i believe.

Maybe your right, maybe ICP are the Revelation prophets, or maybe just as plausible it could be two of the Teletubbies?? hmmm...

--D-SIPL

ok, I think that if Jesus was in the room with me, then I wouldnt play it for Him, I would sing it myself. now, dont take that the wrong way... I mean, if I'm going to do anything for Him, I would do it myself. anyone could just play music for Jesus, thats why YOU sing priase, right? ok, but if what you asking is would I Listen to it, insted of play it FOR Him. than I probly would... because heres why... because Jesus is here with me all the time anyway, right? so if I could PHYSICALLY see Him, that SHOULDENT change who I am. in theroy I am listening to it while Hes here anyway. you DONT want to hide anything from Jesus...

ok... one thing, if I sounded mad, I'm sorry. I just wanted to get my point across. and also, that was my point MAYBE THE TELETUBIES ARE THE PROPHETTS!! we dont know, and thats what I wanted to get across... thanks.. one last statement, look, just because I may have differant thoughts and belifes, doesn't mean I'm a horrable person. and it doesnt mean I think you are, or hate you. we're all christians here (I'm asuming) so this is just a discusion, and I'm sorry if I made it into a fight or whatever. I just displayed my thoughts, then became overwhelmd with people telling me I'm wrong and stuff, but thats what I expected... so no hard feelings, you guys are great! but sorry guys, i like ICP.



Thats really humble of you Kramit. I'm not dissing you at all Kramit, just i was in the same situation as you, just i used to listen to 2pac and Eminem. Then i got into metal and listened to Slipknot a lot, Mushroom head, Taproot all those kind of bands. The problem i found was that i started to get angry, i would swear a lot, and i could feel a change inside.

I then came back to the Lord, you can find my testimony on this site somewhere. I started listening to more praise and worship, people like Tim Hughes, Matt Redman even some of my old delerious cd's. Eventually i found some really cool bands that replaced my old stuff, like disciple... they gotta kind of slipknot sound going on, also Blindside.

Now i do still have secular cd's, i absolutely love Punk/Ska, so i listen to Millencolin, Less than Jake, Anti-Flag, Strung Out. A few of there songs have swearing in it, so i copy the songs to my computer, delete the songs with swearing and then re-burn the cd. May sound crazy, but it keeps my mind pure. I've always agreed (after my previous exerience with music) that what goes in comes out.

Now it's up to you mate, if you feel comfortable playing it, then maybe just pray about it, seriously ask God if it's something he wants you to listen to. If you feel he is saying yes, then thats cool. If when you listen to it the next time, you feel that it doesn't feel the same anymore, i believe that is God telling you not to listen to it anymore.

One final thing, i'm not a religious fuddy duddy, im 19 years old. So please take in what i've just said i know its a lot.

Take care Kramit. Love in Christ bro.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

[This message has been edited by D-SIPL (edited April 01, 2004).]

[This message has been edited by D-SIPL (edited April 01, 2004).]

WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
Hey D-SIPL you might want to check out MxPx, NOFX, and PennyWise. They are some of the better Punk bands I think. The ones I don't like are like Sum 41, and nother bands like that. They says they are punk, but there not underground. Yes I have prayed about ICP and so far it has seems ok to me. Also I don't think the what comes in goes out is true. At least not for everyone. ICP also seems to calm me down when I'm mad or in a bad mood.

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Justin

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
has anyone ever read the scripture that says to abstain from all appearance of evil? just a question...
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by WOODY:
Hey D-SIPL you might want to check out MxPx, NOFX, and PennyWise. They are some of the better Punk bands I think. The ones I don't like are like Sum 41, and nother bands like that. They says they are punk, but there not underground. Yes I have prayed about ICP and so far it has seems ok to me. Also I don't think the what comes in goes out is true. At least not for everyone. ICP also seems to calm me down when I'm mad or in a bad mood.


Yeh i listen to NoFX and Pennywise a lot. Just forgot to mention them. Sum41 aren't really punk, more teeny boppin'punk wannabe trash. I also like some stuff by Bad Religion, but have to watch some of their songs.

Pump up the Valium! heh.

--D-SIPL


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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

kramit

Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: dontyouwishyouknew/FL/USA
Registered: 03-30-2004
hahaha... hey guys, I heard you talken about this and figured, i would give ya my take. to tell you the HONEST truth, I CANNOT STAND RAP. but yet ICP and all of phychopathic records is really awsome. I am at heart I guess a emo/punk/ska/scremo music loving kid. here's a list of my FAVORITE bands of all time...
ICP, FIVE IRON FRENZY!!, mxpx, blindside, Relient K, Agent Felinx, Dead Poetic, Audio Adrenaline... and some others...
ok... well... bye!

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Only God can judge me.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
Originally posted by kramit:
hahaha... hey guys, I heard you talken about this and figured, i would give ya my take. to tell you the HONEST truth, I CANNOT STAND RAP. but yet ICP and all of phychopathic records is really awsome. I am at heart I guess a emo/punk/ska/scremo music loving kid. here's a list of my FAVORITE bands of all time...
ICP, FIVE IRON FRENZY!!, mxpx, blindside, Relient K, Agent Felinx, Dead Poetic, Audio Adrenaline... and some others...
ok... well... bye!


Some cool bands there. Audio Adrenaline, weren't they made up of former Rage against the Machine members?

Never heard of mxpx though? hmm... will take a look.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

BKewl

Member

Posts: 144
From: St. Charles, MO, USA
Registered: 07-10-2002
Whoa there D-SIPL lol. I do believe you're thinking Audio Slave (maybe?). Audio Adrenaline's a Christian rock band that's been around for something like a decade. MxPx is a punk band...used to be on Tooth and Nail. They're Christians, but they don't really sing about anything specific, as you know how pop-punk bands go.

[edit]spelled D-SIPL wrong (oops!)[\edit]

[This message has been edited by BKewl (edited April 03, 2004).]

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Yeh sorry that was Audio Slave. Might have to check MxPx out. Have found some cool bands whilst i've been in the states, like Falling Up, their cool, and i want to get Kutless's new album.

Oh yeh and i was able to get the Barenaked Ladies greatest hits album, which i love. Shame about the name, but their safe imo.

Also saw the Strung Out live album.... *drools*.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

POGO

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Indiana,USA
Registered: 11-02-2004
I am 29 years old and a JUGGALO. I can say that The message behind and sometimes hidden in I.C.P.'s music has brought me closer to The heavenly Father GOD. Jesus was considered a scrub meaning he didn't fit in with the mainstream and was hunted down and crussified for being different and teaching people about the truth, yet he overcame class barriers and led a multitude to salvation.The Insane Clown Posse does not fit in with the mainstream,and they are condemned and hated for what they speak even tho most don't try and listen to their words. I am living proof that ICP has helped me find my saviour Jesus Christ and in doing that does that make ICP evil? I am not ashamed to say that I am a true Follower/Believer in Our Heavenly Father. And as for the word Shangri-la it means Paradise. and Heaven is Paradise. Judge not lest ye be judged. M.C.L.&M.J.L.

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Now we look to the sky for the light and truth
I'll see you again in the morning

[This message has been edited by POGO (edited November 02, 2004).]

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I find it ok to judge Insane Clown Posse, because i'm more then happy for Jesus to judge me the same way. I could never condone listening to music with swearing in it. I wouldn't want someone to come into my house and start swearing, so i wouldn't let them on my stereo.

They may be misfits, i always was a considered a misfit and a non-conformist and thats great, i've carried that over to my walk with God. I'm not embarassed to get on my face before God in front of everyone. I worship Him with all i got because He is God Almighty.

If ICP led you to God thats great also, God can you use all tools. Even turn all things round to good. I just know i would never listen to their obscene lyrics. Maybe some of the songs are ok? But going by what i've heard i would never give them the time of day.

Oh yeh i checked MxPx out, their old stuff seems really cool, but their new stuff is a bit dodgy. Relient K are pretty god though.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
Originally posted by kramit:
hahaha... hey guys, I heard you talken about this and figured, i would give ya my take. to tell you the HONEST truth, I CANNOT STAND RAP. but yet ICP and all of phychopathic records is really awsome. I am at heart I guess a emo/punk/ska/scremo music loving kid. here's a list of my FAVORITE bands of all time...
ICP, FIVE IRON FRENZY!!, mxpx, blindside, Relient K, Agent Felinx, Dead Poetic, Audio Adrenaline... and some others...
ok... well... bye!

Well maybe why you might like anything by phychopathic records, is because they are ot rap. I mean yea sure there is some rap, but they mix it with every else to make their won style, aka Horrocore

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Justin

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004

I've never been an ICP fan, for a number of reasons, but I have heard a good deal of their music because I used to live (until about a month ago) with a guy who was a big fan of ICP.
The first point I would like to make is that wether or not ICP believe in God, or even are christians means very little when it comes to considering wether their music is good for christians to consume. Being a christian doesn't mean your automaticly going to produce something that is Godly and good. By the same stroke, not being a christian doesn't mean your automaticly going to produce something evil.

I sincerely hope that ICP are christians, but even if they are it doesn't really change what I think of their music. What their lyrics say are a matter of objective fact, not subjective opinion. You can argue all you want about what ICP really means, or what the proper interpetation of their lyrics is, but even if you decide that the message they are trying to express is good, the way they are expressing it is vile and ugly. There have been many people in history who have tried to express christian messages to people by using unchristian means, the theory being that you can thus reach people "where they are at" but this simply doesn't work. It has never worked and it never will because there simply can be no fellowship of Good with Evil. When you mix good with evil, what you end up with is evil (generaly a more dangerous evil because its more deceptive).

Now, it is possible that maybe ICP will change from here on out. I don't know. However, if they do change from here on out, its not going to make what they have already done any better. I hope that they have turned over a new leaf and had some changing experience, I guess to really know we will simply have to wait and see.

@Kramit, Jesus was friends with sinners, and so am I. The vast majority of my friends are not christians. In fact, I am quite an oddity among the community of gamers that I often hang out with. I am "the God guy". If ICP stopped by here and wanted to hang out, sure I'd have no problem with hanging out with them. The point is, however, that Jesus, while he loved and befriended sinners never condoned their evil actions. He tried to show them that they needed help and needed to stop. He said things like "go and sin no more". You will find Jesus befriending a prostitute, but you'll never find Jesus condoning prostitution or talking about commiting grusome acts of violence or or perverse sexual acts. Everyone who wants to condone evil lifestyles always talks about Jesus befriending sinners, but they always seem to forget that Jesus told the sinners right where it was at. He told them they were sinners and they needed to change.
I want to help juggalo's, and thats the point, things like the ICP's lyrics do not help, they hinder. You can not consume vile things without it affecting you.

Kramit, as I read your posts I am struck primarily by the attitude of rebellion that sticks out all over in them. I don't mean that to be an attack on you, but simply as an observation. As a fellow christian it gives me cause for concern, not cause for gloating, or holier than thou behavior. I am certainly as human, and as prone to err as any other person on this board. Rebellion is a dangerous attitude for a christian I hope that you will at least consider the possability and take it to God in prayer. Your signature says "only God can judge me" well this is not quite true. First it is clear from scripture that you also can judge you, and that you should. We should all hold ourselves up every day to the mirror of scripture and see how we match God's standards.

"who are you to judge?" again I don't mean to offend or attack but this question is simply irrelevant and ultimately meaningless. Who I am, or who D-Sipl is doesn't matter in the least, its what we say that is important. Is what I say correct? or isn't it? Who I am to say it doesn't matter. Who you are may win you some "credability" it may mean that people are more willing to take your advice, but ultimately even the wisest man is prone to error and even the biggest idiot can get things right. As I like to say "even a broken clock is right twice a day". Another good variation "even a blind rat finds cheese once in a while". So sure, you might want to be careful who you take advice from, but ultimately only the advice itself really matters.

As to ICP being the two prophets of revelation... I've heard more convincing arguments that Barney the Purple Dinosaur is the antichrist.

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-- ignorance can be educated, immaturity can be grown out of, and drunkeness can be sobered, but stupid lasts forever.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
if the lyrics go against the word of God, they can't be of God. also if a tree bares bad fruit it's a what?...bad tree. doesn't mean they're doomed for hell no matter what, just means they need to be born again, repent, get saved, however you want to word it, they need Jesus. if it doesn't bother you to use curse words all the time, talk about slashing people up, and talk about perveted sex, and feel no shame and justify it out in your head...you're lost.
sure it's possible for a Christian to do any of those things, but i they will the shame of what they've done, and repent.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

POGO

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Indiana,USA
Registered: 11-02-2004
I am not saying that you have to like them.It is kool if you hate them. If I got mad because you have a different opinion and outlook on them then I would be judging you, and that is the last thing I would ever do. So like them or hate them its all the same. As long as your soul is at peace and the Father is with you that is all that matters.M.C.L.&M.J.L.

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Now we look to the sky for the light and truth
I'll see you again in the morning

Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
Okay, I've been putting this off for a while.

Woody. You said you've been a fan of ICP for you whole life, listened to all their cd's and more then likely know the meaning behind a lof their songs. Yet their latest cd Hell's Pit confuses you. What you hear in the intro of the cd doesnt shed light on the meaning of the cd? It says in part of it, "welcome to hell, Why did you buy this?" If you listen to the cd you'll see that they're writing about what they believe hell will be like.

Put the vulgar language behind y'all and listen to the songs. If you go into it with an open mind and listen to the lyrics you'll see what they're talking about and rapping about.

The bible says To be as cunning as a serpant but gentle as a dove. Now isnt that basically what they have done through their music? They related to a lot of people through the dark side of life and while doing that, they've preached the bible in a round about way. They've brought alot of people into light through their music and many mainstream media outlets and even people have said their evil with out really listening to their music.

Simon ... You're post's are always well thought out and typed. I'd like to ask this question tho. If a person is depressed or suicidal or athiest or what ever. Think they'd listen to the word of God if it was told them all happy happy joy joy? Or even by a person they cant relate with. Yet if they get the word of God through a different form that may go against the grain. Which form do you think will get their attention first and lead them to the light.

Now am I saying ICP is all holy. NO. Am I saying they're your average Christian. NO. As I've said in another post, we dont come from a cookie cutter mold. Yet just because they swear or in their music or comics or what ever, dont mean they're not christians and not trying to spread the word of god.

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The most dangerous person is one who believes they're a "Pretty Good Christian" = Mel Odom, Author of the Left Behind Apocalypse Book Series.

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
you have a good point clown, with what people relate and what may be the eye opener or first step towards God,
however a well does not produce good and bad fruit, and if you look at the lives and fruit of ICP you can see that despite some of their spiritual cotent, it is far from christian, however does that mean that God can't use it? of course not, God turns the bad into God, i know many people who were introduced to the gospel by a backslidden christian who was drugged out, or even an atheist who uderstood the ideas and was just talking about it or whatever, God places eye openers and things in all cultures (including the modern gen X, and global youth culture), these things themselves aren't the gospel, but a starting point in making communnication, and a relationship to be able to share the gospel, however the gospel in its pure form, IS POWERFUL, and if God has worked in somebodies heart, preparing them for the GOSPEL, it doesn't have to be souped or , or watered down, it is the POWER OF GOD, the living word, truth that sets free, but i am all for cross cultural communication as a tool, and also being joyful doesn't mean we don't relate, we can be real, like david, and show the feelings of depression etc, emphathise with those people who are low - for some of us have been there before anyhow, but show them Hope, that there is Hope and that in Christ they can be more than overcommers.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
quote:
Think they'd listen to the word of God if it was told them all happy happy joy joy?

where is that?

as far as I know, that's mainly preached by... barney the dinosaur.

read Job.

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Soterion Studios

WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
Hey about their last cd. It is only half of the last jokers card. Not saying that they are right, but they beleive that you will be carried off to Heaven or Hell. That last cd was to point out how crappy Hell is and why no one wants to be carried off to there.

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Justin

Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
yeah I know. I have all their cd's except for two ep's. I just like they're music. Bad mood or good you can always find a song that you like to fit that mood. I also like the meaning behind alot of thier songs. You just have to sit and listen to the songs to find the meaning.

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The most dangerous person is one who believes they're a "Pretty Good Christian" = Mel Odom, Author of the Left Behind Apocalypse Book Series.

barbwirebiscuit

Junior Member

Posts: 6
From: Crescent City, CA USA
Registered: 12-07-2004
I'm a Christian and I listen to ICP. I've owned almost every album they put out, been to several concerts, have painted my face on numerous occasions and have a few Psychopathic Records related tattoos. I found this website while doing a search on ICP on dogpile.com. Truth be told many of the replies on here have saddenned and disgusted me. I happen to hear a very clear message from their lyrics and it is a wholesome one. I'm willing to bet that many who judge these lyrics have either not listened to them, listened with a preconceived belief that the message was evil, or else has the idea in their head that only their kind of praise/worship/gospel/wholesome music is the right kind. Sorry folks, I got news for you. What may be right for you may be totally wrong for another. Somebody talked about bad fruit coming from ICP. Okay what fruit? Do you think they actually kill people? Come on. There's a reason we aren't supposed to judge. It's because we only see what happens on the outside. A lot of the message ICP spreads is in metaphors. Some of it is actually blatant. Let me give you a few examples. They call themselves 'wicked clowns.' Now some might read take this to mean that their message is evil. Consider the alternative. What if they call themselves that not to embrace their fallen nature but to admit it. Someone said they thought it was okay to judge ICP because they felt it would be just fine for God to judge them by the same standard they were passing judgment by. Consider this. What if you will be judged because of that judgment you passed but it won't be the way you thought. Maybe you will have what you say taken at face value instead of the true meaning of your heart being considered. Depending on the situation that could be pretty bad. Look, I'm not coming here to recruit juggalos or anything. (I could probably type all day and explain what it means to us to REALLY be a juggalo but I'm sure this post will be sufficient.) But I find it truly sad to see a bunch of professing Christians bearing what appears to be bad fruit to me by judging others, taking Scripture out of context, and pushing people away from the flock who might otherwise be trying to find their niche as a believer. I'm anticipating someone will want to debate some of the points I have made so I'll return to this site soon and help shed some light on any sincere issues that ought to be addressed. Remember, it's very dangerous to label something you are ignorant of. If you truly have interest, whether your belief is that it is good or evil, you should investigate without preconceived notions about that subject.

Peace
MCL
Nate

barbwirebiscuit

Junior Member

Posts: 6
From: Crescent City, CA USA
Registered: 12-07-2004
Anyone who is interested should check out this website.

www.juggalofaith.com

Peace
MCL
Nate

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
They swear in their songs. That is fact.

The bible says in Proverbs 8:6-8

Listen, for I will speak of excellent things
And from the opening of my lips will come right things
For my mouth will speak truth
Wickedness is an abomination to my lips
All the words of my mouth are with righteousness
Nothing crooked or perverse is in them

Says it all really.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I just checked out the site you posted.

Read the guestbook, it's littered with foul language and everything. Start getting into the word and you'll realise these things are un-Godly.

Like i said before in this thread. I used to listen to Slipknot and all types of music with foul language and stuff. It did my spirit no good what-so-ever.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
that site's a joke right? is it suppose to be a Christian site? from what i seen on the site it's like taking what you like about Christ, and leaving out what you don't like...which is usually the stuff that you(your carnal self) enjoys doing but goes against God. good intentions don't make good fruits. they could be sincere and believe they are doing right, but they also need to get in touch with God, and read His word, and He'll open they're eyes.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

barbwirebiscuit

Junior Member

Posts: 6
From: Crescent City, CA USA
Registered: 12-07-2004
So the best argument against them is you don't like their choice of words? Foul language? Come on, that's like saying that it doesn't matter what someone is telling you, whether its good or bad, you should base everything on what you call foul language. Sorry folks, that's a matter of taste and personal opinion. What you might call cuss or swear words are (when appropriately used) a really good way to express extreme emotion or feeling toward a particular subject. If you hold to these somewhat self imposed standards you are going to miss out on a lot in life. Trust me, I used to be just like you. I had to learn the hard way. Anyway, a believer is a believer. Juggalo or not. To criticize these things sounds like causing division. It's not love. It's being judgmental. It's saying that you can ultimately decide what words one must use when expressing their beliefs or feelings. You won't hear the message because you don't want to. It's that simple.

Peace
MCL
Nate

[This message has been edited by barbwirebiscuit (edited December 09, 2004).]

barbwirebiscuit

Junior Member

Posts: 6
From: Crescent City, CA USA
Registered: 12-07-2004
quote:
Originally posted by bennythebear:
that site's a joke right? is it suppose to be a Christian site? from what i seen on the site it's like taking what you like about Christ, and leaving out what you don't like...which is usually the stuff that you(your carnal self) enjoys doing but goes against God.

I don't think you read much of what was on the site.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I think we'll just agree to disagree.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
First off welcome to the boards barbwirebiscuit!

Alright, I'll state what I think of cursing. I think it's basically dirty, filthy language, and what it does is express what's in the heart. Jesus said, what comes out of the mouth is what defiles a man.

quote:
Matthew 15:11  Not that which goeth into the mouth defileth a man; but that which cometh out of the mouth, this defileth a man.


Listen to what James the brother of Jesus has to say about taming the tongue:

quote:

James 3:7 For every kind of beasts, and of birds, and of serpents, and of things in the sea, is tamed, and hath been tamed of mankind:
8 But the tongue can no man tame; it is an unruly evil, full of deadly poison.
9 Therewith bless we God, even the Father; and therewith curse we men, which are made after the similitude of God.
10 Out of the same mouth proceedeth blessing and cursing. My brethren, these things ought not so to be.
11 Doth a fountain send forth at the same place sweet water and bitter?

I understand that filthy talking is a bad habit and it's not easy to break it, I know many people who had to just about learn a new language once being saved. I understand if someone is struggling with breaking the habit, but to continue as if nothing's wrong is in no way acceptable to God. As James says, "it ought not so to be". In other words, "it is not right for these things to be so."

I viewed some of their lyrics, and I see nothing at all that glorifies Jesus Christ in any way. Some songs say something about Angels, and Jesus, but from what I've seen, they have no Christian message at all. The devil can say "Jesus" too, but that doesn't mean a thing. I'm not fussing here, just making a point.

Are they heavy metal? There is a really good Christian Heavy Metal Band called Lions Share, they're hardcore too, but they also have real Christian messages in their music. And from what I've heard so far they are clean with it too. Check 'em out here:

http://www.lionsshare.org/


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If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited December 09, 2004).]

Klown

Member

Posts: 78
From: baraga, mi , united states of america
Registered: 11-10-2004
"Be as wary as a serpent but as Gentle as a Dove" ... I believe this line from the bible says it all.

ICP's music is for faint hearted I'll grant you that. The foul language bit is a poor example. As I've said. I've heard Christian Metal Bands sound just as bad as Slayer.

"Blackest magic, leave my soul, give my angels all control
Blackest magic, let me be, keep your black tounge off of me
Blackest magic, drop your chain, may you never speak my name
Blackest magic, watch you cower, bite your tongue and holy power
Why? why? when people witness magic, they'll ignore it and say it never happened
Only thing they'll beleive is whats tragic, god throws it nobody wanna catch it... "

That's from a song by Dark Lotus. ICP is a main part of that group. Good message being put for there. Makes you think.

ICP's music and the meaning behind alot of their music is what's going on today. It may be dark and use swears, yet the meaning is all the same. They range from child abuse to priest's using their faith in the church to further line their pockets with money. They're just going about it a way that will reach out to people in a different aspect. I know before I became a christian and right with the lord, I coulda caredless about any thing related to the bible or god. Yet even I could see the meaning behind a lot of the songs ICP released. Just gotta look outside of the box and the norm and open your mind and look for the meaning.

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The most dangerous person is one who believes they're a "Pretty Good Christian" = Mel Odom, Author of the Left Behind Apocalypse Book Series.

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
ICP's music is for faint hearted I'll grant you that. The foul language bit is a poor example. As I've said. I've heard Christian Metal Bands sound just as bad as Slayer.

Well don't listen to them either. Simple.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

Skynes
Member

Posts: 202
From: Belfast, N Ireland
Registered: 01-18-2004
quote:
As I've said. I've heard Christian Metal Bands sound just as bad as Slayer.

Do you mind if I ask you to name some?

HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
quote:
Originally posted by D-SIPL:
I just checked out the site you posted.

Read the guestbook, it's littered with foul language and everything. Start getting into the word and you'll realise these things are un-Godly.


Heya' D-Sipl -- I don't know if you checked the site out fully or not. I see you read the guestbook, but did you read their explanation page? Right on the bottom line of their front page it says "We have added a new page just for parents who visit our site with questions, please read it if your child sent you here.".

If you follow that link, I think you'll be able to see a little bit more of what the pro-ICP guys on here are saying.

Note that I'm not decidely pro or anti ICP at this point -- I can just see points on both sides of the issue and I think there can be more understanding here.

In Christ,
clint

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http://www.includingjudas.com/christiangame.html

Juggalo4Christ

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: 12-09-2004
I think its quite funny how you can sit here and talk bad about something that has brought thousands of people to christ. I know personaly over 20 people that are dedicated to our lord and savior only because of ICP's message. And hasnt it crossed your mind that the majority of these people wouldnt have ever stepped foot in a church , let alone repent.

you tell me whats more important.
Someone finding Christ because they listened to secular music.
or
that same person never finding Gods grace alltogether.
I know I wouldnt choose the latter.
one more thing....
HOW CAN A FOLLOWER OF GOD NOT BE EXCITED ABOUT PEOPLE FINDING HIM.
who are you to say that god doesnt work through ICP, in order to reach
the people that wouldve never known his grace otherwise


God Bless,
Tre'

------------------
God Bless,
Tre'

[This message has been edited by juggalo4christ (edited December 10, 2004).]

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
After reading through the site, I can see what you mean. And I am glad that people meet Christ because of ICP. Praise God! But I think that they are sending out mixed messages. It's good that someone can listen ICP and meet Christ through it. In fact, that is awesome! But once someone does meet Christ, I would think that ICP would lose it's appeal. One reason is because the guy writing the sermons seems to be confused about a few things himself. Here is a quote from the "Walk Away from the Darkness…" sermon:

quote:

The whole “Christian” belief system is based on Faith.

I put “Christian” in quote because I don’t like to call myself a “Christian” but other people do just because I mention Christ.

Just as I do not believe every word from the Bible.


??????

But I do like the prayer that he has at the bottom. A lot of what he says is right on. But he doesn't believe the whole Bible? Again, this seems very confusing. I hope that those who come to meet Christ through ICP don't stop there, but continue on in their walk with Christ. No Compromise !

------------------
If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

Juggalo4Christ

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: 12-09-2004
And just as a small footnote. Id like to add, that If it wasnt for Joe and Joey of ICP, I myself would have been dead long ago...weather it be from suicide or an overdose.....and the same goes for most Juggalos or "fans" of the Insane Clown Posse....most....not all but MOST of the juggalos Understand that ICP themselves arent right in there walk with God but at the same time LOVE there fans so much that they want nothing more than to see us find God ourselves...in a song called "Thy Unvailing" they say The Carnival is GOD and MAY THE JUGGALOS FIND HIM.....then they go on to say "we're not sorry if we tricked you" which to me, means that they will take the chance of losing MILLIONS of fans in order to have just a few of us look into what they are trying to tell us. Most of you may not understand what it means to me because you and I are most likely VERY DIFFERENT....but sometimes GOD will speak in different langueges so different people will hear him. who cares if the people running that website arent perfect...neither are you....besides they are trying to do whats right. and thats all that matters. GOD will speak to everyone in there life.....and it might be different for you but I found him though Joseph Bruce and Joey Utsler also known as ICP.

------------------
God Bless,
Tre'

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Welcome to the boards btw juggalo4christ!

First off I'm glad that you came to meet Christ bro, that's what's most important.

Yeah I totally understand what you're saying. God isn't finished with any of us yet. None of us have "arrived". We all have our flaws, and believe you me, I am certainly aware that I do too! I'm glad that many who don't know Christ are listening to ICP instead of a lot of the other stuff out there. And I think God can, and has worked through ICP. But, I can't just see some of the stuff they do and pretend that nothing's wrong with it. If I am not right in my walk with Christ and another Christian knows this, they should let me know in brotherly love. I'm not saying that ICP should be banned or hated or anything. But I don't think that their music is appropriate for a Christian to listen to as if nothing is wrong.


------------------
If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited December 10, 2004).]

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
I'm sure you'll all find the meanings behind Tool's 'Opiate' quite interesting.... just remember that it comes from Marx's quote... I'll post it later if you're interested

------------------
The Stank pwns you!

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
Haha Livingstone put that Marx quote up... I'm assuming its the drug one... we could write about it in our notebooks for our personal-response deals... I eased on that topic nicely... cool guy, that Marx.
CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
The "Religion is the Opiate of society" one? Yeah Livingstone is a pwnage teacher.

Quick definition for you people:
Opiate - a drug that numbs the sences.

Therefore Religion numbs the sences of society. Making them think as one, instead of self-thought. They require the bible and it's teachings to answer questions for them. They have a problem they do what the bible says. No one thinks for themselves anymore and it really makes for boring conversation.

------------------
The Stank pwns you!

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
Heh I wrote a whole essay for that class about that sort of stuff, my thesis was that religion is a costly failure, aHA!

-Divides society into different groups, like racism = war/hate.
-Supposed to scare people straight, but they still sin, only truly believe when their life is in danger, fancy that. Well for most, ease down you fanatics.
-Numbs the senses, exactly: Instead of using common sense, don't do anything, cause whatever happens is God's will...

Livingstone is open-minded, any other teacher would have my head on a stake as an example. I could send you the essay if you want, make it happen with the Cap'n.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
so what exactly do y'all believe? the no God thing? that everything happened by chance? you think Christians are weak minded i take it? ignorance is a bad thing, but foolishness is worse.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

[This message has been edited by bennythebear (edited December 17, 2004).]

scotticusvii

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Casper, WY
Registered: 12-17-2004
I will say this. ICP never tells the world that there is only one gateway to heaven and that gate is Jesus Christ. They tell you that if the Jekel Brothers can Juggle your sins you may go to heaven. So in other words if you don't sin too much and if you have more good works than sin you will go to heaven
scotticusvii

Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Casper, WY
Registered: 12-17-2004
I will say this. ICP never tells the world that there is only one gateway to heaven and that gate is Jesus Christ. They tell you that if the Jekel Brothers can Juggle your sins you may go to heaven. So in other words if you don't sin too much and if you have more good works than sin you will go to heaven
bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
welcome to the boards!

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
Ease down bennythebear.
Neither of us have any proof.
But there sure are a lot of wars based on believing in God.
Religion divides society.
bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
do you think if there was no religion society would be whole?

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
as a side note, there is a big difference between "religion" and truely following God.

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
I said earlier that the differences that religion makes between people is similar to the effects of racism. I didn't say everyone would sing and skip along happily if religion was banned. Well,I would.

Yeah, there is a difference between religion and "truely following God"... doesn't change things, though. You're following God... the Islamic fanatics are following God...

I'm not linking you to Al Qaeda or anything, at least you guys don't strap bombs to yourselves and blow up children.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
what bothers you so much about "religion"? also remember just because someone claims to follow God doesn't mean they are. i believe in absolutes. i believe there is an absolute truth. something is either wrong or right, justifying is just man's way of "getting around" the rules. i also believe in mercy, God's way of showing His love to mankind. anyway, back to my question, what bothers you so much about "religion"?

------------------
proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
The different religions divide people into different groups and make tension. If there was no religion there would be less differences between people. World peace? Not quite... but it'd be one less problem.

How can they kill over something unproven?

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Well a lot of people here wouldn't say that they were religious. I see myself as having a personal relationship with God. I see religion as tradition. There are lot's of religions, but only one true God.

That is the God i talk to and have a personal relationship with. Religion is bad and divides people.

my two cents.

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
Yeah, compared to a lot of other religions, Christianity is pretty kickass, because instead of blowing up children it like organizes charities and whatnot, I guess you don't need to be religious to donate, but somehow the fanatics think that being religious is their excuse to blow up people.

I just don't get the angels and after-life and there's like a lamb wandering around in there somewhere, but that's for other discussions.

So keep up the good work, and remember: While you are coding games, others your age are making car bombs and slicing hostages. And they believe in a Creator just as much.

It's like the same basic idea, but for some reason they twist it up and end up killing innocents.

mellonamin

Member

Posts: 119
From: Maryville, TN, United States
Registered: 11-16-2004
Here it is put simply:

The group ICP has their own "Church". I know this because a couple of them came to my church with one of the girls from my youth group. They didn't really come to hear anything from God, they were coming to recruit people to their church. I know this because after the service, they went up to a boy in my youth group and asked him to join their church. They told him he had to slit his wrist and perform some kind of other ritual to be accepted, and he almost did it if my youth pastor hadn't seen him....from what I wrote above, I would advise you to stay away from them....

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Vita sine Ieso est mors.
Life without Jesus is death.

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Welcome aboard scotticusvii!

Right on D-SIPL, religion is dead but Jesus Christ is alive and well!

CheeseStorm:
Religion is man trying to find a way to God. Christianity is God seeking to save man. Giving to charities, feeding the poor, helping the homeless, etc... are not requirements to be a Christian. When we do such things, we simply can't help it, for God himself lives within our hearts, the joys of serving the Living God cannot be expressed through this forum. Jesus Christ doesn't ask that you have blind faith in Him, instead He wants you to take Him seriously, and to put His words to the test.


mellonamin:
Are you serious? That is bad... really, really bad. But in a way it wouldn't suprise me, because the lyrics they sing are just as horrible... ya know, there is always some small amount of truth in the really dangerous lies.


------------------
If you let your faith go cold enough, there might come a point where you don't want to turn back to God. That would be tragic. -- Quote from Keith Green

3rd Day Studios

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited December 18, 2004).]

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
I know donating to charity isn't a requirement for being a Christian any more than blowing up kids is a requirement for being a Muslim. You do have a choice, though.
mellonamin

Member

Posts: 119
From: Maryville, TN, United States
Registered: 11-16-2004
I know you all are saying they sing about God, but think about it...is it the Christian God Jesus?? I could say that this chair I am sitting in is god and start worshipping it. That doesn't mean it is the true God though...One way to find out if someone is really a Christian is to mention Jesus. The ones who aren't will shy away...

------------------
Vita sine Ieso est mors.
Life without Jesus is death.

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
No way to tell if there is a god or how many exist.
But we can sure guess, damnit!
GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
Double post.

[This message has been edited by Gump (edited December 18, 2004).]

GUMP

Member

Posts: 1335
From: Melbourne, FL USA
Registered: 11-09-2002
What the Qur'an has to say:

quote:
[32.15] Only they believe in Our communications who, when they are reminded of them, fall down making obeisance and celebrate the praise of their Lord... [2.204] And among men is he whose speech about the life of this world causes you to wonder, and he calls on Allah to witness as to what is in his heart, yet he is the most violent of adversaries. [10.100] And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah’s permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand. [14.27]...Allah causes the unjust to go astray, and Allah does what He pleases. [2.254] ...the unbelievers -- they are the unjust. [3.28]Let not the believers take the unbelievers for friends rather than believers...[4.89]They desire that you should disbelieve as they have disbelieved so that you might be (all) alike; therefore take not from among them friends until they fly (their homes) in Allah’s way; but if they turn back, then seize them and kill them wherever you find them, and take not from among them a friend or a helper. [2.216] Fighting is enjoined on you, and is an object of dislike to you; and it may be that you dislike a thing while it is good for you, and it may be that you love a thing while it is evil for you, and Allah knows, while you do not know.[47.20]...when a decisive chapter is revealed, and fighting is mentioned therein you see those in whose hearts is a disease look to you with the look of one fainting because of death. Woe to them then! [9.39] If you do not go forth, He will chastise you with a painful chastisement... [33.60] If the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease and the agitators in the city do not desist,We shall most certainly set you over them,then they shall not be your neighbors in it but for a little while[33.61]Cursed:wherever they are found they shall be seized and murdered a (horrible) murdering. [8.55] Surely the vilest of animals in Allah's sight are those who disbelieve, then they would not believe. [8.65]O Prophet! Urge the believers to war... [17.58] And there is not a town but We will destroy it before the day of resurrection or chastise it with a severe chastisement; this is written in the Divine Ordinance. [48.28] He it is Who sent His Apostle with the guidance and the true religion that He may make it prevail over all the religions, and Allah is enough for a witness.

To be fair, Muhammad also ordered Muslims to be peaceful (relatively) towards one another. Of course, Muslims believe that everyone on the planet has to die, including themselves, before certain prophesized events will occur.

It's rather obvious why groups like al Queda are often called "fundamentalists", since they follow the Qur'an in its entirety. "Peaceful" Muslims are basically picking and choosing which verses they want to follow. In fact, according to al Queda people like that shouldn't even be considered Muslims (which is how they rationalize killing them).

Now for a recent real life example. I'm sure many of you remember when Osama Bin Laden offered peace to any European nation that pulls out of Iraq? Personally I believe he was following a page right out of the the Qur'an. In it, Muslims are encouraged to make peace treaties when losing a war. They are told to do this in order that they may be given time to rebuild their armies. Then once they are assured of victory they are told to break the peace treaty and attack. Oh yes, and lying to non-Muslims is not a sin.

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
That is a helluva cheap tactic.
WOODY

Member

Posts: 42
From: Mt. Pleasant, michigan, USA
Registered: 10-22-2002
I have met them and I have many friends who have also, and when they sing about killing or whatever they will sit right there and tell you they are not telling you to do it. All they ever said was if you’re crazy enough to do it then you are going to and you need some help. As for that whole lil church thing, I would say its people who say they are down with the clown, but they are not. That’s what really gets juggalos mad. A real juggalo don't care who you are or what you have, if you’re down with the clown then your fam. There is no slits of the wrist or anything like that
MadProf
Member

Posts: 181
From: Larnaka, Cyprus
Registered: 01-24-2001
I have not heard ICP, or even much about them. but i would like to question about the whole "foul language" thing.

I believe most "foul langauge" is a cultural issue. for instance, it is fine (in many "christian" circles) to say something is trash, or rubbish, or 'not good', but you would be decried for 'cursing' if you say something is [insert 4 letter word with the meaning "excretement"]. Not only that, but it goes further. To call dogs droppings by any one of the various "taboo" words is also very very bad. Why is this? A cultural thing, or a spiritual thing?

If it is a cultural thing, I can respect that, and have no problem with it. But to push it as religious is wrong.

In some (sub-)cultures to use these words doesn't even imply anything bad any more. Those words take on different meanings.

To use God's name in ways which are not honouring to Him is (I think) not just a cultural thing.

Likewise to insult or belittle anyone is not just a cultural thing. However, how one does this is a cultural thing. Where I am from, we "insult" each other a lot, make jokes about each other, and say things about each other which may well confuse others, and think we hate each other, but is a form of affection. A way of diplaying love. Not the best way, perhaps, but in this particular (sub) culture, it is the usual way.

I may be wrong, I have no way of knowing if my understanding is correct. I'm often wrong.

Anywya... If I'm offtopic again, just ignore me,.

God bless,

Dan

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7 days without prayer makes one weak.

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
I think insults are usually comical. I really never take offense to the common things of homosexual reference or of that nature. You gotta be original, its what counts.

I must say, that no matter the religion there will always be fanatics. Muslim, Christians, or that ICP thing you speak of. Hell there's even fanatics for things that are hardly even a religion... (did someone say Pokemon cards?)

------------------
The Stank pwns you!

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
I think swearing depends on culture. In America it is pretty acceptable to say pissed (i think). In the UK it wouldn't be something you would say as it is seen as swearing. If you say something and know in your culture that it is not good, then don't say it.

If it is not cussing and you know no different, then i guess without the holy spirit convicting you for it, it is alright? Maybe?

--D-SIPL

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If at first you don't succeed, destroy all evidence that suggests you tried

MadProf
Member

Posts: 181
From: Larnaka, Cyprus
Registered: 01-24-2001
i take the same view about it as I do about eating meat. pauls argument seems logical and fair, and so i follow that. I personally don't have a problem (currently) with using those words on stage (I am an actor) but I did have a problem last year with it. So I did not use them. I even dropped out of a play because of so much language i didn't like. Now it is a non-issue to me. If it is an issue to someone, they should NOT use such language, or even listen to it.

Anyway.

God bless,

Dan

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7 days without prayer makes one weak.

CheeseStorm
Member

Posts: 521
From:
Registered: 11-28-2004
AYE AYE CAPN
'Good' and 'bad' are ideas from our brain.
EL CAPPITAN
LE NEUTRAL
RevLoki10

Junior Member

Posts: 1
From: california
Registered: 03-01-2005
First let me introduce my self. I'm Rev. Loki10, Me and my wife B-lotus are both ordained ministers and we run www.Juggalofaith.com . I have read much about ICP and JF.com on this site and I thought I'd throw my own 2 cents in. First I'll tackle the "Foul Language" issue. First off thge bible dosent say foul language is a sin, it says wickedness is a sin I view this as wishing bad on people for example if you were like "I hope you die" or "I wish you were dead" those are wicked things. If I say however that something is "BS" I'm only saying that its not right, theres nothing wicked about that. As far as not believing every word of the bible I will remind you that the "king james" version of the bible had its content edited by King James. Prior to that the Jewish leaders edited it (The torah which we call the old testament) about 100 years before Christ was born. So as you can see man has had his hand in the book we now call the bible. I put my faith In Christ and God the Father. I know where my eternal soul is going. I grew up in a christian family and I have studied mant religions, and I came to this conclusion. While there are many truths in many different faiths, Only one faith has a living God and only one Faith has intercesion. Every other faith requires us to atain perfection, Christ tells us we are all born with sin but through his sacrafice we are saved. You can stand in judgement of me if you wish, I'll continue to tell the unreachable kids about Jesus. I started juggalofaith for people like me who were ostracized from the church for being different.

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McL
Peace
Http://www.juggalofaith.com

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
collosians 3
5Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6Because of these, the wrath of God is coming.[b] 7You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. 8But now you must rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and FILTHY LANGUAGE FROM YOUR LIPS. 9Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices 10and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator.

basically from investing ICP, it sounds very cultic.. it may have strands of truth in it, but in the end, it takes away from centeredness on Christ, adds periperals and is based around IDENTITY in those periperals rather than in the essense of the Christ Himself, and in so makes the 'subculture' become an idol above Christ himself, very dangerous.

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Cult of the ICP. Man they're just a band (and a lame band at that imo)! "i'm a juggalo for Christ"... congrats, i'm human.

--D-SIPL

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"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
not neccisarily the band is cult, but i mean this whole following thing, basing a religion around it..

a different kind of rastafarian sort of thing.

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

PwRofSe7eN
Junior Member

Posts: 1
From:
Registered: 03-11-2005
i must apologize to anyone i might offend with my comments but whilst i was researching insane clown posse for a term paper of mine, i stumbled across this bulletin board and felt not only the need to register, but also the need to reply. I was a christian for over 10 years of my life. Certain things about the religon disturbed me so I defected from it, now I am a happily practicing wiccan. I also study theology and am a chaplain's assistant for the army in korea. I understand that most people would not find their music to be spirtually clean, but have any of you thought about how it might uplift them? You need to start looking outside the walls of your religon and accept that not everyone practices their faith in the same way as you. With all different faiths, come different versions of absolution. " Love thy brother" even though he's kinda twisted. that is the basis of unconditional love. do any of you accept critiscism of your faith lightly? then why do you feel it is justifiable to do the same to others. there is a word for that. Hipocrisy. Don't follow down a path that looks clean on the surface. remember, your god is omniscient so obviously the judgement imposed not only comes from your actions but also your thoughts. that's all for now. consider this.

NONE IN THIS WORLD ARE PERFECT!

7

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
i have one question. what good does it do to "uplift" someone if they're just going to die and face God's wrath? if you understood what being a Christian is, then you would know we also believe other religions, and other gods to be false, and wicked, and misleading. you can't pick and choose from different religions and make up your own god. well, you can't do that and be right. it's not about pleasing ourselves, or finding what "fits" our lifestyle. it's about knowing we fall short of the glory of God, and do to that lose fellowship with Him. then knowing because He(GOD) loves us, He sent His Son to die for our sins, that we may have forgiveness and again be able to have fellowship with God. also resurrecting on the 3rd day to give us hope of eternal life.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
PwRofSe7eN:

Actually one of the first steps that I took towards receiving Christ as my Lord and Savior was your final statement there "No one in this world is perfect". It's one of the fundamentals mate. You are correct in saying that no one in this world is perfect. And God knows this as well, that's why He sent His perfect Son into this world and His perfect Son whom is Jesus Christ died as a perfect sacrifice for all of us imperfect people. And the only way any of us can ever hope to live in eternity with God is to take that fact, and receive Jesus' gift. We must repent of our sins, admit that we aren't perfect and we need a Savior whom is Jesus Christ. We must come humbly before Him and repent of our sins and receive His gift of Salvation. No other "religion" brings you into fellowship with God, they are just smoke screens tossed up by Satan to deceive you and eventually to have you die and spend eternity in the Lake of Fire with him. Notice I use the term religion in quotes, that's because at the heart Christianity is not a religion, it's a relationship with God, ... with Jesus Christ, the Creator of all. Religion is man trying to somehow reach God, Christianity is God reaching down to man, and man recognizing that He needs a Savior and receiving God's help.

And about the music; even if cursing and being hateful is uplifting to someone. When it's measured against God's Holy, Perfect and Just nature it's sin, period. If we decide to "uplift" ourselves by listening to degrading music then God won't let that just slide by as being ok. God is love but He is also the Righteous Judge.

Also, could you please tell what about Christianity you found disturbing? And why you haven't found being a wiccan as disturbing as being a Christian?

Welcome the forums btw.

------------------
I wanna die
And let You give
Your Life to me
So that I might live

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
Many of these people turn against Christ because they quite simply view the Christian way as not entirely pure as we wish it to sound.

Being against homosexuality for one thing labels the Christians fascists, after Jesus there were many many years of biological and technological advancement which went on in divisions, therefore, homosexuality has muddled through as being acceptable now, it's never going to go away, it can't be stopped, it'll go on from there with more and more sins becoming acceptable, I was born into a time where we can lay with another man and swear freely, the result? I swear constantly and am definately going to hell, I'll always view homosexuality as wrong but what I'm doing is picking and choosing, I'll never stop swearing, I already had to pull against my every instinct to become a Christian, because the media and everything else has created a new instinct for us to have, there are people who can look at gay sex and not be absolutely disgusted, in fact people applaud it now.

No sex before marriage, yeah I don't think so, that one's gone as well.

The guidelines for our perfect world have inevitably been broken, God knew this would happen obviously, there's a reason why people think that the word of god is wrong, another one would be natural disasters that cause death worldwide, that one's easy to use, what can you really say against it?

Here's one that you can't say anything against, this is the ultimate God repellant, quite simply put, not everyone who is pure of heart will go to heaven, 1. remember there is a new standard on what is right and wrong now, I'm sure that there are gay people out there who give millions to charity and love thy brother as good as anyone, but they're going to burn and I really don't think people are gonna like that, 2. Not actually sure about this, but I think Buddhism let's anyone into Nirvana provided they are good really, Karma I think it is. (I am no Buddhist so I reckon what I just said could be wrong or mispelled, no insult intended)

Christianity doesn't stand a chance really, just pass on what you can in as casual a manner as possible, everyone pushing God at people is what has created Insane Clown Churches and other stuff, none of these people are stupid, following the Christian path is getting to a point where all is futile.

This will shock many, but I would rather die and rot in the ground than be judged by anyone, I will always fear God more than I love him, it's Hell for me guaranteed, but I'm gonna do my best to be a nice person and when I do go to burn I can say that at least I had a good run. We quite simply cannot be an all round good person, because we don't know how anymore, the Bible is not compulsory so morals are warped more and more as we go along. All I'm going to get in reply to this is typical Blind Faith answers, but we can't help it can we?

All we can do is say "It's wrong", sometimes we do this in a very elaborate fashion, but in the end that's all we can say.

[This message has been edited by Goldrush13 (edited March 12, 2005).]

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
It's all futile? To pluck out some of your examples. I don't hate gay people, i think it's wrong but love the sinner, hate the sin.

Sex before marriage, it's hard yes, but i have been with my fiance for 2 years and have abstained from sex. It's not easy but we don't put ourselves ina position where it could happen.

Being a christian isn't easy, if it was then Jesus wouldn't have to had gone to the cross. Yes i mess up, all the time in fact, but i admit it, confess it and ask God for forgiveness, it's done. I'm forgiven, easy.

I would rather have it this way love God with all my heart and do my upmost to live a righteous life, spend an eternity with him, then go to hell because it was just too hard. It's not hard, the devil would just have you believe that.

Forgiveness is a wonderful thing and i'm so thankful we serve a merciful God.

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
Live in the now D-SIPL, the fact of the matter is that Christianity is dwindling, what you said as ever was great, it must be really good to feel that close to God, but I can't do it all the time, even with some of my greatest efforts I just feel distant, now out there is a world full of sin and all non-believers are finding it harder and harder to get to the true path of the light and glory of God because we're at a point where so many people (including me) find fault in the way of God and I know that all of my doubts are wrong but I refuse to let go because it's the way me and so many others have been moulded over the recent years that lead us to think that way.

You're reply was something like "I don't hate gays", neither do I and I wasn't accusing anyone of thinking that way either, I think blind faith is great and shows the ultimate trust, it doesn't work that way for me though and I really wish I could be like all the others but the second I try to settle in I try to repress all of these questions that cannot be answered by ANY Christian, all I get is incredibly patronising blind faith answers and I sit there thinking, "I went over this so many times, what you're telling me is flawed", and when I speak up they disregard what I say or just shrug their shoulders and walk off.

I'm sure years from now I'll settle down and be a good Christian, but I will never be like you, I'm just gonna have to sit down and lie to myself, God knows all, so how can we begin to understand?

D-SIPL, I don't WANT to give up and go to hell as you so wonderfully put it, I know how bad it's going to be if I go there, so I'll try my best and take advice from other people, needless to say , comments like that are not welcome and I don't find them helpful in the slightest.

[This message has been edited by Goldrush13 (edited March 12, 2005).]

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Goldrush13, how long have you been a Christian? And what do you do to strengthen your faith?
Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
Goldrush,

God sympathises with your struggles and your humanity. He understands you, including your doubts and confusions.. He came to earth in human form and identified with everything to do with our condition, temptations etc,
and through Christ we can overcome.

i know looking at the state of the western church it is easy to come to some of the conclusions you have, but if you look on the world scale, christianity is NOT in retreat , in fact God is moving amazingly with more people saved since 1997 then all of history beforehand. God is faithful to complete the good work He began, whether that be on the world scale or even in your own life. There seems to be a battle going on in your mind, (and probably one with fighting the sins of the flesh? - not judging just asking)

here some scriptures to encourage you:

1 peter 1
3His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through our knowledge of him who called us by his own glory and goodness. 4Through these he has given us his very great and precious promises, so that through them you may participate in the divine nature and escape the corruption in the world caused by evil desires.
5For this very reason, make every effort to add to your faith goodness; and to goodness, knowledge; 6and to knowledge, selfcontrol; and to selfcontrol, perseverance; and to perseverance, godliness; 7and to godliness, brotherly kindness; and to brotherly kindness, love. 8For if you possess these qualities in increasing measure, they will keep you from being ineffective and unproductive in your knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

(sorry time cut short)

one thing to end on
VERY IMPORTANT

be careful of REBELLION against GOD.. we live in a generation where the spiritual climate is of rebellion against God, and the spiritual forces would like to plant those seeds in our heart.. the fact is so many are JUDGING GOD, claiming the moral upper hand against God, that we ourselves are right, and even more moral in our judgements than Him, this is exactly the position of satan himself, be sure to root out any seeds of rebellion in your heart against God for then i believe you will enter into a season of spiritual breakthrough in your life in a real way

Karl

REBELLION


------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:

Being against homosexuality for one thing labels the Christians fascists, after Jesus there were many many years of biological and technological advancement which went on in divisions, therefore, homosexuality has muddled through as being acceptable now, it's never going to go away, it can't be stopped, it'll go on from there with more and more sins becoming acceptable, I was born into a time where we can lay with another man and swear freely, the result? I swear constantly and am definately going to hell, I'll always view homosexuality as wrong but what I'm doing is picking and choosing, I'll never stop swearing, I already had to pull against my every instinct to become a Christian, because the media and everything else has created a new instinct for us to have, there are people who can look at gay sex and not be absolutely disgusted, in fact people applaud it now.

I was born in the same age as you, but why have I chosen to stop swearing. Why do some choose to follow God and others don't? Sin will go away and it will be stopped, it will be dealt with. And anyone who continues to hold on to it will be dealt with as well. It sounds like you're trying to blame your sin on the culture that you live in. It may have enticed you to sin, but it doesn't make you sin. You are the only one capable of doing that.

quote:
No sex before marriage, yeah I don't think so, that one's gone as well.

Well possibly from your viewpoint, but don't speak for everyone. I'm single and I'm proud of being a virgin.

quote:

The guidelines for our perfect world have inevitably been broken, God knew this would happen obviously, there's a reason why people think that the word of god is wrong, another one would be natural disasters that cause death worldwide, that one's easy to use, what can you really say against it?

This world and this universe was not created to be perfect, it was created for beings to choose if they'd follow God or rebel against Him. A time is coming when the testing will be over and it will be time for God to judge as only He can do. Then those who have chosen to follow God will live with Him and each other forever. If the Lord tarries, then we all will die eventually. As C.S. Lewis said; natural disasters, war, etc.. don't increase death. But death is total in every generation. Even if God is responsible for natural disasters then He has every right to cause them. He created us and gave us our lives and the time we have here, so our lives are also His to take.


quote:

Here's one that you can't say anything against, this is the ultimate God repellant, quite simply put, not everyone who is pure of heart will go to heaven, 1. remember there is a new standard on what is right and wrong now, I'm sure that there are gay people out there who give millions to charity and love thy brother as good as anyone, but they're going to burn and I really don't think people are gonna like that, 2. Not actually sure about this, but I think Buddhism let's anyone into Nirvana provided they are good really, Karma I think it is. (I am no Buddhist so I reckon what I just said could be wrong or mispelled, no insult intended)

God is the only true standard for what is right and wrong. And He is certainly not a new standard. People like to dodge around the real issue of what's wrong, of where the problem really lies. It doesn't matter how many good works someone does, if they don't repent of their sin and receive Christ into their hearts then there is no way for them to get to heaven. As I explained in another post. It would be the same as this:

Picture a husband and a wife. Let's say that the husband does something to destroy his relationship with his wife, something repulsive. Now tell me, would giving to charity restore the broken relationship? Would loving the next door neighbors restore the broken relationship? No! It's dodging around the real issue that the husband doesn't want to deal with. Most of the time he doesn't want to deal with it cause he thinks that he did no wrong, or that he's justified in his actions. Or maybe he just has too much pride to break down and ask for forgiveness. This is the same thing that people do with God. They do what makes them feel good. While they ignore the only way to restore the broken relationship.


quote:

Christianity doesn't stand a chance really, just pass on what you can in as casual a manner as possible, everyone pushing God at people is what has created Insane Clown Churches and other stuff, none of these people are stupid, following the Christian path is getting to a point where all is futile.

What you mean is that Christianity doesn't stand a chance as far as you're concerned right?

quote:

This will shock many, but I would rather die and rot in the ground than be judged by anyone, I will always fear God more than I love him, it's Hell for me guaranteed, but I'm gonna do my best to be a nice person and when I do go to burn I can say that at least I had a good run. We quite simply cannot be an all round good person, because we don't know how anymore, the Bible is not compulsory so morals are warped more and more as we go along. All I'm going to get in reply to this is typical Blind Faith answers, but we can't help it can we?

That's a very prideful thing to say. You'd rather die and be snuffed from existence than to humble yourself and be judged by God, your own Creator. I hope you realize that it's by His will that you have ever tasted any wonderful foods, or have every seen a beautiful sunrise, the vast ocean, or any of His beautiful creation... that He made for your delight. Pride has to be one of the most selfish and sickening things I've ever seen, and what I hate most is that I sometimes find myself prideful of myself and selfish in my desires. I pray that God will forgive me of my pride and selfishness, and I thank Him for everything that He's created, I praise Him for who He is...

quote:

All we can do is say "It's wrong", sometimes we do this in a very elaborate fashion, but in the end that's all we can say.

But God can and will do something about it.


quote:
Live in the now D-SIPL, the fact of the matter is that Christianity is dwindling, what you said as ever was great, it must be really good to feel that close to God, but I can't do it all the time, even with some of my greatest efforts I just feel distant, now out there is a world full of sin and all non-believers are finding it harder and harder to get to the true path of the light and glory of God because we're at a point where so many people (including me) find fault in the way of God and I know that all of my doubts are wrong but I refuse to let go because it's the way me and so many others have been moulded over the recent years that lead us to think that way.


First off your relationship should have little to do with how you feel, because our emotions change with the wind. If you don't feel close to God and you really would like to, then it may be a test to see just how much you really trust and desire Him. Will you continue to follow God even though it seems that He's distant right now? Will you humble yourself and even look like a fool to non-believers if you have too? Think of what King David went through, He was called a man after God's own heart, and yet in the Psalms he expresses many different ranges of emotions towards God. Some joy, some sorrow, he even asked God why He was so far off. Think about Job. Talk about feeling distant, God let Satan attack Job. How do you think Job felt about that? Think that it was fair? Also, God was silent until the very end of the book of Job. If you find fault in that then either you are putting your knowledge above that of the all-knowing God, or you just don't trust that He's who He says that He is.

Okay let me get this straight. You said that you find fault in the way of God, but that you know that your doubts are wrong. And you refuse to let go of your doubts because someone has molded you in that way? If that is what you mean then let me give you an example of what you say. Basically you are saying that you know the truth, but you are deliberately choosing against it because others that choose against it have told you to choose against it too? So, you are choosing to go to hell because Satan wants you to? Is the sin in this world really worth spending eternity in hell over? Remember this life is temporary, this life is like a test to determine where you'll spend eternity. What do you gain if you have many happy moments and great accomplishments in this life but you lose your soul for eternity. That is a frightening thought... eternity in hell... It'd be a horrible experience to be in that place of torment for all of eternity thinking that it's only because of your actions in this short life of 80-100 years that you are there.

quote:

You're reply was something like "I don't hate gays", neither do I and I wasn't accusing anyone of thinking that way either, I think blind faith is great and shows the ultimate trust, it doesn't work that way for me though and I really wish I could be like all the others but the second I try to settle in I try to repress all of these questions that cannot be answered by ANY Christian, all I get is incredibly patronising blind faith answers and I sit there thinking, "I went over this so many times, what you're telling me is flawed", and when I speak up they disregard what I say or just shrug their shoulders and walk off.

What is it exactly that you say is flawed? I don't think blind faith is really great. In that case you could just believe anything cause it's what you want to believe. IMO blind faith is kind of shallow. You have to know what it is that you believe in. God wants you to believe in Him and to follow Him. You must repent of your sins, and ask Him to be your Savior and Lord. Repent literally means to "change your mind". It means that you make up your mind that you will make a 180 turn from your sinful ways and that you will follow Christ. What you really believe effects your behavior. If you believe that you are saved then your actions will not be, "I am going to hell... oh well, I'll just live the here and now." What it comes down to is trust. Jesus is the Son of God, the Creator of everything. He holds all things together in the universe. Don't you think that He can take care of you? As a song says, "If His eye is on a sparrow, then I know He watches me." The hairs on your head are numbered, and God not only knows how many you have but He also cares. He passionately cares about every action you take. He even wants to be involved in all the decisions you make and all the thoughts you think. This isn't motivated by anything that you've done, but is motivated by His love for you.

quote:

I'm sure years from now I'll settle down and be a good Christian, but I will never be like you, I'm just gonna have to sit down and lie to myself, God knows all, so how can we begin to understand?

That's if you get the chance. All of us are but one breath from eternity. None of us have a say in how long we'll live. It's only by God's will that we can take our very next breath, that our heart beats it's very next beat. He could simply speak a word and we'd immediately cross over into eternity.. to a glorious morning or to an endless night... We should be always thankful for the life that He has given us, and we must use the time that He has given us wisely, for it is a wonderful gift.

Being a "good Christian" has nothing to do with being like someone else. Be yourself. God created you. As Rick Warren says, "Before you were conceived in your mothers womb you were conceived in the mind of God." And He wants your relationship with Him to be restored. You must repent of your sins against Him and receive Him into you heart. That means to make Him the Lord of your life.


quote:

D-SIPL, I don't WANT to give up and go to hell as you so wonderfully put it, I know how bad it's going to be if I go there, so I'll try my best and take advice from other people, needless to say , comments like that are not welcome and I don't find them helpful in the slightest.

Well, it's good to hear that you've still got some fight in ya. Yeah hell's going to be a place of nothing good; no hope, no love, no pleasure, only torment, hate, regret, sorrow. It's a place that must be avoided at all costs. You have to lay your life down and say, "You're the Lord, I'll follow you for the rest of my life." I know that our own desires and life goals can get in the way at times. But Christ said to die to ourselves. He told us to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. Also, it's good to listen to what others have to say, but what's even better is to read what God has to say in His Word!

God Bless,

------------------
I wanna die
And let You give
Your Life to me
So that I might live

Simon_Templar

Member

Posts: 330
From: Eau Claire, WI USA
Registered: 10-25-2004
Hey Goldrush,

I'd echo what Klumsy said earlier, he was right on. there are a couple of things, I would like to add, however.

First of all, people in the modern world like to think of themselves as different than those who have gone before, we like to think of ourselves as advanced, more enlightened, more intelligent, and so on. The fact is none of this is really true. The fact of the matter is that the heart and mind of man have changed very little through out history. If you study history you will find different people groups at different times have had different ways of looking at things (some times vastly different ways). However, people have always had the same motivations, the same problems, the same hopes, and the same trials.

People often say that history repeats itself, but its more accurate to say that history moves in cycles. There are bright points on the cycle where education and learning are high and morality is high.. and there are dark points on the cycle where those things are low. Mankind has achieved truly great things in the past only to have them sink into chaos.. the same thing will continue to happen until Jesus returns. The myth of "progress" is completely false. Humanity is eternaly struggling against the tide of darkness, we succede for a while but success breeds apathy and greed which inevitably lead back into the dark ages.

Many people like to say that we have changed to the point that the bible and christianity have lost relevance and must change.. nothing could be further from the truth. Klumsy was right, right now the church in the west is on the down turn because it has been consumed with decadence, apathy, and false philosophies. Christianity world wide, however, is not receding. There are in fact great revivals going on in a number of places around the world.

You spoke alot about the "rules" of christianity. You mentioned the ones you didn't like and said you were "picking and choosing" and so on. This seems to suggest to me a fundamental misunderstanding of Christianity. Christianity isn't about obeying the rules wether or not you like it. You can force yourself to obey all the rules, and still not be a christian.
Ultimately what makes you a christian is following Jesus Christ. You said you will always fear God more than you love him. Its good to fear God, infact more western christians need to fear God. This sounds very much, however, like you do not know Jesus. There is alot to love and to be loyal to in Jesus Christ. He is not a far away God who cares nothing for you, or will not help you. He is near to you, waiting for you to seek him.
He is a demanding Lord, he wants nothing less than all of you, and most of all your heart. This is where we come back to the rules. Obeying the rules simply isn't enough. An evil person can force himself to obey the rules.. God wants the "rules" to live in your heart. The good news here is that since following the rules isn't the point, your not condemned for failure. Jesus has been in our shoes, he knows what we face and he knows we will fail, but he demands that your heart be set on him.

------------------
-- All that is gold does not glitter,
Deep roots are not touched by the frost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Not all those who wander are lost.

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
good points everybody,
brandon you've developed the art of apologetics quite well..

goldrush
i hope and pray that these words of truth won't fall on empty ears, and that you'll be encouraged. if you are stick around, and let some people here continue to encourage you in the faith, while praying and seeking good mature christians in your community to mentor you and keep you accountible

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
quote:
I will always fear God more than I love him, it's Hell for me guaranteed, but I'm gonna do my best to be a nice person and when I do go to burn I can say that at least I had a good run.

Sorry if it seemed like i was cutting you down i wasn't. Just came across as if by the above quote that you were giving up and accepting the fact that your going to hell, which is a lie. I felt for you more then anything, you can amek it and you can do it. I'm not good enough and like ai said i mess up more then most people, but thats why there is forgiveness.

There have been times in my life where i feel so far away from good. But it says in the bible that if we draw close to him he will draw close to you. Just be honest with good, tell him you don't you can do it, tell him you feel a million miles away but that you want that to change.

Like i said i'm sorry if it seemed like i was cutting on you. I wasn't honestly.

--D-SIPL

------------------
"One World. One Web. One Program." -Microsoft promotional advertisement
"Ein Volk, ein Reich, ein Fuhrer!" -Adolf Hitler

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
Please understand that I can't pick from everything that's just been said but I guarentee I've read all of it.

In short I would like to thank Brandon for what he said, taking the time to write all that couldn't have been easy and I took it all in and understood it as well, many questions were raised and I really don't think I can answer them all, although I wasn't entirely convinced by everything that was said I was greatly humbled by pretty much all of what was mentioned.

Being Christian for 12 years and having a brother who no longer believes along with a wide scope of doubts contributes to all that I've said, which is why I always pass over the answers I expect, as I've called them "blind faith" answers, I've read my Bible from time to time, being a student as of recent hasn't given me as much time as I used to take. Books like the well-written "Pilgrims Progress" have always appealed to me and I have taken a great deal from these but in the end, questions will be unanswered, I'm a firm believer of "anything within the bounds of our reality is possible", past that and we can't be sure, that's where God is.

I go from beleiver to doubtful, but not once have I denied the existence of the one true God in all my years as a Christian, I'm sure this will provide a good enough basis for me to continue onward in my journey. The help was much appreciated but strengthens my beleive in the fact that nothing short of the Bible will help me out and there is no one able to provide any answers whatsoever that will help, not even the most devout.

Thank you.

bennythebear

Member

Posts: 1225
From: kentucky,usa
Registered: 12-13-2003
amen to that goldrush . seek and ye shall find.

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proverbs 17:28
Even a fool, when he holdeth his peace, is counted wise: and he that shutteth his lips is esteemed a man of understanding.

www.gfa.org - Gospel for Asia

www.persecution.com - Voice of the Martyrs

nfektious
Member

Posts: 408
From:
Registered: 10-25-2002
Goldrush, it is important that you maintain fellowship with a strong body of believers who exhibit the fruit of being Christian and obviously have the power of God in their lives. It is not important that your questions are answered now, but that in time they can be answered and will be answered by God to your satisfaction.
I was raised in a Christian home nearly from birth - about age 4, nearly 30 years ago - but learned many bad things in the name of Christianity due to overly humanistic and selfish people who took the name Christian. I was not limited to being in one church over those years, but experienced several congregations in several locations. I also witnessed the struggle in my parents' lifes as they grew in Christ after having been solidly entrenched in their set ways before become Christians. I also have three brothers who grew up with me and experienced everything I did in the home and outside of the home. I have also had to deal with my own struggles - my waywardness and rebellion - but, praise God, the power of God's mercy, grace and love to restore my faith in God and now be able to look back and see how much growth in him has occurred since those dark days.
The unfortunate thing is that my older brothers turned their back on God, after seeing and hearing the truth (in spite of the errors of those who claimed to be Christian, God still was there and was able to push through all of that). The oldest is a hardened atheist, and if you were to know him and discuss things with him as I have, you would see plainly that his attitude and reason for being as he is today is a direct result of anger and hatred toward my parents and what he blames on them, but not willing to accept anything he did as wrong (knowing fully that the reactions of my parents toward him were a direct result of the wrong he did and his refusal to obey and do right). Karl (aka Klumsy) is absolutely right about rebellion and its effects. My other brother, last I know, is an agnostic, but who has fallen so severely in life that he has lost his family and all the wonderful things he hopefully, by the grace of God, now realizes he had - a loving and caring wife and three wonderful children, all innocent victims of his selfish desires. My youngest brother knows the truth and still claims to be a Christian, but has trouble believing everything and when God comes up in conversation he quickly tries to change topics and dismiss the issue. I pray he has not fully turned his back on God and will one day become a strong witness like he once was.
These things are difficult for me to comprehend, because I have been able to see my parents grow more in Christ and the love of God since those struggling years - something my older brothers were not fortunate to witness with their own eyes. Were they perfect? No. Did they do their best and try to be as Christ-like as they could? Yes. And this is what is so important - to remain faithful, to overcome the struggles with faith - not just emptiness in heart or blind faith - but with fully practicing belief and perseverance in what God has done and said, what Christ lived, died and was resurrected for, and what the Bible gives us - the saving knowledge of an eternal relationship with God.
We will have struggles on this earth - this was guaranteed by Christ, and was definitely something Christ and his followers since have always experienced. Many of them, like you and I, have had questions, confusion, false understandings of the things God has said and done, or assumedly allowed to be - good or bad. But, through all of that, God maintained his faithfulness and promises to us - to fill us with power, love and peace. I encourage you to read all of 2 Timothy to help gain more insight on the struggle between flesh and spirit, and the importance of remaining faithful. I encourage you to pray for strength and rejuvenation of God's Spirit in you at every instance of depression. I pray that your knowledge and understanding in the things of God - those that matter much and matter little - are restored to perfection in your life for the glory of God and testimony of Christ Jesus.

God bless,
Matt

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Goldrush,

You are more than welcome. Wow, it really means a lot to hear that... I was totally expecting a different type of response.

I will keep you in my prayers

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I wanna die
And let You give
Your Life to me
So that I might live

rawken_chika
Junior Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: 05-01-2005
Hi. I didn't read everyone's reply to this, but I did get to see where that one guy started talking about the two parts of the last joker's card. The first part is about Shangri-La (Heaven), and it has the Dark Wraith on it and the second part is about Hell, and it has the Wraith of Purity. You're probably thinking WHAT? But the Wraith of Purity is trying to pull you out of Hell and up into Heaven, but the Dark Wraith is trying to pull you out of Heaven and down to Hell. That's why the second part of the last joker's card has the Wraith of Purity on it It is pushing you into Heaven.

They are Christians, and you do see a lot of swearing and gore in their songs, but they have extremely deep meanings. Many of you don't understand and you never will, and I choose not to explain. End.

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--=(HaNaH)=--

rawken_chika
Junior Member

Posts: 2
From:
Registered: 05-01-2005
quote:
Originally posted by mellonamin:
Here it is put simply:

The group ICP has their own "Church". I know this because a couple of them came to my church with one of the girls from my youth group. They didn't really come to hear anything from God, they were coming to recruit people to their church. I know this because after the service, they went up to a boy in my youth group and asked him to join their church. They told him he had to slit his wrist and perform some kind of other ritual to be accepted, and he almost did it if my youth pastor hadn't seen him....from what I wrote above, I would advise you to stay away from them....


Holy crap... these chicks were MESSED UP! These girls are obviously trying to make ICP sound like total f*ck heads. They are quite messed up, but they aren't trying to start their own church or religion! Are you sure these girls aren't mentally handicapped? Wow... I'm not a huge fan of ICP or anything, but I do listen to a bit of them.

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--=(HaNaH)=--

Goldrush13

Member

Posts: 107
From:
Registered: 02-27-2005
That's fine, but are you willing to accept that it's possible that maybe YOU don't understand our point of view and never will?
Juggalette4life
Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Rio rancho, NM, USA
Registered: 05-19-2005
Okay I have been down with ICP for awhile now, everyone says how horrible and what devil worshipers they are and so on... well heres my story... growing up i never believed in God i sae him as well like Santa Claus something ur parents would make up just to get u all excited about life. My mother used to be on the verge of tears everytime i told her to **** off and for her supposed God to do the same thing. Another reason why i hadnt liked the whole christian thing was because Im bisexual and thats soo agaist what the Bible says. then i have a question how come if someone was some mass murderer and he begged God for forgiveness, God is supposed to forgive him, but what i have been told by a priest himself is that if i dont go back to being straight then I will go to Hell...ICP doesnt care who we are what color, sexuality, or anything like that...so after hating this non exsistant god everyone was obsessed over, I listened to ICP and yes i had just seen them as some stuid rap group that song about stupid things at first, until i had actually obtained my own copy of the 6th jokers card the wraith. I then actually listened to the lyrics and was memorized especailly when i got the the last song Thy Unveiling. After listening to that CD over and over again, i really started to believe there was a god out there, something no other group could do for me. Yeah i could be in a car with friends and they would listen to Christian music, this kind of musi actually made me mad for the fact i felt they really pushed it on u about god and so on andthey werent able to sing about anything else, no im not saying all christain bands are like that but the ones that i have heard. ICP are nothing more than followers themselves they say that they r nothing higher. For the person who had said if they were prophets wouldnt they be more holier or whatever... well from what i learned from goin to church Jesus wasnt that holy back then, almost everyone thought that he was a joke, he wasnt rich or some king, he was nothing but a mere peasent. Some people thought that he was nothing but a false prophet. So who are we as people to say ICP arnt "the" prophets? and for the person who said that some girls came down tryin to recruit people to go to their church and told him he had to slit his wrist, that is stupid, i agree but thats not what ICP is about. Just because their might be a few confused followers out there doesnt mean thats how we are all like...I believe that there were people like that back then too. Like i have seen some christian killing a bunch of ppl for doin something wrong, like being bisexual or gay, or anything else the bible says is wrong. But just because of that one chirstian doesnt make me think that all of u are like that, some of my closest friends are christian, catholic, muslim and so on...The reason why i think that ICP comes off to be so scary, is the way that they appear which i think is just another lesson they try to get through something that parents and elders try to tell u but never seem to follow. Dont judge a book by it's cover.
kiwee

Member

Posts: 578
From: oxfordshire, england
Registered: 04-17-2004
quote:

Although I doubt it matters much if you have the right drivers, XP would be my choice. It's a later version of Windows, and it represents a sort of merging of business and personal use. XP is the latest and greatest (until longhorn comes out).

. . . but I don't see why 2000 shouldn't work, not much different as far as I can tell. Just avoid NT, and you should be fine. Early versions of NT didn't work with DirectX.



i have windows 2000 professional NT, and it works great, and infact, they started work on 2000 after XP

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I Am God's Kid!!

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
quote:
ICP doesnt care who we are what color, sexuality, or anything like that...so after hating this non exsistant god everyone was obsessed over

So are you saying that they condone homo\bisexuality? And if they do then are you just following them because they are telling you what you want to hear?

quote:
For the person who had said if they were prophets wouldnt they be more holier or whatever... well from what i learned from goin to church Jesus wasnt that holy back then, almost everyone thought that he was a joke, he wasnt rich or some king, he was nothing but a mere peasent. Some people thought that he was nothing but a false prophet. So who are we as people to say ICP arnt "the" prophets?

If they were prophets then they would reflect the message of Jesus Christ. OK I think that many people have what holy means confused with self-righteousness. Jesus was\is Holy. But the sinners didn't run away from Him. Not those who were really interested in Him. The sinners were drawn to Jesus and those who sought after Him, He healed and forgave them of their sins. Even the demon possessed prostitute, Mary Magdalene... He forgave her, told her to go, and sin no more, and eventually He made her the first messenger of the Gospel. The Son of God came down from heaven and lived as a servant. But Jesus was much more than a mere peasant. He was actually the rightful King, born of a royal lineage. He proved that He was indeed God, by raising from the dead 3 days after His death just as He said He would. This is what the Prophet Isaiah said about Him.

quote:
Isaiah 9:6  For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Jesus was God in human flesh. The Creator of the universe.

The Pharisees didn't think that He was a false prophet, they knew that He was the Son of God. But they were so caught up in their traditions and religion and the honor that they received from the people, that instead of giving Jesus the honor that He deserved they plotted to have Him killed. They knew that the miracles He did were of God, there was no doubt of that. But they willfully rejected and killed Him because they loved their dark deeds more than God. They knew that if the light was to shine on their deeds then they would be exposed for their true evil motives. I'd really suggest for you to read the book of John. And if you're honest you will see Jesus as He really is.

I don't know much about ICP but from reading some of their lyrics, I have come to the conclusion that they are not a Christian band. I do understand that they may have helped you believe in God, and that's a step in the right direction. I also understand that you have been through some tough times and all, and that some people may not understand. But God does, He loves you, and wants to help you more than even ICP does. I'm glad that you believe that there is a God. But you must realize that ICP doesn't contain a full revelation from God. If you want to know God more then read the Bible. It is His Word to mankind. I'd suggest the Gospel of John. I'm not judging ICP by their cover, but I am judging them by their lyrics and their teachings. Which are totally contrary to the nature of Jesus Christ.


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If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited May 19, 2005).]

Juggalette4life
Junior Member

Posts: 2
From: Rio rancho, NM, USA
Registered: 05-19-2005
ok.. well ICP does speak things of god ... they tell u what to not to do.just because they use cursing which i think is no big deal... they from what i know have never used the lords name in vain. they r showing that these are just words who cares. ICP does give a good amount of good messages for example, In their song called Truely Alone, Truly Alone is about a person whose sense of right or wrong degrades over time as he sits alone. With no one else around to watch him or tell him what's right or wrong he winds up going insane. Again, after the killing spree, this twisted individual gets killed and is sent to Hell. This goes back to the point from the last track... is it about the violence, or about what's right and wrong, and the consequences of human suffering?
The lesson of Shangri-La was that we can avoid this sense of isolation if we embrace others, and seek a more fundamental innocence. While it's clear there will be crazy people, at least ICP (who are no strangers to insanity) knows that it isn't wrong when the wackjobs get put down. It's wrong that society produces these wackos in the first place by being so cold and heartless to isolate people for so long.
I'd say that breaks down to a lot of other fundamental problems with society
The Witch
What the heck is the Witch?
Well, the Witch is depicted as convincing people to do the worst things. It's clear from the song's lyrics that these things are going to result you from being barred from heaven. The Witch lies and convinces people to do things that are simply wrong.
The possession of the Witch at night, as it's mentioned several times, is actually based off a common medical sleep issue. Sleep paralysis is when you wake up but your body is still asleep, therefore you cannot move it. ICP's explanation for this event is that it's "the Witch" on your chest.
But what is "the Witch"? A reverse message leading into this track explains that clearly. The Witch is the Devil. This explains the use of the Witch in the remainder of the album. And as the reverse message says, f*** the Witch! Again reverse messages support the idea that ICP isn't on the Devil's side.
The great thing about "the Witch" is that ICP felt the need to invent something to disguise the Devil, but still discuss him. You see, ICP didn't want you to think of Hell as being a glorified place. That's why they invented "the Witch". By construing the Devil as something else, they didn't give the Devil his due.
If ICP said "In the name of the Devil I cut the head off a mule, I gutted it, I put it on and I wore it to school." in the first line of "Walk Into The Darkness", it would've appeared as if they were satanists. Shangri-La contradicts that and simply put, the clowns are on God's side, not the Devil's. So to refuse the Devil the credit for the wicked lyric that's meant more to scare you, they said "In the name of the Witch I cut the head off a mule, I gutted it, I put it on and I wore it to school."
And of course that's a different impression. Very creative way to illustrate the terror of Hell without creating a confusing impression or glorifying it. If you get a chance to listen to this album, listen closer to the Witch references.
And there is a lot more... Im sry if i came off to compare jesus and ICP im really not. thats impossible to compare such things i was simply stating that some things may not be as they seem and no one will really know if ICP are nething high like that except God. But i also want to clarify something, ICP never stated or states that they are prophets...Okay i am now goin to quote something from a Rev. "I am here to try to help clear some things up for you, I know you have probably heard bad things about Insane Clown Posse aka ICP.
That they are evil and crude and rude and nasty.
I can tell you they are not Evil, they may be crude, rude and nasty sometimes.
But as hard as it is to believe, there is a reason for this, There are kids that feel left out and alone and suicidal in this world. they feel that cannot turn to their parents with their problems, cause Mom and Dad are too busy with their own lives to worry about my problems.
This is where ICP comes into the picture.
ICP started recording their story in 1990-91,a story that would take 12 almost 13 long years to complete.
They were young and poor and in trouble and needed something in their lives, little did they know that would eventually become known world wide and considered "the most hated band of all times", but loved by hundreds of thousands at the same time.

Their story is about the Dark Carnival. They told the story in chapters, the first was called "Carnival of Carnage" also known as the first joker's card. the Carnival of Carnage tells of life on the streets and how hard it is to be there, and how the evil of the world will corrupt you if you let it.

The second Joker's Card is "The Ringmaster" which is yourself, because you are in control of your own destiny, you can control how your life will turn out.

The third Joker's Card or "The Riddlebox" asks the question do you know if you will go to Heaven or Hell when you die?

The fourth Joker's Card is "The Great Milenko" He will tempt you with all you could ever want, so he can take your life away from you, he is the master of Illusions.

The fifth Joker's Card is "The Amazing Jeckel Brothers" they juggle our sins and our good deeds.
this is the eternal struggle within us all to do good to balance our bad deeds.

The Sixth Joker's Card is called "The Wraith" the first version is called Shangri-La this tells you if you believe in God and live a good life and do not do bad ,you will go to Heaven and what you can expect when you get there.
The 2nd version of "The Wraith is called Hell's Pit. Obviously it tells you what will happen if you fall for the devil's tricks and Illusions, hence the 4th joker's card "The Great Milenko". you will burn in Hell for eternity.

With all the cussing and killing that happened in these albums for all this time, they were all a lesson to kids to not do these things, to live good lives and do good deeds, there were reversals that told them of God and of Jesus, they were little clues through out all the albums, but they never came right out and said it until the 6th Joker's card, because the kids they were trying to reach are the one's who will not go to church or go to a bookstore and pick up the Bible, or go to a Christian music store and buy a album and listen to gospel, they wanted to hear the bad stuff, they thought all along that ICP was bad and wanted to be there with them for it all, they knew that the juggalos are a family, we are all there for each other to lean on in bad times and share joy in the good times.
and Then BAMMM, they dropped the Bomb, at the end of the whole story the last song on the Shangri-La they said it," Truth is we follow God, we've always been behind him" The Carnival is God and may all the Juggalos find him!" all this time these kids thought they were listening to evil bad music, they were getting the message of God all along!

If you will ever listen to ICP for even one thing, Please listen to The very last track on the Wraith. is it called "the Unveiling" this will tell you what ICP is about, they say it plain, it's not about money it's not about fans, it's about getting the word of God out to the Juggalos.
Please be warned there is some cussing in this song, but even my own father a born again Christian who does not like cussing at all, listened to it so he could hear for himself the powerful message behind this song.
This is amazing, after 12 years some people were in shock, and said we were tricked and some said Praise God I knew it all along!
Some turned away and never looked back and some said What, they are for God? why? I need to know what God is about, and they learned and are still learning why ICP brought the message of God to these kids who at one time hated everything in life except ICP and bad imagery.
Now they find Joy and Happiness in the family love and spirit that we all share.

At Juggalofaith we have sermons that the kids can read, we don't always quote the Bible but our sermons are Bible Based, because they need to be able to process what we are trying to teach them, they need it in words they can understand.
I have kids email me all the time and ask me where they find passages in the Bible about certain things, and if I can send them a Bible so they can read it for themselves, and everyday I get a kid who says the world will never understand me but my Juggalo Family does.
They don't judge me for being fat or black or gay or different, we try to teach these kids that it is alright to be different, that God is the one who will Judge us not man, we are told every day that we are evil and satanic, but Jesus said " You will be persecuted for my name's sake."

I have had death threats for trying to teach kids about God and Jesus.
But I would gladly give my life so just one kid or young adult can be saved and make it to Heaven and never have to feel the pain of hell.
I hope that if you've made it this far that I have helped you to have some kind of understanding about ICP and "The Dark Carnival""
There i think no one can explain it al like he does... well im off


HanClinto

Administrator

Posts: 1828
From: Indiana
Registered: 10-11-2004
Juggalette4Life:

Thanks for your reply! It sounds as though this is something very close to your heart, and if people have come to know Christ through ICP, then praise God for ICP!

The *only* thing that I had any beef with that you said was (and I realize you're quoting Rev):

quote:
The Sixth Joker's Card is called "The Wraith" the first version is called Shangri-La this tells you if you believe in God and live a good life and do not do bad ,you will go to Heaven and what you can expect when you get there.

I suppose that's a simple way of putting the salvation message. It's not enough to just believe in God and live a "good" life. I mean, plenty of Muslims do that, plenty of Zoroastrians do that, plenty of cult-members do that, but the main difference is our reliance on Christ's salvation rather than our own good works to save us. Our good works won't save us, only Christ's blood, and our acceptance of that.

So belief in God is necessary, and the need to repent from bad lives and do good will come, but Christ is the Way, and noone comes to the Father but by Christ.

So I'm not saying he's wrong, I just felt a point was under-emphasized.

I liked what you were saying about The Witch. That's something subtle, and it's very interesting. The Devil can be so "cool" nowadays, but by using The Witch as a metaphor, it takes away all of the "cool" factor, while still showing how evil it is. Very interesting.

Thanks a lot for your posts, Juggalette4Life! I've enjoyed reading them, and hearing about what God's with you and others through ICP. Again, before throwing my weight fully behind ICP, I would want to make sure that they have a correct salvation message (I'm not sure one way or the other yet), but I *totally* see what you mean about a need for someone to show love to all of the Juggalos and Juggalettes out there -- there are some really lonely kids out there who need love, and it's great that there's guys out there like ICP who can show them some of Christ's love.

In Christ,
clint

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http://www.includingjudas.com/christiangame.html

Brandon

Member

Posts: 594
From: Kansas City, Mo, USA
Registered: 02-02-2004
Juggalette4life, welcome to the site btw. Hope you stick around! =)

I am totally for people coming to God because they listened to ICP. But my point is this. Don't stop there! Continue to read God's Word, and continue to draw closer to Him. Once someone receives Christ into their lives, that is not the end, but the beginning of the journey. Our lives will change, our outlook on life will change, our filthy language will change, our habits will change. I am saying that if we do repent of our sins, and receive Christ, but then continue to live the way we did before. Then what exactly are we doing? When we are saved we receive a new nature, we are born again. The Fruits of the Spirit will be evident.

I must say though. Keep on reaching people. I am not against that... but remember, God's Word is what we must test all things against. Includig the things that we are taught and believe, and how we live our lives. If you were saved through listening to ICP, then that is awesome! But don't stop there.

------------------
If I were a drummer I would use a cymbal.
If I were a writer I would use a pencil.
I would use my voice if I were a singer.
No matter who or what we are we must praise.

[This message has been edited by brandon (edited May 23, 2005).]

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
its surprising the ways God does lead people to Christ, one friend was lead to Christ through somebody whgo was COMPLETELY backsliden, but knew the stuff, and talking about it, i've seen others who were lead towards Christ by atheists who were talking about it (the details), in an attempt to persuade them NEVER to go near Christ..

God draws, and uses all things together for the good of those He loves, his ways are mysterious, God used pharoah and nebachezer, he probably even used Hitler in some things and many ways, but it doesn't mean that the channel itself is good. if these things are part of the journey of Leading us to Christ, its CHrist and where to from there that is most important.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Realm Master

Member

Posts: 1971
From: USA
Registered: 05-15-2005
See? This is why i don't listen to any music other than PLAIN Christian Rock (And some country, my dad has a LOT of country)

ICP sounds like a bad group to listen too.

Be careful, ICPTHYCARNIVAL and kramit, they probably arn't helping you in your walk with God...

I'd especially like to point out, ICPTHYCARNIVAL, that your Caps Lock button is stuck.

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God rules.

...no duh

CapnStank

Member

Posts: 214
From: Sask, Canada
Registered: 12-16-2004
I dislike the idea of listening to music of a sole genre. Yes you may like it best, but until you've stepped outside and heard what there is to offer you can't really know what fits you best. Sure I'm guessing some of you will try to connect this to my point of view on religion. I can say that I've looked at religion through an open mind and my opinion on it remains the same so don't start a conversation on that.

Just an example... I know that I used to only listen to the radio, loved bands like Led Zeppelin, Metallica and whatnot but I learned that the true talent in music exists outside of the mainstream. Aside from different culture's musics I can say that I've sampled almost everything and I've yet to find a genre consisting of more talent than that of Jazz. I'm not saying its my favorite, but something that I aspire to be able to do some day. Just for the reference Progressive metal, Ska, Alternative, etc. are my top genres. Jazz fits in there because I play quite a bit of jazz myself... you don't learn without sampling the pros.

All in all, don't focus your views on music to a sole genre. Look around, I'd suggest some bands but I could probably put a large sum of money on the line saying that most of you would not agree with me that it fits within the Christian Rock style.

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Jesus is f'ing metal!

Realm Master

Member

Posts: 1971
From: USA
Registered: 05-15-2005
quote:
Originally posted by CapnStank:

All in all, don't focus your views on music to a sole genre. Look around, I'd suggest some bands but I could probably put a large sum of money on the line saying that most of you would not agree with me that it fits within the Christian Rock style.


I LIKE christain rock, its probably the best music out there!

I never did like rap or any of that crud...

This ICP group has me confuseded...

err i mean confused.

SRRY about posting considering earlier posts, i thought it was only 1 page long!

my bad.

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God rules.

...no duh

[This message has been edited by Realm Master (edited May 27, 2005).]