General Discussions

Salvation For a negative Brain.. – Amon



Posts: 30
From: London
Registered: 06-14-2003
How must one treat a person who has commited small crimes, hanous and or immoral crimes? As a beleiver in god I ask. Where is the salvation for a person with a negative mind.

Do we lock them up in jail?, Do we help them find god? Do we treat them with drugs?

None of the above beleive it or not will ever work. The human mind has to be completley altered to a certain model inorder for it to then conform with the norm of society, The norm being for me is, not assisting in the demise of society. If a mind could be altered in such a way it would infact be considered IMO as the murder of a personality. Such an alteration would mean the destruction of negative Neural pathways, negative behavioural structures, all of which have branched off from a central point creating other behavioural structures and other pathways that determine how a person is and how a person reacts to people, situations, themselves, what thoughts are harboured in their minds.

You can control a persons violent or negative behaviours with drugs and therapy or with god and the bible. You can teach them new behaviours and new ways to cope with there negative selves, and to therefore reduce the risk of them offending in any negative way. " Suppression". What you have not done though, is to have removed from them the negativity and the corruption in the mind. You have not taken away the neural pathways and behaviours that are hard set in the brains that cause them to be violent, negative, Anti-social, muderers, self mutilators. The pathways are still there, they are still there and regardless of what new behaviours are created, regardless of what drugs they have been given, or therapy they have had, their soul and their mind will be forever scarred. On the outside they will appear to be well, and will live stable and promising lives in some cases, but inside the mind the torment of good and evil, positive and negative will rage on for how ever long they live. The new positive behaviours they have learnt will be in conflict with the negative ones. All the while this is going on the person is left feeling drained of life and feeling.

The dangers of suppressing such behaviours and mindsets will create a ticking timebomb. A person will have to spend the rest of their life not knowing that maybe one day, these negative and violent emotions and tendancies will release themselves with horrific conciquences.

How does god think of people who have been built to commit violent or antisocial or horrific crimes? They were not born in this way. They were made this way. How does God think of them when their sins do not manifest themselves physically, but instead manifest themeselves in their thoughts and their souls?

A sin is a sin. Whether physical or not. Why should somebody be damned for the way they were made?


The brain of a child soaks up information. It soaks up behaviours and mindsets. A child copies its parents in all that they do. A child is full of questions. A child that has been raised around violence and negativity, has been abused sexually, physically, psychologically will have all this information hardcoded into their minds and it will be learnt. This will hardley produce an adult that is mentally stable.

If crimes are commited, whether hanous or petty, will they be forgiven?
Will God embrace them no matter if they have lived their whole lives in sin and negativity?

Who should be blamed? Why does God not help a new soul in torment?

The human brain is the architect of reality



Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
you have a good point... that's why it is said that ONLY God can change a heart. also, that's sorta another reason why when you become a christian, you're said to be "born again," and your old self "dead."
People who have a "negative" mind aren't freaks in any way, merely more extreme than most. all of us have this nature to do bad things. it's all in degrees. that's the entire miracle of Jesus's sacrifice on the cross and God's love for man.. it's uncomprehendable.

Also, you bring a good point. I'm a firm(well, sorta firm) believer in enviroment influencing behavior. I also believe, God has ordained everything. What we do is no suprise. If I had enough control over your life, I can choose your favorite color, your mannerisms, etc. In a way, we're programmed.
But I'm also a firm believer in responsiblity of actions. If we can't be held responsible for our sins, we don't need a savior. But we need a savior.
God can forgive all crimes, no matter what they did or how they live.



Posts: 14
From: Boulder, CO
Registered: 06-21-2003
I can empathize with the picture you paint, Amon, although thankfully not with mutilative and murderous tendancies. I hope you don't mind me sharing a personal experience on the subject, even if it's not as extreme as your example.

I was exposed to pornography inadverantly by my father at a young age. After that, I began pursuing it. Once at college with a semi-private room and constant internet connection, I became completely addicted to it. I didn't even see anything wrong with it at the time, and pretty much ignored my girlfriend, then fiance, then wife's objections to it. I tried stopping once, but then decided it wasn't a big deal and began again. But whatever caused my susceptability, I was choosing to continue it. It was only when I rededicated my life to Christ that I even saw it for the evil it was, and was given the tools to excercise authority over it.

The tempation IS still there, though. The habit was still in full force when I began my Christian life, and I stumbled many times. I still sometimes dread being left alone with an internet connection at home. But I don't live my life always being fearful. The torment of Good and Evil rages on and I've accepted that it always will. Now, however, Good is on the winning side. A struggle with the nature of sin within oneself is part of the fallen human condition. That does not make me a programmed machine, however. I am a moral agent, capable of choosing good or evil. Christ has given me the power, not to suppress evil, but to overcome it by choosing good instead.

So how does God feel about people like me who are hard-coded for evil? I can state with confidence that He loves us. He's willing to free us from that burden of sin. He forgives us when we stumble and helps us back up to continue walking with him. Had I not been held accountable for my sin, it would still control me. But God didn't simply say, "Well, it's ok because he can't help himself." He loved me enough to hold me accountable, as he does everybody whether their sin is small or great.

Interestingly enough, I happened to read a good article from a Christian perspective about being programmed early on in life this morning. It might be an interesting read for you.

My Web Comic: Code Rage



Posts: 437
From: Sydney, NSW, AUSTRALIA
Registered: 04-03-2003
2 Corinthians 5:17 "Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; the old has gone, the new has come!"


Posts: 408
Registered: 10-25-2002
There isn't that much difference between being the way you are made and the way you choose to be. There are great differences in what people think in both respects, however.
Jehovah God is a god of love and also a god of justice. He doesn't hate those who sin. He does hate the sin, though, and in doing so he is being a fair and merciful god.
If your house was broken into and the theives stole everything you spent your life working to attain, you would be upset, right? We all would be angry over that. But, how does one "be angry and not sin"? It is proper to be angry over the fact that your household was violated; that possibly your wife and children were put in danger of losing their life. It is not proper, however, to seek out those who did that to you and your household and intend to cause harm. You have to think in terms of what Jesus Christ taught us by his example.
In the earthly sense, we have laws for the exact purpose of putting criminals in confinement to prevent them from committing crimes again, and to reform them to hopefully turn them from crime completely. As proven time and time again, this doesn't always work. It is a human system. If you research how the order of kings was started in Israel, you will discover that the people of Israel wanted to have a king because all the surrounding nations had one. Essentially, they chose man to rule over them rather than have God rule over them. God did not create the system we see failing so much today.
Much of what we have today is a direct result of the Old Testament law that God did originate, but, as I just said, was corrupted by man. When Jesus Christ came, one of his purposes was to change the way the Old Testament laws had been convoluted so that the principles of the commandments were what was understood and practiced and not the letter of the law. But still, the Jews were looking for the Messiah to be an earthly king who did things the way earthly kings do, and not the Christ who did things the way Jehovah God does.
For us, as Christians, we have to obey those who are in authority over us. Even when we don't understand in our humanity why we are persecuted in so many countries of the world, we are to trust that Jehovah God is in control, and that in our obedience to the earthly authorities we are furthering the gospel and also speeding the coming of Jesus Christ again.

I've rambled off track for a bit and I apologize. I wanted to state that the only sins that will not be forgiven are those that aren't repented of.
Although Christ did die for our sins and we all have that atonement for sin on our behalf, we don't receive it unless we request it and accept it. Many people can forgive and be forgiven, but some can't bear to accept forgiveness of or for themself. This is one consequence of sin, but it can also be a precious reminder. It can remind us of where we were and where we are. The difference between those two points is up to us.

One final question: If society determines our behavior, then our reactions to society have no affect on our behavior, do they?