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An interesting link and read... – Crptc_Prgrmr

Crptc_Prgrmr

Member

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: 02-05-2002
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/entertainment/6014126.htm?template=contentModules/printstory.jsp

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There's a difference you know, 'tween having faith and playing make-believe. One will make you grow, the other one just makes you sleep...

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine...
(Rich Mullins)

silicon_chippy

Member

Posts: 208
From: Scotland
Registered: 10-26-2002
Wow, that is a really persuasive article. For years we have had faith that the new testament is both factual and relevant. It is good to see that solid proof is being discovered, that we can show to agnostic people. What do other people think of a tree as opposed to the cross?
Jesus died for us, I am not trying to devalue what he has done. However, I have always pictured a cross.

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I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all around me seemed insufficient for the day. ABRAHAM LINCOLN

ArchAngel

Member

Posts: 3450
From: SV, CA, USA
Registered: 01-29-2002
yeah, if someone's gonna question the Bible, they better prepare to be wrong, eh?

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c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
crptc_prgmmr
what do you make of the reference to PARODIES throughout the text?

I am amazed to read of this and when you think BACK to 35AD or 85AD it is quite surprising to realise that parodies of serious gospels would occur

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' seadog maties

Crptc_Prgrmr

Member

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: 02-05-2002
Chiefy,
This is a bit of the point, it seems like God has provided another ironic twist in that the parody actually supports the actual account. When you think about it Satan has always loved parodying the truth...

Silicon_Chippy,
Obviously the important part is that he died and rose again, at the same time confirming his identity by fulfilling all the prophecies.

From the translation I'd say we are talking a cross.
You have to remember that crucifying was a popular way of killing slaves and criminals of the lowest orders in the Roman system. Jesus wasn't the only one to have died on a cross, thousands of sinful people did. The Romans were very good at killing people (they knew that a seperation of blood and water means death, so swooning is absurd). At times they would put up thousands of crosses along the roadsides. Among other things they've found a hand nailed to a piece of a cross. The place of the skull where Jesus died was likely a refuse area outside of town, not a place where trees would grow.

Also, one guy (I believe he was Jewish) leading a bible study on a lot of Jewish culture and language said that it seems that the pattern made on the lentals of the doors in Egypt by the blood of the lambs by the Jews during passover would have been the shape of a cross, another odd coincindence:-)

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There's a difference you know, 'tween having faith and playing make-believe. One will make you grow, the other one just makes you sleep...

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine...
(Rich Mullins)

Thejon
Member

Posts: 10
From: Southlake, TX USA
Registered: 06-24-2003
Hey Silicon_Chippy

"What do other people think of a tree as opposed to the cross?"

I think it definitely could have been a tree. In Galatians 3:13 it says "Christ took away the curse the law put on us. He changed places with us and put himself under that curse. It is written in the Scriptures, "Anyone whose body is displayed on a tree is cursed."

I think it would be fine to take it either way. A cross is made from a tree so it would still fulfill that in my mind. On another thought though, I had heard some different studies on it, and some people think that he was crucified on a big tree with the two guys on other sides of it. The reasons they gave were that in the situation we usually think of or see with 3 huge crosses- it would have already been very hard for the people to breath and they would have had to shout to talk to each other so it seems kind of unlikely that it would have looked like it does in the movies. If they were on crosses then they would have needed to be really close to each other.

Also, about the passover representation of the cross- I agree with it. There are tons of pictures and patterns of Jesus in all of the feasts.

c h i e f y

Member

Posts: 415
From: Surrey, United Kingdom
Registered: 03-07-2002
well that sure is a persuasive article as Silicon Chippy remarked

and now it is being persuasive on another great board too!
check out the wonderful Chaplain Kelly on there, she has a lot to say on your subject Crptc_Prgrmr, her contribution I think says a lot about her, she is a cracking girlie FOR SURE!

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' seadog maties

Crptc_Prgrmr

Member

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: 02-05-2002
Pretty cool Chiefy, glad to know it's circulating, hope some of the people check out this site too.

Also, I should have mentioned but this was pointed to by an organization, Associates for Biblical Research, found at http://www.biblearchaeology.org

I heard from one of their speakers on the evidence for the siege of Jericho by the Israelites a while back, it's pretty neat stuff.

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There's a difference you know, 'tween having faith and playing make-believe. One will make you grow, the other one just makes you sleep...

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine...
(Rich Mullins)

Crptc_Prgrmr

Member

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: 02-05-2002
P.S.
Here's a link this org. has on the cross...
http://christiananswers.net/q-abr/abr-a013.html

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There's a difference you know, 'tween having faith and playing make-believe. One will make you grow, the other one just makes you sleep...

Faith without works is like a song you can't sing, it's about as useless as a screendoor on a submarine...
(Rich Mullins)

Crptc_Prgrmr

Member

Posts: 169
From:
Registered: 02-05-2002
I felt kind of silly 'cause I had to look up the accounts of the crucifixion to make sure I wasn't confusing tradition with what is stated, but...

The account tells that the cross was carried to the place of the skull, so by any stretch it seems that we wouldn't be talking a tree, certainly not one that was planted or could hold three men, as it refers to Jesus' cross being carried (thus being singularly his) and even the lightest trees of any size way thousands of pounds. To go out on a limb on the talking thing:-)...

I don't know, I'm sure it would be quite hard to breath or talk nailed to a tree, which was the point, a slow painful death, but it was done. In fact Jesus talked loud enough for people to mock him as calling on Elijah, as well as comforting Mary (something that bothered me in a Catholic film where Jesus on the cross says "Mary, behold your son" sounding very dramatic and giving the Catholic shove, but totally out of context as this was where Jesus seems to be attempting to console her by telling her to consider one of his disciples whom he loved her son.

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So if I stand let me stand on the promise that you will pull me through, and if I can't let me fall on the grace that first brought me to you. And if I sing let me sing for the joy that has born in me these songs, and if I weep let it be as a man who is longing for his home.
(Rich Mullins)

D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
Yeh it would have been hard to talk and breathe, because your stomach goes up into your chest and you start to suffocate slowly.

Usually they would break your legs after a while, and that would mean complete suffocation, but to fulfill prophecy not a bone on Jesus's body was broken, hence why he could talk and why it took him so long to die.

--D-SIPL

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