Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
"God made man in his image." That is the fundemental force behind the human race. God is a creater, and he created the animals and the trees and the oceans and skies. But he then decided to create something more powerfull. He dicided to create man/woman. Whith the will of his thought he created beings capable of creating, themselves, whatever their imaginations could create. He created beings not tied down with laws and with with restriction. For If it were true that these beings were bound by laws and restrictions then the concept of free will seems to be negated. The power that god gave these beings is the power of free will. The power which god himself has honed and improved. Our will to be free and to choose makes us more powerful than any creature on this earth. The right to decide. The right to choose how we live and how we die. In gods efforts to create beings in his image, has caused the creation of new gods. Man is god, for only man can decide his path. Faith in god is faith in yourself. You alone are the only being capable of shaping your personal universe which surrounds you. The universe which you see through your eyes. You and you alone have the power and the will to change and shape it to your needs. CREATION CHALLENGE REMEMBER -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------ |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Free will is not that unlimited. I have a fish in a bowl. The fish has the free will to choose where to swim within the context of his environment. ------------------ |
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
That is extra scriptural and thus is is wrong. We are not 'gods', God is the only sovereign, self-existing, all powerful being. I challenge you to test your views with Scripture. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
BrianT Granted a fish may have free will. But Lets say for instance that the fish had the ability to manipulate its environment. "Which It doesnt." Would it then not find a way with the power of its will to leave that environment and go where it pleases. Insane Poet We are gods. We have the same abilities as god. We have the ability to create. We have the ability to heal others, We have the ability to imagine. As god creates we create also. Although our power of creation is not as powerful as gods, we are thus still learning the art of creation. Look at all the things around us that we have created. In our young lives as gods thus far today we are able to create buildings, dams, cars, streets, societies. The list goes on. We are able to manipulate our environment. To shape our environment to satisfy our needs. BrianT, a fish does not have the powers we have. so therefore it is dependant on the environment it needs to live in. ------------------ |
Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Psalms 8: 4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him? 5 For thou hast made him a little lower than the angels... Case closed. If you want to have something thats none scriptual. This is it. Man said "We are gods! We can make a man from the earth." Old joke but to the point. |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
Imagine the powers of man 1000 years from now. Look around you and take in what man has created thus far. Then imagine the abilities of man to create 1000 years from now. God creates. God made man in his image. God gave man the ability to create. As we progress our abilities to create progress aswell. If the scriptures say god made man in his image, then that would mean god made man god. Gos as as old as the universe. His abilities through time have given him power. Is it not correct to think that the passing of time will also bring us the same ability. Although we do have it now, it is still in its infancy. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Amon (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: A fish does manipulate his environment. His fins stir the water. That's how it goes where it pleases, within the context of his environment.
quote: No, we have the ability to make, which is different. God created out of nothing. We make out of already existing material.
quote: Of course a fish does not have the powers we have, that's the whole point. A fish has less powers, because it is a lesser being. We do not have the powers God has, because we are lesser beings. We, like the fish, live within our context - we just have a bigger context. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
If you make a boat, have you not just created a boat. You say God created out of nothing. How do you know that? Everything has an essence. if it doesnt then it is nothing. If gos created everything out of nothing? then who created god? ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
100 years ago we were lesser beings than we were today? A 1000 years in the future man would lokk back and say they were lesser beings than we are. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
I challenge anyone to tell me how you can create something from nothing. Even god himself ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
John 1: 1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God. 3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. Revelation 10: 5 And the angel which I saw stand upon the sea and upon the earth lifted up his hand to heaven, 6 And sware by him that liveth for ever and ever, who created heaven, and the things that therein are, and the earth, and the things that therein are, and the sea, and the things which are therein, that there should be time no longer
~Angel~ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: No, I have made a boat. I took existing wood, and nailed it together. Whee.
quote: Because the Bible says God spoke things *into* existence, not just manipulated already existing material.
quote: God is eternal. He was not created, he has always been. That's one of the reasons he is God and I am not.
quote: No, we were not lesser beings. We just had lesser technology.
quote: Hmmm, weren't you earlier saying a god has no restrictions? Seems like if a god can't create something out of nothing, that's a restriction. You challenged us to imagine something we have never seen before - I challenge you to imagine a God that can create something out of nothing. ------------------ [This message has been edited by BrianT (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
100 years ago we had lesser technology yes. but we also had lesser knowledge. Today we know more than we did 100 years ago. So its true that we were lesser. A caveman. was he the same as us. or was he a lesser being. Angel you are quoting references from a book called the bible. who wrote the book? ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
There can be no creation from absolutly nothing. That is the impossibility of the universe. If god made for instance the atom. what did he make the atom from. And the substances that form an atom. what did he make them from. It is nice for you to beleive that god said let there be something from nothing. But I find that an impossibility. ------------------ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: Correct. It was because of this lesser knowledge that we had lesser technology. It doesn't mean we were lesser beings, we were simply the same beings with less information.
quote: Impossible? "tied down with laws and with with restriction"? Your first post argued *against* this, now you are arguing *for* it. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
You say god created out of nothing.!! He "thought" of it and it became. But where is the structure of all of this. Something is always made of something. There isnt anything in this whole universe that isnt made of something. What is god made from? Who created god? You say god has always been around. How do you know that to be true? Angel ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Genesis 1: 1 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. 2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. 3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. 4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.... There is alot more to be read but you should get the point (note: should). You ask me who wrote the Bible. Well then I ask you "who wrote your little tid bit of lunicy"? It had to have been a human but was that human lead by God to write it or by his own whimsical dillusion to stroke his and others egos. Is the idea you are following there to glorify God or yourself? ~Angel~ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: Why? You have just contradicted yourself. You have introduced a law and restriction, which you earlier said we were free from. How do you explain the contradiction?
quote: The Bible.
quote: Men wrote it as they were divinely inspired by God. If God exists, he would want to give us a message, describing his existence, how/why we were created and how he wants us to live, wouldn't you think? ------------------ [This message has been edited by BrianT (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
what is a law and what is a restriction. We were created without none. We ourselves make the laws and we ourselves create the restrictions. God created man and gave man the freedom from laws and restriction. The book called the Bible you say was a book that was written by a man who was inspired by god. How do you know that? Or are you taking the word of a man who has benn dead for a thousand years How do you do the quote thing? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Amon (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
The point of this thread is to help me understand. There are very good points posted by you guys here and yes its true that I might have contradicted myself. The important thing is that the thread is evolving. My ideas about things are not set in stone and are open to debate. Which I am greatful for as you guys are posing question that cause me to think more about my views on life and creation. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
My current views on life, creation and being are not my final views. ------------------ |
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Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
Romans 15:4 - For whatsoever things were written aforetime were written for our learning, that we through patience and comfort of the scriptures might have hope. I would spend more time on this but I must go. God first, then famly, then your neighbor. My wife wants time with me. ~Angel~ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
No prob. Chat with you later. ------------------ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: I disagree. I can imagine myself hovering above the floor, I can imagine curing my cousin of his cancer just by will power, I can imaging stopping time, I can imagine being Neo from the Matrix and flying and stopping bullets, etc. I could try and exercise my "free will" to accomplish these things, yet these things are still impossible for me: I live in a context filled with laws and restrictions, just as my fish does.
quote: I agree and realize that accepting the Bible as authoritative is largely an act of faith. The Bible was written my many men over quite a long period of time. And yet, it is a single complete work, containing truth applicable thousands of years later, and free from contradiction. This is astounding to me.
quote: On each post, there is a little icon with the word "quote" beside it. Click it to respond to a message, and you'll see how it works - it uses the word 'quote' in square brackets to start a quoted section, and the word '/quote' in square brackets to end a quoted section.
quote: No problem, most of us have gone through a similar evolution of thought and understanding as well.
[This message has been edited by BrianT (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
 At the moment Im gonna think. And rethink. My views on life have always been changing. I have never restricted myself to one set of beleifs. As far as you say we have to have faith in the bible well Id have to agree there. But that again may change for me. ------------------ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
No problem. Please continue with any thoughts/questions/challenges whenever you'd like. ------------------ |
BlazeQ Member Posts: 260 From: USA Registered: 05-11-2002 |
quote: Making someone in the image of themselves doesn't mean that they make a clone or exact copy. Leonardo da Vinci made a painting in the image of Mona Lisa, but the painting even though it was great, was flat and lifeless compared to the original. The bible states that God is omnipotent (all powerfull), omnipresent (everywhere), omniscience (all knowing), and never changes. Those are flimsy human terms labeled to God. You cannot put a box around God in what he can/can't do. That's like the goldfish saying of humans: "People just feed & watch fish". They don't see everything and therefore cannot know everything. The same is with humans & God. Just a couple thoughts... ------------------ |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
Dang it. I came in too late. Well, I have to say I agree with all my homies out there, BrianT, Angel, InsanePoet, and BlazeQ.
quote: I can have a picture made in the image of me, but that picture is not me and is not a human. We are in no way "gods." There is one God; that's just how it is... the universe is centered around Him. All existence is because of Him.
quote: I also, challenge you're challenge. Can you imagine a new color? you can't, can you. All you can imagine is a mixture of what you experienced. What goes in comes out. I can imagine something I didn't see, just because I'm creating an image by what I did see. This may sound behaviorist(and in a way, I am), but enviroment heavily affects us. Though, I believe that God gave us freewill in HOW it affects us.
quote: Wrong. We are the same. Just cuz we got higher tech stuff does not make us any better. Not to be mean, but that's extremely arrogant.
quote: yes, it is. But God is outside the universe. It's narrow-minded to believe that this universe is all. There is no limit to God. He is the sole reason for existence. He is not subject to this place we call the universe; it is one of his possible many creations. Doode, He's God! end of story.
quote: not to be getting on your business or hounding you, but... why do people look in "sets of beliefs?" hmmm, maybe it's just me. I look as in Truth or Not Truth. I believe what is true, I don't believe what is false.
quote: that's good... it's important to change from what's false to what's true.
quote: you can click on the "quote" button on some one's message. you'll see how it's done. pretty much the begin with "[quote]" and end with the same, except with "/" before the word "quote," but inside the brackets. to make something bold, do the same, except with a "b". Peace out. Doode, this message is waaaaay too long. I'd never read something this long. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited June 16, 2003).] |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
Looks like I'm too late as well. Amon, you don't believe in God. If you did, you would believe what He said. Humans cannot make life, nor will we ever be able to. Only God can do that, ergo we are not gods. |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
I dont know wether I beleive in god or not. I was born into a greek orthodox family whith god all around us. I used to have the holy cross in my bedroom and used to have the statue of mary by my bedside. I was also christened in church in cyprus my home country. Aside from that something happened. I dont want to go in to detail what it was but since then Ive questioned wether or not there is a god. My faith went from being complete to non existent. I ask my self sometimes "why is my faith gone?" what did i do to deserve what happened to me. I think I blame god for it. Why didnt he help me? All the faith I put in him and in my time of great need he was no where to be seen? At the moment Im a torn soul. Youd only have to look at me to see how much in trouble I really am. I think when i started this thread, I was looking to challenge everybody to prove that god exists. I made a lot of mistakes with my first post and didnt realise it till people started quoting and putting my theory to the test. Ive read what all of you have to say and I can definantly say that it makes sense. Probably my ultimate question would be. How do I get my faith back? any ideas. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
and yes. I looked in the Oxford english Dictionary. "Create" means to create from nothing. So i was very wrong regarding the sentence I made about the boat. ------------------ |
CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
I would like to re-emphasize the point that it is not believed that God is limited to our universe. While humans are limited by the laws of our physical universe, God exists outside of our universe, so he's not limited to the laws of our universe. A rundown of creationist theories of how God may have created our universe are found here (note these are just hypothesis, theories - we don't know for sure how he did it): As far as questions about the validity of the Bible, look here: ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
OK heres one for ya. How can the bibles theory of adam and eve be true? How can you get so many people for just 2. What I mean is that there had to me some major inbreeding going on for the number of humans to increase. And wouldnt the line eventually die out because of this inbreeding. How can you get so many genetically different people born from just 2. You guys are probably gonna say it was god who intervened. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
Ok OK. So we are not like god. But do we not have similar powers. When it comes to controling ones life who really is in control. the one or the god? ------------------ |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
OK, you put in a couple of posts while I was typing.
quote: I suggest you read the book of Job . . . It's a rather long read, as it's mostly dialogue, but Job loses everything. God is nowhere to be seen. A similar situation, I think.
quote: Read the Bible. Pray.
quote: Since Adam and Eve were created, our DNA has degraded over time. Since Adam and Eve didn't have DNA that was degraded, inbreeding wasn't a problem like it is today. Usually, traits are determined by recessive and dominant traits. One trait is dominant, the other recessive. Theoretically, it only takes one human to store all of the traits like this: one recessive, one dominant - we're diploid, so traits come in pairs, with more complex traits being determined by several pairs.
quote: Like creating matter out of nothing? Or raising the dead? I seriously doubt it.
quote: Is this neccessarily mutually exclusive? We do have some control, but ultimately God knows all and controls all. ------------------ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Hey, Lots of people (even lots of people on this forum in the past) lose faith, question, doubt, etc. Getting it back (or even getting it in the first place) is sometime difficult. I hope the discussions on this forum can change some of this for you - at least you're here involved in the discussion, that's a good sign!
quote: This is never specifically explained in scripture, but the "standard" answer is that as Adam and Eve were originally created without sin, and directly by God, they were genetically pure and perfect. The theory is that if they had not sinned, the problems of inbreeding would not likely never exist, and that they would live forever and never physically die. But they did sin, which affected not only their spiritual condition, but all of creation - i.e. the physical world as well. As the result of their sin, Eve would have pain in childbirth: in a physical sense she was subject to the punishment for sin, not just in a spiritual sense. God even cursed the ground because of their sin (Gen 3:17), and the created world waits, as if it were groaning and in pain (Rom 8:22), for when all will be restored and made new. So the theory about the genetics involved is that after they sinned, their physical make up was corrupted in some sense, but not enough to *initially* cause the problems of inbreeding, just enough to allow it to slowly grow into a potential problem after enough generations had passed. This theory of slow decay of genetic perfection might also explain how the early people mentioned in the Bible lived to be hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of years old (Adam lived to be 930, I think), with (on average) following generations slowly having shorter and shorter life spans.
quote: Some powers, yes.
quote: Ah, interesting question. ------------------ |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
Did the knowledge you guys have of such things come from the bible? Also regarding sin. Why did god hold such a grudge on Adam and eve? Why? From what Ive heard he punished them severely for eating an apple from a tree. Why would that cause him such anger. It is only a tree. With fruit that can be eaten. There were other trees with other fruit but god decided to forbid them from eating from a certain tree knowing full well that man is naturally curious. What Im trying to say is that if I was in a garden full of trees and somebody said to me dont eat from that specific tree in my mind I would ask why. What is so special about that tree. Also in all gods power did he not reealise that the fruit from the forbiden tree would be eaten. If he created man then he would obviously know how man would think. He would obviously know that the fruit on that tree would be to tempting to Adam and eve. It would be like asking my daughter, who is a very naughty girlie by the way, ------------------ [This message has been edited by Amon (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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Amon Member Posts: 30 From: London Registered: 06-14-2003 |
quote: So we have only one chance in life and if we happened to stumble on just one occasion into sin then we are forever fallen from gods eyes. Do we not at least in gods eyes get a second chance? Was god angry when he created man? ------------------ [This message has been edited by Amon (edited June 14, 2003).] |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: Well, it comes from God, whether He gives it to us from the Bible, or from our experience, or our teachers. So, why did God do what He did? For one, the apple is God's exhibition of giving us Free Will. He gave us the choice of whether to be with him or not... and Adam and Eve made their choices. (God don't hold no grudges, son...) okay, why is this "sin" such a biggie? well, for one, it's a stain. God is pure, perfect. He cannot allow anything impure in His presense.
quote: haha, pretty much. Yeah, we're jacked, aren't we. quote: How can you clean itself when everything around you is dirty. you might be able to get yourself les dirty, but you will never be able to make yourself spotless. There has to be something pure and spotless in order to take all the "dirt" away. Anything dirty will make you dirty also.
quote: Ahh, yes. That's why Jesus came down here to die for our sins. He became that clean thing necessary to take on all our dirtiness. Anyone who comes to him can be made clean. Does this make any sense? Basically, God gave us Free will, and one thing that comes with it is the possiblity to make a bad choice. ------------------ |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
ArchAngel's response was great. I hope you don't mind if I answer too, and I apologize in advance for the length.
quote: I guess.
quote: It was the disobedience. But you are starting to ask hard questions that have been debated by theolgians for centuries.
quote: Actually, it's sort of the other way around. Since Adam and Eve sinned, bringing sin into the world and thus corruption into both the spiritual and physical world, we are born in sin - we are guilty from the get-go, we are already fallen. The Bible says "the wages of sin is death", in other words because God is perfect and gives life, and cannot accept sin, sin must be paid for with death. When Adam and Eve sinned, they not only brought spiritual and physical death upon themselves, but also onto the rest of humanity for creation itself was corrupted. We all die because we all inherited their sinful condition. That's why in the Old Testament they did sacrificies: they were temporarily paying for their sins with the death of an animal. We don't need to do that anymore because of the reasons explained below.
quote: Because the only way to redeem ourselves is to have the sin paid for, to die. In other words, the only way for us to get out of the consequences ourselves, would be to let the consequences reach their full conclusion! Thus there is no way out of it for us the only way to have it paid for is to pay for it with our very lives, both physical and spiritual - and by making that payment, you have by definition put yourself beyond redemption. Bummer. We're royally screwed, the ultimate catch-22. But wait! God himself has provided a means out of the problem: the same verse that says "the wages of sin is death", also says "but the gift of God is eternal life" - he still loves us and wants to redeem us to fellowship with him (but we cannot have full fellowship while in a sinful condition), that he offers a *gift* (freebie!) of eternal life! We just have to accept the gift, and we are pardoned of our sinful condition in our spiritual condition, and even though our physical bodies will still die, they too will be restored when all of creation is restored when the curse of sin is finally and totally eradicated. But how do we accept the gift? How can God even offer this gift if he's so strict about paying for sin with death? This is where it gets interesting: God sent his son, Jesus Christ to the world, sinless. He was sinless because he was not conceived through the normal means of man+woman, but was conceived by the Holy Spirit in the Virgin Mary. Christ was born sinless, unlike the rest of humanity, and lived a completely sinless life (even though he was tempted!). Christ, who knew no sin, *became sin FOR us* and pay for our sins on our behalf: the perfect, sinless Jesus *died* (death is how sin is paid for) in our place and while we were in our own sin - he had no sin of his own and thus had no sin to pay for, so he died on behalf of those who would let him pay for their sin, so they wouldn't have to pay for it themselves. The Bible says "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son (his son, conceived of God and not of man) that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life"! That's powerful stuff: we deserve death (because we all have sin, and sin needs to be paid for with death) but the price to pay for it is too high to pay for it ourselves. Jesus, sinless, died on our behalf, and we can have our debt paid for if we simply believe that and let Jesus' actions pay for our sins. God offers a simple but amazing gift: he himself died for our sins, all we have to do is believe that and accept the gift and the gift is paid for! If someone doesn't believe and accept the gift, they have to pay their debt themselves.... Once we do believe and accept, we strive to live according to God's will: out of gratitude, because we love him, and because we don't want to displease him by committing more sin. If we *do* sin, we should ask for forgiveness, but Christ's death still is enough to pay for it - if you let Christ pay for your sins, he pays for *all* your sins, not just your past sins. When God looks at you, if you have accepted his gift then he doesn't see a debt being owed for your sin, he sees Christ's blood covering you, your sin washed away and paid for. One day, when God says "it's time to collect on all those debts and get rid of sin for good", he's going to examine each of us, everyone that ever lived. We'll all have to give an account, and settle our debt for our sin. Those that accepted Christ's gift have nothing to worry about, their debt was covered and they recieve eternal spiritual and physical life, eternal fellowship with God. Those that didn't, pay up by suffering eternal physical and spiritual death, eternal separation from God. So, to connect this all to the beginning of this thread, we have a will, a choice. God has given us the ability to understand, reason, and exercise our will. If we choose to surrender our will to him, and accept his gift, we'll become even more "godlike" eventually. If we don't, we're completely hosed, and have no one to blame but ourselves. Sorry again about the length of this post. Brian ------------------ |
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BlazeQ Member Posts: 260 From: USA Registered: 05-11-2002 |
edit: woah, Brian got it in there before me Great post btw. Here are just some thoughts on the topic: It all can get so confusing with rules and religion. The best way is to keep it simple. Jesus said: "Love God with all your heart soul and mind and love your neighbor as yourself. This sums up the law and the prophets". That means that he entire bible comes down to those two things, loving God and everyone around you. What is loving your neighbor? It's not causing harm to him and looking out for the best for him. Most of the time it is hard for us to see what is right or it is hard for us to love him because we are blinded by our selfishness. I'd say that self is our greatest enemy. It's best if we can give everything over to God by praying and saying "God, I and everything I have is yours. Your will be done." On the topic of sin... Look at sin as separation instead of something as "wrong". When we commit a sin, say lying about someone, we are separating ourselves and severing that relationship. The only way the relationship can be repaired is through forgiveness. We destroy the relationship between God and ourselves by doing something God has commanded us not to and therefore we need forgiveness. (as said above by Brian, Jesus is the way that forgiveness is completed. He is the link from God to man.) Hopefully that answers some of your questions second edit: ahh, I past my 200th post without even noticing it! I traced it back to BKewl's birthday. Couldn't have used it better ------------------ [This message has been edited by BlazeQ (edited June 15, 2003).] [This message has been edited by BlazeQ (edited June 15, 2003).] |
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Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Sorry BlazeQ. Your post was great too. I *really* need to learn to be more concise like you guys, I tend to ramble sometimes.  ------------------ |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
Another way to look at it: It seems that God wants us to have a certain freedom: The freedom of choice. While this is a nice freedom to have, it comes with a rather huge drawback: While you can choose to do right, you can also choose to do wrong. God doesn't like us choosing to do wrong, but he won't force our hand. He isn't going to force anybody into heaven, but he'd like to see us there. Yes, I think he did realize that Adam and Eve were goind to eat the fruit. But he also knew that they were doing it out of their own free will - apparently it's the fact that they had the freedom to choose that was important, not the outcome of the choice. That's my opinion. ------------------ |
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CobraA1 Member Posts: 926 From: MN Registered: 02-19-2001 |
Hmmmmm . . . Here's an interesting read on the sin subject: ------------------ |
Imsold4christ Member Posts: 305 From: Gresham, OR, US Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Doh, I'm coming in REALLY late. Oh well. Hmmm. Nice work guys. Less typing for me I guess. A couple notes though. You seem to have quite a few questions regarding creation and stuff. Many of these questions have already been answered on various Christian websites, most notably AiG's (Answers in Genesis) site. http://answersingenesis.org/home/area/qa.asp It'll probably save you a lot of time if you simply look for the answers to your questions there first before asking them here. They do a better job explaining things anyway. Heck, they had sure better, considering that they devote their whole lives to proving this stuff. †Caleb† ------------------ |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
oh i am also late in on this conversation
quote: In a sense you are correct that we are gods - little one. for we are created in the image of God.. but a painting of you is created in your image, but would you say its anything comparable to you? also you are asking us about the validity of the bible to base our views, but you are also basing your views on interpretting that same bible, but you are just looking at a few scriptures, without looking at the whole.. I challenge you to read the whole think, asking God to open your eyes to what it says - it will be a rewarding experience.. Man has created many great things.. But again that ability has been given by God.. and when we create things for evil, such as weapons etc.. is that great? maybe it is great scientifically.. but the one thing that seperates man from God is our evil nature. God is Holy, He always does what is right, He has no evil in Him. However man has evil.. has a sinful nature.. Many men who may be successful creators of great things in the world cannot even have control over some of the simple things in life, like their marriages, friendships, relatioships.. may be addicted to porn, or alchohol etc etc.. its such a paradox.. the greatness of man is not very great really.. the good of man, is there because of God.. Without God we are nothing.. And our ways are so much lower than His, His ways are higher, his foolishness is greater than our highest wisdom.. ------------------ |
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Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
look at the following example.. of course its made up , but its to make a point take a game such as "age of empires".. and lets say that we created an AI that was quite advanced.. the characters could think, we look like humans, we are made in their image, we can create things, we can build things, we can kill things, we can research different scientific things.. we are humans.. and of course us humans are much greater than characters in a computer game... but compared to the greatest, majesty and awe of God.. its a good comparision.. we and all our talents and abilities and infinately smaller than God.. He knows where every atom in the universe is at a given time, the amount of hairs on your head right now.. the amount of hairs on everybody in the whole world's head.. He knows everybodys deepst thought.. all the 6 or so billion of us.. all at once.. He cares and loves all of them.. I don't even have enough seconds in my lifetime to give every human being on this planet a second of my time and attention.. Karl ------------------ |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: eh.. then you get into the definition of "God." Some people define it as a super-powerful, spirtual being. Peace out! ------------------ |
shwuckie Junior Member Posts: 8 From: Perth WA Australia Registered: 07-22-2003 |
hi guys just joined the forums so this is probably too late to bother with lol, but i figured i'd put in my 2 cents in regards to the 'eating the apple from the tree' thang... heres the way i see it, it was a case of disobedience, surely, but i see it mainly as a case of unbelief, God's word is truth is it not? adam and eve were giving the choice of having the knowledge of good and evil or believing the truth (if you eat you shall die etc). interestingly the tree of life was also in the garden... hmm i think this sums it up: man was to live by the truth, man was not meant to live by knowing the difference between good and evil, we didnt need it, and now that we have it, look at what we do with that knowledge. knowing the difference between good and evil does not nor can it save any man, having the truth will save you 'i am the way the TRUTH and the life' cheers ------------------ |
I pray that your eyes would be opened to the truth and the life.
And, as the Bible states, we can not redeem ourselves from the corruption of sin.