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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
Pray For The Salvation Of This Voice Actress I want you to pray for Wendee Lee my favorite Thanks And God Bless P.S. She's Also A Director And |
ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
can do. ------------------ |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
Thank's,Man |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
Um... are you suggesting that people get saved, not because they exercise the free will God gave them in a positive way, but because our prayers can rob them of it ? Presuming this is the case, this person is especially demanding of salvation why ? Because she can act ? Because she is pretty ? Why not pray for the old lady down the street, or the homeless person you walk past every day ? I think the Apostles Prayer is a better example 'thy kingdom come, thy will be done'.
quote: LOL - of course, she's apparently not a Christian.
quote: The Bible says there are many antiChrists, and Daniels 70 weeks ended with the destruction of the temple by the Romans. Is that what you meant ? [This message has been edited by christian (edited June 10, 2003).] |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
For Your Infomation She's My Favorite Voice Actress And I Want To See Her Get Saved. If you Have A PROBLEM WITH THAT christian ,Than Don't Pray. |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
Oh And christian,PRAYING FOR PEOPLE DOES NOT ROB THEM OF ANYTHING. |
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
quote: A person is only saved by God excersizing is soveriegn grace. Freewill huh? I don't find that in scripture. ------------------ |
D-SIPL Moderator Posts: 1345 From: Maesteg, Wales Registered: 07-21-2001 |
I believe God can soften someones heart. --D-SIPL ------------------ |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
hey steve. don't worry about christian. he's kinda like that. you learn to love him, tho. You can get in some deep debates with; it's all cool. The bible(paul, specifically) commonly refers to people as God's elect. I believe that both Freewill and God's control over can exist together. Say you have two nonparallel lines; they appear to intersect, but at one point, they come together. This is an old discussion, back to Calvin and probably before. edit: Oh, yeah. InsanePoet. The bible doesn't really clearly show that Freewill exists. neither does psychology. it's kinda of a common view people have. Though, I believe in freewill because it implies it in the Bible, is the only way that I can think of that allows responsiblity of actions, and it glorifies God even more. [This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited June 10, 2003).] |
Briant Member Posts: 742 From: Stony Plain, Alberta, Canada Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: If you say freewill does not exist, then I literally have no choice but to disagree with you. ------------------ |
BlazeQ Member Posts: 260 From: USA Registered: 05-11-2002 |
quote:lol, I like that one. I'll have to remember it  ------------------ |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
I'm simply trying to suggest that God wants EVERYONE to be saved, and that what they need is the opportunity to hear the Gospel and choose to follow it. the God chooses us vs. free will conundrum is a confusing one, but both are true. He chooses us, yet we seem to have the choice to choose Him. Either way, I just feel that praying for the salvation of a stranger simply because they have a talent you like is a little odd. |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
"praying for the salvation of a stranger simply because they have a talent you like is a little odd". NOT!! Praying For Strangers Is as Equally Valad As Praying For People You Know And Love. I'm Not Dissin' Your Feelings Brother, I'm Just telling You That No mater Who it Is,You Can Pray For ANYBODY...Encluding Strangers and yourself. |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
quote: Of *course* it is. Byt why THIS stranger ? Because you like her acting ? Is that a basis to single someone out ? Either way, perhaps you should try to get the Gospel to her, instead of 'just' praying about it ( not saying prayer is ineffectual, but it all comes down to presenting the Gospel in the end ). My point was that it seems odd to single one person out, not that we should not pray for revival at all. And for the person who said there is no free will, start in the OT where God told His people to choose life. If you don't believe we have free will, you don't believe in the need to preach the Gospel, and I don't see how that can work. |
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nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
Everyone needs prayer. There is nothing wrong with sharing a particular request with others, especially when you do so naturally expecting they will pray regardless of understanding why. If I feel burdened to pray for someone, it is only the Christian thing to do to share that burden with others I think would help bear that burden also. Something about joining together in the name of God comes to mind here |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
Fine, throw as much religious terminology at the question as you like. A 'burden' to pray for someone ? Seriously, I'm not seeing any comments to make me feel my initial thoughts are wrong. And instead of generating some interesting discussion, it seems all the responses are knee-jerk ones, on the basis that my statements were not feelgood religious enough. I'm not dissing prayer, or the idea of wanting to see others saved, I just thought it a little strange that... well, never mind. No-one is going to seriously discuss it, I can see that. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: My just be me, but it seems like you're twisting his words. I feel burdened to pray for people; it's an urge to pray, something you have to do.
quote: Well, thanks man!  Just cuz a response doesn't seem good to you, doesn't make it a bad response. It might just be ineffictive to you. Just blurting that out. I can see how you think it might be "strange." He doesn't know this person, he singles her out cuz he likes her talent and she isn't bad looking at all. And I know that you're not undermining prayer and stuff. ------------------ [This message has been edited by ArchAngel (edited June 11, 2003).] |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
Well, we seem to be discussing this now, of which I am glad. What you seem to be suggesting is that God has given this guy an urge to pray for her, so that she can be saved. Doesn't that imply that his prayers are needed for her salvation ? What I'm also suggesting is that it's so easy for Christians to become religious. Praying that a person be saved is a poor substitute for looking for a way to present the Gospel to them, and singling out a stranger to pray for is a poor substitute for seeking opportunities to present the word of God and asking Him to provide those opportunities and to lead us to His sheep. You seem to have got my point, which I am glad of ( it means I made some sort of sense ). I don't mean to attack the original poster, I'm just suggesting in general that there are better ways to look at the situation, and respond to it. That's just my opinion, which is why I hoped to discuss it. |
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nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
Hmm. My terminology wasn't an attempt to sideline the issue, but I can see why you took it that way, Christian. It is obvious that you aren't arguing the value of prayer or salvation, etc. But you sure do seem to ask questions that beg some logical definition or answer in order for you to accept the reason this person was singled out for prayer and salvation. God doesn't have to make things clear to us although He certainly tries. Jesus taught so many principles that explained the basis for the Law and yet many of the people that heard him never understood what he meant. It certainly wasn't because Jesus couldn't communicate clearly. Have you ever been doing something common to your daily tasks and suddenly thought about a friend or someone you met recently or even long ago, wondering how they are doing and such? This is what I meant be having a burden to pray. I look at those moments as promptings by the Holy Spirit to lift up someone who needs it. It doesn't imply that God is not meeting their needs or anything of the sort. To be perfectly honest with you, you made several conclusions upon conclusions there my friend - and the manner you did so really concerns me as to how you understand some things. I hope my observation was subjective to this discussion however. The Lord will use the ways of the foolish to confuse the ways of the wise - does that ring a bell? Prayer over something seemingly trite to us may actually be a serious issue for the person in question. It is entirely possible that this individual is seeking a way out of some environment that has overcome her and which she sees no hope, in which case this request has every bit of merit as walking up to her face to face and presenting her the Gospel. Sometimes prayer is the only resource available to a person to minister to others. God's ways are not our ways. I guess my main point is that you don't look at prayer as an escape mechanism from being bold in the message of the Gospel. I believe your point was clear - that it is better to be bold with the Gospel than pray someone hears the Gospel. I agree; but, considering we only know what we know, why question what we don't know and assume we do. God bless, [edit: typographical error] [This message has been edited by nfektious (edited June 11, 2003).] |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
In Any Case, Praying For Her Salvation(as well as salvation for other famous people)Is A Good Thing. Well,Shall We Move On To Somthing Else, I'll Be Posting A New Topic Soon. Thanks and God Bless |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
I agree with most of what you said, nfectious, but I don't believe that every random thought we have is a prompting from God to do a particular thing. Of course, it's never bad to pray, we agree that is the case, obviously. I certainly think you're still coming to the point of God promting me to pray for a stranger so He can save her, which I don't believe to be the case, nor do I think it's what you meant, but that is how it reads. |
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nfektious Member Posts: 408 From: Registered: 10-25-2002 |
quote: I wouldn't believe that either if I assumed every thought I had was random. Sorry mate, couldn't resist that one and am just messing with you. Take it all in good fun as intended quote: I never meant it that way, and I can see how you can read it that way - seeing as how I used the words "someone you met recently or even long ago". I didn't mean someone you say "G'day" to as you pass them on the street in Sydney or such and don't know them at all. I think there is some slight confusion over praying to God that someone is saved. I'm not saying that God needs us to pray for someone to be saved in order for them to actually be saved. God can convict them and lead them to someone who will share with them the Gospel if He wants to do that; if you don't believe that how can you explain some people even stepping foot in a church? I don't think Steve meant it this way either. I am familiar with the expression "please pray for (someone) so they will be saved" or "please pray for (someone) so they will hear the Gospel". It is a common expression. The idea behind these statements isn't to direct God's attention to that person as if He is unattentive or unaware of the needs of His own creation; rather, it is to lift that person up before God to bring their needs to Him, to intercess on their behalf. Yes, Jesus is our intercessor - to cover our sin so we can have a child-father relationship with God. In turn, and as an example, we as Christians are to be steadfast and diligent in our intercession for others - saved and unsaved alike. Here's something to consider that relates to this principle: look at how the Priests in the Old Testament would call upon God to fill the Temple or the Holy Place of the Tabernacle. God is omnipresent, right? So why did the Priests do this? God bless, |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: Maybe. But,as christians, we take orders from God; we don't go vilante and do our own stuff. Obedience is better than sacrifice. If God is saying to share the gospel with her, then, yes, by all means, do it.
quote: That raises an interesting question. Then, to push that argument even further... Why even pray? God knows what we're gonna pray about before we know. For one, it's beneficially to us to pray. secondly, God doesn't need us to do anything, He's omnipotent! He's God! But it further glorifies Him that we pray, that we do work, that we blah blah blah. ------------------ |
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Christian Member Posts: 400 From: Australia Registered: 09-15-2002 |
quote: We pray to participate in our relationship with God. I hope we don't pray just to deliver our wishlists. |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
"We pray to participate in our relationship with God. I hope we don't pray just to deliver our wishlists." What kind Of Stupid Comment Is That. I'm Doing It For Both Of Us. |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
quote: It isn't a stupid comment; sadly, many people just pray for selfish reasons. ------------------ |
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Steve Member Posts: 46 From: Staten Island ,Ny Registered: 08-10-2002 |
Sorry |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
t'sall good. There's no hat'n. Don't be hat'n... ------------------ |
BluePaladin Member Posts: 110 From: Tennessee, USA Registered: 12-27-2002 |
Christian is the only guy I know who can start an arguement when someone asks for prayer. Simply amazing. Man that guy likes to argue. ------------------ |
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ArchAngel Member Posts: 3450 From: SV, CA, USA Registered: 01-29-2002 |
haha. my dad can start a debate with not much more... though I'm not disrespecting him in anyway; he's a smart guy. It was always a pleasure to argue with christian. ho boy. ------------------ |
:P