what I found was severely depressing

I made a few posts but quickly found to my total disappointment that these young ppl continually and routinely use obscene language as the norm

I could not resist the thought to challenge this uncivilised behaviour but their behaviour simply escalated

my daughter was not pleasantly surprised by my "joining" this forum, instead she chastised ME for being such an out-of-step Dad

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ENTER the chiefyDUNGEON

Curry

Words represent the expression of individuality. More than that basic truth, words - whether written or spoken - convey a degree of authority and power at that individual level. For example, the phrase "I am better than you" conveys the belief that the person speaking is superior intellectually and/or physically than the person(s) being spoken to. The same phrase also reveals at least one principle element in the speaker's individual character: pride. You could infer that the individual in question might also exhibit character elements of anger, hate, selfishness, prejudice - among others - if this person were to state those words as a result of someone else exhibiting ignorance on an issue or some other admittance of inferiority.
The same phrase used with words that refer to the reader/listener in a derogatory or severely negative and damaging manner - such as idiot, moron, stupid - make the interpretation and purpose of the phrase clearly meant to subject the reader/listener to feel not only inferior but also worthless as a human being.
Another example of this is the use of the same phrase with curse words. Many people assume such words are considered curse or swear words by society or influential people who have authority over what is good and what is bad. A curse word is such because it is a word that by definition means harm to some thing (person, animal, or other object that can be harmed to cause it to be less than it was before cursed). Many times the terms "curse" and "swear" are used interchangably in reference to certain words being "socially unacceptable" when in fact they have different meanings. To curse means to wish evil against some one or some thing; to swear means to promise or pledge to do something, usually before a witness or witnesses (often a deity or other sacred person or group) to confirm the pledge or promise is an honest and truthful one. Often a curse and a swear are used together, and this is generally where the misconception of the two begins. For example, the expression "God bless" is a swear; on the other hand, the expression "God damn" is both a swear and a curse.
The danger of both is that either can be used when a person is emotionally exasperated. Since the emotions can cause a person to act or react to a situation quickly, and usually without any rational thought, it is best to avoid cursing and swearing altogether. Many people find this concept silly and ridiculous, and usually those people are the type who do not understand what I just explained.
Humanity is designed for everyone to want acceptance and fellowship. The majority of people will engage in lifestyle choices for the purpose of acheiving acceptance and fellowship. Sadly, the most difficult times are at young ages, though some people experience this longing throughout their entire life. It is important to understand the philosophy behind the various cultural peer groups in order to become involved with people who want to develop positive relationships with others versus peer groups who develop negative relationships with others. The danger of being in negative relationships with others is that, over time, the people who you think you want to be like or associate with still live to develop negative relationships with others. Even though you have some degree of social status, you are still included in that category of others. It is inevitable for you to experience the negative side of the negative peer group.
These truths are evident throughout all of History. Many of the most famous people in History have been involved in one of the two peer groups. Those involved in positive relationships with others left behind a legacy of good. Those involved in negative relationships with others left behind a legacy of evil. Some of those legacies continued on through those individual's family. It is important to realize that every decision a person makes will follow them not only through their entire life, but also beyond. What you do not only affects you, but those around you, and even those who come after you are gone.
Perhaps the most extreme examples of the power of positive relationships and negative relationships is this:
1. Who can you think of who best represents a person who had positive relationships with others?
2. Who can you think of who best represents a person who had negative relationships with others?
I would answer question 1 with Jesus Christ. Regardless of the spiritual elements of his life, History proves he was a good person and that he positively influenced those around him to live their own life better.
For question 2 I would have to answer Adolf Hitler. Regardless of the fact that he had millions of people killed in the most treacherous way possible, History proves he was an evil person and that he negatively influenced those around him to do evil to others.
Christ used words that were beneficial to others. Hitler used words that were beneficial to himself. Christ lifted up others and helped them understand. Hitler put others down, lifting himself up, and chose to kill those who needed help.
Words represent the expression of individuality. Who is putting words in your head and whose words are coming out of your mouth? If your words reflect something other than who you want to be, then shouldn't you consider what you say?

Cheify, my prayers are with you.
God bless,
Matt

And to extend into the parenting part: The reason your daughter chastised you may be because she feels that you invaded her privacy, similar to listening into a phone call or walking into her room without knocking. Your intentions may have been just to check up to see how the place is (she may view it another way, such as spying on her), but in all actuality she’ll still go there even if you express if you don’t want her to, if she makes that choice. If you really want to know what your daughter is on different standings then have a solid, open relationship with her. Not anything like ‘it’s time for a talk’ every week or so, but more so like a friends relationship. Progressively she’ll open up to you and maybe one day she’ll say something along the lines like “I visit this online forum and I noticed that they swear a lot, I don’t agree with that so I left the forum” or “I don’t agree with that but I don’t know what to do because I enjoy talking to the people there”. It’s interesting to be a parent, trying to guide your child the best you can, it’s difficult.

One of my parents used to do (and still sometimes does) the ‘lets sit down and talk’ where it felt like a interrogation right from the start ‘where are you spiritually?’ ‘what do you think of sex before marriage?’, it’s taken me a while of talking to them to get them to approach discussions a lot softer and as such, they are starting to enjoy a open relationship with my sister. Another example would be one of my Fiances parents, who forces their view on you as ‘the only way’ and if you don’t follow that way then something is very wrong with you (because they are always correct). This individual for example has expressed several times to Charmaine (my Fiancé) that they don’t agree with our relationship and such have made it very hard for the both of us. In addition to that and their controlling nature, it has driven a massive wedge between Charmaine and them. It frustrates me a lot to see this happen and also to see similar events happen between people (especially in families). Be open, loving, understanding, gentle, controlling yourself, set an example, while not compromising your belief structure. Something that I try to follow the best I can, it helps a lot in the end.

The best to you in this situation, I really hope things turn out great in the end!

God bless,
Matt

quote:

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c h i e f y:
my daughter was not pleasantly surprised by my "joining" this forum, instead she chastised ME for being such an out-of-step Dad

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Ahhh... yes... I can relate... though not as in like "shame on you chiefy," but understand the mindset.

First of all, how can your daughter chastise you? You're her dad! She can try (to be honest, I do that sometimes, too).

Sometimes, it's wierd to have a parent do things with you. especially in public. (I'm just saying how it feels, not how it should be) The age gap also makes it sorta harder to relate. To be honest. I don't really do much with my parents in public, but at home, we do more. sometimes my dad and I play comp games over the LAN. That's fun. and other stuff.

And the language, what can I say... Not good stuff. It makes them look kinda, well, verbally challenged. especially when they use it all the time.
I have to be honest, I never cussed/cursed/swore, but I use expletives alot. Bad ArchAngel *slapping myself* I usually use it as an interjection, but sometimes I call people "stupid" and stuff. (e.g. My sister.)

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

I'm hoping that was not a Christian forum, but either way, it's a bunch of kids acting in ways they will recognise as pathetic in 5-10 years time. I reckon I'd be disappointed if I found my daughter talking like that, but at the same time, I can see why she'd be upset. How old is she ? I'm guessing (hoping) teens ? If posting on that forum is the worst thing she ever does, then you've succeeded as a parent. Either way, I'd agree with those who have spoken about building friendship and open communication, so she can talk to you about any issue and know the response will be rational, and caring. I know it's hard, it's hard for me, and my daughter is 7. I can't believe some of the stuff that she comes home with, but because we communicate, we can deal with it, and I can give her my perspective of what she hears in the school yard.

Good luck, man. Parenting is the best job in the world, but it's not always easy.

I guess I should add that language is in a constant state of flux. What is shocking to one generation is the norm to another. Inside the church, we must be all things to all men, and so should not swear at all, not offend anyone of any age. But if it's not a Christian forum, you need to bear in mind that how they speak is not necessarily offensive to people of that age, and probably exists in part to be a barrier to entry to older people, as this generation seeks to define itself. How that relates to your daughter is, of course, another thing.

[This message has been edited by christian (edited May 22, 2003).]

ok: Curry "this kind of talk is very subversive" ...hehe you are even more effected than ME then ! I feel your stance is a little severe there, but thanks for the 'agreement' I know where you're coming from!

nfektious - I read your replies very close and a couple of times, one thing that caught my eye was your example on Hitler. Quite correct, BUT now the tricky part .... he was elected by the German ppl and was he AT THAT stage totally evil? or was he .... as time went on .... taken in by "the dark side" ?

nobody argues that he was evil, but it occurs to me that his intentions for Germany "started" in concrete, but slithered into "hell" as his moral fibre failed him more and more, power corrupts, total power corrupts totally

thanks for your prayers Matt, you guys are just tops

Mack, I so much agree with your first sentence, what you said there is the CRUX of the whole situation, so true man!

and it was interesting but sad, to hear of your Charmaine's (what a lovely name!) parents' attitude (I bet you'd swap my problem for yours eh? ) I hope they slowly come to see the light my friend, really

Arch, I loved to hear that your Dad and you play over the Lan, THAT is so great fun to do. When the PSX came out in 1995, I very quickly bought a SECOND PSX and the connector cable to link 2 TVs and play playstation LINK UP games with my son, great great bonding stuff that, marvellous and not "too" expensive, considering what you get either

Christian, thanks for laying down the line my friend, but I feel that it should not have been left to me to do the "berating"

As you say yourself, it's A PUBLIC FORUM on there. Anybody of any age can log on and see that stuff

Their own moderators or any other member SHOULD have had the bottle to challenge that stuff but no, nobody said a word

not the administrator, not a moderator .....NOBODY

it follows then that all on that site ACCEPT that standard of behaviour, OR are too intimidated to speak out, which is worse?

I have got to admit that at the time I put this problem of mine onto 2 other message boards I love apart from this one

but CCN is the best response of the lot, now shouldn't I have guessed that?

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ENTER the chiefyDUNGEON

quote:

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Christian, thanks for laying down the line my friend, but I feel that it should not have been left to me to do the "berating"

As you say yourself, it's A PUBLIC FORUM on there. Anybody of any age can log on and see that stuff

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I've since realised it's a forum for a horror book. I view the Internet like a library that has no censorship. If I go to the library, I only go to the aisles that have books I want to read.

Any public forum will reflect the values of it's creators and it's members. Some people's values include abhoring censorship, so it's possible the authors don't like what is being posted, but have no moderation in place. Really, control over what children see is in the hands of parents, the Internet is self regulated, and often by people who have no interest in morals or what is considered correct behaviour. I don't mean that comment as directed at you in this situation, if she's read that book, she's at an age where she has to learn to censor herself, I was thinking more of my situation, as my 6 year old uses the web a lot ( the Barbie site is a current favourite ).

Personally, I'm glad the web is not censored. I don't visit sites where people act in ways that would offend me, but if it was controlled, who is to say where the control begins and ends. I'd rather have freedom to talk about the Gospel freely, and let other people be free to act however suits them, I'll just stay away if I don't like it.

It's certainly a complex situation, I hope it leads to some positives between you and your daughter.

I, personally, don't feel like offending people is that big of a problem.(though I try not to do it, but, that's just a slight issue in the issue.)
I don't get offended by what they say, I get heated over they're ignorance. I don't care about me getting offended, but what "offended" me.
something like that.

P.S. CCN ROCKS, doesn't it?

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

taking a look and reading some of these posts on this web site, it sorta looks or feels like a cross between a rap and gothic discussion forum.
Yes and true, their language does bother me. It seems to me some of them cuss cause to be noticed and for attention, lot of pent up anger and upsetness(thank goodness they don't change into the Incredible Hulks ), and to be "bad"+"weird"+"rowdee" without mom or dad or even big sis/bro around, and for the "in thing" to do.
All discussion forums have their bad apples along with their good apples.
But this forum seems a lot rotten to the core. Thank goodness, its not
a Ozzy Osborne and family forum nor a Marilyn Manson discussion forum.
I will stick with web sites and forums like christian coders, khouse.org,
worthynews.com, wnd.com and hallindseyoracle.com and crosswalk.com too.

Your bro,

Samson2

quote:

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nfektious - I read your replies very close and a couple of times, one thing that caught my eye was your example on Hitler. Quite correct, BUT now the tricky part .... he was elected by the German ppl and was he AT THAT stage totally evil? or was he .... as time went on .... taken in by "the dark side" ?

nobody argues that he was evil, but it occurs to me that his intentions for Germany "started" in concrete, but slithered into "hell" as his moral fibre failed him more and more, power corrupts, total power corrupts totally

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election by force isn't really election is it? Hitler tried to be something other than a politician; at one point in his life he was a struggling artist. He was very accomplished and painted some nice scenes; the only issue that he couldn't get past was losing out on gaining a position in a prominent art academy because he couldn't paint people very well. He gave up painting as a result of the criticism, and turned to other pursuits. Would he have been the monster he turned out to be had he continued painting? Only God knows. Regardless, he chose to be what he became. You don't just turn evil to the degree Hitler was, it's a path of choices one makes to end up like he did.
Sin grows stronger when it is fed. Starve it (avoid it) and it has no power. Of course, that is only possible with God in your life.

Matt

Now I love my child dearly but if she wants to live by her own rules then she can live on her own. Your the man of the house and your say should be respected. I dont know if it is or isnt but my child wouldnt get a chance to chastize me as you put it. I would clear her up of any net priveleges and many others.

~Angel~

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Angel:
Personly I would say the place is more rap oreiented.

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Yeah! heh heh. Like that Parappa guy. sorry, it was kinda funny.
though I sorta talk like that... (not referring to parappa)
How I talk is a conglomeration of many things... it's confusing.

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...