Bottom line is that life is too darned busy to keep up with everything.

The point of the CCN was to be a place where Christian developers could get together and help each other with coding stuff. Games, business, net, whatever. Games was sort of a focus because that's what I'm into, but doesn't matter.

It has since turned into a debate the various facets of Christianity board. This is okay, but it really wasn't the plan for the site. Now, to be fair, I have been less than available to keep things on course, and I take full responsibility. But as it stands, the site really isn't a coding site, so I'm not sure what to do with it.

Choices are (as I see them):

a) Yank the coding stuff and just make it all boards. I don't have time to moderate all that would entail, though, and it would (frankly) bore me to tears to run.

b) Re-focus the site to be a DEVELOPMENT site. This means that I would pull only the development stuff to the main page and leave all the other stuff ("speaking in tongues", "pornography", etc.) to be in the forum. Fully accessible, but not front-page material. I would then make it waaaaaay easier to put up articles for people, etc. But they would be development artilces.

If I do this, though, that would mean that it would revert to what it was originally intended to be: A place where Christian developers could go to seek help with their projects from people that (hopefully) won't blast them just because they're Christians.

c) I kill the entire site. I don't want to do this, but as it stands, it's rather pedantic and has very little to do with coding.

To be honest, if I don't go with B, I'm going with C.

Thoughts?

-Krylar

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[This message has been edited by Krylar (edited April 28, 2003).]

I have to be thankful for this place code wise in one way. I bumped into some great people here from time to time. BP is one of them and he and I are working on a game. We have just found that most people here want to talk and put in little effort or they dont have the time or they dont have the knolage or the programs or blah blah blah, the excusess go on and on.

Im not bashing anyone here. I know many of you have good intent and some of you are actuly doing things

Anyways Krylar I hope you go with b" but if not consider my idea at the top.

~Angel~

Eather way you be Blessed
~Angel~

I would certainly first offer it up to someone else before just shutting it down, but I would kill it from my list-o-things.

So, I guess what I'm asking is this: Do you guys see the CCN as something that could really be useful for Christian Coders to get together on and support each other on coding issues...or do you think that's just going to be a flop? Be honest. Don't be rah-rah or motivational, tell me what you guys really think of this.

I'm willing to update the code to be more usable and such so people can share their knowledge via tutorials/articles/etc. And I'd be interested in getting back in to writing some myself. But only if people think it's really going to be useful.

So please be honest with me about this, because it will require a LOT of work and time is something I really don't have an ample supply of. If it's useful/helpful/etc., I'm all over it. If not, then I'll open the doors for someone else to take things over.

Thanks,

-Krylar

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I'll also stop posting in debates - I know I've been a somewhat active debater sometimes. If you want to keep the boards about development, that's fine with me. This is, after all, Christian Coders Network. I'd hate to see c) happen.

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There are only 10 types of people - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

I have not been very active on the boards lately, partially because of the exact concerns you have expressed. I've had more than my fill of 'debate' threads, mostly on other boards, and have been entirely avoiding boards that are dominated by them, both here and elsewhere.

But I still think the CCN is awesome, and has awesome potential. Option B makes me cheer. Options A and C make me cry. I got really soured on another debate board several months ago, and am now actively avoiding debate threads where ever they are. They only make me cranky, and waste my time -
time I should be spending coding!

Actually, guess what I was doing when I saw this thread: I was sitting at the computer, wearing my CCN T-shirt, and coding for a project that I became involved in thanks to you and this board (you referred "Paul" to me recently with his hockey project, and I'm pumped about this - by the way, I apologize for never thanking you for sending him to me. )

I apologize for not being more active here lately. I remember being very excited when I first found your site and shared your vision a couple years ago. But life has kept me busier than I would have liked, and I let my interest in this site and its direction slip. However, I have been busy coding a range of projects for myself and others, and I really have quite a bit of interesting/useful code developed over the last while. Some HANDY stuff about DirectX, OpenGL, MFC, general algorithms, etc. Also, several months ago I took a 40-hour Windows debugging course from John Robbins (author of MSDN's "Bugslayer" column, and originally one of the developers of BoundsChecker) that was FREAKING AWESOME. A lot of this info should be passed on to the rest of the people here, it's great stuff. I really should put together some snippets/samples/tutorials for your code database - that's one area of the site I'd really like to see explode.

Anyway, I for one am all for a 'back to basics' CCN - a CCN where coding is by far the dominant theme. I don't mind the occassional theological side-topic, but there are already 18 million Christian discussion and debate boards out there and I'm sick of all of them. CNN is one-of-a-kind, and I want my CCN back!

Brian

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[This message has been edited by Briant (edited April 28, 2003).]

I'm a Christian. thus, I love Christ.

I'm a geek. Thus, I love to code.

I often need assistance in my coding or finding other coders to help with projects. Thus, I need help.

Put them all together...

Christ + Code + Others = Christian Coders Network.

There ya go.

Okay, people...hope you're ready for this cause the geeky coder-types are taking back the site! :P There will still be a topic for Christian debate, but it won't be on the main page. I'm going to start leaning this site heavily toward coding again and will work on making it more robust and all that.

[me]takes a deep breath![/me]

-Krylar

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But, don't worry, I'll make it as easy as I can

-Krylar

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Streamlined layout: http://www.creationindigital.com/ccn.html

Basically you could make it into three sections with several sub-sections. Instead of featuring the Showcases, articles & discussions on the front page, you could give each sub-cat above a fair amount of space (whether a plug or the latest submissions or both). Otherwise it's hidden and doesn't get much traffic (e.g. the code, links, & worklog sections). I think the idea of pulling the topics from general chat and the others from the front page is good one.

Also, I think getting several helpers to approve submissions, moderate & search for new stuff on the net is key to helping CCN grow and become a greater help to devs.

My $.02,
BlazeQ

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I'm out of my mind... and into the mind of Christ -G.S. Megaphone

[This message has been edited by BlazeQ (edited April 28, 2003).]

quote:

---

So, I guess what I'm asking is this: Do you guys see the CCN as something that could really be useful for Christian Coders to get together on and support each other on coding issues...or do you think that's just going to be a flop? Be honest. Don't be rah-rah or motivational, tell me what you guys really think of this.

---

But i believe God has a purpose for this board, and since He has a purpose its wisest to get that purpose from Him directly.

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

quote:

---

Originally posted by CobraA1:
b) I'll also stop posting in debates - I know I've been a somewhat active debater sometimes.

---

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' maties

[This message has been edited by c h i e f y (edited April 28, 2003).]

I can see that the recurring arguments on the forums are a problem. They happen because we're not a unified community, that is, we disagree on matters as serious as salvation, and that seriously limits our evangelical capability. But I can't see how you can fix that without becoming a gated community.

Maybe we need to be more accountable to each other - so we're not posting stuff that's going to discourage people from coming forth with their prayer requests and letting themselves be open and vunerable. A CCN statement of beliefs? You could have parts of the forum that are accessible only to subscribers of such a statement. Just an idea.

But I do think we should be striving to make this site evangelical. Afterall - the christian games being developed here, are timewasters if they are not evangelical.

Finally gotta thank Krylar for the time and effort that he has put into this site that we all take for granted. Nice work bro !

Not saying that the threads will go away, it's just not the theme of the site. I believe it was through the prayer that this site came into being. It is *I* that have not kept with the proposed purpose.

I allowed it to drift into just another Christian-debate site. I'm not saying that there's anything wrong with that, but it was never the intention of this site to be that. It was for coders, who happen to be Christian, to get together, network, help each other, etc.

You'll still be able to debate issues that you feel you wanna, and I'll happily give moderator status to someone who wants to moderate that section of the boards. But it's time for me to return this site to what it was intended for, and that's coding.

-Krylar

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I have an answer to the prob. Why not have a posting aria for those who are looking for help or to be of help in projects. Make it only for that.

Just an idea.
~Angel~
(I dont have much time to spend here now adays but this is a place to hook up with some great team mates)

oh, and C must not happen!

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

I dont really post very much (as you can see from my numbers :)) But also I dont really know very much on a coding basis... I love to code, but I am so new at it. What I mean to say is "power to the geeks!" and all but by changing the website will you not allow new programmers like me to get help?

Also, just out of curiosity... I am taking a Java Programming class at school... would you guys like me to post source code of my little one page programs to help those that are just starting out in Java or for constructive criticism?

I really do love this site and it is normally the site I first visit when I get online so I just want to say thanks a lot Krylar for your work! and whatever God wills you to do I am all for it... (also I like B but hey that is just my opinion :)

God Bless ya'll!

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Hebrews 12:28-29 NIV
"Therefore, since we are receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, let us be thankful, and so worship God acceptably with reverance and awe, for our 'God is a consuming fire.'"

Matthew 11:18-19 NIV
"For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Here is a glutton and a drunkard, a friend of tax collectors and "sinners."' But wisdom is proved right by her actions."

Every man has a battle to fight, an adventure to live and a beauty to rescue. ~John Eldrige

quote:

---

Originally posted by Angel:
Perhaps I should dissapear as well from the boards. Im just a 3d modler/skinner/2dart/novalist/ and so on. I dont really code. Though I can give lots of qustions relating to code and how it interacts with 3d/2d games and such.

---

Half of what makes a good game a good game is in the art .

quote:

---

(referring to debating)
what? are you crazy? nobody even hinted that Cobra!

---

I could never resist a good debate . Nobody had to tell me that.

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There are only 10 types of people - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wacko4X:
I dont really post very much (as you can see from my numbers ) But also I dont really know very much on a coding basis... I love to code, but I am so new at it. What I mean to say is "power to the geeks!" and all but by changing the website will you not allow new programmers like me to get help?

---

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I'm out of my mind... and into the mind of Christ -G.S. Megaphone

[This message has been edited by BlazeQ (edited April 29, 2003).]

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

Since I don't play video games, and a large part of this site seems to be geared towards making Christian video games, it looks like I'll be fading into the background now that we're changing over to straight coding as oppossed to Christian discussions. Rarely do I ever have a coding question to post here (it takes too long to get an answer). I do love to code though.

Option B looks like the best. 'C' would be bad, I'd really hate to see you go Krylar. You really are a great guy and a pretty strong Christian based on what I've seen from your posts. Option 'A' would be equally sad, because I think everyone would just leave without the coding aspect.

Just my $2E-2,
†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

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Ty
~ I live to give

quote:

---

Originally posted by Krylar:

b) Re-focus the site to be a DEVELOPMENT site. This means that I would pull only the development stuff to the main page and leave all the other stuff ("speaking in tongues", "pornography", etc.) to be in the forum. Fully accessible, but not front-page material. I would then make it waaaaaay easier to put up articles for people, etc. But they would be development artilces.

If I do this, though, that would mean that it would revert to what it was originally intended to be: A place where Christian developers could go to seek help with their projects from people that (hopefully) won't blast them just because they're Christians.

---

B) is the only viable option! I agree with the B) approach. What I would encourage is that non-coding threads be placed in the background, but that coding threads have the shortcut on the front page. And then, if a coding topic goes off course, setup a non-coding thread. Link to that.. and not allow non-coding posts to a coding thread. (Maybe at the top of the thread, have a spin-offs set of links so that people can follow a particular discussion that has moved elsewhere).

The areas where coding and Christianity collide (such as is violence appropriate in a Christian game, what is a Christian game, etc..) should continue in coding threads... or perhaps there should be three sections: coding in general, christian games, and christianity. The first two sections are available up front, but the other is in the forums.

My 2 cents..

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A must read: http://www.christiancoders.com/cgi-bin/articles/show_article.pl?f=christiancaleb01112002.html

All you newbie coders, don't worry! Part of the point of all this is to help each other as best we can. Can we cover every language? No. But we can help with what we do know, and a lot of coding paradigms transcend the actual language being used. So fear not!

Now, this is going to take some time to do. But I will give as much time as I can to make it happen as quickly as possible.

-Krylar

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

-Krylar

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There are only 10 types of people - those who understand binary, and those who don't.

So, I figured it'd be cool to have a place where Christians don't have to feel concerned about asking a coding question and such. And, in the process, maybe get to meet and work with others of like mind, or who are at least not opposed to people believing in Christ.

-Krylar

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Fight(as in overkill) the Good Fight of Faith...

Incidentally, I've just added a new showcase entry which I intended to do today, strange coincidence huh? Anyway, thanks for the great work you've put in so far, it's really appreciated (and thanks for the 2d Blitz game programming book as well!)

Games are great, and let's keep the game programming stuff, but can't we have web programming forums/articles, too? I know I've seen a few pop up, but the last time I "officially" asked, it wasn't much of a priority... but I think most coders are like me -- they like to code games, but they (like to) code other stuff, too.

-Ascent

Gimme a list of forum topics and I'll hook it up. BUT...try to keep it distinct and separate. I don't think anyone wants to wade through 30 different topic types

And, as for the tutorials/articles, I'd be more than happy to hook this up too (when I complete the articles creation section), but I'm not going to write them all! :P

-Krylar

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Luke 12:15 Then he said to them, "Watch out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions."

To be honest, I like plan (B) the best, I think by putting non-programming topics on the main page you are inviting debate on them and taking away from the main focus of the site. Having forums for debate is fine, so long as they are at the bottom of the forums list.

Personally, I learned a long time ago to stop debating or argueing beliefs. Its gets you nowhere, people with beliefs generally won't change because of what I have to say in a forum or news group so why "throw your pearls to pigs".

I think discussions on christianity as it relates to programming should be the focus here, moralilty of certain subject matter in games (the game "Grand THEFT Auto" comes to mind and glorifying crime) would make interesting discussion and fit in with the theme of the website. Articles about those types of games and the morality of them relates directly to a christian coder.

Just remember to stay focused on what the website is for, and perhaps a friendly reminder to the members from time to time wouldn't hurt.

Anyhow... nice site, I hope it stays up.

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Neil Roy

"O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear me, and keep all my commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!" - Deuteronomy 5:29

EDIT: oh yeah, and welcome to CCN

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

midnight-fire.org

[This message has been edited by InsanePoet (edited June 08, 2003).]

Just a small note to say thankyou for deciding to keep working on this site. I realise that it must take up an awful lot of time, but your work is appreciated. I originally came to this site from a BlitzBasic site, coincidentally at the same time that I was studying tha Alpha course. The Christian discussions on this site have been of great benefit to me.
I am nowhere near being a perfect Christian and I certainly can't code that well. The point is that you have a community here that is irresistable. I come to this site frequently( I hardly ever post)and enjoy my time here. It is good to hear that your site is going to become more focused on programming, I would just ask that you have a thought of the week or alternative based on Christianity on the homepage. That would mean that trainee programmers may learn about Christianity at the same time. If I can be of any assistance in your plans, don't hesitate to contact me.

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I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all around me seemed insufficient for the day. ABRAHAM LINCOLN

P.S. I live in orlando, Fl. Would love to meet any one of you who may live near me. Need to network, I pray that there'll be a awesome Christian game company out there for me when I graduate from my current
college(Full Sail Real World Education) I am a Game Design student there.
Thanks for the space
Alvin

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I have been driven many times to my knees by the overwhelming conviction that I had nowhere else to go. My own wisdom, and that of all around me seemed insufficient for the day. ABRAHAM LINCOLN

quote:

---

Originally posted by Krylar:
Actually, the real reason I made this site was becasue of GameDev.net. I was there a lot and I saw a Christian dude asking for help on game development. He got responses like "Pray about it!", "what? God can't help you?", etc. So I searched the boards for "Christian" and found that while some people were helpful, some were just not nice.

So, I figured it'd be cool to have a place where Christians don't have to feel concerned about asking a coding question and such. And, in the process, maybe get to meet and work with others of like mind, or who are at least not opposed to people believing in Christ.

-Krylar

---

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from your old mate
c h i e f y
global chiefy to yer old seafarin' seadog maties