General Discussions

Is there any perfect filter software solution? – sujithjm

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Hello,

I am posting this letter with deep sadness about the way this world is going. I am a born again christian Software Engineer from India. I am writing this because what happened last night.

Last night i was summoned to my friends house. He said he accidently discovered some porn downloaded in his computer. So we enquired and found his brother had did it.

The shocking thing was his brother was doing it for past 1 years , even with a software Net Nanny, already installed.

What i mean to say is we christians need to unite. NONE of the filter systems now are PERFECT. If you want to download porn or unwanted stuff, there are a lot of methods to by pass your filter.We need to make a software which is well ahead of the times. We need to make a filter software which is perfect, just like our Jesus is perfect.


Linus Trovalds done it in early 90's, Larry Page of Google.com done it in 1998. I can give you a lot of such examples. Then why not US?. Common , we can do all things through christ who strengthens us. Make a move NOW!!

Regards
sujith Mathew


Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
i have had a passion to make some software regarding filtering, sexual purity accountbility for sometime

it called purity pal.. but i never got the time to post about it here yet.. or to write up the specs..

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

InsanePoet

Member

Posts: 638
From: Vermont, USA
Registered: 03-12-2003
Would you like to know the perfect filter.
It is the holy spirit.

If you are worried about your bro getting a hold of porn, then he needs God, no matter if you deny him his sinful pleasures, he still lusts in his heart.

If your worried about your PC getting filled with the filth, well then, you can find a filter, or you can check through the HD yourself and delete them.

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"I find myself a desire which no experience in this world can satisfy, the most probable explanation is that I was made for another world!"
-C. S. Lewis

Believer

Member

Posts: 80
From: British Columbia, Canada
Registered: 01-30-2001
There is no such thing as perfect filtering. Never will be, frankly. But that doesn't mean that you can't come up with something quite good.

I created a filtering system for my ISP that I called "Web Guardian". It is used by hundreds of families right now and it works very well and is impossible for kids to circumvent since the filtering takes place on the ISP side, not on the home computer.

But it does suffer from one thing that all the others suffer from as well. It works great when it comes to recognising porn from textual contents, but it can't look at a photo for you (much less a movie or audio file) and tell you if it's suitable for kids.

While it may be possible to train a computer to recognise some porn to a certain degree (it should be easy to train a neural net to categorize them based on the presence and quantity of certain flesh tones, for example), it's not going to be very reliable or practical.

Ultimately the best thing a parent can do is to monitor their child's 'net use. That means not letting kids surf the net at all unless a parent is present.

Of course I'm talking about kids here (pre-teens). They older they are the harder it is to set restrictions like that. Try telling a teen that they can't access the 'net without Mommy present and see how well it goes :-)

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
wise words..

you can't use filtering to replace responsible parenting or such..

my idea of puritypal, is not just for children, but more for christians who struggle with sexaul tempation ( a large percentage of christian men)..

its aim is not just filtering as such, but also accountibility..

How i forsee it.. is that either with a central database, or peer to peer, lists of bad links and a filtering techniques will be shared/updated and those sites will be restricted (internal workings complicated)
you can also add sites yourself.. which will be propogated across the network.. (but lets say you are a smart alek and put www.yahoo.com as porn.. well others would flag it as false and it would leave the system)
but the filtering side is the small part of it..

the main thing is accountibility..
you will have others who are accountibility partners...
all your weburls get recorded, and forwarded to your accountibility people (and ones that are may contain certian words , or be on a 'danger' list will be highlighted... so its about accountibility.. if you go somewhere you shouldn't then your accountibility partners are goin to know..

and depending on the settings.. lets say there is a site that is blocked, but you actually need to go there.. its blocked wrong.. sometimes if you put it as an exception, you accountibility partner will be notified, other setsup may mean your accountibility partner needs to actually give you an exception, before the software lets you go there..
(different setups according to different people who have different struggles and needs)... having to have permission from your accountibility partner for everything that gets filtered wrong would be a big pain for a lot of people, however for people who are really struggling and can't fight the fight- its a necisary annoyance.. for others - no filtering but just accountibility is fine... knowing that if they do go where they shouldn't they are going to be held accountible to their accountibility partner is enough to keep from the secret sin, because it would no longer be secret..
for others all would be blocked other than 'whitelisted' url's and all other url's need to be approved by the accountibility partner

it changes it from a technical problem, to a human problem... and uses the technology to aid truths of accountibility..
there is a much limited system out there called covenanteyes at
http://www.covenanteyes.com/

if anybody here is strugglign with sexual tempation here are some good sites
http://www.settingcaptivesfree.com/
and
http://www.pureintimacy.org/

for many christian men, their struggle with sexual immorality of various forms is their secret sin, their hidden shame, pulling them down constantly.. I have a vision (much bigger than the software of puritypal) to see captives set free, for light to shine in the darkness, and for sexual purity amoungh christian men, who will stand with each other in accountibility urging each other on towards rightouesness..

believer: i'd be interested in your filtering techniques..

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Curry
Member

Posts: 134
From: USA
Registered: 11-21-2002
The neural net approach is interesting, that's something I had wondered about before, because it would be useful not just for discouraging intentional porn viewing, but also to block out unexpected risque images on otherwise normal webpages, or an unknown site, such as search results. It would also allow the convenience of no site restrictions, and if coupled with a textual filter that **** out inappropriate text, not bad for a family browser as part of a filtering system!

I agree with InsanePoet that the best way is spiritual, but a really good system would be neat all the same. ISP filters are great, but someone could just secretly get an extra dial-up account with another ISP, right? The accountability system is a very creative approach--never saw that before! But does it matter what ISP or browser software is used?

Although it puts the focus on social accountability which I think is really neat, but the technology also has to be pretty unbeatable as far as recording the URLs, otherwise there's no accountability--how can they ensure that it could monitor anything and couldn't be disabled?

Curry

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
I am really happy to know you guys have a passion for making a filter software. God has given me such a passion too. I was searhing for partners in Christ for doing that project, for the past 2 years.

If God has really given you and me such a passion, can we work out the specifications and move forward?.

What do you guys say?.

With warm regards
Sujith Mathew


Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
yep, as far as making sure this url recording software is not easily disabled.
i'd try hook as low level as possible ... (still programs like kazzaa etc could get bad stuff behind my its back - but an option could of the software could block ports used by such programs if needed)..

also for NT,win2k,XP the program would run as a service (with a name that is not easily associated with it) , and actually i'd have two services that would moniter each other, and so if one is stopped manually then thats going to show up in the accountibility log... so that only windows shutting down (which programs can detect if that is happening) will allow these 2 services to close down without putting a note in the log..
and as these are services they will start automatically with the computer..
and the accountibility log will need to be tamper proof until it gets transmitted to the accountibility partner.. so it will probably be an encripted file..

anyone have any other ideas to make it "near-impossible" for someone to disable this software..

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
I have a humble suggestion. It is not easy and worthwhile to spend much time on client side filtering. The best filtering will be server side.

Already there are programs which does this.
http://dansguardian.org is the best. Then there is another one called squidguard . I have an opinion. We must not try to reinvent the wheel.

Dansguardian is used by many ISP. But it not at all perfect. As Karl has pointed out, these filters cant filter Kaza or any p2p programs effectively.

I got an idea. It is which believer@christian.net has said.

While it may be possible to train a computer to recognise some porn to a certain degree (it should be easy to train a neural net to categorize them based on the presence and quantity of certain flesh tones, for example).
I would really appretiate that. I think this is a great idea.We can start do some R&D. But we need to use this as a supplement or an extension to dansguardian.org . As i told you we should not try to reinvent the wheel.

Anyone has idea?. Please feel free to talk about it here.

Regards
Sujith Mathew

[This message has been edited by sujithjm (edited November 26, 2002).]

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
for filtering, server side is best..
however though most of us are not ISP's nor do we have any say over what the isp does.. i want to make something that anybody with windows who uses the net, wether sattelite , dialup, isdn, radio or dsl etc they can use it
and accountibility is the primary feature, as well as peer to peer filtering..

thats the goals of puritypal..

other programs have their purpose and grand purposes they often are , but that's beyond the scope of what i personally plan to do..

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Thumps UP Karl!! .I have a suggestion. We can do two projects. One will be a client side(for which we will be using Karl's help a lot)and other will be server side. We will register as new project in sourceforge.

What is each of your opinions.

With Regards
Sujith Mathew

[This message has been edited by sujithjm (edited November 26, 2002).]

Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
I have a pozitive idea (for once). I know this may be offencive for some peeps but oh well. Why not build a filter that cuts out majer porn sites. They have plenty of filters out to take sites away with bad language and whatnots. Still no one seems to have mentioned my idea.

Look for and find sites like hookersRus, ladyinred, imcuteblabla, exc exc... make it a point to look for sites that hand out porn and block them off. Anything that is related to that site or has extentions to it such as hookersRus.com/free05 so on so forth.

Then again maybe im just beating a dead horse. Ive never used a porn filter. I probably never will. I plan on keeping my net connection password a secret from my kids. There will only be two ways they will get online. One will be with me sitting right next to them. Then the other will be when they are old enough to make their own choices.

Anyways thats my two bits.
~Angel~

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Hello Angel,

Your idea is good. But the commercial and free filters already use these technique. But people have found ways to easily mask them. For example a site called xyz.com can have contents of adult ones.

You can see an example http://sujithjm.tk , which is my personal domain, is redirecting to http://richsoft.com which is the company i work for.

With Regards
Sujith Mathew

Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
Then why not block off those sites as well? You could get people who use your sistom to help you find sites as well. For example lets say someone catches there kid at onefinelady.com and that isnt on your list for blocked sites. You could have a button that alows them to simply put in the sites address and it would be e-mailed to you. Then you could just add that to the list of updaites. Much like virus protecters. I dont know if they do that yet eather lol :P Im just trying to be suportive. Oh yah my dad said he knows someone who may want to found such an idea. He would exspect proffits though and to get a % out of it. Maybe not the best idea.

~Angel~

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
that's exactly what the peer to peer rating system of puritypal is for..
it allows people to add url's that are bad , and then everybody is blocked (of course there is a rating system etc, so troublemakers don't block normal sites)..

------------------
Karl /GODCENTRIC
Visionary Media
the creative submitted to the divine.
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
Karl and I have talked about this system a couple of times online (PurityPal) and I have some suggestions to add on top of some of the ideas floating around here:

A central PurityPal server will handle all the submitted sites, it also contains a list of sites that aren't porn sites so people can't submit sites that aren't. Hourly/Daily/Weekly upgrades to the blocker will be downloaded off the server (much like an auto-up dater to a virus scanner)
and inserted into the HOSTS blocker file which will redirect all web traffic to a website run by PurityPal which will offers encouragement and free courses on breaking your addiction. On top of that, all web traffic (located in the history of the web browser) is automatically downloaded
into a file and sent each X amount of days (can be scaled) and sent to your accountability partner via e-mail so they can keep an eye on you as well. History download is instant, so no one can clear it to cover their tracks.

For WinNT, 2k and XP machines, maybe the program could install a PurityPal user account and lock out the folder and files that is has access to, so uses canít just delete a few files to make it unworkable. For Win9x machines it would be a bit harder, but something could be worked out (maybe backup copies that automatically replace each other when deleted).

The download file names off of P2P programs such as Kazza, Limewire, etc. are pretty pacifically named and PurityPal could do a quick scan of any file created on the hard drive with a dictionary word list. If a file is found, itís name/destination info is copied and sent to your accountability partner, then the file is automatically deleted.

The program would have to run more or less like a process or service on your system, but more so in the background, so it couldnít be ctrl+alt+deleted and stopped. A double key system would be used to open PurityPal and stop/start/configure itís services, user opens program, types in username/key, username/key goes to server and asks for authorization, permission is granted/refused (depending on the setup, after so many tries the account is locked and the accountability partner has to start it again, maybe with a new password), another key is sent back to open the program where the user can then adjust the program. The server key is never kept on the system, so the addicted person(s) canít just type it in and have access. Any comments?

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.com

Angel

Member

Posts: 699
From: The Blissful State Of Me?
Registered: 05-21-2001
Like I said I dont know jack about this stuff! Heh oh well you people have fun anyways ^_^
sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Mack,

You got good knowledge of what is to be done. Could u write a requirements specification and TODO list.

Regards
Sujith Mathew

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
I'll give it a shot and post it up on here when done

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.com

chosenservant
Member

Posts: 16
From: Australia
Registered: 11-09-2002
how about having distributed servers, to lighten the load and provide stability? Probably needs some conflict resolution mechanisms.

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John 21:5-11

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Hello Karl,

I am waiting for you to provide the project details(technical) of PurityPal. I would like you to assign different modules for each of us who like to contribute.

Regards
Sujith Mathew

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
I tried giving it a shot and I ended up repeating my larger above message but in more of a directed point form. I'm not sure if that will really help you guys out, let me know.

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It's not seeing is believing, it's believing and then seeing.
http://www.twoguyssoftware.ca

sujithjm
Member

Posts: 14
From:
Registered: 11-23-2002
Hi guys,

We have started a new project at sourceforge.net code named puritypal. Thanks to the initiative of Klumsy(Karl).

http://sourceforge.net/projects/puritypal

Regards
Sujith Mathew

Ascent
Member

Posts: 64
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
I had a simliar but different idea for accountability partners...

It's a piece of software I was working on a while ago that would (for example) be on a child's computer and send a screenshot to the parent's computer either every so often, on request, or when certain words/phrases were in the titlebar of the current app (as in, the title of the html page if you have IE or netscape open)

This would also be great for accountability partners. The screenshot is small enough so that if you're working on proprietary code, for example, you can't see what the other person is doing, but it's pretty obvious as to what's on their screen, at least in general terms.

It's written in VB 6... if someone's interested, I may pick it back up or open it up to let other people work on it. I just don't have time right now.

-Ascent