|
Dustin Hubbard Junior Member Posts: 6 From: El Reno, OK , USA Registered: 11-13-2002 |
Hi, I'm brand new here but not new to games. I've been playing games since I could hold a controller and have always planned to create games someday. Well last May before I attended E3 I went out and formed an LLC to publish games under. Unfortunately none of my projects have panned out thus far as my programmers always flake out. I'd always had a nudging in the back of my heart to make christian games but I ignored it. Lately it's become quite big and tonight as I look over all the webpages and current stuff that is out there I must say.. That Christian Gaming is in sad shape. Almost everything i've seen is terrible or outdated or not fun. I believe we need to start producing quality games, which isn't hard. We also need to break free of trying to have no-violence and such... Look if we're going to reach people in the gaming market in this day and age we're going to have to give them what they want. That doesn't mean hookers and blood and gore galore but by carefully creating christian games that are entertaining and interesting but also can pull people to Christ. The current game industry is sickening, with games such as Grand Theft Auto and BMXXX out there things are only going to get worse. We as Christian game developers must combat this! But we can't do it by making boring and cheesy games, we have to get serious and try harder and maybe even step on a few toes. I'm passionate about this and really want to get Christian games to become a popular genre and not just sitting on a dusty shelf in Mardels. We're going to have to expand, get gutsy and try some new things. And above all improve! Only a couple of games I saw were even decent, and that's sad. We've got to give it our best! I'm only 19 and know little about the game industry but I want to get a team of dedicated individuals together and create great christian games! If it's money we're going to end up needing we can always make games that aren't based on christian themes but fun simple games that aren't too violent akin to old classics like Bubble Bobble, Pac-Man, Super Mario Bros. etc. Basically we need to get together and improve. Through Christ we can do this! If you're interested in forming a group to create quality Christian games then please contact me or reply to the posting. Thank you! Sorry if this is rambly, it's late and i'm tired =) And it took me forever to even find a christian game community to post at. - Dustin Hubbard |
SpiffyDinosaur Member Posts: 29 From: MO, USA Registered: 09-28-2002 |
Forgive me for being ignorant, but, what is E3? |
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
quote: Electronic Entertainment Expo in LA, where a mass group of game developers come together to show off there current work. ------------------ |
|
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
Hey Dustin, I agree that we must strive to create quality Christian games. However alot of us don't have the resources backing us up to create high graphicaly quality games. A team of dedicated individuals takes alot of money, game development prices can range from several thousand to several million. God willing you can overcome this (for example; Two Guys Software, which currently finished thier FPS Eternal War: Shadows of Light did it with no money). I think the idea of starting small and working your way up is the best thing, starting off with a huge project with very limited resources will just frustrate you. Huge doesn't always equal the best, which I also agree with your point that someone could create a small, impacting game Super Mario Bros. style and be alot of fun. I think that should be one of our main focuses as Christian developers is not only to provide non-Bible thumping, Christian pacific games, but also make them a blast to play. Thanks for your comments Dustin! and Welcome to the CCN! ------------------ |
|
Dustin Hubbard Junior Member Posts: 6 From: El Reno, OK , USA Registered: 11-13-2002 |
Ah I totally agree. I don't expect us to start out making something comparable to ps2,gamecube, and xbox games. I do however think we have the capability to make something along the quality lines of a 2d snes-early psx style games. 3d is possible but really it can't be done well without spending money, however 2d is quite easy in both those regards escpecially with today's equipment. Like you said we need to get our start first making simple games, even some without christian themes (but at the same time make sure they won't reflect negatively on us in the future). I'm sure we could somehow make a professional looking 2d RPG comparable to some SNES games etc. Or not even limit ourselves to 2d, what about making an action adventure game similar to Castlevania Symphony of the Night for PSX. Or an even better idea to get in to today's markets with this technology is the Gameboy Advance and the cell phone market. Both, especially the Cellphone market can be done with small teams and little costs. We just need to get a few games out there, to generate revenue to fund larger projects and we need to do it fast. The Gameboy Advance and Cellphone markets won't be around forever without advancing to higher development costs so we should try to get some good quality games out as soon as possible, christian themed or not. Plus that would help us establish a name. Just some ideas. - Dustin Hubbard |
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
Hey Dustin, Yes I totally agree. Hey, would you be interested in working on a project. It's called Infinitum INFINITUM: Alius Quo Terra(Stranger To Earth) What is Infinitum?: Infinitum is mostly a strategic RPG using the torque engine. Infinitum is a Christian game. It is not overtly Christian (as in, it doesn’t *directly* allude to things), but all things are symbolic and have Biblical meaning. Story and Symbolism: The prologue introduces the game w/ the character being rescued from destruction. He did not know that he was headed towards destruction, but he was saved by the sacrifice of the King Vestar and beyond his control, he was saved from damnation. The story progresses as the character faces various trials and matures spiritually. Certain places will symbolize certain evils. Some are simple, some more complex. The sin or evil is symbolized by a place and is portrayed by what the place is (terrain etc). The consequences of that particular sin/evil are embodied in the form of various monsters and creatures, these monsters and creatures are somehow a display of that particular evil. Infinitum is still young and any support is welcome. Btw - Infinitum is not a non-violent game (no profuse gore) but there is combat. ------------------ |
|
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
I agree w/ you totally. God has given me a vision for the Christian gaming Industry, and he is allowing me to fulfill that vision in His name. ------------------ |
|
Dustin Hubbard Junior Member Posts: 6 From: El Reno, OK , USA Registered: 11-13-2002 |
Sure I may be interested, ICQ me or we can meet in the chat tomorrow night. Thanks! - Dustin Hubbard |
|
holy_fire Member Posts: 40 From: Hamilton, Scotland Registered: 08-20-2001 |
see this is where i thik we go all wrong and also why i dont like ppl knocking the standard of Christian games out just now. Your totally right we really need to pull out something of good quality BUT a 2d rpg that ranks ok compared to a SNES game is NOT quality. I believe we are setting the bar too low we are looking at out circumstance and if we do so then i can tell u right now God is not in control of that project. To pull something of it takes time (something God has wads of, we however seem to differ) and time is money (something we don't have but really should). Speaking practically if u want something the masses will like im afraid it'll take eye candy and plenty of it. The demand for visually stunning work is increasing (just look at doom3 unreal2 or even the dated max payne) . In short I believe we REALLY need to look to God to take the helm, if we do so everything will come together, otherwise we will end up with a 2d rpg that looks like an old snes game. Ian out |
TallBill Member Posts: 298 From: St. Louis, MO Registered: 11-22-2002 |
I think that in order for a Christian game to have evil in it, that evil must be portrayed as just what it is: Absolutely, horrifyingly evil, harmful, destructive, and really just plain stupid things to do. It must have real life consequences, not like in the popular games of today, where you blow people away with no consequence to yourself. Things like, if you pick up a gun you get blown away. If you don't show courage in the face of evil you suffer for it. If you have sex outside of marriage you get diseases that can't be cured, just like in real life. Women and girls get pregnant. And when they have an abortion they suffer from it---just like in real life. In other words, present evil just as what it really is, not as the world would have it thought to be. One of the finest qualities of "The Lord of the Rings" is that evil shown in it is real and undeniable as evil. People who use magic actually pay the price for having done so. Real evil. Consequences. Reality. There is even a part where the Fellowship is entering into Lothlorien and some of them are uttering stories and suspicions about those who live there when the leader, Aragorn, rebukes them telling them that the only evil there is what they bring with them; and isn't that how Christians frequently get treated by the world at large? I'm not saying that you have to do another Lord of the Rings (I doubt that there are any Tolkeins lurking here anyway :-) ), but we could use it for a guideline, couldn't we? ------------------ "...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High." |
|
Dustin Hubbard Junior Member Posts: 6 From: El Reno, OK , USA Registered: 11-13-2002 |
I understand what you're saying, i'm just trying to take the practical approach with what we could definately do with our current talents and such. You'd be surpised at how some 2d games and such are still making money in niche markets. 2D is definately not dead. Money can be made from it, sure not millions perhaps but enough to help us fund larger projects. Rome wasn't built in a day folks. And if you think God is calling you to make a game comparable to today's standards, power to you and I'll do what I can to help. I'm just trying to go with the idea I've got in my head I believe would work, it would just take some time as all good things do. Is this me not relying on God and not myself? No. I will still rely on God and I see nothing wrong with my approach. - Dustin Hubbard |
|
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
1. Rome was a pagan city 2. If you want to use city examples, look at Nehimiah's wall. 3. It's not what *we* can or can't do, it's about what *God* can do. I don't care how much skills/equipment/funds/man power etc. you got, if you do not have faith, you will DO NOTHING. We don't have time to dally with cheapo games. Don't you get it, ------------------ |
|
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
Why do you doubt there are tolkiens lurking about here? ------------------ |
|
TallBill Member Posts: 298 From: St. Louis, MO Registered: 11-22-2002 |
quote: Because a talent like that would be few and very far between. :-)
"...prayer itself is an art which only the Holy Ghost can teach us. He is the giver of all prayer. Pray for prayer---pray till you can pray; pray to be helped to pray, and give not up praying because you cannot pray, for it is when you think you cannot pray that you are most praying. Sometimes when you have no sort of comfort in your supplications, it is then that your heart---all broken and cast down---is really wrestling and truly prevailing with the Most High." [This message has been edited by TallBill (edited November 27, 2002).] |
Angel Member Posts: 699 From: The Blissful State Of Me? Registered: 05-21-2001 |
I feel that I have that sort of tallent in creating a world with text. My brother thinks my book is way better then the lord of the rings. ^_^ still its yet to be seen if the mass public agrees with my wife's and my brother's views. Bah I still need to hear back from the publishers :P Anyways im just saying that real tellent could be hidden in this place. You just have to brush away some of the dust. ~Angel~ [This message has been edited by Angel (edited November 27, 2002).] |
Klumsy Administrator Posts: 1061 From: Port Angeles, WA, USA Registered: 10-25-2001 |
quote: there is much truth in that, we need to have faith, and let God use us bigger than we could imagine.. ------------------ |
|
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
God still gives out the gift of writing. And, yes, klumsy, be wise when doing things, but be careful that you are not relying on man's wisdom. ------------------ |
|
Dustin Hubbard Junior Member Posts: 6 From: El Reno, OK , USA Registered: 11-13-2002 |
I'm not relying on "Man's Wisdom" God blesses people with wisdom and I'm just using it. Rushing blindly into a huge project is foolish, and saying you'll make it because you have faith in God probably isn't going to be good enough. You have to build a proper foundation! It took Noah 100 years to build the ark, he made moses or whoever wander around for 40 years in the wilderness because they weren't ready to do his will. So what makes us better than them that we can just rush in and make a monumental game? We have to prove ourselves to God first. He needs to forge and sharpen us before we get out into the big stuff as it's much more complicated and tough than I think you're thinking. Look, your passion for God is great, you just need to focus it and use it wisely. On another point, What's Rome being Pagan city have to do with my point anyway? I feel like you're having a righteouss attitude about the deal. I admit I don't know much about the Bible, and I don't think it's necessary to. Just doing the right things makes God happy, he'll love me the same whether I know it or not. I have the faith and the wisdom. I just need others to see it the same way and to help. If you don't want to and want to go about it another way that's fine, and I'll root for you too. But don't criticize my methods and say I have no faith because that self-righteouss attitude sickens me and it's a major part of what's wrong with 90% of my fellow Christians out there. Go with God, - Dustin Hubbard |
|
InsanePoet Member Posts: 638 From: Vermont, USA Registered: 03-12-2003 |
1. All I said was that pointing to Rome was a bad example, and I pointed to Nehimiah. 2. Listen, there are plenty of instances in the Bible when men of God when forth and did His will in which He enpowered him to do so. Look at David, little boy, kills 9 foot giant. He did not go to warrior camp to prove himself to God. 3. I am saying that we don't have time to dally around and make cheapo games. The time is now, we must move, or be brushed aside. 4. Personally, God has called me to the Christain gaming field. I am the least and most unlikely choice. I do not boast in my own skills, put in the power of God. 5. Yes, it still requires work, but there are those who have the skills needed and I have faith that those men will come when they are needed, not before. ------------------ |
|
Curry Member Posts: 134 From: USA Registered: 11-21-2002 |
About this topic, I agree a bit with both sides. It is really good to have something cutting-edge. That would be wonderful. But if there is an issue or message that people need to get from a game in a limited time, or for a programmer who doesn't have or want to budget the time, skills, or resources to make every product revolutionary in terms of technology, it doesn't hurt to use what you have and get more positive software out there to influence society. Plus, there is not just one genre. 3-D is the cutting edge in technology, but a lot of 3-D games are not as fun on gameplay (although they are more mesmerizing visually) than classic-style 2D games. So, I would suggest since we have people that favor going all-out for cutting the edge off the cutting-edge, and people that favor doing more with what they have and focusing on content and gameplay over the newest technology, it sure wouldn't hurt to have both! There is also the chance to do other types of software, besides games, that will promote Christianity or something good. I look at software as a type of medium, just like TV, books, radio, and publications are. There is a potential for using this medium for good purposes, and there is a chance to get a message through here, because the people who want power for other agendas that generally run opposite to Christian ideas focus on controlling the obvious TV and publications media. The world really is in an information war, and the spiritual war is involved in it. What people know and believe is so important in what they will support and how they will act, and as software developers, we have the chance to use this medium to help out. I think that's why we are all here, but still it doesn't hurt to look at it from a communications viewpoint and see that it's more than just making Christian games and good games and alternatives to bad games, but also it's really a part of the struggle to influence mass media, which has so much control over society. Software and games especially appeal to kids and college aged people, and they need a lot of information and guidance that they aren't getting. So I would encourage people, look at the big picture and the messages and information that the world needs. If you would consider doing an arcade or platform style game, you also could consider to build a message or information in it that people need to hear and might not hear somewhere else. There are so many issues and problems in the world, I think there are no shortages of opportunites for something like that. Curry |
|
holy_fire Member Posts: 40 From: Hamilton, Scotland Registered: 08-20-2001 |
Are we forgeting one vital point ? Who is our audiance, certianly not God he knows all about the game, he inspired it. Ur audience is the public. Now u may be able to show GOD your practise rounds with the tools u have at the moment, but dont expect for a second the masses will just as impressed --- We are in this industry to touch ultimatly lost souls, and show them the gospel in a new light. We are not here to show God how good we are, he already knows. just some thoughts |
|
Curry Member Posts: 134 From: USA Registered: 11-21-2002 |
Well, yeah, but what I mean is that making a game that's not 3-D or not with the most advanced engine doesn't necessarily mean sub-standard. There are other genres. There are other audiences besides hard-core gamers. Personally, I like 2-D games too and my dream would be to have a good game for the value software market, whether it is 2-D or 3-D. Working with what you have doesn't always mean inferior. If people remember computers like Commodore, Atari, C-64, and Spectrum which got gaming starting off, the graphics were very lousy by today's standards at first glance, but if you study the games and listen to interviews of the programmers, you will find that many of the games were extremely well-designed down to the smallest considerations of gameplay, and very creative. They were fun, interesting, some were offbeat--as far as I've seen, I'd say there was a lot more variety of gameplay than you see nowadays, because creativity was the first emphasis and technology (on very limited and pretty static hardware and OS) was second. (Gameboy would be a more current example, I suppose.) That's a pretty extreme example comparing their graphics to today's graphics, but the point is, your game isn't just good or bad depending on the engine you use, but on the creativity and attention to content, gameplay, and art. You can make a really bad game with the best engine! And you can make a really good game with one of the readily-available tools that are affordable for the average person. If you combine both the creativity and the technology, that's even better, but imagining that one has to get or make an engine beyond the standards of what most people and companies are using right now in order to make a good game is unrealistic. People have made great games with all kinds of IDEs and engines. In fact, the more variety of games and software that you learn about and fool around with and appreciate, the more potential you have for making more and better games and incorporating the lessons you learned, even if you are using a next-generation engine. Curry |
|
holy_fire Member Posts: 40 From: Hamilton, Scotland Registered: 08-20-2001 |
Im not saying we can't use 2d graphic BUT if you do every aspect of your game must shine perfection. You forget again who ur audience is. There is a small group of people looking for the retro quilities of 2d gaming but this is a small group, a minority.It's fair enough if you say you want to make a game to cater for that group (or the value market) but don't expect waves of change in the gaming industry to come along.The gaming world has evolved since the days of spectrum remember the public are looking to have every sence tantilised ncluding eye candy, as much as u'd hate to admit it thats was the MASSES want and they are the ones that will be buying the game Sure practice your skills and improve your work but personally I would do so underground, my skills will sharpen under Gods instruction so when I show them what I can do poeple can see the change and be impressed by a proffesional project. We need patiance peeps, your right we need time to let God mould us. But I'd rather not show the world the "work in progress" snapshot of the jar rather show them the finished result of the most beautiful jar of clay. ian |
|
Mack Administrator Posts: 2779 From: Registered: 01-20-2001 |
But these things I plan won't happen right away. Slowly, steadily, surely, the time approaches when the vision will be fulfilled. If it seems slow, do not despair, for these things will surely come to pass. Just be patient! They will not be overdue a single day! - Habakkuk 2:1,3 ------------------ |
