For our projects to be successfull (meaning getting shelf space),God must give it His blessing. He will only bless that which blesses Him What I mean is this; the Lord wants Christian games. He wants His games to be the best. He wants His people to seek Him out for ideas.

I am currently developing a Christian game, but the entire concept and idea came through prayer. We must spend time listening to what He wants, not what we want. Yes, He will use your talents, but let Him controll it. With our current game developement I spend much time in the Word and in prayer asking the Lord for direction. Many times I spend days working on something, only to have the Lord say "Nope, that's not going fly - change it"

Final words, "Seek the Lord, and He will build it." (that's not a bible quote - that's just mine.

Luke 12:31 "But seek his kingdom, and these things will be given to you as well"

Matthew 6:33

These quotes help?

By all means write Christian games if you want to - the whole Christian industry is a huge cash cow in the deep south, I am told. But don't fool yourselves that you're working for the Gospel. The people who play your games will already be converted to the Gospel of their choice and they will play your game because Daddy won't let them have Quake III because it's 'of the devil'.

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[This message has been edited by SaintA2J (edited April 16, 2007).]

For the third time, and therefore cut down severly, you have NOT been 'called' to write video games, that is just plain silly. For starters, no-one who is not already 'christian' is going to play them.

Beyond that, I went on to say you need to apply yourself to the Gospel in how you deal with people personally. You'll do a lot more for the Gospel like that than you will in writing video games.

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Originally posted by meanmaninoz:
Have I been moderated out of existance, or does this forum software just plain not work ?

For the third time, and therefore cut down severly, you have NOT been 'called' to write video games, that is just plain silly. For starters, no-one who is not already 'christian' is going to play them.

Beyond that, I went on to say you need to apply yourself to the Gospel in how you deal with people personally. You'll do a lot more for the Gospel like that than you will in writing video games.

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Lets all bow down and worship MeanMan. He is right and the world is wrong. Only through following MeanMan's beliefs and living by his every word can we achieve salvation!

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Regards,

Brice

Lost Reflections -- When your life comes crumbling down around you, can you count on the one person who has never been there for you? Lost Reflections is a heart warming story of personal redemption and second chances.

Firstly, mean man, ur using generalizations, which 95% of the time indicates your over reacting. Bear with me please. I think that in most cases you are correct. most people who are not saved will not be encouraged to play a christian game. On the other hand, what makes unsaved people listens to christians at all? I say that any medium can be used, but that alot of the time, they'll (the unsaved) avoid what they term "religious games". So if your making games for evangilism, you better pray long and hard, to make sure.

I have another solution, wich you may, or may not like. I offer it, because it is what i see God wanting me to do. I am called to make money to support the gospel. One way is to make moprally good games, that sell well, and have christian ettics inside. That way, i am making money, AND influencing unbelivers, and inspiring belivers. Dont tell me what people play and watch dosnt influence them. An example: how many of us watched star wars, and spent time playing jedi and sith? And if you play a shooter long enough you start pointiing at things and yelling bang. I'm saying that what you feed on (metally and spiritually) becomes your ethics, and your way of thinking. Something to consider.

So IMO your both correct partially. It all comes down to what God tells you, not what everyone else says, and sometimes God tells us to do extrem things, and things out of the ordinary.

Thats my thinking, and that and 50 cents can get you coffee some places ^_^
Veritech

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I'm saying that what you feed on (metally and spiritually) becomes your ethics, and your way of thinking. Something to consider.

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I disagree. I don't think that playing Counterstrike made me want to shoot people any more than playing Pacman made me want to run in a maze and eat M&M's. I think it's important to consider what you let into your mind, of course, but I don't think that playing morally right games will make them a better person, let alone save them ( salvation not being by works ). I don't think there is anything *wrong* with writing games that don't glorify violence, or even in writing games that have a religious theme. But in the Bible, I see people going out and telling other people about the Gospel in person, not painting signs or creating objects that will hopefully do the job for them. People respond to personal witness more than anything else, and I would suggest they are less likely to respond to a video game than they are to music, and they respond to music close to never. That is true if the message is good or bad. People listen to stuff that reflects what they believe, or they listen to stuff they like and ignore the bits in the lyric they do not agree with.

My main point is that God does not call people to write video games. He may give you the desire of your heart, but that is different to suggest He has a vested interest. He has an interest in us doing EVERYTHING as if it was for Him, and in reflecting His glory in the way we present ourselves to others ALL the time. That is how souls are saved, not through this game or that song, in the overwhelming number of cases.

Ask the people in your church how many came because of someone they knew, and how many started looking for a church as a result of a product they bought. That is my point, nothing more.

I disagree that God cant tell you to make a game. He could tell you to make a game to make money. Or he could tell you to make a game, to get someone saved. The main thing is that God can tell you to do many things, and not always what you expect. But i agree God telling you to do something for a time, is not the same as a life-long call, such as God calling Paul to be an Apostle. That was life-Long. But God telling him to go to efesis was just instructions. I dont think game creation can be a call in itself, there must be a call before there are instructions, such as "talk to that guy over there" or "go to france, and preach in the eifel tower" or "make an evangilistic vidio game". You need to discover your call first, everything else is secondary.

Veritech

[This message has been edited by Veritech (edited August 11, 2002).]

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Originally posted by meanmaninoz:
I disagree. I don't think that playing Counterstrike made me want to shoot people any more than playing Pacman made me want to run in a maze and eat M&M's. I think it's important to consider what you let into your mind, of course, but I don't think that playing morally right games will make them a better person, let alone save them ( salvation not being by works ). I don't think there is anything *wrong* with writing games that don't glorify violence, or even in writing games that have a religious theme. But in the Bible, I see people going out and telling other people about the Gospel in person, not painting signs or creating objects that will hopefully do the job for them. People respond to personal witness more than anything else, and I would suggest they are less likely to respond to a video game than they are to music, and they respond to music close to never. That is true if the message is good or bad. People listen to stuff that reflects what they believe, or they listen to stuff they like and ignore the bits in the lyric they do not agree with.

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Hmm.

I agree that you wouldn't neccessarily shoot people after playing counterstrike or eat M&M's from playing PAC-MAN.

I disagree that there's no effect at all. At the very least, I usually end up with that "zoned out" feeling after I play a game for a long time . . .

In any case, making Christian games is still a noble goal. I'd prefer we play something that glorifies God over something that glorifies death, destruction, immoral behavior, etc.

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My main point is that God does not call people to write video games.

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God will call people to do whatever he wants them to do. I'm not stupid enough to place limits on God.

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He may give you the desire of your heart, but that is different to suggest He has a vested interest. He has an interest in us doing EVERYTHING as if it was for Him, and in reflecting His glory in the way we present ourselves to others ALL the time. That is how souls are saved, not through this game or that song, in the overwhelming number of cases.

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Souls are saved through hearing the Word and believing. This is an act of the Holy Spirit, not some magical force in your voice or your actions.

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Ask the people in your church how many came because of someone they knew, and how many started looking for a church as a result of a product they bought. That is my point, nothing more.

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The author of http://www.christian-thinktank.com says a little about trying to fit God into your own personal expectations.
http://www.christian-thinktank.com/lesxx.html#les10

Is making Christian Games my calling? I don't know. But I do know that God will work through me.

Proverbs 16.

My interpersonal skills are pretty weak anyway . . .

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Souls are saved through hearing the Word and believing. This is an act of the Holy Spirit, not some magical force in your voice or your actions.

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And how shall they hear if no-one tells them ? That's a paraphrase of scripture.

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Is making Christian Games my calling? I don't know. But I do know that God will work through me.

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Why will God work through your games ? If I'm a tax agent, does He need to work through my preperation of taxes ? You're right - salvation is the work of the Holy Spirit, but it is ordained through the foolishness of preaching that people hear the Gospel. My sole point is you need to do that yourself. There is no point fooling yourself that a game will do it.

In case you haven't noticed, games are becoming more and more story-based. Games like Final Fantasy not only have "fun factor" but also emotional impact. When Aeris died in Final Fantasy VII, I was shocked. In that same game, I felt a lot of emotions and was taken on a very excellent journey. And as many of the later Final Fantasy games, their own religious views were expressed very openly and effectively. Why can't you do the same sort of thing for Jesus?

I agree that there must still be a personal witness. I'm not trying to say that I'll just make Christian video games and forget about my personal witness. But that's just one way of reaching people. My mother was NOT reached by anyone's personal witness, mostly because all of the Christians she knew weren't really Christians at all. It took a push from the Holy Spirit to get her to start reading the Bible on her own without being spoon-fed by anyone else.

And that's the power of God's Word. His Word will not return to him void, and if we lift Jesus up, HE will draw all men unto himself. So therefore, if I lift him up in my games, why shouldn't he still draw men to him?

Of course, I'm sure you'll come back with Scripture after Scripture to combat this. And then I could come back with a few more, and the cycle would be endless. Nothing you can say will deter me from what I view as my calling, and nothing will deter you from coming against it. And that's my final word on the matter.

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[This message has been edited by SaintA2J (edited April 16, 2007).]

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Originally posted by SaintA2J:
Well, MeanMan, you've made it obvious that you're a divider and not a uniter.

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This is what happens when people follow manmade doctrines instead of following Christ.

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Regards,

Brice

Lost Reflections -- When your life comes crumbling down around you, can you count on the one person who has never been there for you? Lost Reflections is a heart warming story of personal redemption and second chances.

quote:

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Originally posted by SaintA2J:
In case you haven't noticed, games are becoming more and more story-based. Games like Final Fantasy not only have "fun factor" but also emotional impact. When Aeris died in Final Fantasy VII, I was shocked. In that same game, I felt a lot of emotions and was taken on a very excellent journey. And as many of the later Final Fantasy games, their own religious views were expressed very openly and effectively. Why can't you do the same sort of thing for Jesus?

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In the case of many Secular RPGs they give there "world view". They describe what morals they think are right, as well as what God is, or isnt, ECt. However, i have not seen a game made souly for the convertion of others to there religion. Frankly, i do not think that such a direct aproch as that would work. But i think it is an excelent idea to give our world view, and make the church a prevelant group in the game.

If you actually have the character a chritian things in the game become dificult. How much faith does the character have? what is God telling them to do? How can you make a digital quite time? I think that you cant make the supernatural fit into the natural of a game, it is too limiting to God. much better if the character meets Christians, sees miracles even, but does not talk about if they themselves are saved. Unless someone can think of a way to simplify God, which i cant.

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Originally posted by SaintA2J:
In case you haven't noticed, games are becoming more and more story-based. Games like Final Fantasy

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YAY, love story based games. The other prevelent rpg now is the mass multiplayer,which would be even easyier to witness with, or develope a possitive, Godly worldview. the whole basis of a mmo is to explore a different world, pretty thourghly. Therefore, fill the world with hints, aspects of God, our moral beliefs, we can at least get people thinking.

Veritech

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"If you even breathe a word of what you've heard here, I hope Gandalf will turn you into a spotted toad, and fill the garden full of grass-snakes" - "Fellowship of the Ring" by JRR Tolkien (p91)

But then again, Jesus told "parables" (or stories) and he himself said that not everyone would understand what he was talking about. Some of the disciples didn't even understand. So I think it all comes down to praying and hearing what God wants you to do as far as presenting a message.

We also have to remember that Christians play games too, so there should also be games for edification rather than soul-winning. I think they have to be approached very differently. In the case of a "soul-winning" game, you have to kind of meet the player where they're at. Not that you're going to have a game that appeals to everyone, of course, but know who you're targeting too. As for edification, the same rule applies, only in a different way. Some Christians may not find offense by things that other Christians deem sacreligious. And I personally think that's the harder tightrope to walk rather than appealing to the secular players.

All that to say this: I think a game's story will ultimately be the most important aspect of Christian games. But on the opposite side of the coin, the game itself has to be good for anyone to even remotely care about the story.

As for massively multiplayer games being an outreach tool, I think the game worlds themselves need to become more dynamic than they currently are. For the most part, the worlds are just static. There's nothing political going on, no world-changing events, nothing that really makes you want to wonder about the world you're playing in. But, that only leaves the field wide open for Christian games to fill in that gap!

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[This message has been edited by SaintA2J (edited April 16, 2007).]

[This message has been edited by Nfektious (edited November 26, 2002).]

You know yet another way to look at it is that those who are already saved are likely better off playing your Christian-Doom (that sounds wrong..hehehe) game than playing Doom.

Also, I'm sure all the occultists and satantanists aren't smacking developers for making games with demonic themes.

Next we'll need to ask why people bother to make Christian rock or heavy metal...nobody who isn't saved is going to listen to it, right? If the answer is "no" to that, then why does it differ in games? I don't see it does. I wasn't a Christian and yet Stryper was awesome. Now I am a Christian and Stryper is still awesome.

My 2 cents,

-Krylar

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Well, MeanMan, you've made it obvious that you're a divider and not a uniter. And I know you'll come back with Scriptures to defend your viewpoints.

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Like 'I came not to bring peace, but a sword' ? :P Seriously, unity at any cost is the biggest disaster to ever happen to the church. It involves throwing the Gospel out the window. Unity happens through unity with God, not by watering down our beliefs until we come to common ground with all who profess Christ.

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Everyone can do that. But you're never going to change your mind, and likewise neither am I. Just because I am called to do something you don't understand doesn't mean you should berate it as something less than worthy of the blessings of God.

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Saying you are called to something is Pente waffle. That does not equate to God not blessing it, I thought I said that. He will give you the desire of your heart, assuming you're a Christian.

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Originally posted by SaintA2J:
Well, MeanMan, you've made it obvious that you're a divider and not a uniter.

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This is what happens when people follow manmade doctrines instead of following Christ.

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Yes, I noticed Jesus commitment to unity at any cost when He cleared the temple, or spoke to the Pharisees.

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But then again, Jesus told "parables" (or stories) and he himself said that not everyone would understand what he was talking about.

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Actually it says He told parables SO THAT no-one would understand Him, in fulfillment of prophecy.

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You know yet another way to look at it is that those who are already saved are likely better off playing your Christian-Doom (that sounds wrong..hehehe) game than playing Doom.

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I agree, and that is what I said to start with - it's Christian's who will play these games.

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Next we'll need to ask why people bother to make Christian rock or heavy metal...nobody who isn't saved is going to listen to it, right?

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I remember seeing Larry Norman ( not that I endorse his views in general ), and he said from the stage that he was sick of people bringing their unsaved friends to his concerts, bringing them to him afterwards and essentially saying 'save this person'. The Christian rock industry makes a lot of money and turns a group of people into heros in the eyes of some, and the point is again missed. Personal witness is what is required.

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I wasn't a Christian and yet Stryper was awesome. Now I am a Christian and Stryper is still awesome.

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Have you ever heard Messiah Prophet ? They were unreal, much better than the Yellow and Black attack. But I'll give it to Stryper, they were out there, playing on a level field, as a band, not as a Christian band that was sold only in Christian stores. They didn't have much of a message, but they took the right approach in presenting what they did have.

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Like 'I came not to bring peace, but a sword' ?

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Yep, that's exactly what I figured you'd come back with!

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[This message has been edited by SaintA2J (edited April 16, 2007).]

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God bless and keep you!
-Ginger

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Yep, that's exactly what I figured you'd come back with!

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I guess irony is lost on you ? I was making the statement in light of what you said, I would not have said it otherwise.

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I have never seen him issue a positive remark to ANYTHING on this or any other forum.

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Look harder then, or don't comment.

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I am called to make games to glorify God AND teach other Christians about the word. We will prove it to them in time with the help of God, Jesus, and the Holy Spirit. Do not worry, have faith and stay focused on the positive. It WILL happen.

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Can anyone say groupthink ? I really don't get why the Bible does not matter to you people, or that you feel the need to claim divine inspiration to your desire to create video games. I really don't get it.

Is prayer to be a one way dialog?

I can understand your concern for those who say that everything they think is from God, and sometimes some very unGodlike things they say they heard from God, and i can see your experience in your father influences this as well..

ALso i would also agree or say that we should be careful before just claiming this or that that God told us, not to put words in his mouth, We should have a healthy fear of God, yet to say that we FEEL God's is leading us in this direction or that.. and actually when we are sure we heard from God, then its right to in Faith declare that.. i mean if you recieve a vision, dream from God - you'd also be hearing from God.. do you think that God doesn't give people dreams and visions, that He only did that sort of thing in the olden days?

if being a Christian is just about finding a ministry that is compatible with God and the Bible, rather than a specific calling of God on our lives (which of course must be compatible with God and the Bible).. then you wouldn't end up with a body, because what if everybody wanted to be a hand? you might end up with a body with no feet.. But if God created you as a Liver, as you pray to God for His will in your life, He'll direct you towards being a good liver.. Why can't He give somebody the Vision to make Computer games for His Glory (as part of the individuals balanced spiritual and temporal life).. God's bigger than the box of both of our flawed human understandings..

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

[This message has been edited by klumsy (edited August 12, 2002).]

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meanman,

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I really wish this forum would let me change my nick...

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i find it difficult to understand how you can believe in tounges, in (which i do, though i don't believe it essential for salvation, but anyway),

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As an aside, what is essential for salvation ? Surely faith isn't ? It gets listed as a gift with the same footing as tongues in 1 Cor 12.

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how you can believe in that, and also in prophesy, prayer..
but not believe that God can talk to people, that God can have plans for peoples lives, and that He can divinely inspire people , giving them light to their path, directly their ways, according to His plan for their life, which he created them uniquely to fufill..
Is prayer to be a one way dialog?

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No, but the Bible promises that God will bless what we put our hand to, not that He saves this person because the church needs a pastor, and that person so some Christian games come into existance. I have repeatedly said God will bless what His people set their hand to AND give them the desire of their hearts. My problem is with the idea that God has a *need* for christain games, or, as has been said here before, that the devil is actively trying to thwart them. ( if he can or not is of course another matter ).

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I can understand your concern for those who say that everything they think is from God, and sometimes some very unGodlike things they say they heard from God, and i can see your experience in your father influences this as well..

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*grin* you remembered.....

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ALso i would also agree or say that we should be careful before just claiming this or that that God told us, not to put words in his mouth, We should have a healthy fear of God, yet to say that we FEEL God's is leading us in this direction or that.. and actually when we are sure we heard from God, then its right to in Faith declare that.. i mean if you recieve a vision, dream from God - you'd also be hearing from God.. do you think that God doesn't give people dreams and visions, that He only did that sort of thing in the olden days?

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Honestly ? I have experienced these things first hand, and because I don't think they are something that happens to everyone in the same way, I don't talk about them because they are important to *me*, but not to the Gospel at large.

To clarify what I am trying to say again, I am suggesting that the writing of games is very unlikely to save souls, although it may well provide a more edifying alternative ( in my experience usually at the cost of high quality, but that is to be expected ) to people who already believe the ideals these games promote, and most especially I want to say that if you're a Christian, writing games does not let you off the hook in terms of presenting the Gospel in person from day to day, although it may limit the opportunity if you end up writing them for a job.

so here is some more words

if being a Christian is just about finding a ministry that is compatible with God and the Bible, rather than a specific calling of God on our lives (which of course must be compatible with God and the Bible).. then you wouldn't end up with a body, because what if everybody wanted to be a hand? you might end up with a body with no feet.. But if God created you as a Liver, as you pray to God for His will in your life, He'll direct you towards being a good liver.. Why can't He give somebody the Vision to make Computer games for His Glory (as part of the individuals balanced spiritual and temporal life).. God's bigger than the box of both of our flawed human understandings..

Karl

b.t.w
what would you want your nickname to be
i am sure kryler can go into the DB and change it manually for you..
so go ahead and choose a new nick..

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

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if being a Christian is just about finding a ministry that is compatible with God and the Bible, rather than a specific calling of God on our lives (which of course must be compatible with God and the Bible).. then you wouldn't end up with a body, because what if everybody wanted to be a hand?

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You see, I don't think it works like that. I happen to think that we all have the same ministry, which is to serve God. Things like being a pastor or a houseleader, they are a job someone gets because the church needs someone, they are not something that is a specific persons ministry in the sense that person a at the point of being saved is destined to be a pastor in any sense except that God knows the end from the beginning.

The eye/hand/etc. analogy is about use of different gifts that all Christians have, in the context of a specific meeting. The gifts you speak of here, teachers, pastors, etc. are listed elsewhere, and are gifts from God to the church. I have no doubt that God raises people up and blesses them, but as I say, that is a reflection of the churches needs, and not the 'calling ' of the individual.

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you might end up with a body with no feet.. But if God created you as a Liver, as you pray to God for His will in your life, He'll direct you towards being a good liver.. Why can't He give somebody the Vision to make Computer games for His Glory (as part of the individuals balanced spiritual and temporal life).. God's bigger than the box of both of our flawed human understandings..

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Largely because it's only the Christian industry and those who follow it who think that video games are a great way to save souls. I think I asked a while ago on this thread who was saved through personal witness and who was saved through buying something. I dunno if the board swallowed my post, or if no-one replied. I guess it's an obviously rhetorical question, in that the answer is obvious.

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b.t.w
what would you want your nickname to be
i am sure kryler can go into the DB and change it manually for you..
so go ahead and choose a new nick..

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Is christian taken ? ( it's my name as well, you see... )

Christian

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Honestly ? I have experienced these things first hand, and because I don't think they are something that happens to everyone in the same way, I don't talk about them because they are important to *me*, but not to the Gospel at large.

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To clarify what I am trying to say again, I am suggesting that the writing of games is very unlikely to save souls, although it may well provide a more edifying alternative ( in my experience usually at the cost of high quality, but that is to be expected ) to people who already believe the ideals these games promote, and most especially I want to say that if you're a Christian, writing games does not let you off the hook in terms of presenting the Gospel in person from day to day, although it may limit the opportunity if you end up writing them for a job.

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You see, I don't think it works like that. I happen to think that we all have the same ministry, which is to serve God. Things like being a pastor or a houseleader, they are a job someone gets because the church needs someone, they are not something that is a specific persons ministry in the sense that person a at the point of being saved is destined to be a pastor in any sense except that God knows the end from the beginning.

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The eye/hand/etc. analogy is about use of different gifts that all Christians have, in the context of a specific meeting. The gifts you speak of here, teachers, pastors, etc. are listed elsewhere, and are gifts from God to the church. I have no doubt that God raises people up and blesses them, but as I say, that is a reflection of the churches needs, and not the 'calling ' of the individual.

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Largely because it's only the Christian industry and those who follow it who think that video games are a great way to save souls. I think I asked a while ago on this thread who was saved through personal witness and who was saved through buying something. I dunno if the board swallowed my post, or if no-one replied. I guess it's an obviously rhetorical question, in that the answer is obvious.

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imagine Christian kids, who through their life share christ, share this cool christian game thats lots of fun with their friends, these friends love the game, hear the message of Christ over and over as they play.. and it sparks an interest, an interest that leads them onto the road of finding Christ..

media is effective
do you know how many people have been saved in the world from watching the Jesus Video?

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Is christian taken ? ( it's my name as well, you see... )

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

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so is that a conflict of personal experience and offical church doctrine?

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Do you think I'd go to a church that would have me reject something God did in my life ? No, it's common sense. If I start telling people I've had a vision then people will feel they need to experience the same thing, because I have. I believe others in the church have experienced things that I have not, and vice versa. Things that God has done to show me things, and does to show other people things that are wonderful, and also personal.

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in that case, secular games and the interest was a common ground for relationship, and from that relationship (and enviroment) they were touched by the message, the conviction and also the love of Christ.

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That is exactly the sort of thing I am endorsing, and you too, obviously. I must say that you've said largely what I was trying to, but probably more eloquently and also with a standing in this place that means people will be more likely to agree with you.

Sometimes God calls us to plant seeds and sometimes he calls us to be harvesters (or reapers, or whatever you want to call them). And I see no reason why he wouldn't use them to at least plant seeds. And if he really wants to, he could use them to harvest. It's all up to God and the individual who plays the games.

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[This message has been edited by SaintA2J (edited April 17, 2007).]