General Discussions

Where do I begin? – jesse

jesse

Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Lansing, NC USA
Registered: 07-02-2002
Hello all!
I am about to post the _ultimate_ newbie guy question, so please bear with me.
The only programming I have ever done is 4dos batch. (If you can really call that programming. I wrote whole security and text editor programs with it, so I'd say yes.)
I really want to create games for christians, but I don't know any current languages. So here comes that question I warned you about.
Where should I begin?
Any thoughts on a 'better' language, how one goes about learning said language (on a budget of, um, zip,), and any other free advice?

-Jesse

Mack

Administrator

Posts: 2779
From:
Registered: 01-20-2001
Welcome to the CCN! Sorry I have no idea where you should start off. It depends on what code you like after you check them all out. I know Krylar is going to say "Check out Blitz Basic!" so I'll beat him to it:

http://www.blitzcoder.com/

Krylar

Administrator

Posts: 502
From: MD, USA
Registered: 03-05-2001
check out blitz...oh, Mack beat me to it

If you do use Blitz, I can help you to understand stuff. Check out the articles/tutorials on the BlitzCoder site to get a feel for how to do stuff and then just mess around with the demo of Blitz.

Are you looking to do 2D or 3D stuff?

Welcome aboard!

-Krylar

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InsanePoet

Member

Posts: 638
From: Vermont, USA
Registered: 03-12-2003
Just began myself, here's what I did. Visual Basic, easy syntax, and you can get the 'striped down' version for $100.

By a VB Intro book or take a VB intro class.
Then get more advanced books
and always practice, experiment
and remember, no one can teach you how to be a GOOD progammer, you have to think like a programmer for that. Once you figure out how to think like a programmer, you can 'figure out' lots of things without a book.

OK, 'nuff said

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Victory Infinitum

InsanePoet

Member

Posts: 638
From: Vermont, USA
Registered: 03-12-2003
Oh, BTW, Visual basic, isn't exactly good for games, so don't plan on doing anything in 3D, but it's a good starter language.

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Victory Infinitum

gingerellies

Member

Posts: 50
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 05-28-2002
I recommend C++, but I'm kindof new as well, but many platforms cater to the C++ language. There are usually plugins or the like, so you can program with C++. Also, my school told me and I have found it to be true, if you can learn C++ you can program in any other language with very little transition. I could help you with C++ questions as well. However, it does cost, but I'm sure you could get a copy somewhere out there, as long as you don't publish any games with it before you pay for it. Good luck!

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God bless and keep you!
-Ginger

Revelator

Member

Posts: 226
From: Sydney, NSW, Australia
Registered: 03-22-2001
I think all of you should check out version 4.2 of gamemaker:
http://www.cs.uu.nl/people/markov/gmaker/

I have used blitz basic and game maker is easier to use than blitz and can do everything blitz does.

They are both 2d engines, but gamemaker is free, being constantly upgraded, is an object oriented language and is pretty fast.
It allows you to use scripts which give you control over all the objects you create.

The only advantage blitz has is that it has a bit more speed. But on the super fast machines around now, speed is not an issue.

If you want to do 2d game programing and have no real experience in other languages, you would be mad not to use gamemaker.

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www.revelatorgames.com

jesse

Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Lansing, NC USA
Registered: 07-02-2002
Thank you folks for all your help. Since I'm running a Linux machine, it's lookin like C++ will be my best bet. Kinda where I figgered I'd want to start. Anybody know any good soft intro to C++ on web? I have a feew textbooks handed down from friends, but they're a little confusing for various reasons? -Again, Jess
Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
ok since you are running linux you must at least have some decent general computer knowledge that will lead you onto programming knowledge

you'll probably use GCC compiler...
there are plenty of C++ coding resources and tutorials on the net
probably start out with some basic console applications and learn c++
then maybe SDL library for graphics to get some basic 2d graphics stuff up and running...

www.flipcode.com is a good game programming resource site..

so you don't run PC stuff at all?

Karl

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Karl /GODCENTRIC
Husband of my amazing wife Aleshia
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz

jesse

Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Lansing, NC USA
Registered: 07-02-2002
Well, other than games, I really didn't do much w/ Windows. And then when I became a Christian (recently), I looked back at all the games I had (270 +) and realized that most of 'em weren't all I had thought them to be.
I use my box at present for the following-

Basic 'net and email
Word proc
Basic graphic work (via the Gimp, which is great, and FREE!)
A few basic games (Chromium BSU, if you've never seen it, rocks.)

I don't own a TV, but I do have a brooktree-based tv in card,
so the DVD player and VCR aare hooked up to PC.
Still haven't gotten my scanner working yet, but that's the only hardware I've had issue with. (Anybody had any experience w/ Linux & scanners, since I mentioned it?)
I went to Unix because I realized that the version of Windows I was running was pirated, and that's just not cool. So I downloaded FreeBSD and gave it a whack. Since then I've wandered over to Mandrake, purely out of curiousity. So faar, I really enjoy. My wife is also running Linux on her machine, and we share our dial up connection.

So to finally get around to my point, Linux is very easy. You can run Windows apps with a prog called WINE, but I haven't figgered it out yet. I have gotten a few programs to run with it, and those that do run fine. The ones I haven't are due to my lack of knowledge.

I'd recommend Linux or any other Unix for that matter to anybody who knows even a little about PCs.
-Jess

cyberseth

Junior Member

Posts: 6
From: Doncaster, UK
Registered: 07-05-2002
Have you thought about getting multiple OS's? As long as you have
sufficient HD space you can get the best of both sides by installing
UNIX and Windows on the same system. It'll also be effective if you
want to test whether your game will work and be fast enough on both
platforms.
falkone
Junior Member

Posts: 9
From:
Registered: 07-06-2002
Well, i started off programming in good old dos QBasic. It's always been a favorite of mine because, even though you can't do 16-bit color graphics or advanced 3d in realtime, you can learn the basics of game programming (such as AI, game logic, and design). There are countless resources on the internet concerning qbasic programming.
C/C++ would be a good choice for advanced programming. Especially if you're going to be using you're own routines (as opposed to using a permade API). To use graphics in C/C++ in dos you must resort to assembler to set the video mode and to manually access the video memory. 3D programming API's such as OpenGL and DirectX are great and relatively easy to learn (I think OpenGL is a bit easier to learn plus it's available on almost every platform under the sun).
I've had some experience with game programming languages such as DarkBasic and BlitzBasic. I haven't tried BlitzBasic much but DarkBasic has been too slow and clunky for large scale games (try writing a decent first person engine using ONLY "goto... return" calls.. *shudder*). I haven't tried blitzbasic yet but the demos look pretty. Those are both good languages (like Qbasic) for learning how to do game programming, while you should rely on c/c++ if you are going to be doign any large scale commercial development.
One more note: Visual Basic is capable of DirectX (and OpenGL) now that microsoft has released type libraries for it along with DirectX7, so that may be another choice for learning game programming (it's certainly easier than win32 c/c++ programming)
One more one more note: do not use the windows GDI for graphics programming.. it's slower than.. well, i can't think of anything but it's really slow and not suited for game programming
Thanks for listening to my ranting

-Falkone
jesse

Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Lansing, NC USA
Registered: 07-02-2002
Responding to both posts here.

Funny you should mention dual boot!
Right after my last post, my modem blew out (I live WAY out in the boonies, and sometimes the phone wiring overamps like crazy).
So, the new modem wouldn't respond to all my careful poking and
prodding w/ Linux. So out of sheer frustration (or impatience, if you
listen to my wife,) I dug out my old copy of Win98. So here I am, and soon I'll load Linux (It'll use Windows' unused space instead of having to
repartition, which is nice.) I've only dual booted once before, but you're
absolutly right, cyberseth, it is handy.
Falkone, QBasic? See, I've been laboring under the impression that QBassic couldn't do anything. Hmm. I'll def. check into that as well. My headway in C is going VERY slowly, so it'll be worth a shot. I'll let you guys know how I'm progressing. Thnx, -Jess


falkone
Junior Member

Posts: 9
From:
Registered: 07-06-2002
lol, yeah, qbasic is quite limited.. especially when compared to current graphic standards. But it's still capable of making games.. why, back in the day (a few years ago.. i'm not that old), tons of games (and quite a few commercial ones) were out for qbasic.. not that they could touch c/c++ games but they were still entertaining... it's just a nice learning language..
D-SIPL

Moderator

Posts: 1345
From: Maesteg, Wales
Registered: 07-21-2001
There still definately is something special about older games. They seem more fun to play. Maybe it's because thats what i grew up with, but with a lot of new games, they get boring really quick, whereas older games, i used to play for hours everyday, and still could.

just my two cents!

--D-SIPL

gingerellies

Member

Posts: 50
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 05-28-2002
I think you are right D-SIPL, older games were better for playing over and over again, till you could play in your sleep (many I still can play in my sleep). That is what Monkeystone is all about... going back to the simpler more fun games of long ago. That is one reason I came to work here. We use C/C++ to do most of our programming, sometimes John has to through some assembly in there. I can't tell you the name of the book I learned from off the top of my head, but I will find out and let you know Jesse. I liked it a lot, the guy who wrote it had strange humor, but I liked it. I would read it on my days off from school laying by the pool. It was a really good read and I understood a lot of it the first time around without having to do the programs at the end of the chapter. But, writing those programs helps to drill it on in, so I recommend it. I'll get back to you when I get the name of that book.

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God bless and keep you!
-Ginger

gingerellies

Member

Posts: 50
From: Orlando, FL
Registered: 05-28-2002
It is called "C++ Primer Plus". It is really great! Good luck and if you have any questions, I'll be glad to help!

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God bless and keep you!
-Ginger

CobraA1

Member

Posts: 926
From: MN
Registered: 02-19-2001
I'm partial to Java myself. In fact, I'm working on a project right now, but since I'm not sure if/when I'll finish (not to mention how I'm going to sell it ), I've been keeping it under wraps.

Java is easier than C/C++ in many respects, and will work in both Windows and Linux. Java also makes it easy to use good object-oriented programming.

Java has been called slow, but JIT compiling has taken care of that for the most part (I've heard claims that it's close to C/C++ in speed, but I wouldn't count on it). Make sure you have the latest compiler from Microsoft or Sun Microsystems, and you'll have JIT compiling. It's faster than GameMaker for sure - I've created complex worlds, only to find a miserable framerate in GameMaker.

One of the best things going for Java is that it has a lot of built-in libraries that are normally seperate in other languages, so if you're programming in 2D, you pretty much have everything you need once you get the J2SE SDK.

Gamemaker is a good introduction to game programming; it uses a visual interface that seperates you somewhat from the code, so rapid development of simple games is very easy.

Java also has Java3D, which I'm trying to figure out right now. I've also heard of GL4Java.

BTW, if you use Windows and Java, take a look at BlueJ http://www.bluej.org/ . It's designed for colleges for teaching Java, but I think with a little work on the editor (which has recently been released to open source), it could be useful for real programming (I think it already is, but some might disagree). The way it allows you to visualize and organize the classes onscreen is defnitely a plus.

QBasic (or it's compiler cousin, QuickBasic) is nice, but limited. I used to know it very well. It's DOS, so you can't make sellable games, but it's excellent for experimenting.