General Discussions

Encouragement Needed – Gift

Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
Hi, guys, I've been trying to learn the game programming thing and I'm a bit overwhelmed. It seems to me that to develop a game, it might take about 17 man-years of work. I've been trying to learn Java and UML. I got to UI in Java and croaked. I know that a lot of people speed things up by reusing a game engine or other packages. But that is just a small part. I really have a heart for a Christian "Civilization" type game, spreading the gospel throughout the world until some victory condition is met. I'm a very good numerical analysis type guy so I could build the finite state machine and the math to update the state of the game. But anything else and forget it. No art, no sound, no UI, no nothing. So, how do you guys do it??

Love in Christ
Gift

[This message has been edited by Gift (edited November 12, 2001).]

rowanseymour

Member

Posts: 284
From: Belfast, Northern Ireland
Registered: 02-10-2001
Hey Gift

What you need is "Java Games Programming for Dummies", don't be insulted by the title, Dummies books rock! Java is an excellent language to learn programming in, and it is easy to go from Java to C++. And don't make a Christian RPG your first project - completing a few small projects is much more educational (and much more fun ) than trying to write a full blown games engine and failing. I've learnt that from experience

And of course pray loads because there isn't anything God doesn't know about programming

Good luck!

Rowan / GODCENTRIC

Krylar

Administrator

Posts: 502
From: MD, USA
Registered: 03-05-2001
Hiya,

If you wanna learn game programming from scratch, I would suggest working with Blitz Basic. It's got BASIC-like commands, fully DirectX 7.1+ complient, and VERY fast. It's also reasonably priced and you don't have to give royalties.

Has both 2D and 3D support in the coding. Has multiplayer (TCP via DirectPlay or UDP over Winsock) components. Has full input controls (via DirectInput). Midi, Wav, Mp3 sound controls with multiple channels for overlapping. Pixel perfect collision detections. I could go on and on, but the point is that you don't have to go through all of the fundamental "how do I put up a pixel, image, picture, get input, check for collisions, make sounds, play music, code multiplayer tools, etc..." because it's all incorporated into the language. You just worry about coding YOUR game.

The coolest part though is that it's a REAL programming language, not just some pre-packaged engine. You have to code your game pieces, your have to code your physics, etc. It's not a simple point-and-click game system, but a fully operational language. I run another site dedicated to it called BlitzCoder ( http://www.blitzcoder.com ). Check out the Showcase there to see all of the stuff people have done.

As for art/sound/etc: I use MilkShape3D to model stuff and then I screen capture and place the image into a 2D editor that I then touch up. I, like you, am not a full-fledged artist, so using shapes to put things together makes it FAR easier for me.

I buy the sounds off of websites that offer special effects sounds to people for purchase.

Anyways, all the best with your endeavor!

-Krylar
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[This message has been edited by Krylar (edited November 13, 2001).]

Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
That makes me feel a bit better. I have bought some books Game Architecture and Design and Black Art of Java Game Programming. The Blitz Basic sounds very interesting. I'll have to check it out more I know that there are a lot of lessons on this website. Well how much time will it take to master blitz and make a game??

Love in Christ
Gift

Krylar

Administrator

Posts: 502
From: MD, USA
Registered: 03-05-2001
Mastering Blitz should only take a couple of months if you have some programming experience. It's not that complicated at all. Mastering game development is an entirely different story. That takes quite a while.

The best thing to do is to start small and develop clones of games already made. I would HIGHLY suggest that you make the following games in this order:

1) Space Invaders
2) Defender
3) Asteroids
4) Tetris
5) PacMan

Yes, this will take time but it's imperative to help you understand game development fundamentals. Each of those games has already been developed, so you don't have to think too much about design. Each of those games has a unique programming challenge that builds your abilities. Here they are broken down a bit:

1) Space Invaders: Left/Right movement only. No background. Bullets only fly in one direction.

2) Defender: Left/Right Movement with scrolling. Bullets either move left or right, no other direction. Mostly empty background, but has some tiles along the edges.

3) Asteroids: 360-degree movement, 360-degree bullet directions, random asteroids (in size, speed, and direction), minimal space-physics, mostly black background (add in stars). I wrote "Rocktoids" which isn't amazing, but it has full Blitz Basic source code included with it...and it's pretty detailed in the commenting.

4) Tetris: Spinning and connecting oddly shaped objects, handling countdowns, and handling pattern matching.

5) PacMan: Maze creation, moving around in a maze, hitting walls, minor monster AI, levels.

I know you want to just develop your game right out the door, but if you try to do that you're just going to get frustrated. You need to start with crawling, then walk, then start running. You'll learn a TON on the way and will be thankful you did because when you do start your game, it'll be all that much better for it.

If you really apply yourself, you should be able to start successfully coding on your game within the year. That's not as long as you may think

All the best!

-Krylar

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Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
Thats Cool, I feel much better now.

Love in Christ
Gift

InTheLight
Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Amarillo, TX USA
Registered: 11-11-2001
Hey Gift,

I am also interested in making RTS and RPG type Christian games. If you are interested in possibly trying to put something together let me know. I am a professional Java programmer for an insurance claims automation company. I have done graphics programming in Java (the beginnings of a side-scroller), but my masterpiece is an isometric 3/4 view tiling engine written in VC++ with DirectX 6 with intelligent pathfinding and animation support. My intent was to build an RTS engine, but it is not quite complete. Lately I've been playing around with DirectX 8...primarily Direct3D. I would certainly be open to discussing some ideas with anyone interested.

graceworks
Member

Posts: 455
From: Corvallis, Oregon, USA
Registered: 03-03-2001
quote:
Originally posted by Gift:
I really have a heart for a Christian "Civilization" type game, spreading the gospel throughout the world until some victory condition is met

Hi Gift.

Welcome aboard.

I have some game ideas for a "sim-Mission" type game (missionaries). I'd be glad to share them with you.

We'll be praying for wisdom and guidance of your endeavors.

-Tim

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Called by God. The passioned plea of a father. The journey awaits at Jarod Journey's.

Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
That's great guys. I'm convinced that these projects can't be a one man show. The simple stuff can be done with one person, like I have done a space invader type game. I would love to help out, we are all one body each part with its function, and also have some great ideas, but Christ is the head. I would love to share all my thoughts but have to run off to work. Chow.

Love in Christ
Gift

Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
Hello guys,
I was recently trying to compile some thoughts about a game. And I thought, "how could people on a video game team ever get past, say a difference in opinion?" If a group is making a game that might take some stance on a somewhat disputed thing, teaching, or heresy. How could two people agree on something? These things make up the distinctions between denominations. I can just see a problem with an internet group who after working on a project for several years has a problem with factions centered on a teaching. I'm somewhat against factions but, of course "I have all of the right and perfect doctrine" or at least I like to think so. A person has to believe they are right, or they should repent, or accept not knowing and take a view of "the answer is unknowable". So, what do you guys think. Will there ever be two in total agreement?
Lord have Mercy
Love in Christ
Gift
InTheLight
Junior Member

Posts: 7
From: Amarillo, TX USA
Registered: 11-11-2001
I think one day in Heaven we will all realize that no one had perfect theology. We are all going to miss the mark on some doctrines. The fact is that the Bible is not always clear on all things. We just have to pray and do the best we can with what we are given.
Imsold4christ

Member

Posts: 305
From: Gresham, OR, US
Registered: 01-20-2001
Chances are, yes, it's completely possible for two to be in total agreement. Now three people, that may be more tricky... Lol, just kidding. Yeah, probably even three people.

And yes, prayer is one of the best ways to tell if your doctrine is correct. What better person to ask questions about the rules than the ruler? Of course, prayer requires that you actually take the time to listen for His answer...

†Caleb†

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"True friendship is not characterized by the absence of conflict, but by the ability to resolve conflict."

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
The main thing is realising our place in the body, and heeding the scriptures about not argueing aout pointless things.. I think if you center on Jesus Christ, just continue to Center of Jesus Christ, on the elementary truths of his Gospel and be united in that, this can we worked out.. Also serving and loving each other in humility, and not defending a stance for your own sake, but if you feel you need to say something that is very contradictory or possibly argumentive, being very prayerful about it and not just sticking up for something because its what you think..
if you know what i mean..
We all have gaps in our doctrine and stuff that is probably wrong.. the question is , are we focusing on Jesus Christ mostly and his pure and simple GOspel, and are we walking with him..

for game stuff however you are ussually going to try to put something in that is contriversial, because you are going to try to do something (if the games idea is for evangelism) that will capture the attention of the secular... in missionary jargon, find an eye opener... and eye opener by defination is something that the non-christian can relate to that can point them towards christ...
and many christians will argue about the validity of the eye opener...

Oh well
God loves us all..
and he has perfect will's for all our lives..
and for some, he has willed us to make games..
and for some he has willed us to put down our computer for a day or two and seek his face ....

Karl Prosser

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Karl Prosser
Karl / GODCENTRIC
Klumsy / Surprise ! Productions.
ME / Redeemed by the Living God :)
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz
May God Bless you, he sure does me.

Imsold4christ

Member

Posts: 305
From: Gresham, OR, US
Registered: 01-20-2001
Puff Mummy
Junior Member

Posts: 8
From: Auckland, New Zealand
Registered: 11-25-2001
I really like the idea of a strategy game like civilisation. FPS's are all fine and dandy but I also love games that make you think alot as opposed to just having fast reflexes.

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--< In the world, not of it >--
email: epicsolutions@xtra.co.nz
icq: 5564549

Klumsy

Administrator

Posts: 1061
From: Port Angeles, WA, USA
Registered: 10-25-2001
and a civilisation style of game is one that one can get christian content in much cleverly and effectively than a lot of FPS

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Karl Prosser
Karl / GODCENTRIC
Klumsy / Surprise ! Productions.
ME / Redeemed by the Living God :)
Klumsy@xtra.co.nz
May God Bless you, he sure does me.

Gift
Member

Posts: 85
From: Palatine, IL, USA
Registered: 02-11-2001
Yeah,
I was thinking that the Civ type game with a strong RPG aspect, where the player could have many PC (player character) saints of different types and they could grow and develop as the game progresses. The player could then deal with Christian issues on the PC level as well as a more regional level. The PC's also effect the region they are in. As time progresses the ministries available also change. From writing letters and preaching, teaching, prophecy, & healing. To satellites, radio, collages, and much much more.

The main teaching instrument of the game would be a large hypertext document that explains all of the concepts behind Christian ministry. I see this game as more of a discipleship tool than evangelism but I sure it would save souls too. I believe that this game would appeal to people ages 10-30 and the main emphasis being the critical 12 year old group. Also translation into other languages for maximum world wide impact.

I just don't see something like this with good quality being done without a full time game development staff of 9 and about two years, graphics, art, sound, coding, etc.. The Lord can raise the $900k to do it, I just don't know how. Say, would any of you guys be millionaires??

Love in Christ
Gift